Appreciate the reply regardless of the snarling involved.
To be entirely honest HIVE doesn't pay me enough to brain wash me into overlooking the obvious lackings here and there. It's not perfect however it's accessible and easy to develop for when you compare the barrier to entry of engineering applications for it compared to something like solidarity on ETH.
After using chains without fees over the past almost half decade it's an annoyance to spend anything sending operations or transfers.. Perhaps steem/ HIVE spoiled us in that regards.
You're leaned the right direction stating that those deploying large amounts of hardware for infrustructure may be running at a loss, such is the cost of doing business. For the average witness who is developing apps on HIVE though it's not terribly difficult to get enough support to atleast have your infrastructure covered by the network itself.
"You witnesses are so wrapped up in your own cult you haven't even kept up with the innovations in the crypto space."
This here actually made me smile. While at times the witnesses act as a united front for the most part there isn't a whole hell of a lot of "group think" or anything going on, most people focus on their little piece and try to avoid the politics and shit, I don't blame em!
"You are sipping on some high-grade hopium without offering a single "killer app" anyone is building on Hive."
Hell man, I'm building stuff on HIVE right now that is arguably as close to the bleeding edge of it's style of market that is possible with a single man development team.. And this is just finishing up on stuff that is going to be released to generate income so I can focus on the types of apps and games that will attract even those not currently within the crypto sphere to inevitably get sucked in to "the cult".
STEEM and the way it was run looking back on it now is easy to see the path of ruin.. But none of us were complaining when it was $8 a pop were we? lmao. As for HIVE considering the age of the project and the fact we've basically cut the heads off the management in favour of having the technology gifted witness types steer the ship it will be interesting to see what comes of it. One interesting side effect to all of this is that even a relative nobody can enter this space and with enough persistence and work actually get things changed if they are able to convince those holding the largest stakes the idea is beneficial.
"you choose to live in your delusional bubble cult and continue to believe Hive is better and the unicorns and fairies will come"
Eh, HIVE is just one of many chains that I've currently got my dick dipped into, it's certainly the most socially accessible of the networks I fuck with. The whole thing of lamenting "People and developers don't use Hive because it's bad." seems strange to me.. At the fundemental core the technology is superb compared to a lot of shit out there when you consider metrics like scalability, cost of operation and total hypothetical IOPS.. The DPOS governance and top witness control of the chain version is something that I'd personally have redone into a system with less emphasis on a popularity contest and more emphasis on making it accessible to anyone wanting to witness in order to enhance the rate at which the servers running the network branch out globally.
Shit... Hive/steem/graphene is not perfect, never has been from conception.. But as far as blockchains that don't require thousands of dollars to develop and test apps on it's actually in the top percentile when you look at actual performance and costs. For the average lay-person very little of this matters as that type tends to consume and use applications without even the slightest inklings of the incredible amount of engineering building a real-time web or crypto application involves.. In the case of HIVE the whole thing has only within the last year even existed, if you'd like to gravitate towards percieving it as still born that is fine for sure.. However given the amount of time it generally takes development teams to build truly remarkable apps you're putting the horse ahead of the cart saying no "killer apps" are being developed.. Hell, the network has barely been around long enough to properly layout an application design let alone build the thing. XD
"And to say "Eth died" is absolutely delusional and devoid of reality. "
Crypto and it's core important fundamentals seem to differ between person to person. The whole DAO thing to me personally proved that of some govt agency went and stepped on Vitaliks balls hard enough that he'd be inclined to make changes they saw fit.. So for me personally ETH died when they forked off to cover their own asses.. Do people still use that shit? Of course! However is it a network completely safe from being manipulated from state actors or whomever? Absolutely not.
ETH classic is the real etherium.. The ETH we know today is merely a mockery of what the network could have been had they not decided to destroy the immutability aspect of their blockchain. This is merely my thoughts on their situation after being in crypto basically since it's inception.. Different people look at different things when they rank cryptos.. Immutability is one I look at a bunch. HIVE is not perfect in this respect either.. As we saw with the hostile takeover.. Same way I'd say steem is dead even though it still has users and active transactions going on the fundementals that it was based off of were tested and shown to have glaring holes in it.. Has HIVE fixed these holes? ehhhh... The risk of an outside bad actor coming in and buying up enough HIVE to take over the top spots is possible.. But if it happened I wouldn't even be sad as I'd be dumping into the price which would increase thousands of times over in this hypothetical situation and shifting focus onto other networks.
