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RE: Is there more to life than this? Join the Alpha Course for a share of the SBD from this series of posts

in #life7 years ago

Hello @nextgen622!
I would really love to participate as the subject is of real interest to me and I do have some big life questions that I am still looking for answers!
I am from Mauritius and i am 34 years old , married and have 1 daughter of 3 yrs old.
About the video, i was really surprised with the number of hours we are really living if we live up to 70 years...wow most of our time we are either sleeping, eating, travelling, watching tv and now on the net also...and only about 570000 hours left to live, now if we take out the time when we are still baby till we grow , that's really little time indeed!

The one question that I would ask god is this : In all the religious books, be it The Bible, The Torah or The Quran, whenever some tribes were making bad and going against god will, they were striked down by god. It is written that many civilization were exterminated with either some plague, or floods, fire etc...There were always some miracles happening. But where are these miracles nowadays? Why we no more see god coming to rescue all these people who are suffering in so many parts of the world? Did miracles only happened before and not anymore?
That would certainly be my question.

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Good question.

It is a very good question and if you read the answers you will see I gave a very honest answer and the "person" who is hosting this entire thing didn't give ANY answer whatsoever except for "Yes keep up voting our posts and stay tuned" hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
NEED I SAY MORE?
No the truth is self evident.

Blessings to all~*~

I've just checked your answer mate, full of honesty as usual. You are right about the 'answers' , i am sure there is no one who will be able to give answers to all the questions that we have. They will all avoid and change subject.
Respect bro!

I dont pretend to have all the answers. However I know how to question and research and critically think for my self. I don't live stuck in dogma and by the rules of teachers.
I have liberated advise if nothing else.
Thanks for the reply.
Blessings~*~

Hi again mate, sorry I haven't been able to respond to your comment until now. And I'm unable to adequately address your question in a few words. I've had to rush through some answers and have missed many comments due to the volume of comments. It takes a long time to respond in some circumstances, and also taking care of two young children and work occupy a lot of the time. The below is mostly copied from my response to @quinneaker

I'm definitely not doing these posts for money. If it was for the votes and money, then there are a lot more topics that would be much easier to talk about.

With relation to the question of suffering, I didn't want to answer it now, because of the following reasons:

  1. Suffering is a very personal and emotive subject. No matter what I say, it's not going to help those who go through the suffering.
  2. There is a specific video later in the series that discusses this further, so I was waiting to get to that video before discussing.

But since I'm here now, I'll briefly answer to the best I can, but it's not going to be satisfactory when suffering is involved. OK, so here goes:
One of the reasons there is so much suffering in the world, wars, child trafficking, rape etc. is that God gives people free will, and all these horrible things are usually a result of evil choices that people made.

You also made reference to tribes being wiped out because their evil had reached a certain point and they were going against God's ways. Yes, that was true in the past where in some situations the evil people did were piling up and out of control. Some people ask why does God wipe out and destroy all these tribes? And others that ask why are there so much suffering in the world? Regardless of whether God intervenes and punishes tribes when the evil gets out of hand, or allows them to go on with their free will choices, there are always going to be people who go on questioning and are unsatisfied, often due to their own experiences of the world.

Anyway, hope you will be able to stick with us throughout the series and continue to contribute great questions/observations to the discussion.

I really understand who it's hard to reply to all the questions my friend! I'm really glad that you came back with such a clear answer, really appreciate your response!
You are right when you said that there will be always people questioning and those unsatisfied, but i really think this is a great thing too or else every one would be a 'yes man' and life would be dull!
I'm looking forward to follow the series my friend! And you can count on me for contributing on the discussions!

Hi again mate. Sorry I missed your comment here. As you can see, I try to respond to questions as best as I can. It takes a long time in some circumstances, and also taking care of two young children and work occupy a lot of the time.
I'm definitely not doing these posts for money. If it was for the votes and money, then there are a lot more topics that would be much easier to talk about.

With relation to the question of suffering, I didn't want to answer it now, because of the following reasons:

  1. Suffering is a very personal and emotive subject. No matter what I say, it's not going to help those who go through the suffering.
  2. There is a specific video later in the series that discusses this further, so I was waiting to get to that video before discussing.

But since I'm here now, I'll briefly answer @progressivechef to the best I can, but it's not going to be satisfactory when suffering is involved. OK, so here goes:
One of the reasons there is so much suffering in the world, wars, child trafficking, rape etc. is that God gives people free will, and all these horrible things are usually a result of evil choices that people made.

