Image from Mark Schaefer at Pixabay
Is the title a bit dramatic? Perhaps I overstepped the mark or should I have placed: Would you kill a family member?, but I suppose it would also have an effect on ethics and morals when making a decision, a condition that possibly has not been taken into account in this exercise.
Not long ago, I made a comment (as usual) to a particular post, this post was about the dilemmas and decisions that a human being must constantly make and many times we drown in a glass of water when we try to decide which option is best to make.
Every day we are always making decisions, which shape our past, present, and future. Possibly that's why it's so hard for us to decide on the best option. All decisions have led us to where we are today. However, many of us get stuck thinking or making a decision and often we decide not to do anything (which is also a decision). That post reminded me of the train dilemma.
Let's take a look about this dilemma
The train's dilemma
The dilemma is as follows, a train goes in a hurry along a rail where there are 5 people tied up, but you have the opportunity to activate a command on the train's control panel to take a different rail and avoid killing those 5 people. The problem now arises because the new track will run over 1 person. Would you activate the command? Would you kill 5 or 1? (Obviously, it is a simpler panel than the one shown in the image).
This is an exercise conceived by the British philosopher Philippa Ruth Foot, who was against consequentialism, which bases its theories of ethics on the following premise: an action is judged good if it generates the greatest good possible, that is, if the amount of good surpasses the amount of evil. In short, the morality of an action depends only on its consequences, and here appears the famous phrase: the end justifies the means (Niccolò Machiavelli).
We usually measure important decisions that way, don't we? Remembering what Spock would say
Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few
Therefore the correct action would be to activate the command to divert the train and kill only one person.
But for Philippa Foot, morality comes from people's virtues and principles. So the act of killing (even one person) would be considered a bad decision. So from my point of view, that person would not do anything, therefore, he/she would not be guilty of not killing anyone?
What would you do? Does this dilemma have a solution?
The previous experiment, most people choose to save 5 people and kill 1. Although there is a smaller group that decides not to do anything (will they be virtualists?).
Have you thought about what your decision would be? I would also decide to activate the train's command and avoid killing the 5 people. However, if the person is a relative of mine... It is regrettable what will happen to the 5 people...
Especially if it's my best friend. I'm sorry for all of you, 5 strangers, you will die. I guess I’m a virtualist.
Well, hold your thoughts ...
There is another version created by the philosopher Judith Jarvis Thomson, which changes things for all of us, who follow Spock philosophy (consequentialism, more specifically utilitarianism, where the best action is the one that maximizes utility).
This woman (women always creating controversies), changed the rules of the dilemma. The same train is going to run over the 5 people, but now to avoid this catastrophe, you will have to push a very fat man over the railroad tracks, in such a way that by his weight the train will stop (obviously killing the fat man).
It's the same scenario, either you kill 5 or you kill 1. But this experiment changed the results of the previous one. The utilitarians wrinkled... (as we would say here, in my country, hehe), that is, the utilitarians refused to push the fat man.
The point is that now you have to physically kill someone, which is why there are very few who decided to do it. Perhaps not only the virtues play a role in the moral decision, the mere fact of thinking that I will be imprisoned for killing a fat man, who possibly dies of obesity, will avoid my action of pushing him.
What do you think?
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Hi @jadams2k18, thank you for your memo.
I had the same discussion with friends a while ago. It is really hard to decide and I think a lot of people would be "selfish" and rescue a close one instead of strangers.
I only heard the test with 5 alcoholics and 1 doctor. The doctor can save lives while the others are bad in the eyes of our society O.o
I hope none will ever come to such a decision because either way you go you have to live with the consequences.
Cheers,
Max
Yes, in the end, you have to live with the consequences.
However unreal they may be, they are decisions similar to those that can be confronted by leaders (presidents), the military, firefighters, rescuers.
Thanks for commenting
Now this is very interesting, I have thought a lot about writing a similar sort of post to this, more about the value of life.
In the one i have been thinking about, there are 6 people, you know nothing about any of them, you have to chose one to die, and how knowing more about those peoples changes it, and changes it again and again and again. But ultimately, is all life not the same? Does it not all have the same value? Knowing nothing, i would kill one to save five, but then things like the age of the people is one of the only factors that might actually make a difference to me. What knowledge would change it for you? Would you let a train run over 1 murderer to save 1 child? But then.. you are a murderer... what if that person was considered a murderer because they had done exactly the same thing. Will you be the push-in-front-of-the train option for the next person?