Hive isn't some bastion of perfection which I demand everyone be a part of in order to make it great.. Honestly I don't really fucking care if HIVE goes to $10 or to $0.01 in the end.. It's merely an affordable platform on which I can develop applications that can and will be ported over to other crypto networks which have a steeper developer entry price.. Do your heavy lifting and testing on a fast and free blockchain then if you find something else you'd like to offer services for.. do it.
I like HIVE, I like the little community we have here and the social aspect that comes with it all. Compared to other crypto communities it's a far better sample of every day people rather than the general bunch of sweaty neck beards most crypto communities tend to comprise of.
"They will not until you completely overhaul and improve the platform."
Agree with you 100% here man. This isn't some snap your fingers and have success type of thing.. a shitload of planning, developing, executing and marketting needs to be laid out and done before this and many other chains are "production" ready. Is HIVE the next big crypto to moon? Eh, probably not.. However with that being said it's not a bad bet to accumulate some when people start dumping a bunch due to FUD or whatever. Because regardless of your perception and stance on the network we've got a pretty fucking talented conglomerate of developers that are around HIVE building things, eventually given enough time one of these development outfits is going to make something that goes viral and when that time comes those who've been squirreling away HIVE bags for the long HODL will be looking thicc and those who sold out entirely to move on to something else will mutter nasty things and kick themselves.
End of the day it's pretty darn easy for users / consumers to sit and talk shit about stuff.. But as a general rule unless you're actively developing something somewhere you're just back seat driving. Don't like how shit is run? Pffft, the easy fix is to build something better, right? :D
I understand where you're coming from.. I get the culty references and shit for sure, I find it kind of funny but also see how one comes to that conclusion. Does HIVE have potential? I think so else I'd be based on some other chain.. Will HIVE reach it's potential? That is entirely up to the hundreds of talented developers building the HIVE core software and 3rd party applications / use cases. It could flop, it could moon, it could become a means for others to make shitcoins and pretend to be crypto moguls. Don't put all your eggs in one basket and you'll be fine.. I promise. :D
Calling someone delusional because they are able to see future potential is something you're going to have to remind yourself to keep in check. Generally the average person is dismissive or even aggressive towards the possibility of things coming down the pipeline that drastically change the dynamics of everything.. If you don't see the potential that is entirely acceptable though, perhaps for yourself as an individual HIVE may not offer much in regards of tools to build a better future for yourself.. But for a developer like myself I see an affordable platform to build software on top of until something takes off and the age of post scarcity begins.
Sorry for the wall of text. I appreciate the actually thought out responses and while our views are not aligned I respect your observation and train of thought on things. Pessimism isn't always a bad thing, neither is optimism. Cheers captain.
I apologize, but I couldn't get through your entire post. I get it, you don't like ethereum. But our opinion doesn't matter - if you want to succeed, you have to build a product that developers and users want. The reality is that developers and users use ethereum and bitcoin, nothing comes even close.
While Ethereum 1.x has plenty of limitations, It also has incredible technology built on top of it. Zero-knowledge rollups are, in my opinion, the greatest innovation in crypto since bitcoin invented the blockchain, and far exceeds anything Hive can offer. Not to mention the innovations Ethereum 2.0 brings to the table in the coming years.
My biggest problem with your post, however, is that you completely ignored EOS. Like I keep saying, it's basically an improved Hive. Everything you point out as advantages for Hive are even more amplified on EOS. Yet, no one uses EOS. EOS has realized what I have been saying, and are focusing massively on Ethereum interoperability and EVM compatibility. So are Polkadot, Cardano, Tron, and every other PoS chain. The days of "bitcoin killers" and "ethereum killers" were over in 2017, the only way to survive in 2020 and beyond is to become bitcoin and ethereum enhancers. There's a reason why every top 20 chain is focusing on ethereum interoperability, while absolutely no one wants to use Hive. It doesn't matter if you don't care about price, it's an accurate reflection of investors' confidence in a chain, and currently there is none in Hive.
