I'm not here to refute predestination. I myself believe in predestination. But how exactly does it work? Is it unconditional and before we were even born or had done anything good or evil, as Calvinism teaches? Or is it conditional and based on faith as Scripture teaches? That's the real question at stake.
You are viewing a single comment's thread from:
In that while we were yet sinners, He died for us. that makes it unconditional. But he also came not but unto the lost sheep of Israel, even those that were not yet of the flock. That makes it pre-destind.
His sheep hear His voice and follow his call, bearing good fruit, because they know and love Him. He that says "I know him", but keeps not His commandments is a liar.
True faith will make you keep His commandments. True faith produces works. Even works as dramatic as being about to sacrifice your own child.
Do you keep His commandments? Jesus said give EVERYTHING you have to the poor and then come and follow Me. Have you done that yet?
Very nice comeback! Honestly, I did. I had accumulated a lot of worldly possessions during my 12 years in the Army, while I was in the church, and pursuing the "American Dream". But then, after reading the bible for myself, I had some experiences that changed all that. I stopped eating unclean things. Started keeping the Sabbath. Sold everything that I could, gave a lot away, and the only things I still own are what is of necessity at the moment. Once my kids are out, I plan to adopt a nomadic lifestyle, hopefully completely off the grid
That's all great but you can't earn your salvation. I hope you understand that. As James 2:10 states, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."
Yes, that's where grace comes in. Nobody can earn salvation, its a gift given graciously to some of us sinners. The lost sheep, that really have always been His from the beginning. So when He calls, His sheep hear. And his sheep return to Him, and come to know and love Him. It is because they love Him, and desire to be closer still, that they keep His commandments. Salvation cant be earned, that's the whole point.
As long as you get it because I doubt you still get it. You seem to think that grace is only offered to those who "love" God or those who keep most of Hi commandments and fall short in a few places here and there. That's not how it works. To say that's where grace comes in reduces Christianity to a religion like Islam. Every single religion teaches grace and forgiveness in the same manner. What makes Christianity unique is the fact that salvation in Christianity is by grace alone through faith alone apart from our works and performance.
Not what I'm saying at all. Read the books of Moses and read the prophets, and the parables of the Messiah before attempting to figure out what salvation entails.