Would you kill 5 people in their late 90s to save a 3 year old? Or 5 people with terminal cancer to save a 16 year old? I would argue life is life, and is has the same value regardless of who's life it is, the only factor would be how much life there is. Life can't be assigned value, my life isn't worth more than anyone else's.
I was a child when i first encountered this same issue. I reached a conclusion then i would stand by today.
If someone had my dad, and someone elses dad (dad perspective cos this was something i thought about as a kid) and i could only save one, could i save my dad knowing i had taken someone elses dad from them? I know my dad would forgive me if i didn't chose him, he would have wanted to be there for me but could i inflict the same level of hurt onto someone elses, to avoid it myself? I don't think i could, i think at least knowing i was bearing the hurt of it so someone else didn't have to would at least help.
To me, that is the crux of adding a family member to this question. Would i save my one best friend, and kill 5 unknown strangers, and put that hurt that i would go through on everyone who cared about those 5. A life isn't just its own, it belongs to everyone who loves it. So i would either have to know everything about everyone, which in reality is impossible to do, or say the value of life is equal and always save the greater number.
But then, would you save 1000 convicted criminals, or 1 doctor? the doctor might save more 1000 lives, the criminals might take lives, but who am i the judge the value of those lives? I don't know what they may or may not do in their lives, or what they may or may not influence in others. I don't know for real until it i am there, no one would really. i think about it a lot, but i still can't say for sure. So in that sense, it is better to know nothing about the people. 1000, vs 1 with no facts about the people - easy, save 1000. Some of the facts about the people but not all of them - impossible as you don't know what you don't know, and what you know could be misleading (the doctor may not even be a medical doctor, but as soon as i hear doctor, that was what i thought of). all of the facts - hard, but possible, and easier to live with.
if there was the option to swap myself for the person, i think i might do that, i know all about me, and exactly who i would be hurting by doing that, and i would struggle to do that to my family, but i don't think I could do to 5 other families instead. That said, there in the moment, i don't know.
I love your long comments
You've analyzed the situation quite a bit. Life is priceless and precious.
Deciding who dies and who doesn't, is very difficult, however, as I have already mentioned in other comments, there are those who make this kind of decisions in their work.
For my part, I would hate to take a job where I have to make these kinds of decisions. The burden is too heavy.
I'm glad you stopped by
Brilliant comment @calluna
Upvoted
Huge dilemma..!!
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With the first scenario:
First of all why are all these people playing the damn train track or just standing their?
The modification of the first one, and the solo person is my family member.
Let's look at the third preposition that the fat man would be pushed in front of a train.
Fun thoughts. Thanks for get my brain moving on a Monday morning!
I'm going to hang out by some train tracks now and try to save people. :P
Hahahah... You made me laugh a lot! man
Actually, in the real exercise, you are told that there is a psychopath who has tied 5 people one track and 1 in the other track. That's why they can't be detached from the track by themselves. And you are the one who can
And in the other exercise, you are told that the fat man is fat enough to stop the train. I also thought it must be impossible to move that fat guy. I guess you have to take a strong impulse, run and hit the fat guy hard to get him on the track.
Thanks for coming by
Seriously brilliant comment
upvote on the way @jacuzzi :)
Hello my dear @jadams2k18. Generally many of us are slow when making decisions, this is due to the ability to reason we have.
The dilemma raised implies a transcendental decision in the lives of 6 people, which makes it very difficult to decide.
In my particular case I must confess that I would need a lot of time to make a decision like that, so I do not know what I would do.
Take care!
That's right, my friend. But when you have the time to think about what decision you would make, let me know your answer
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Hi @jadams2k18
First, whatever the replies; most people will NOT act- simply out of the fear of becoming tainted with death.
Second, the question about actually killing someone to avoid a worse fate misses one point- there is no right choice. Both ways you are a loser- either a coward and indecisive person OR a heartless amoral being.
Third, how much ever we try to 'induce' the atmosphere of pressure and tension- it cannot be duplicated. Let me explain: If I say a bullet hit my arm, breaking a lot of bone and tissue- This explanation of what happened cannot even come close to the ACTUAL experience. The violence and pain cannot be conveyed, imagined at most but never really conveyed. The point: If I cannot duplicate conditions, the results are unreliable at best.
PS: Blow up the train!!!
Heeeelllooooo, my friend @sarez!!!
Yeah! That's what I'm talking about! Hahahha...