Look, I'm deliberately being aggressive here because I want to see Hive succeed. For the last 4 years, all my constructive criticism has fallen on deaf ears. There's been negligible progress since 2017. I'm sure how you can see this makes one frustrated? So I'm making a last ditch attempt to make people wake up, accept Hive's glaring flaws, and completely overhaul the platform with a new concept to build something sustainable. I have mentioned some ideas in this OP and over the last several years, so I will not belabour my points.
With that, I'll wish you all the best. I hope you and other witnesses do some self-reflection and swiftly move to overhaul the system. I hope Hive works out.
I've only briefly used EOS so I'm not in a position to make an informed decision on the platform as a whole. First glance it seemed unnecessarily complex even for a tech-brain type like me but perhaps this could boil down to GUI design on the page I was using to interact with EOS. Not entirely sure.
Hive beats BTC at 2 things. Transaction speed and scalability. Remember having to wait 10 minutes or even up to hours in some cases to move BTC around for whatever reason? Pepperridge farm remembers.
The EOS project looks interesting but the way they seemed to favour playing by the govt rulebook and were asking for KYC for example for their blog platform makes me suspicious somewhat. I get why they'd play ball with the US govt but not sure how many crypto heads are going to willingly start acceptin things like KYC at every turn in order to use something.. Have in the past been completely turned off of otherwise solid platforms due to them trying to force KYC compliance.. Hates it.
Investors confidence is key to high market caps you figure? More of a "price rise due to FOMO" player myself as it seems a large majority of money playing in the crypto ecosystem are short term speculative HODL plans rather than multi year buy and holds.
Totally hear ya man. As a developer I share some of the frustration when I see certain things being done or neglected but in the end unless I'm willing to pull up my bootstraps and go fix issues I see within my power it's simply wasted emotion.
Not sure what needs overhauled besides the DPOS for me personally.. top 20 should be expanded to top 100 with witness vote decay in order to provide a level of dynamic and input required governance of the chain.. Although having a top 100 would make updating 5x more a nightmare than it is now.
Have a good night captain. Thank you for speaking your mind and playing devils advocate.
Transaction speed and throughput come at steep costs to decentralization. It's laughable that it costs more to run a Hive node than a bitcoin or ethereum node. We have people running Geth nodes on damn Raspberry Pis (See https://twitter.com/EthereumOnARM). We're already seeing functionality on Hive like get_content being moved out to centralized dbs (Hivemind) and this despite negligible economic activity on Hive. It's a slippery slope. Meanwhile, ethereum and bitcoin continue to transact billions every single day. This is what I consider true decentralization, and Hive does not offer it. You probably disagree, and that's OK, we'll have to agree to disagree. I'll say, though, that you'll find yourself in the overwhelming minority.
I'd point you to this post for more details: https://hive.blog/crypto/@liberosist/understanding-why-bitcoin-and-ethereum-have-high-fees-and-sustainable-solutions
Fortunately, solutions like zK rollups and sharding are sustainable solutions that'll bring scalability to crypto without sacrificing decentralization and security.
Oh man.. The cost to run a node now is almost 10x less than it was when I started witnessing on steem... Fuckin' spent a grand a month on servers almost at one point.. That was not fun at all.
You can run a basic node to carry out transaction broadcasts and to scrape blocks off of on a system with a bit less than 8GB RAM now adays, however the time it takes to get these economy setups going is measured in days due to the nature of the data replays.
Not sure how many transactions ETH processes but BTC is no where near billions of daily transfer operations, it's not even capable of such operation bandwidth as far as I know unless bitcoin core has had serious improvements since I last dug into it.
Hive is a distributed ledger.. As for if one can call a network where the vast majority of transactions are processed by the (usually) same 20 servers decentralized is something I'll leave open to everyone to think about (personally I think it's not nearly as optimal as it could be). Over half of all BTC mining occurs in China which in theory could lead to a chinese 51% attack if they all worked together.. While BTC and ETH are better decentraliztion wise neither of them is so decentralized they are untouchable.. :/
As far as API calls being indexed by external databases that is one of the few ways to make calls to fetch old data seamless from a users perspective. It takes less time to query a localized DB than it does to have the hive API go and search for it.. From a technical standpoint it makes sense.. Think of HIVE as a hard drive and the hivemind as a sort of RAMdisk.