I'll answer more directly to @progressivechef's commenT separately.

Blessings

Its ok, I am well aware of what its like to have many responsibilities. I have 3 blood children and 20 people living in my community of which I am basically a father for as well as business and other projects.

Yes I totally agree. We have free will as do all beings.
So now the question is what do we do with that? Regardless of if anyone believes in god or not we still have fee will.

Yes suffering is real and maybe its just part of life, no one likes it yet there answers, there are solutions.

Again ideals would solve this. If we lived according to our ideals even if we had some suffering we would not waver in our ideals, we would find a solution, we would adapt, we would evolve.

Blessings~*~

Hi, I had the same question for a long time until the pastor that I was going to see at his home church pointed out that neither the Bible nor God promises us a life of ease and non-suffering.

The Bible actually warns us that, as believers and followers of Christ/God, we would suffer and face tribulations...that our faith would be tested, just like Jesus' faith was tested when Satan wanted to tempt him into going against God and failed...all the suffering that we go through today is nothing in comparison to what Jesus went through to ensure that we could earn forgiveness by allowing Himself to be sacrificed to pay for our sins.

As for miracles...I have to say there are miracles around you every single day, you just have to look for them. The birth of a baby, the beauty in a sunset or sunrise, trees that are hundreds of years old and standing strong, us still being alive after all we've been through...these are all miracles...at least to me.

Hello my friend, thanks so much for your great input! It's true that we are not promised a life of ease, we all have to work hard to be successful.
But I would still say that sufferings are sufferings, be it before or these days!
The daily miracles is one thing and has always been here, but i can't understand why god does not come to the rescue of those having so much sufferings from tyrants! Like the ones in Syria for example, simple citizens being killed, babies, young children, what did they do wrong!?

I've asked myself, and a few pastors I know, those same questions and its a very difficult one to answer because so many people want to blame God. We all seem to forget that God isn't the one starving, assaulting, selling, etc... those children, its us human beings...they are choosing to do those things.

I'm not saying that there aren't days when I wonder how much suffering is enough? "When will God get fed up with it and begin the trials and tribulations, are we already in that stage or are they still to come?" and "When will the rapture happen?" are questions I've asked myself a lot.

God doesn't want us to just accept things as they are...He tells us to be like children and children question every single thing. He has a plan or schedule of events, or whatever you'd like to call it, but we don't know what it is.

The Bible gives us hints/clues as to what is coming and when but nobody knows the whole plan except God.

Great comments @frostyamber! Thank you for your contribution to the discussion. Would love for you to join in the discussions in the second post here too.

Hi, input here, God does still do miracles, have heard many such stories and experienced more than one myself (posted here see my blog if wish)) however God has an overall plan for humanity which currently consists of allowing mankind to experience the consequences off living life apart from Him, so the question can be answered once and for all.. so He lets the suffering occur, but the day will shortly come when the question has been fully answered and He will put a complete end to it, as all will willfully agree to live according to His life promoting ways, the abundance of peace knowing no end..

You said:

currently consists of allowing mankind to experience the consequences off living life apart from Him

This seems to be a result of God's first human disobeying his rules of not eating the forbidden fruit. Generations of people need to suffer because God failed to make an obedient human. Why is it that his first humans already were a failure? Then he had to wipe out entire cities because they were again failures. But the Bible says God is perfect. How can perfection create failure? It just doesn't make sense to me. Instead of KILLING his children, why not simply show them (teach them) as any good parent would do, right from wrong? Inspire them the same way he inspired the authors to write their stories! Would that not be a much BETTER way to control evil?

Great questions @happyme. Thank you for joining and contributing to the discussion. I believe part of the answer to your question resides in knowing the heart of God for his creation. At the core of this is love. Each one of us desires to love and be loved. Without free will, it is impossible to have true love. So in order for us to truly choose on our own initiative to love or reject God, we need to have free will. When we have free will, we can choose to obey or disobey, love or reject.

This is a good answer. However, it still seems to me that you have a choice to obey out of free will, or disobey and be punished. That is not really freedom. True freedom is to be respected either way.