That's totally true my friend.
The situation is very difficult to answer, but I suppose they are the kind of decisions that a president, a captain, a general or any other commanding person should know how to make or at least not be paralyzed when choosing an alternative. Don't you think?
I'm glad you took the time to stop by
blog up the train? :) best solution ever @sarez :)
What do I think?
Where am I standing that I can watch this all and am able to push someone in front of the train?
Honestly speaking it depends on the people standing there.
Fat or tiny will be no reason to push them to stop the train so a group of terrorists can be saved.
They won't be grateful anyway.
I have family members left I will gladly push in front of the train if that saves some (good) people.
Since I am a woman and can change the rules but not the fact we live in a man's world and I can push someone else in front of the train, I am close enough to step in front of the train myself and stop it that way.
Why killing someone else if you can do the job yourself? I am fit enough to crawl over and it will be a relief (which is living with killing an innocent person is not).
💥💕
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Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let me see if I understood what you said. I suppose that if you go inside the train, you would activate the command so that 5 people don't die. Right?
I'm assuming that since you're only talking about the fat man's version. So, in the fat man's version, you are telling me that you would throw yourself instead of pushing the fat man? Interesting.
What terrorists are you talking about? All 5 people are innocent people.
Living with the burden of having killed a person must be very hard and even traumatic.
If it comes to saving someone we always judge by what we see/think. We never are really objective.
If it comes to just the title you used the answer is: yes.
Killing can also be a deed of love.
If it comes to family the answer is yes too.
If I can save someone by stepping in front of the train my answer is yes too. If I can push someone I can go myself too.
Case number one... I would not sacrifice 1 to save 5... By the way are these 5 all deaf too they cannot hear the train come?
The story is hard to believe.
Besides: the Sheppard cared more about the 1 (lost) lamb as all sheep's (does not make sense either).
💥💕
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Hahaha. Sorry, the real exercise tells about a psychopath who tied up all those people. They can not move.😅
I like the way you think 😉💕
So a psychopath tied 5 people up on the railroad and is watches/waits/asks me what choice I make?
Pushing him (the one person) and save those 5 (how fast is that train driving to untie these 5 in time?)...
Jumping in front of it myself and?
Psychopaths never can be trusted are (high) intelligent and easily fool people (including shrinks) and are charming.
Somehow the story does not make sense.
Thanks 💥💕
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Charming??? Oh my!
Remember me, where's the Stockholm Syndrome from?
I'm kidding! 😄
The situation is designed for you to make the obligatory decision to kill 1 or 5 people. They are exercises designed by philosophers and perhaps psychologists. Crazy people. 😜
At first thank you for this valuable post. In my opinion if anybody push that fat man there happens a creation of will. That means if not any intervention happens the fat man will live. On the other hand in the dying of 5 people do not include our mistake. The reason do not change the result. If anybody push fat man kills fat man. In the dying of 5 there is only one person who ties them has responsibility
For one situation or another, you are responsible for both the death of the Fat Guy and the death of the 5 people. You have to choose which one will be. It's a hard choice.
I saw something on tv with train dilema and other things about how people are influenced by first seconds and how they taking decision but all that change when is about family. I don't know what i would do, i hope i will never get in the position were i have to choose
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When a loved one is involved, everything changes. But your answer is the most human: never had to make a decision like that.
Thanks for commenting
Well, there are no two ways about it. No matter how you try, there must be a kill!
Sorry to say but I'll crush the 5 strangers and go my way just to save my best friend.
On the other hand, I see no reason why I should push an innocent person into a railway just to save 5 strangers when I can also jump into the railway and probably stop the train myself(obviously leading to my death). So, I'll leave the 5 strangers to die!
Thanks for having me!
I think the same. When a loved one is involved, everything changes.
That's another choice. Good one! I like the way you think
Thanks for passing by
I do not believe I can kill a person I care about, even if it's to save other people.
It may sound cruel, but I do not believe in the simple mathematics that the life of 5 is more valuable than that of 1 person, I am a supporter that if it is a question of choosing, I would choose to save those I love without caring about any other factor.
I suspect that some moralist would accuse me of being selfish or immoral, but a variant of the exercise could help: This time it's the same person who has to decide, has a detonator in each hand, will die if he presses any of them, but, one of the detonators is going to kill a group of strangers and the other is going to kill a very dear member of his family ... he has to choose to die for any of the options, in case he does not choose in a set period, as the three detonate loads and all die ... I think this variant of the execution is terrifying and difficult enough to make any moralist doubt their decisions.