Will have a look at these projects you mention. Always interested to see what type of new and innovative shit guys are coming up with!
I know things have streamlined a lot, but it's still nowhere near good enough. Call me when you can run a full Hive node on a damn Raspberry Pi like you can on ethereum.
Definitely look up ZK Rollups. 3,000 TPS on Eth1.x today. Like I said, Loopring Pay or zkSync has been doing 3,000 TPS, 0.3 second finality, <$0.01 fees for several months now. The makers of Gods Unchained are releasing their own custom zk Rollup for gaming/NFT applications with similar scalability. Same for Curve. Synthetix, Uniswap and other massive DeFi apps are using Optimistic Ethereum, a competing rollup scaling solution. Things are moving fast. We don't know yet what Reddit are using, but they are going to offer free/near-free transactions with <0.5s finality on ethereum through whatever scaling solutions they use. Same for Curve. Synthetix, Uniswap and other massive DeFi apps are using Optimistic Ethereum, a competing rollup scaling solution. Things are moving fast. We don't know yet what Reddit are using, but they are going to offer free/near-free transactions with <0.5s finality on ethereum through whatever scaling solutions they use.
When Ethereum 2.0 Phase 1 releases next year, that'll bump up throughput to 100,000 TPS, which is light years ahead of anything Hive can do.
The key difference, though, is that ZK Rollups is backed 100% by the security of the main chain.
I agree that PoW flawed, and I know you hate ethereum, but maybe you should check out Ethereum 2.0. This, in my opinion, is the first attempt at a truly massively decentralized blockchain network. Anyone with stake can run their own validators on cheap hardware. We'll have hundreds of thousands of validators. I believe it is significantly more resilient than PoW and of course DPoS.
Once you really look at the innovations in crypto, I think everyone will come to only one conclusion - Hive is falling far behind. In 2016, Steem was great tech. In 2021, it's a dinosaur. I'm here warning you of the meteor impact, I hope you all listen and prepare for it.
In order for HIVE to run on a Pi the specs on those would have to come up a bit more, mainly in RAM size.. Or the entire graphene engine beneath HIVE would need reworked in a way to allow it to run queries and replays concurrently on multiple threads of a CPU.. While possible in theory the cost in time and skill it would take to complete this is likely prohibitive sadly.
Interested to see how Eth 2.0 does honestly.. I for the record don't hate ETH but rather am dissapointed on how they destroyed what would otherwise be an amazing project by deciding to break the cardinal rule of allowing changes to a chain after blocks have gone past that height.
Will certainly have to look into these other projects. 0.3 second operation responses is fucking INSANE if it's actually able to confirm across the entire network that fast!
POW while cost prohibitive to attack almost all circumstances is an expensive way to secure a chain as far as energy consumption is concerned. Sure it's the original method and time tested but it's also archaic when you look at advances in other fields of IT work.
A truly "every mans" crypto that would favour proper decentralization and be resistant to stuff like mining farms or ASIC development that could be run by anyone ultimately would be the cure all for this.. Perhaps as global high speed internet becomes something accessible to everyone blockchain systems will piggyback on the infrastructure and ultimately become a widely used and accepted method of finance.
I'm not sure this comparison is even worthwhile. HIVE will never be better money than BTC. Security and decentralization are paramount to money.
Hive / DPOS sacrifice security and decentralization for speed and scalability. This makes sense for the purposes of a social network database where supporting a large number of low/no-fee transactions is paramount.
BTC was the first crypto money to market. And it is still the best, especially with the advances in lightning and culture of decentralization. Hive (i.e. the legitimate continuation of the Steem chain) was the first crypto social network to market. And it is still the best I believe.
Perhaps EOS or ETH L2 could serve as the foundation for a social network. But when Hive is already up and running, with almost all the required functionality and 1000s of users, I don't see any incentive to not just use Hive.
Rather than thinking that Hive is a complete failure, I think Hive is still early in its maturity and adoption. But if you had to recommend a decentralized social network to a content creator that is already lauched, what else besides Hive would you recommend?