Thanks. I'm not sure if you have children, but this became more clear to me after having my first child three years ago. When it comes to loving my children, the concepts of love, trust and obedience are closely tied together. Especially when they are young, like now, they don't know what's good for themselves. My son wants to play with scissors, but I tell him it's bad for him, and if he doesn't trust me and disobeys, he will either receive the consequences of hurting himself through playing with the scissors, or receive my discipline because I love him and don't want to see him hurt. That's a bit like our relationship with God.

Freedom isn't just about doing whatever you want, because there are consequences to everything. When we disobey God's command to love one another, our relationships become fractured, or when we disobey the law, and choose to drink and drive, we might crash the car and hurt others.

I know if my son rejected me and disowned me as his father, I would be really hurt, and as a result he would miss out on the best I intend for him. This is sort of similar to when we choose to reject God.

Hope this makes sense, and look forward to continuing the discussion throughout the series. :)

Thanks for the response. I understand what you are trying to convey, however, as a parent, I have learned that there is more than 1 way to achieve a desired outcome. For example, you gave the scenario of the scissors:

he will either receive the consequences of hurting himself through playing with the scissors, or receive my discipline because I love him and don't want to see him hurt.

As a loving parent, we need to make sure we permit our children to experience life and learn at a rate that is appropriate to them. In the case of scissors, I don't see punishing a child for being curious as a smart alternative because that teaches them that they are stupid and not capable of making wise choices. We are now seeing the results of parents over-protecting their children. I suggest that a better alternative to punishment is diversion. Give your children scissors that are appropriate for their age instead. Or simply put the dangerous scissors away where the child can't reach it. Or supervise the use of the scissors. No need for punishment! Might is right is not smart parenting. It is a cop-out and an attempt at taking a short-cut that often creates other problems.

Let me make it perfectly clear that there is no one size fits all as far as a parenting guide goes. What works for one child may backfire for another, so that is why children don't come with an owner's manual. I am making generalizations above and want to be clear that each child has different needs and has to be treated as an individual. I was very fortunate that I rarely (that I can remember) had to resort to punishing my children. There was one time where I punished my daughter (and I resent having done that to this day because I'm sure if I tried harder I could have found a better solution). I can't think of any other instance where I punished either of my children, and guess what? They are both mature and healthy adults that have learned respect and compassion. They are not wild and crazy out-of control people.

So speaking from real-life personal experience, I can tell you that human beings have the capacity to learn without being punished. Yes, there are some who's minds are not functioning the same as the average and those will require special handling, but generally, children want to please their parents because they want to earn their love. To be fair, parents must also earn the love of their children. It is not a right. God, as well, has no right to demand love. It just doesn't work that way; love is not something that can be forced! EVERYONE must earn love and respect.

That's very good parenting advice. I agree diversion techniques is the best way to go. I hardly ever punish my son either. When I discipline, it's usually not allowing him to play with a favorite toy or something similar. You sound like a great parent. That's a good point in the example of scissors. However, in my opinion, in any kind of environment, whether in the home, school, workplace or society, rules and laws, having appropriate boundaries are always necessary.

I totally agree with you that love is not a right and needs to be earned. God never demands love or forces anyone to love him. That's why he gives that free will, and much of the suffering in this world are direct consequences of us choosing not to follow God's ways. God also allows us to reject him, but we miss out on the best he intends for us.

Final point I would like to make is that God has already earned our love by creating amazing beauty in the world and universe, and the ultimate love is that he was willing to come into his own creation to die in our place. That's what I believe anyway, and we can discuss more if you have questions/doubts on the evidence around the crucifiction of Jesus and historicity around Jesus' life etc. But we'll get around to it in future videos.

Thanks again for this discussion. It's been very interesting to hear your views, and I look forward to further discussions. :)

I don't believe free will beings exercising such would constitute a failure.. God wanted other brings who would love Him out of their free will, otherwise it's not real love at all but the programmations of a robot..

What you call killing is not really such, He is simply exchanging their physical bodies with their eternal Spirit ones, exchanging one location for another.. as all knowing He knows who have chosen Him these are ushered into their eternal home with Him those who haven't into an eternity apart from Him. Time and manner of death Is not really relevant, this life is simply about that decision, no one leaves this Earth without that decision being set in them.

This answer makes it even more confusing! Are you saying that murder is not really a crime because we are simply releasing a trapped spirit from their bodies?