If the person loves me as much as I love her/him, then I would die with this person because neither of us could live without each other. And then our spirits would haunt this person till his own death. Hehehe
It depends on what kind of love we are talking about: whether is love towards a son, daughter, brother, sister, parents, lovers, wife, girlfriend, etc. I might or might not kill the 5. And, of course, my My spirit full of vengeance would return from the world of the dead and It would not rest until It gave death to the person who dared to endanger my loved ones. Mwahahaha
Thanks for commenting
A Love at the level of the Soul is something that sounds beautiful and it seems that few people reach it in this life, if that were the case you could die to save the life of the other person, of course that would leave you the terrible burden of carrying our death ... that remorse can be terrible, I've heard about the survivor's syndrome and it seems that it can be very hard.
On the other hand, tying the Soul to this world for revenge sounds like a horror movie :) Well, I think it is a possible option, but some would prefer not to remain condemned to wander through this world ... maybe if the danger is not over and we have to take care of the people we left behind (eliminating the threats that remain), maybe if we are very likely to remain as guardian spirits.
I guess it is.
Hahaha. Also, creating more karma!
Sounds beautiful
yes without hesitation is it will save more lives , its not about the greater good its about the amount of lives saved even if it meant people backtalking and having an opinion on what i should have done
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Yes. That's right. The next question would be: Could you bear the burden?
Thanks for coming by
very possibly yes or i might rent a boat and live alone for a year on an island 🤔 p
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Like Oliver Queen (Arrow)?
Source
yeah 😂 but i like red better 🤔
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Red is a nice color. But most people don't love it here because it's the government color. If you wear red they think you're with the officialism. Politics, right?
here each party has a different colour but the colour doesn't define us i mean if we were really bothered with it the trees would be painted, colour added to the ocean blood colour change(not possible but people will try) 😂 politics is just a joke a way to control the powerless by the rich
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@jadams2k18, If we haven't gave then we can't take and by that i mean, we can't take anyone's life because we are not the creators. For every problem there is a solution.
And in life, sometimes people neglect important measures and they put themselves in a position from where it's difficult to pull them out. For example, we all know while driving we have to put the seat belt, but many neglect it and others who are in the car they also fail to see that and advice it, this may leads to serious accidents, in a way little things leads to major incidents.
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Hello! my dear @chireerocks
That's true. And I'd like to know if there's a solution to this dilemma.
Negligence is everywhere here in my country. I don't know how it will be where you live. But here people don't always wear seat belts, they drive under the influence of alcohol, even drugs. And many other things (Is that why we have a very low suicide rate?, who knows) It's like part of our nature. Or maybe it's laziness. I wouldn't really know what the reason is.
Thanks for commenting
Yes, i said the same thing, means I've covered both sides, i mean,
Enjoy your time ahead and stay blessed.
The same to you my friend
Thank you so much.
Quite interesting dilemma, I must confess.
It's a pretty straight forward answer for me. I'll let the train decide for itself.
I can't divert it to the single man (be it my friend, family or just anyone) because I might not know his situation, he man be the only child left in his family and probably has a bright future ahead.
So, it shouldn't be in my powers to decide who dies or who stays. I'll just watch the action while screaming and hoping they don't die after been hit by the train :)
It really is a difficult decision. And whatever decision you take or don't take, you will still be living with that burden.
Dear @ jadams2k18, personally I think it is better not to do anything, because if I have control over a person dying instead of those 5 I prefer not to do anything because if I do I would be responsible for killing one but if not I do not be responsible for anything that happens, he would be responsible who would have tied them in that place, that is my opinion and that I think is the best decision.
Hello @awfunn!
As you say, the person responsible should be the person who kidnapped the five victims. And these are situations that we are not prepared to deal with.
I suppose these are situations for qualified personnel, such as police, firefighters, rescuers, military staff.
And I think the hard part is not making the decision, but enduring living with it.
Thanks for coming by
Dear @jadams2k18.
I'm completely according with you,I will make more posts, I am very busy, but i have a an great idea to do my new posts, i hope that you will be paying attention to my future posts, thanks and have a good week.
I will check you out. However, maybe some memo to remember?
Hi @jadams2k18, Yes, you're correct (A memo to REMEMBER to you)
Don't forget...
You can bet on it!
