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RE: Consensus is not Science. Science is not Consensus.

in #informationwar6 years ago

IF this event happens THEN do this

I understand pseudocode, but this example is irrelevant to religion.

I can, though, propose similar examples in religion.

Magic is built this way: if you make a sigil, expect these results.

Liturgy programmed this way: First do this, then do that.

IF I was told it is true though I can't prove it, and neither can they THEN do this

Thruout our discussion you have failed to name even one religion. I am losing my patience.

You can't code that. It can't read minds and infer belief.

Obviously you can. In programming you can write a listener that is triggered when information matching a particular pattern comes ('if I was told it is true'), and the computer by default won't try to verify this information. This is exactly how programming languages work.

The logical operators required for IF, THEN statements which is at the root of most programming are measurements.

Religion does not deal with measurements, at least not that I know of.

Still, religion may use a similar expression. Example: you can only eat meat if it was not sacrificed, Sikhism (it may have something to do with exclusive or).

Proving to me that you know a bunch of programming expressions doesn't mean anything.

It cannot make things true simply because a person believes they are true.

Use observation, then. Learning from observation is still within the boundaries of religion.

Code can only work with raw data, which is observable, measurable, and REPEATABLE, and thus we can build things with it as it is reliably predictive and follows known rules. That is what science works with.

Not true. Code can work with true random number generators. Code does not verify data, unless you specifically program it to do so. Again, this discussion is not applicable to religion. I am a professional Android developer and it would be very difficult for you to teach me what software can or cannot do. If you do not stay on topic, though, but diverge into programming exclusively, I will sever this conversation.

All mathematical equivalency checks... i.e. measurements.

Bullshit. Software is driven by arbitrary flings of finger. If it was like you say, touch screens would not have been possible.

Religion does not.

All what you say above is applicable both to software and religion. Both are able to process arbitrary, unverifiable and not repeatable data. Both are for humans, made by humans. Both serve the same purpose.

They are subjective.

Both religion is and the design of your favourite software. I am lost on what you are talking about.

I am a super powerful person and then demanding you believe it

Stay on the topic of religion or get lost.

Being religious does not require being super powerful.

You may think... "I can kick your ass and show you"

I do not feel like kicking you in the ass, even though I do not like you. Stop making arbitrary judgments.

That is what science tries to do.

Religion makes bread and music. Does not kick people in the butt for no reason. Maybe some religions do, but there are plenty of other religions that don't. Show me a fundamental Unitarian or a Unitarian terrorist.

What if I die and they continue talking about me

What then? What does it have to do with religion or science?

Try to name several religions you do or do not like. Stop comparing religion to science, because it is not the same. The purpose of religion and science is completely different.

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I understand pseudocode, but this example is irrelevant to religion.

No it is not irrelevant.

Science and religion both are trying to do the same thing.

The difference. One requires proof, the other requires faith. Pretty simple.

the ones that have outserved their purpose get abandoned.

It depends on the religion. Many of the major ones claim to be the word of God. Thus, technically they can't be abandoned. ;)

I am surprised that you do not understand that old religions are being abandoned when they no longer serve their purpose. Do you think that once a religion is constructed a people is compelled to practice it forever?

Oh yes, I understand that. I thought you were trying to defend modern religions. It is difficult to see that as happening today (though yes hopefully in the future) when people are beheaded, burned at the stake, etc for challenging or asking questions about some belief. This is very common with Islam today. It has had periods of such actions within "Christianity" as well. That dreaded group think combined with human nature often leads to us vs them situations and bigotry of one form or another.

Now another thing. I think you might be equating some things that are considered spiritualism with religion. Spiritualism is not really organized. Thus it isn't technically a religion. It tends to be personal for each person rather than pushing their beliefs and converting other people.

Some of the things you referred to here actually fit within spiritualism rather than religion.

Spiritualism is still not scientific, but as I stated there are many things science cannot explain. If it can't repeat it, observe it, etc then science can't do anything with it. That doesn't mean it does not exist.

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Religion makes bread and music.

No it doesn't.

Both bread and music use measurements. Bread the measuring of ingredients. Music measures time, frequency, and timbre to compose music. It doesn't require a person know music theory, yet your mind still instinctively breaks the music up into time to create beats.

You are confusing religion with creativity. They are not the same thing. Not even remotely.

There are breads made in Sikhism (roti), and there are probably so many Christian dishes too.

That is cultural. :) It isn't produced by belief. You don't get Roti, and Christian dishes by believing they will appear.

You measure, and you make things. You are busy trying to defend religion and I don't think you are grasping what I was talking about.

A person can be both religious, and practice science. Religion and Science just are not the same things. They can reside inside the same person.

The problem is that these days that claim to be science are not. They are based on belief. Asking questions about them is treated as "heresy", and a rush to demand censoring questions is pushed. That is not science. It is something that religions tend to do though. Not all of them have that defense mechanism designed into them, but most of the big ones do.

Christianity.
Judaism.
Islam.

Those certainly all have defense mechanisms. Islam is the most extreme. They use it these days to justify stoning people, beheading them, etc.

Making bread uses measurements. It doesn't magically appear due to belief.

Religions incorporate history, culture and many other things into their texts and teachings. Yet that is not the part seeking to explain reality and basing it purely upon faith and/or belief.

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