No, that the creator of all has the right to judge lives, the ordered killings in the Bible were against thoroughly wicked societies whose paths were sealed.. and again "killing" is simply an exchanging of bodies and locations, nobody really dies.

Right, so if I determine someone is lost and is totally evil, I can justify killing them? After all, I am helping God sort things out. This is why we have so many religious wars!

There are things written in the Bible that should never have been put there. Human minds are not able to discern the truth from those writings and it was a mistake to include them.

The Bible is clear we shall not kill, that right to judge a life is reserved solely for the Creator. Religious wars are products of other faiths, one who kills in the name of God does not follow the teachings of the Bible.

Hi @wilx. I have just posted my first reply to this post and look forward to joining in the discussion. Having read your comments to @progressivechef about Gods overall plan I need to ask you how you know this to be so? How can you have any idea as to what a god is thinking? Have you been told this by god or by another believer? I must tell you I'm an athesist and therefore have no belief in a God Plan of any religion. I would be interested to hear your views.

If there is a God who loves His creation than it would make sense that He would communicate with them, christians believe He has revealed Himself, His ways and plans in the book we call the Bible.. it is a lot to discuss as to why we believe there is a creator and why christians are the ones who have it right but a good place to start is the Resurrection, Christianity stands or falls on it, a good resource discussing the evidence for it's validity is the book The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel.

Thank you for the reply @wilx. It seems to me that the Christian God you are describing is the same one who advocates ethnic cleansing, infanticide and commits mass murder in the Bible. Why would anyone want to use a creature like that as a role model? As for the Resurrection - there is no evidence for it apart from the Bible. This is a very unstable foundation to build a faith upon.

Just will add for now awaiting the rest of the series is that most historians believe Jesus existed, thus the question of the cruxifiction and Resurrection come into play.. the book I mentioned covers all these bases.

I would question your statement that most historians believe Jesus existed - all the evidence for the Jesus of the bible is based on heresay. There is no physical evidence of him actually ever being a real person. The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel - There are counter arguments in the book The Case Against The Case for Christ by Robert M. Price (here)

These rebuttals to Strobel's book are usually biased with the main argument usually being Strobel's experts are christians so can't b trusted. Never mind that they are christians because of the evidence.. haven't seen much legitimacy in most of their arguments in the attempts against the evidence presented, best to examine it all with an objective a mind as possible and draw own conclusion.

Welcome @maninayton! Thank you for joining and contributing to the discussion. That's a great question. Please join us through the rest of the series, and hopefully some of your questions will be answered.

Hello @nextgen622 and thank you for the welcome. I look forward to some stimulating conversations with you and others.

The quote about The day will shortly come is an interesting one. I've heard it from my parents, my parents have heard it from their parents, and my grand parents have heard it from their parents and it goes on and on!
Now my daughter hears it from me...

Hi @progressivechef! Welcome! Thank you for joining.
WoW, Mauritius, such a beautiful place to be living, and dream holiday destination for many.
You are exactly the same age as me. I also turned 34 in June this year. I have a son who's also 3 years old and also a daughter who's 3 months old.

That's a great question. Please join us through the rest of the series and hopefully some of your questions will be answered. Once again, thank you for your contribution. Really glad to have you here. :)

Hello @nextgen622, i'm so glad to read from you! hahah quite a lot of similarities between us!
I'm so happy that you put up such a great post where we are all discussing as everyone has different point of view!
Thanks so much!

You're welcome mate. I'm really glad you could join and contribute your point of view to the discussion. Look forward to chatting and discussing further when you have more time. Take care. :)

Hi @progressivechef I've just put up episode two of the series. Hope you could join us again over there.

Oh yes I've seen it but not yet gone through it my friend. I will check it out shortly for sure.

The reason is because all the "holy texts" are only stories. They are propaganda. They are DESIGNED and actively USED to control the masses.

I would further add that everywhere where there is religion practice going on, there is always fights going on, hatred on each other, never can we see peace.
And in places where there is humanity reigning, it's only peace and people live so happily together without judging anyone.
Too many stories being made to fool the masses.

Exactly!

I have lived without religion for my whole life and respect nature and life it self FAR more than all the religious people I know.

I founded, built and run the most sustainable organization in the entire USA and I did that not because of some dogma but because of true reverence for life it self and a true desire to help people.

I don't need to waste my time trying to convert people to my beliefs.

Just shows you who others are in comparison....