I hope I never find myself in a position as uncomfortable as those raised in the dilemma of the train, however, if I had to make a decision, I think I would prefer the one that causes the least possible damage.
I think so, too. And the problem is not to decide but to live with the burden of decision.
Thanks for passing by
Hmm.. Can't we just hit the emergency brakes and put the train on the alternate track with one person. Maybe the 5+1 will be saved. 😊 😊
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Helloooo there! my dear @oivas!
I wish that too 😄. But the decision has to be made. Sometimes you have to make the decision.
And I think the hard part is not making the decision, but carrying the burden.
I'm so glad you stopped by
Friend @jadams2k18 after reading your wonderful questions that in fact have a lot of validity to measure the specific behavior before a decision that could change the way you see things and even act, the first thing that came to my mind was this:
To be or not to be ... is the first line of a soliloquy of William Shakespeare's play, Hamlet
And with that line I leave my answer. before such a disjunctive
Greetings my good friend.
Hello @lanzjoseg! Would you believe me that I've never read Hamlet? I haven't even seen the movie. Yes, I've heard the famous phrase.
I'm sure your comment has an important meaning... But I can't see it yet...
Thanks for commenting
Thank you for the memo @jadams2k18. I would suggest to select a fat man from prison who is scheduled for a death punishment. He will be facing death anyway as justice need to be done, so it doesn't make much difference. No innocents will die.
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Sounds good. But... Will you kill the fat man yourself?
Thanks for passing by
I have not faced anything akin to your example, but I had a couple of experiences similar in that I had to choose to 'pull the plug' for my youngest brother and for my father.
How did I feel afterwards?
Not guilty. Just honoured that I had been able to make the decision which would save them from huge suffering.
As for your example: originally we are not told who the 5+1 are, so we cannot decide based on how we feel about them.
Would I choose to kill the one? Yes, I would. Would I feel guilty?
Why should I? The decision was forced on me and I had to decide to sacrifice someone....so, I might decide it makes sense for me to find the bastard who put me in this position and kill him/her (a thought...was that person you?)
I'm sorry you had to go through that. And I'm glad you saved them from more suffering.
It's a compelling reason why you shouldn't feel bad. But there are people who are more sensitive than others and may not be able to bear the burden of their decision. But the important thing is to survive it.
To know that it was the best decision you could have made at that moment and with that knowledge. And to know that you could have done it differently is not important. And of course, learning from experiences.
don't kill the messenger! 😁
That's a very difficult dilemma. I'm not sure what i would do. It reminded me of something else though.
People are starting to relate this sort of thing to smart cars:
Would you buy a smart car, if you knew that it was programmed to be a safe as possible; so, in a situation like yours,the smart car would decide to swerve into a brick wall and kill its passenger/driver, rather than running over 5 pedestrians.
Scary
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That would be like giving a monkey a gun.
I wouldn't trust my life to a smart car
Oooh! Hell no!
I think if I know that 5 people are going to die unless I change the track of the train to kill one person, then yes, I am still "guilty" of not saving those 5. I have no responsibility for whatever happens ONLY if I know nothing about it. Once I know that a certain action will cause a specific outcome, I do get some part of responsibility for what happens.
As for the question and the choice... It will probably sound immoral, but at this point I would chose 1 person that is dear and important to me over 5 strangers (unless that person asks me not to do it or I know for sure they wouldn't want me to do it). Which is another dilemma in itself.
I also think none of it is about guilt. It's not a matter of morality and "good or bad". One human life cannot be out-measured by 5 human lives, and we cannot put a price on human life in comparisons of amounts.
There are lots of people on earth. Lots of people die every day, and no one goes on mourning for them non-stop. Strangers, people who are not personally acquainted, don't go crying over those thousands of people who die every minute.
It's only when a large number of people dies at once that we suddenly feel shocked or sad. And, supposedly, we feel "sorry" for the dead. But I think it's not sorrow or great compassion that drives people to notice catastrophes that take away lives of many. I think it's mostly fear of death itself. Death becomes more noticeable that way.
Oh, and another thing... When people are in real-life situations where everything happens fast, they normally don't think. There is no time to think, and body reactions and instincts become more pronounced... People who are trained to deal with disasters and stressful situations will probably do something fast. Some people, when faced with something horrible, will simply "freeze" because of the adrenaline rush overwhelming them. So... This philosophical dilemma kind of shows us who we are when we discuss it and think about it... but the real us can truly reveal ourselves only when actually facing it. And I do hope that none of us ever will have to deal with something like this in practice. But this is a good exercise to remind us to live more consciously and be aware even of the smallest actions and decisions in our lives.
