The new chain hasn't even started yet and it feels like it is already compromised by this move. I'm not on the list myself, but I feel for the ones that are as many of them just expressed a neutral view on the entire hostile takeover. Even @aggroed commented on the MSP Waves meetings that The Korean Community was voting on both sides to make sure nobody could make a move and saw that as a good thing.
I get how the Ninja Mined Stake is Removed from the new hard fork, but starting the new chain forking out individual accounts is just wrong especially since it's done based on rules that are by no means consistent and include people that did nothing wrong. How you you start a new chain claiming to fight centralization making an extremely centralized move like this?
I just don't understand how any of the witnesses can support this and as much as I like the idea behind the Hive fork, this move completely kills all my enthusiasm and feel they burried Hive before it even started.
Regular Accounts on the Hive Airdrop Exclusion List (Link)
I couldn't agree more. I voted for Sun's so called puppet accounts in protest since I didn't agree with his funds being frozen. You can talk yourself into justifying that however you like but in my book it was just plain wrong and I used my democratic right has given in consensus to make that point.
I supported quite a few of the witnesses in the top 20 before but also removed votes from those running 0.22.444 as I thought that was childish and not helping the situation. The whole thing has just deteriorated and I had removed votes from the Tron Witness accounts to support just @roelandp, @themarkymark, @steempress, @yabapmatt, @ausbitbank,@drakos and @aggroed. In an attempt to get things resolved. I was hoping during this time a reasonable solution could be reached with Sun but that now has just deteriorated.
I also agreed that suspending power whilst hopefully the two sides came to a suitable solution was a good thing to start off with which is why I also supported that action. So in that regard I could see what @proxy.token was trying to achieve
It's their new chain and they can do what they want but to exclude voices you don't agree with seems to be a big step back in my opinion and something I couldn't possibly support so I am quite happy to be excluded. I too had hopes something good would come out of all of this but I cannot see Hive succeeding, there will be no investor confidence. @Exyle was correct when he criticised the initial fork of Sun's stake and now we see the same situation happening all over again.
I could have accepted the Stinc stake being removed, since that was supposed to be the real problem, however it appears to go further than that and the rift in the community seems to be bigger than ever.
I wish Hive well and hope it succeeds but the move to exclude accounts you don't agree with doesn't seem the best way to start a chain. Crypto is a small place at the moment and it seems crazy to start a chain with a bad legacy whilst removing an existing one.
very nice to see that I am on exclusion list when in fact I push my Thai community to go on Hive so would I told them to stay on fucking Tron? Seems like both side are BS I have told my people to not vote for those thugs and do it also and this shit happen. Look at my last community post to know that I stand for hive but maybe I better stop it all because I will never stay on Steemtron
Exactly, they accomplish way more negatives with this exclusion list. I just can't understand the decision.
Its controversial.
But there is a possibility to get the tokens trough the HIVE DAO later.
Anyone that is excluded can make a proposal and receive them back.
I have no idea but just to see this to happen don't give me any trust in those people from both sides so I will stop it all and my community will stay on steem if we don't translate to them. I create this community nearly 3 years ago and am a curie curator and I stand for HIve but really they show me that both sides are the same BS
Weeelll not exactly the same ... but we are all humans with pro and cons.
Overall we should look to improve the system (not just changing players) so what happen on both sides should not happen again in the future.
More decentralization = less witness votes per stake, and maybe have more witnesses to prevent actions like freezing.
Even with that, it's still a highly centralized move I just can't understand. It would have been so much better to just fork the ninja-mined stake out and leave it at that. Clean and simple. Now it's just a move to also fork the Korean community out which will create a major backlash even if it's possible for the casualties to still get their hive tokens.
I had no idea, my votes to the 'invading' witnesses where a frustration against all people messaging me to do something where at the time I had no idea what the backstory was about. Anyway, if the proposal is judged fair I don't mind filing one.
Could you, however, tell me (if you know) whether we still get an account with a nullified balance in the beginning? Just so we can keep using the dapps that are making a fast transition to the new blockchain? Thanks for bothering to keep us informed
Yes I think the accounts will be there but with no stake.
Thanks for keeping me in the loop
I'm sorry to hear you got on the list. I assume the account will still be created and you can log in with your existing keys. I do hope you are still going to be able to get your hive tokens which should be possible.
Thanks for your sympathy I appreciate it. We'll find out, though I might need to think about bringing something to the table for the community/communities.
Anyway, I learned my lesson. Treat discord spam the same way as mails from Nigerian princes that are leaving you part of their fortune. Ignore it :p
Why am I on the exclusion list?
