"That's like saying it's okay to be racist because black people commit more crime on average"
No it's not it's like saying that. And that's because I have not said that is ok...
I simply gave a reason why such discrimination happens. Please, don't make up things I have not expressed to create and argument to attack (the strawman fallacy)
"These issues are never addressed by feminists, despite being very serious problems, definitely more so than not having enough women in STEM fields."
That is your assumption which seems to have no basis in facts. I don't think that you have actually read the end of my post.
Anyway, despite that feminism often pays attention to equality for men, it is normal that it is mostly focusing on equality for women. That's why it is called feminism. Different groups of people fight for different types of equality. Some mainly focus on equality for certain race or social group, some other focus on animal rights or rights of certain gender etc.
"At the very least, men and women are discriminated against roughly equally, just in different ways. But then it can hardly be called patriarchy, as neither gender really has the upper hand"
Please, actually read my post carefully. I will just copy what I already wrote above as an answer as it seems that you have not read it:
"Of course, besides being patriarchal our culture is also constructed around other forms of discrimination such as deep social and racial discrimination. In "Western" countries people in power are mostly white males who use their position of social and economical privilege to exploit lower social classes (social stratification and class violence) while discriminating all genders and races. That's one of the main reasons why men from lower classes are drafted to the army, etc."
To add. Discrimination towards men mostly comes from other men not from women.
But you say it is okay to discriminate against men by giving them longer sentences for the same crime because men commit more crime. Hence, the hypocritical feminism.
"That is your assumption which has no basis in facts." - No, it's not an assumption. Show me one feminist group that has ever campaigned against any of the issues that I mentioned. And the thing is, when men's rights groups do pop up, feminists like yourself call them sexists and shut down their events.
And I don't see how that last paragraph addresses my point about how patriarchy is a misnomer. If it's true that men are also discriminated against by the "patriarchy," then it's not a patriarchy.
"That is your assumption which has no basis in facts." - No, it's not an assumption. Show me one feminist group that has ever campaigned against any of the issues that I mentioned. And the thing is, when men's rights groups do pop up, feminists like yourself call them sexists and shut down their events."
Once again. Read the end of my article.
The problem with "men's rghts" groups is that they do not address the root causes of discrimination of men which is value system disorder, unsustainable gender roles or influence on society by small group of powerful men, etc. (exploitation and abuse towards men almost always comes from other men rather than women. Usually men are those who decide about social laws and policies).
Instead, the first thing they do is attacking feminists. Feminists are not the cause of discrimination towards men. Discrimination towards man has evolved through many centuries intensified by different factors (as mentioned before, such as social stratification, control of society by small group of powerful males etc). The "men's rights groups" seem to not be about the actual fight for equality of genders but they rather appear to be a group of angry men with hurt ego who try to attack feminists and falsely try to blame them for certain types of discrimination completely not related to feminism.
"But you say it is okay for men to be given longer sentences for the same crime. Hence, the hypocritical feminism"
I think that you may have some problems with cognition. Nowhere in my comments or post I said anything near to that. You are welcome to provide exact quotation showing where I said that...
I will just repeat once again. I simply gave a reason why such discrimination happens. Please, don't make up things I have not expressed to create and argument to attack (the strawman fallacy).
Btw, you used logical fallacy, so let me use mine. Some ad hominem for ya. I find it quite peculiar that you joined Steemit few hours ago and the first post you commented on was my post. I smell another anonymous keyboard warrior troll, just like the other guy above in the comment section.
I'll tell you what: let's debate this over Skype. That way we can get a lot more done in a lot less time. You can record it and post it to your blog. Just give me a twitter or reddit account and I'll direct message you my information.
I have no time to debate something over Skype. I already spend a lot of time here.
I'm giving you an opportunity to actually have an effective conversation, rather than this useless back-and-forth. If you really care about creating change, you have to convince people like me. You should take the olive branch. I'm willing to come forward and not hide behind a computer for the sake of creating greater understanding and positive change. Are you?
After all, these are the conversations that you trying to prepare people for with this post. Why wouldn't you set an example for such conversations?
"After all, these are the conversations that you trying to prepare people for with this post. Why wouldn't you set an example for such conversations?"