Thanks for your comment.
I agreed with you
But as I said in other comments, there are those who do have to make this type of decision: police, firefighters, rescuers, presidents, military.
In some part of their lives, they will face these situations and what I really think is that what weighs more is to live with the decision made.
Thanks for coming by
Hello there, @araksa-dragonkey!
Yeah. Lots of people die every day, and no one goes on mourning for them. That makes death more palpable.
But in extreme situations always the need of many overcomes the need of few.
Dear @JAdams2k18,
Thank You for the memo inviting to share my views about this, as usual I'll try to be brief x) (I said try!! xP)..Personally I would avoid at all costs to kill someone, no matter the number of people needed to be killed to save any other bigger or smaller number, I would choose killing myself if it was the solution to avoid taking the life of someone else, as some have already answered, but as others have also stated and very well, who knows what they would do if not in the situation, because to talk is easy but to actually do it, it's a totally different thingStill, from the teachings I follow, even if it was a very close family member or my closest friend, I would take their life and deal with the responsibility of my action and the mind f#$%ery that caries, if they were threatening my life or anyone else's life, if they were not capable of defending themself..Only if for the greater good, and it had to be very clearly understood..But this is just theory, practically there are almost always a solution at hand, we just don't manage to see it or don't have enough knowledge to understand it and how to implement it..Actually Mr Spock could go stick a finger in his bum-bum, Data would manage to find a solution xDPretty much what You need in the train situation is MacGyver, he as Data would find a solution, heck even I would try my best to reverse engineer the train console and stop it somehow..Or if not possible to save everyone, here we go, in a freaking killing spree, first the fat, then the five, and everyone on the train, turn back and inquire the one survivor on the other track about who did it, kill him and dedicate all time and resources to find the mastermind behind it, make him suffer a bit, kill him, and then commit suicide, there You go, next Hollywood film, there would be spectators outside it all and not related to any of it, to tell the story..Keep it up brother, I liked this article, it's thought provoking although the more time passes the more my opinion about the practical use of philosophy lowers, what we actually need is more practicality and less theory, still needed in one or other way but..Thank You for this, it might well be one of my last comments around here so.. ;)Wish You all the best, keep them coming..
Cy
Suuuup! @Cyberspacegod!! How are you, man!????
This could not be your last comment! YOu hear me????
Hang on! So... You're gonna kill them all???
You can use pentobarbital. Inject the fat man, in less than a minute, he'll die. He probably won't even feel the pinch because of how fat he is. So you convince him that your dog fell on the train track and when he crouches he will fall just because of his weight. Stopping the train and you will obviously be as far away as possible. So that nobody associates you with the fat one.
Yes... I've just watched an episode of Mary kills people.
A pleasure to read to you again.
Thanks for commenting
I'm good =)
It might actually be one of my last comments depending on a lot of variables outside myself.. Hanging, only in trees xDNah, no need for injections (although that specific substance was a very good idea, nice!!), there are always vital points, staffs, swords, bows, even plastic bags will do the trick.. ×.>It was a pleasure to read and reply ^^)(no need to thank brother) Cheers, have a good time ;)Killer alert! Killer alert!
Keep in touch
Shhh!!! Don't say it so loud!!
Ookkk
Don't worry, I'm just jokin', I don't want pain to be inflicted on everybody, just the majority x_D
Dear @cyberspacegod
What do you mean? Are you going to dissapear from Steemit? :(
Der @Crypto.Piotr,
It's a possibility, actually very probable that I go, not only from steemit but the entire internet and society, it is something yet to be decided upon, depending on a few external variables..As stated in some lost comment somewhere in the blockchain, not exactly in these words but, my life is like a snowball of movies that continues to grow and changes direction as fast as a blink of an eye, still, it 's just a big probability, hence my Bio (tired of being a target individual), as soon as my 7 year court case finally got to an end with me at least not ending up in prison, less than a moth after it, a whole new series of "scenes" happen and all seems so manufactured that I can't stop to see it as manipulation by the elites just to continue f#$%ing me up..No worries, I'll just make sure my kids stay well and also my mother who actually don't deserve but, it's still my mother so what can I do, and if needed I go in a journey with nothing beside a knife in the pocket, some small change for the start a few ropes and my old sleeping-bag, in search of a forest, mountain or somewhere isolated from civilization, the more animals around and less people the better..If so, I'll write a post with a bit more details (or maybe not, everything is so unsure for now, I don't even know how I'm so much at peace with all of it, maybe I'm just at the brink of exploding, hence the need to isolate myself.. I don't know brother..).All is good, it is what it must be (well my neighbours are probably of the opposite opinion, I'm listening to music, loud, all day long..)..Hope that everything is good with You and Yours ^^)Have a great day bro, all the best,Cy
Dear @cyberspacegod
I only realized a moment ago that I never had a chance to read your comment. Thank you for taking the time to reply.
