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RE: Question time, Israel!

in #israel7 years ago (edited)

Very sharp observations. I'm sure some if not all of these goals are part of the underlying agenda of the powers that operate in the shadow.

Be that as it may, it doesn't diminish in any way the responsibility of the coward IDF snipers shooting at unarmed protesters. I don't deny that some of the protesters went too far, but there is simply no justification for gunning someone down who is 'armed' with burned tires and slingshots. That is blatantly disproportionate use of force. Reportedly two of the killed protesters were amputees. Imagine how much of a coward and immune to human emotions someone has to be to shoot at somebody who has no legs.

Probabilities of this type of activity turning out to the protestors benefit are very LOW.

True, in fact many of them suffer gravely from it. I do believe however that they are martyrs as their deaths don't go unnoticed. More and more people are waking up to Israeli's apartheid treatment of the Palestinians. As the pressure rises, Israel will soon be unable to continue its atrocities against Palestine.

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slingshots.

Slingshots can kill. Truly you or I can talk about disproportionate force all we want and it won't matter. If I had a gun and a bunch of people ran at me throwing stones at me then there is a chance I'd shoot them. If I didn't have a gun then I would consider what was available to me.

If protests turn violent then it does not surprise me it is answered with violence.

Also the chemicals from burned tires can cause long term health impacts on people. I've known of that for some time due to being in areas near burning tires.

People like to hide behind "Disproportionate"

He was shooting at me with a bow, so I went and found a bow to shoot back. Not realistic.

I have ZERO sympathy for people who choose violence to protest.

I may have sympathy for WHY they are protesting, but not for them. I consider it idiotic to protest in violence.

For me violence is self defense only. Yet, if protestors violently attacked me I wouldn't hesitate to kill them if I thought that was necessary to my safety or the safety of others.

If you check death stats I believe you'll find people being killed by stones is actually pretty high.

As the pressure rises, Israel will soon be unable to continue its atrocities against Palestine.

As long as it is answered by terrorism then I doubt this is true.

Protesting with violence is not convincing to many people.

If they were like Ghandi and peacefully protesting and getting shot and killed then yes that sends a powerful and condemning message. However, that is NOT what has been occurring.

Violence and property destruction are not compelling.

The overwhelming majority of the protests have been peaceful. On the other hand, numerous incidents were reported and even captured on video that show the ruthlessness of Israeli forces. Not only threatening to aim at children but actually shooting at armed civilians who are nowhere near the border. Remember it's not like the Palestinians are running straight toward a soldier. The soldiers are behind the border fence and shooting with sniper rifles from their comfort zone. A professional sniper can take a target out from several hundred feet away. You never see an Israeli shooting in actual self-defense, i.e. being directly threatened. You only see Palestinians running or sometimes walking on Palestinian territory and just dropping to the floor. That is what I refer to when I use the term disproportionate force. deliberator has linked to several examples of video footage where this occurs.

We don't know how or when the protests turned violent, but the benefit of the doubt has to be with the Palestinians since they are not the ones who have been captured committing those atrocities. I'm just speaking of the Great March of Return protests, not any extremist attack that occurred before that which is sadly true. It is these protests that have led to the massive outrage around the globe. Never has the solidarity movement been greater than now. A few foul apples who resort to violent tactics won't change the overall perception, and rightfully so.

I believe you absolutely that the smoke from burning tires can be hazardous, but this is a pathetic tool in comparison to the arsenal Israel has at its disposal. Look at their employment of tear gas which suffocated an 8-month old (they don't stop for press members either):

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/59qpqq/a-8-month-old-baby-in-gaza-died-from-tear-gas-inhalation

benefit of the doubt has to be with the Palestinians since they are not the ones who have been captured committing those atrocities.

There is no "has to be". That is subjective. It also applies an appeal to authority. I don't tend to accept mandates.

a pathetic tool in comparison to the arsenal Israel has at its disposal.

So what?

Death and injury are death and injury. If you attack me with anything I'll attack back. Which of us has better weapons is irrelevant.

I'd say 60 dead, 2700 injured vs 1 injured suggest that it does matter.

Quantity does not make things good, bad. Even 1 is bad.

The reality is that if you attack a border even with stones then there will be consequences.

It was pretty damn stupid. Yes, they were goaded into it, yet it was stupid.

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even captured on video that show the ruthlessness of Israeli forces.

I've seen videos from both sides. If you see this as one sided then you're spending too much time in an echo chamber. There are atrocities happening on both sides of this issue.

Still. Irrelevant. This method they are using WILL NOT work. It is thus a stupid approach.

Expecting a fast response will not work either. So peaceful protests are the only way... as soon as they turn violent then the progress from peaceful protests is lost.

If they truly are seen as the victim they have a chance for world wide sympathy and support. If they decide to destroy property, or support terrorism, or commit acts of violence then that victim hood status is tainted.

It doesn't really matter if people are not paying attention to human nature, and history.