Please, do not use logical fallacy called "appeal to emotion".
"Are you?"
My identity is not anonymous here.
I'm not here to convince/change anyone. I just share the information and facts. It is up to people to read and explore and hopefully change their views.
This'll be my last post, but I just wanted to say that you are a perfect example of the hypocritical feminist. You keep calling me out for using supposed logical fallacies, when the very first thing you did in this entire thread was use an ad hominem fallacy.
You ask people to have conversations and to try and convince people, but you refuse to do so yourself. (I can only assume because on some level you know that your beliefs don't hold up when confronted face-to-face)
You list off all the discrimination against women in society, but won't mention any of the proven discrimination against men. And when these things are pointed out, you say that feminism is only supposed to focus on women's rights, which is not only contradictory to your own post, but also contrary to what most feminists claim-again, hypocritical.
You also use a straw man fallacy against men's rights groups, claiming that all they do is hate feminists, which is untrue. As I mentioned before, feminists have shut down men's rights events that had nothing to do with them, but were only trying to raise awareness of men's issues.
I don't even necessarily disagree with a lot of things in your post, but no rational person can take this seriously when you ignore the problems that men also face, and then proceed to demonize the men's rights groups that are trying to address them.
"This'll be my last post, but I just wanted to say that you are a perfect example of the hypocritical feminist. You keep calling me out for using supposed logical fallacies, when the very first thing you did in this entire thread was use an ad hominem fallacy"
I clearly stated that I'm going to use ad hominem before using it. There is no hypocrisy in honest informing someone about using logical fallacy, so your current argument/logical fallacy is invalid (you just used type of ad hominem called "appeal to hypocrisy")
"You ask people to have conversations and to try and convince people, but you refuse to do so yourself. (I can only assume because on some level you know that your beliefs don't hold up when confronted face-to-face)"
Nowhere in my post I said that I try to convince anyone. This post is meant to be "an informational bomb" as help for anyone who wants to debate thiss issues with anyone. I clearly stated that, I'm not here to convince/change anyone. I just share the information and facts. It is up to people to read and explore and hopefully change their views."
I also said that I don't have time for Skype as I already spend enough time on Steemit. I mentioned in the post that I created Steemit "feminism" channel. Users are welcome to join it and have debates.
"You list off all the discrimination against women in society, but won't mention any of the proven discrimination against men. And when these things are pointed out, you say that feminism is only supposed to focus on women's rights...."
This post is about discriination of WOMEN, not men. FEMINISM IS ABOUT DISCRIMINATION OF WOMEN NOT MEN. IF SOMEONE CREATES FEMINIST POST/ARTICLE, IT MEANS THAT THEY FOCUS ON THIS TYPE OF DISCRIMINATION. Same as activists figthing against discrimination of Native American (as an example) focus on this particualr ethnic group, not on Irish immigrants.
Word Feminism comes from French "feminisme" (womanhood) so it refers to women not men. It is not a priority of feminist activism to focus on discrimination of men. Although, like I said laready, many feminists point out or fight against discrimination of men too - AS I MENTIONED 3 TIMES ALREADY, THAT I GAVE EXAMPLES OF IT IN THE END OF MY ARTICLE. THE PART WHICH YOU PERSISTENTLY REFUSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE.
"which is not only contradictory to your own post, but also contrary to what most feminists claim-again, hypocritical."
Read the above answers in this comment.
"You list off all the discrimination against women in society, but won't mention any of the proven discrimination against men. And when these things are pointed out, you say that feminism is only supposed to focus on women's rights, which is not only contradictory to your own post, but also contrary to what most feminists claim-again, hypocritical"
Like I explained above, there has been no single men's right group which actualyl focused on fighint for men's rights by focusing on the actual root causes of the discrimination (social-systemic issues). They instead all seem to have focused on attacking feminists for different reasons, such as protecting patriarchal traditions of male/female roles (men work, women cook and breed etc), their right to objectification (using fallacious "it's man's nature" argument), etc.
"I don't even necessarily disagree with a lot of things in your post, but no rational person can take this seriously when you ignore the problems that men also face, and then proceed to demonize the men's rights groups that are trying to address them".
Refer to my other answers in this comment.