That would be such a lose if you would be gone. You've been very supportive, mature and I value your support a lot.
I can only assume that you need some life changes.
I don't know if "more animals" is a good thing. But surely less people the better.
Good luck in your life journey. In case if I would not hear from you again - it really been real pleasure to engage with you and exchange ideas.
If you do, then please send me memo with link to this post.
ps. Would you consider delegating your SP to me for the time being? (until you will change your mind and come back to Steemit?). I could even pay some small fee to you. I'm "renting" some SP from few other guys and we've agreed that I would pay them monthly 1% of borrowed SP. That is more than I can receive back from as a curation rewards, however it does help me to reward other valuable content creators.
Think about it.
Yours
Piotr
Thank You dear Piotr,
I do need some changes in my life still, don't know anything for sure, about the animals, that would definitely be very good, cause animals never harmed me, except some cat scratches and friendly dog bites, all other animals even the beasts and feral ones never harmed me, humans otherwise, all the time, the closer the more harm done, so it would definitely be a very good thing to be surrounded by animals..As I said, don't know about anything for sure but I can say the same to You, it's been a pleasure brother.If I end up making the post I'll 'memo' You with it but I'm still trying to work around the option of leaving all and everything..I do appreciate the offer but am still trying to stick around and already delegated to @OCDB and have planed to delegate to @Smartsteem, also I will try to raise a bit more the SP before delegating to the last because I was a relevant part of Bokura no Digital World curation trail and didn't knew it, so I want to keep that going on, at least for now is what I have in mind, again I don't know anything and don't have the help I think needed, but keep fighting until exhaustion wins the battle or a big change is achieved..Anyway, thank You for Your words, the offer and pretty much everything..All the best to You and Yours, have a great day,Cy
Would just stay queit let things go the way they are going if I can't save both. Nobody deserves to live more than another, and It's even said that good people die early.
That is true too
I heard about that a long time ago: Bad people last longer than good people.
I wonder why is that?
Well, anyway, thanks for commenting
Bad people last probably because they are given more time to change, and good people die early because they can be corrupted if they don't die early.
Thanks for hosting me.
I also think that bad people think about their own survival constantly, whereas good people could even give their lives for their friends.
You're welcome
Tbat could be true. Bad people also assume people are bad so prepare for worst case scenario whiles good people go out each day hoping all will be good
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In apocalyptic movies, it's always the bad ones who survive.
Yeap
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What an excellent post. Beautifully thought out and extremely well written. I have worked in roles where I have had to make extremely hard decisions and many of my former colleagues still do today. What I can say from my own experience is most people don’t stop to consider allocation of priorities or resources when it’s down to patient numbers and hopes of meaningful recovery for those involved. I.e. do we devote time to someone who has no chance of meaningful recovery when five others could benefit from that attention and our resources and they do have a chance of recovery. The many or one in those types of cases...Interestingly for those accustomed to those types of decisions when they are watching a loved one with no hope of recovery they detach and accept the choices in relation to how staff allocate resources to others... essentially giving up hope outside of making last moments as comfortable as possible but also understanding the why’s and what’s of what is occurring throughout. For the average day to day person though.. it’s unpredictable. In regards to myself? Could I shove a family member on the tracks in hopes of saving others? Or a best friend? Dunno. In my experience we all behave unpredictably in unfamiliar intense moments where split second decisions have to be made. Morality tends to exercise itself through immediate impulse and normally it’s all thought about later. This was an awesome thought provoking post and it’s content like this that makes me wish my vote had more weight. Definitely clicking follow and looking forward to more content. Keep on steeming. :)
Thank you for your kind words, I appreciate them.
It must be hard to make those kinds of decisions you make on a daily basis.
I wanted to mention something, it also depends on the person, usually, when one sees a traffic accident here, many people ignore to avoid problems with the authorities and also because sometimes are vandals posing as an accident. But there are people who react differently, they stop to help the injured people, even knowing that they expose their lives. They are brave people whom I admire. I couldn't do that.