Basically the community was split on the entire soft-fork followed by the Justin Sun Hostile takeover. Especially the Korean community who supported Justin Sun and voted on both the sockpuppet accounts and the regular witnesses, so none of the sides could take control. Many others also didn't want to pick a side as the evidence of the ninja-mines stake promises was very underwhelming. The ones creating the hive hardfork made a decision to also fork out everyone that voted on the sockpuppet accounts. In a way it's their chain and they can do whatever they want, it just happens to go completely against decentralization what they claim they stand for.
But I never supported Justin's Hostile takeover, I literally saw that a bunch of posts saying to vote for witnesses. I voted, turns out I voted for Justin's, then literally the next day I went and changed my votes and even powered up my steem to help out.
That's exactly my point, the entire exclusion list makes no sense and affects many people who have nothing do do with it all aside from the fact that it starts the chain off with an extreme form of censorship/centralization.
I see where you are coming from but I am leaning towards the other side.
I do agree with the blacklist. Some of the people on the blacklist have had a change of heart, true, but a bunch of them took advantage of the situation to hold leverage over the entire chain and demand unreasonable changes, especially most in the SCT community.
My thinking is that, what is the point of airdropping those accounts on Hive while both chains have separate a vision.
Why do they want Hive tokens? They could still stick on the Steem chain and actualize their short power downs and subscriptions based economy once Justin Sun takes over. That is if he has any plans of staying on Steem.
This was an ideological fork. Let's not pretend otherwise.
I agree that those who are creating Hive can do whatever they want, I just think it's an extremely bad move of which the negatives over time will be way higher compared to the positives in the short run. Hive now starts off as a chain who forked out individual accounts, many of which just took a neutral stand since the evidence of promises surrounding the ninja mined stake was by no means strong enough to initiate the soft fork freezing the Justin Sun stake. (See this video from @exyle which changed my view on it)
It will be interesting how everything turns out.
Actually, that is a nice video from exyle. I get what he saying about a precedent has been set.
Let me however offer a different persepective.
Assume the soft fork did not take place. We already saw the rhetoric about steem moving to Tron. Justin himself said it. He wanted Steem to become a TRC token on the Tron blockchain and Steemit would have been its front end.
The question of whether the soft fork was a great or poor decision will be answered over the course of the coming weeks. Let's see what Justin Sun does once he gains consensus on the Steem blockchain.
My estimation? He will actualize his HF allowing only Binance, maybe Huobi, and his own account to power down in 1-3 days. He will dump against the market soon after.
The entire situation is just one big mess, I personally am/was not against the soft fork as I don't see bad intentions and it didn't really compromise his funds even though it set a precedent. The hostile takover by Sun was just extremely stupid. I do understand both sides though as there is no valid evidence on the ninja mined stake. It's just the idea that many people now got forked out who did nothing wrong that makes little sense. We'll see where it out goes from here on out.
Mistakes have been made and will continue to be made. I don't want anything to do with what Sun has implied are his visions for Steem and I can only be grateful there is an alternative.
All I am saying is, if you supported Justin (in code it is anybody who upvoted sock puppets and had more than 1000SP and sock puppets themselves and obviously Steemit Inc accounts) then why would you want free Hive tokens?
As for the fence-sitters, like the proxy.token account they really can't protest. You can't do nothing and expect reward for it.
Let's see how it all shapes up. Hope to see you on the other side though.
You are buying into the narrative, the one that threatens those that hold power now. Do you think Sun could have forced those Steem out of your account somehow? The Fork option was always there and could have been used at anytime, there was no need to freeze his stake.
I am not sure if Sun will be good or bad for Steem, its sad he wasn't given the benefit of the doubt, we could be here right now just the same if he slipped up, there was no need to poke the bear. He has lots of money, connections and loads of hype. Could have given him some time and if it wasn't working out or no agreement could be reached on the ninja stake then fork.
The ninja stake was never clear cut enough for me, I wish it was but the evidence proves otherwise and also others ninja mined as well. Justin Sun came to Steem and was welcomed with a punch in the mouth.
What would be the ideology behind it? Ninja mine is fine as long as it is not a threat to the witnesses?
The Community™ can't take the moral high ground here. They were OK with it for 4 years, only when that stake presented itself as a danger to their power they forked it out. What's worse, that blacklist looks like something a vindictive child would make.
That is one way of looking at it.
What I think is not coming across it that the Ninja-mined stake that Steemit itself owned (other people did the ninja-mine) has a social contract on it. It was never meant to vote on governance. It was meant to grow the Steem ecosystem and support DApps.
I doubt anybody disagrees when it is voided on the Hive chain, right?
As for the vindictive blacklist, sure. Most people moving to Hive are pissed and this is definitely lashing back. Proper catharsis in my opinion.
If you backed Justin and his sock puppet witnesses why then do you want to get a free hit over at Hive? Shouldn't those accounts want to still be on Steem under Tron leadership?
Or maybe they just want Hive tokens so they can profiteer by dumping?
Justin Sun moved 3.6 million Steem to Binance so he could also take advantage of the airdrop as well. Ironic, don't you think?
