More Misinformation
This has always been a rather deep subject that I've rather steered clear of, mostly because it's rather complex on the principal side of it. What I mean it that I believe no government should be allowed to dictate what you are allowed to do, but at the same time you need to stop and ask yourself when does the human baby inside the mother constitute being a human life and no longer part of the mother's body or just an organ.
The point of me highlighting this news story has more to do with how the media seems to be framing this. The fact are simple, there are two sides to this argument, those who are in favor of abortion and those who are not, and unfortunately the later side does have a logical and moral higher ground than the other. If you follow this to it's logical conclusion it is a human life that is being ended. The problem is that pro-abortion activists are pushing the argument to a place where the even most people who are in favor of this are unwilling to go, which is up until nine months. Which is literally insanity, most people view the issue and is fine with it up until the 3 month mark, and there is a honest discussion to be had from conception until that point anything beyond is pretty much medieval.
"The greatest destroyer of peace is abortion because if a mother can kill her own child, what is left for me to kill you and you to kill me? There is nothing between." - Mother Teresa
The issue here is about how the media has dug in and picked a side on this issue instead, and then misrepresenting the truth all in favor of getting more views, because at the end of the day that's what it's all about, get one side outraged and then cash in. The reason is because only one side looses their shit when triggered, let's not forget what happened when Trump won, I'm still waiting of the gas chambers for the gays. When the media starts saying that now women will be imprisoned for having a miscarriage, it's nothing more outright lies to enrage the masses, it's basically extremism.
Then there's the whole "my body, my choice" argument, there is literally another human being inside them, it's no longer just your body, the entire argument is biologically inconstant and void of all logic. The bill is called the "Heart Beat Bill" because there is another heart beating that does not belong to the mother. The only exception to the rule, that no one is allowed to stop the heart beat of another autonomous human being, is abortion. Then there's the idea that abortion is somehow a constitutional right, it is not, well not in America, and funny how now all of a sudden the constitution matters. Lastly you always hear the argument well abortion should be allowed across the board because of rape, incest and the health of the mother, the thing is those instances only make up less than 1% of all abortion cases. Most people agree on that exception, but that is not what they want, the want the exception to be the rule.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
"Abortion is wrong. I think everyone knows that, which is why abortion activists are so angry all the time. It's a bit like when you catch someone out in a lie, and they get really mad at you really quickly, and you can't work out why until later. It's guilt." - Milo Yiannopoulos
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This is a tough discussion and an emotional one as well :-) I personally feel very threatened by the direction 'we' are going as a society and I'm holding my breath for what is going to happen in the EU elections.
I always try to understand all points of this discussion but in the end I can only clarify mine:
Many people say 'this is a life' and should be protected. And from a certain point in the pregnancy I agree. But let's not pretend that we value a life in a mother's womb the same as one outside of it. There is a difference. There's a few famous philosophical cases that if posed to non-philosophers are generally answered the same.
Example:
Mom has a kid of 7 years old and a baby in her womb. Somehow she gets into a situation where she has to choose: save 7 year old or save the baby in your womb. Most people from all sides of the argument agree that the kid of 7 holds 'more value' at this point and would chose to 'kill' the baby in the womb.
I'm not saying we should not protect a baby in the womb, I'm saying there's an enormous amount of 'grey' and although I appreciate it if someone defines 'life' from conception, I believe it's not that black and white and as long as there's room for interpretation we shouldn't make 'law' that forces what's wrong or right on women.
Lastly: Women do want abortions. That's a fact. For whatever reasons they have for centuries decided This sucks and I would've rather prevented this happening but it DID happen and now I have to choose my own health/life/whatever.
You can have an opinion about that choice but can't deny they have been made forever. And they forever will be. The only question is: do we value the life and personal decisions of a woman enough to let her do it safely? Are we going to force women back to going to butchers or buying illegal and unsafe pills from the street? Are we going to force the poorest women that can't travel towards a State that would help them to labour an unhealthy/underfed/underdeveloped child only to give it a false start when se puts if up for adoption?
I know this is controversial but this is how we tend to solve things in the Netherlands: if we can't beat it (weed, prostitution, abortion) let's at least make it safe.
I always doubt if I should get into these discussions because everything I've written above you've read before, I'm sure of it, so I'm not going to change your thoughts, like you won't be able to change mine via this medium. Also: written down in my non-native tongue it's way more black and white than I'd probably be able to express in a conversation. Let's hope we'll have the chance to drink a beer someday and have these conversations IRL ;-)
Thanks for the reply, I think these things need to be discussed in a civilized manner, and not the way the media tends to approach this, by vilifying one side as religious fundamentalists or any other forms of bias.
I completely agree that everyone should have the right to choose what happens to their own body, but at a certain point in regards to pregnancy the choice no longer affects just your body. At a certain point their is another life, and a different genetic code that needs to be considered, and the discussion is basically where that point is. And there seems to be extremist positions on both sides, on one end you have the argument that life begins at contraception and the other side you have people who think that choice can even be made after the baby is born, like the Virginia late term abortion bill. And that is what happens when you follow both arguments to their logical conclusion, either it is a life and should be preserved or it's not and it doesn't matter.
In regards to the framing of the term "pro-choice" it's intellectually dishonest in my opinion, because it's not actually about choice, it does not encompass the other choices like contraception, abstinence, adoption or birth, it's about one choice, to have an abortion. And it's framed this way to normalize it.
As to the biological argument, the fetus is considered life according to science which happens between 7- 9 weeks, that's why most countries around the world allow abortion up to2 to 3 months. The question then is at what stage can the fetus feel pain?