Thanks for coming by
From where I stand, I will never take the life of another person. It is a great sin before God and man. We can't give life and hence have no right to take it either.
There is no denying the fact that situations can arise that would put you in a position where your actions or inactions can lead to the loss of lives. When such situations do arise, our first instinct would be towards self preservation. We would lean towards saving our own asses first.
Call it what ever you want, I value my life and those of my loved ones.
Cheers
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I like the way you think
The religion factor, that also affects the outcome of this experiment. For those of us who respect God, we know that it is a sin to kill another human being.
I'm sure we'd give up our own life rather than a loved one's.
Thanks for commenting
I've heard of many variations of the test. I first heard it in relation to Batman. At the end of the day I think utilitarianism is tyrannical communist BS. Under utilitarianism I should be killing random healthy people like you & me to donate blood & organs to many dying people.
We shouldn't take mechanical decisions. I'd say be loyal and stick with your friends and loved ones. Maybe you should help someone like the next Einstein or something to change the world. Other than that loyalty and principles seems the best option IMHO.
Hello @d-zero,
I am not an expert in psychology, but I get the impression that utilitarianism is more oriented to the survival of the species, more than anything else.
I agree
I agree as well. Friends are the best.
Thanks for passing by
100% Agreed. This is the reason I'm so against it at most occasions. It could be like an ant colony or just what happened with communism in so many countries. You never know when is your chance to be crucified for the good of the whole. I find it extremely scary.
Now, I can see what you mean. Its scary
Los verdaderos dilemas éticos son los que obligana selccionar entre dos opciones éticamente válidas o bien éticamente no válidas.
Este que propones es un difícil dilema, pues en principio nadie quiere causar la muerte a otros., @jadams2k18
English
The real ethical dilemmas are those that t force you to to choose between two ethically valid or ethically invalid options.
This one you propose is a difficult dilemma, because in principle no one wants to cause death to others, @ Jadams2k18
It is correct @josegilberto, the experiment was proposed to refute those who defended the utilitarians, who defend that good actions are those in which you get more profit. But here also come into play principles, values, religions, feelings towards those who could die, so it will not depend on valuing only the option where there is more profit (saving the 5 people).
Thanks for commenting
I would likely leave the 5 to die if saving them would involve me killing someone else....even a fat man;)
Noooo... it's not fair! You have to save some else :P
I would go on the track die a hero lol
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You have to have big balls to do that :D
I have massive balls lol!!
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Must be hard to walk with fluency.
Sometimes you have to sacrifice for the people you care about and 1 life is better than 5.
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Hi @jadams2k18
Lovely click-bait title :) I felt for it right away :)
Very well said.
Initially probably everyone would say "I would safe 5 and sacrifice that one" but this decision is surely isn't as easy to make as one would think.
Interesting question. I don't know what I would do.
I think that most people would try to stop the train and therfore kill all those 5. But we would have a feeling that we tried our best to help them and we've failed.
Yours, Piotr
Hehehe... Thanks,
As Mr. Spock advises, it would be best to save as many people as possible. But everything changes if the person is a relative or a loved one.
I hadn't thought of that alternative. But I don't think there's enough time to stop the train.
It is most likely that one will be paralyzed thinking of the best option.
Thanks for passing by
Love your comments @jadams2k18 :)
Hola @jadams2k18 realmente lo ideal seria hacer el menor daño posible, si me encontrara en esta situación la verdad no sabria que hacer, porque igual alguien muere, indiferentemente si es un familiar o no alguien va a morir. Ahora si lo vemos del lado de la vida mato a 1 porque a la final igual morimos todos.
Hola @suanky!
Es dura la decisión, pero hay que tomar alguna. Supongo que son cosas como para prepararlo a uno en caso de presenciar este tipo de problemas. Estoy seguro que hay gente que en su trabajo tienen que tomar decisiones así de fuertes.
Supongo que el problema no es tomar la decisión en sí, sino vivir con ella.
Gracias por pasar
You should join this contest! https://partiko.app/freewritehouse/steemzuela-ventest-week-11-and-winner-announcement?referrer=wakeupkitty
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Thanks! I'll check that out 😄💕
Oh! Tough decision. Lol
I would try to kill no one if possible.
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But... You have to choose
Kill one for the rest then
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Thanks for commenting
You r welcome
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