Void it on Hive fine, its your chain. Void it on Steem it then comes under consensus, we are all supposed to have an opinion on that. By punishing accounts you lose any morale or social support on that chain, just saying.
There will be no voiding of anything on Steem. A bunch of people are powering down so I assume Justin Sun will have his consenus very soon once the former witnesses fall out of top 20.
I will then be able to actualize the HF he wanted and who knows what that will entail.
This is a contentious issue but my personal opinion is that I am okay with it. I personally don't want those people who deliberately supported Justin with witness votes to his sock puppets getting free Hive tokens.
That is akin to, for lack of a better word, infecting the hive chain with the hostility that the fork wanted to move away from.
I want both chains to prosper but I highly doubt Justin Sun's intentions are aligned with that. All the best to Steem.
Well not now but that was the initial intent. You don't want people who deliberately supported Justin getting an airdrop eh? Well explain how Binance and Huobi who were the ones who got Justin into those witness positions get an Airdrop, whilst those voting after the fact don't?
Good question.
On Huobi, it is true the participated in getting Justin his sock puppet witnesses but as soon as they realized what they had done, they immediately reversed their vote and started powering down.
On Binance, they also reversed their vote and started powering down but they never opened up withdrawals. Even with withdrawals deactivated for customers, somehow Justin Sun was able to withdraw 3.6M Steem from Binance. Clearly, unlike Huobi Binance are still in bed with Justin.
That is why many people including myself are against airdropping Binance the new Hive tokens.
However, doing that would void legitimate claims from steem users who have their funds frozen on Binance.
If it were up to me, I would consider everybody else collateral damage so Sun doesn't get a single Hive coin free, but that would be the childish vindictiveness previously alluded to.
You couldn't just attack the ninja mine coins for Justin was also moving his stake early around into accounts thus the blocking was done blindly to prevent any such cases.
I get why it was done but the rushed move to do it before more damage could occur just created blind justice and hopefully the appeal process is easy.
I'm pretty sure this was partly done to counter the fact that many of Tron were moving into proxy account ie a fear of buying to sabotage Hive.
The list was a pure bot with no human input hence why the list is so harsh and ignore people who voted but support Hive as well.
That actually might be the one valid point to all of this. It all feels very rushed and not thought through.
The question is where to draw the line. The biggest problem I see was the big ninja mined steemit inc stake which should prevent the sabotage of hive if it was removed. Banning these extra accounts just feels like an attempt to avoid selling pressure early on at a way too high cost.
hahaha being neutral is against the rules it seems!
What the fuck is going on here. I have never supported anything to do with Justin Sun and his takeover. I took the time to vote for new witnesses when I was asked. My votes were cast for everyone below # 20 just like I was instructed. I was also placed on a list informing me that I still had 4 other votes I could cast after casting my initial votes. I followed the advice of @tarazkp, @jaynie, @melinda010100 as all I wanted to do was to support everything that was going on in the way of removing the 20 sockpuppets that you say I voted for. I constantly went back to the chart to see how we were doing with the new witnesses.
To be included on this exclusion list is unfathomable. I love this community and have done everything in my power to support it and to move in a direction of becoming decentralized. As I sit here typing this reply my blood pressure is skyrocketing. The double wammy is that my wife who goes by @farm-mom is also on this exclusion list. She has done exactly the same thing I have done and this double whammy is more than we can handle. At 67 years young, I don't need this aggravation and unless someone at the top of this new decentralized block-chain called Hive can get this matter straightened out, both #thebigsweed and #farm-mom are going to hang it up, and that would be a real shame as we both have made so many friends and we both feel that we have created content that has been enjoyed by so many. Never any shit posts, never any self voting, and always interacting with the community with real replies, ones that are thoughtful and engaging.
Their are many people in the community that can vouch for our involvement and the quality of our content.Just to name a few, @jaynie, @broncnutz, @jlsplatts, @melinda010100, @riverflows @lizelle, @intothewild, @jerrytsuseer, @papilloncharity, @galenkp, @ecotrain, @tattoodjay, @plantstoplanks @@@glenalbrethsen @zekepickleman, @goldenoakfarm, @adagler @glenalbrethsen.
I have to end this right now as my frustration level is off of the charts.
I hope someone at the top of @hive can get this matter straightened out. If there was anything that Robin and I have done wrong it was due to our ignorance and had nothing to do with sockpuppets, Suns, or anything else that may have eliminated us from this air drop.
Boy were we looking to get started on this new platform, not so much anymore.
Good luck to all of our friends here on steemit I only wish we were taking this journey with you.
Please excuse any errors in this reply, my hands are shaking. I'm really MAD.
I feel your frustration, it does look like there is a possibility to get the tokens trough the HIVE DAO later so you should be fine in that regard. Good Luck