Then as to your question: "do we value the life and personal decisions of a woman enough to let her do it safely?" Yes we should, but not at the expense of another life, if we consider that a life. Just because something has been done for years does not justify it. Also no one is even suggesting that abortion be outlawed and the women go to butches to get abortions, they are delineating a cut off point where they view a life begins, biologically.
The question should be, when is the fetus or baby considered a life?
I am glad to read your well-considered opinion based on reason and understanding such facts as we can ferret out of our extant nescience regarding when our humanity begins.
I think it's a little simpler than that. People have rights. At some point a person is present in the womb, once the brain is organized and capable of generating whatever it is that we call a person. There are questions as to when a person is extant in the womb, and this leaves us unable to say with certainty when abortion becomes murder. Given that no one has a right to murder another person, however much more convenient it would be were the victim to die, it is critically important to human rights to ensure we do not cross this line. If we are to err, it is right and lawful we err on the side of caution, IMHO.
There are many opportunities prior to that formation of a human person to prevent potential liability for murder during abortion, and we are all responsible to undertake them fully before risking murder. There are various social problems that limit the practice of prudence in reality, and these should be better resolved long before we advocate murder to solve problems that unwanted pregnancies pose us. Men also should be accorded rights equivalent to the responsibilities we are charged with as well, and this is extremely neglected in this debate. Abortion and parenting are not matters affecting only women. It does indeed take two to tango, and parents of both sexes have rights as well as responsibilities equal to their roles.
Thanks!
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Good article. Maybe, I am over simplifying it by stating the obvious. Here is what I mean, they pose that a woman should have the right to exercise control over her own body. Isn't that what she did when she decided to have unprotected sex? Historically to enslave or exploit a people, you must first dehumanize them. This allows one to perpetrate and justify all kinds of heinous acts. We don't really speak on all of the atrocities that took place under slavery. It would offend and shock our sensibilities. The same with abortion. With abortion, they call the child a fetus or "just tissue". In other words, it is justified because it is not yet a human. Never mind that this is the process by which we all come into this world. Someone else is sitting in judgement about the value and worth of some else's life (i.e. the "fetus"). And in most cases abortion is chosen because people don't want to be inconvenienced. If that is the case, then where do we draw the line? We see it played out in culture. People will now take a life because they were cut off on the freeway or someone got their fast food order wrong. And that ain't just in the hood.
In cases of child abuse and other rape, she didn't have that choice. Even so, once a human being is present in the womb, whether that person's mother was raped doesn't make it permissible to murder that person. Prior to a person being present in the womb, there is no just reason to restrict their parents from deciding whether it should come into being. After the person is present, no one, neither mother, father, nor anyone else, should have any right to kill them, for any reason.
People have rights. Should a man have unprotected sex, unvasectomized, with a women they know to be fertile, IMHO they have foregone any right to demand abortion. Should a woman voluntarily do the same, I reckon that's the case - but only once it is possible that a human person is present in their womb. Prior to an actual person being present, it's her body, and therefore her choice what may grow into a person within it.
Thanks!
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What a can of worms. Seriously.
You are absolutely correct that this is a media frame job. Plain and simple. I'm not exactly sure of the path this took to get here, but here we are.
I heard a piece last week that had the sky falling and women reduced back to property and slavery. That author referred to 'Roe v Wade' as the law of the land and the Alabama law as being against the law.
Roe v Wade is a court case. A seminal case, to be sure, but still and all a decision by the Supreme Court. It IS NOT law.
I have two close friends that can not bear children because of botched back room abortions in the 60s. They were not performed in a 'medical setting' or by a doctor.
I'll make no comment on the choice, I simply can't. But I will say that there are circumstances where abortion seems the only choice and they should be done medically rather than in a back room.
Similarly there are circumstances where murder of people seems the only choice outside of wombs. We must lawfully preclude murder to ensure just government. Abortion is murder if the tenant of the womb is a person, and the development point of a person is in question. There can be no justification for murder being lawful. Self-defense is not operable, except in extraordinary medical cases.
At some point a human being is present in the womb in almost every pregancy, except, again, in extraordinary medical cases where the child is brain dead, and at that point abortion becomes murder. No matter how convenient or advisable murdering someone might be, a just nation cannot permit it. Every person has equal humanity, and the rights accorded us all are equal.
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Great article along with some very thoughtful comments. The media is really the culprit here in my opinion. They have worked to inflame emotions on both sides often generating more false information than real information. An example of this is one of the comments to the article stating that it wouldn't be right to imprison a woman for having an abortion. This person is correct, it wouldn't be right, everyone recognizes that to the point the Alabama law explicitly protects the woman involved from legal issues surrounding the abortion.
The media could help bring the tension is this debate down, but that would cut into profits I suppose.
Sadly, I expect that more than just profits are driving the enemedia to inflame this question. I believe it is a classic example of Hegelian Dialectic, intended to divide a people that they might be more easily ruled.
You are probably correct. Between the media and the political parties we are all surrounded by dividing forces.
This illustrates to me again the value of remaining free to evaluate information and make decisions based on my own understanding. Folks that instead rely on manufactured opinions to inform them become tools of overlords, and attack their own people with their obedience to vampiric onslaughts.
Thank you.
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I think it is extremely sad when a woman needs to do an abortion, but at the same time I definitively don't think it is fair to imprison her.
No matter what is said, I believe abortion is wrong, bad and shouldn't be approved
You should adopt some retarded babies trumptard
If someone had done that for you, you might have turned out to be a better person. Unfortunately, you've become a retarded scumbag now. Bad parenting seems to have compounded what might have been mitigated with good parenting.
Sad.
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