I've been worrying about the centralization of PAL as soon as I realized the implications. The thing was, a few days ago, I didn't know what it really meant. I didn't know if it meant that they could do something that might cause the coin to instantly devalue...or if they could censor in what ways.
What they could do with their front end. I thought that perhaps whatever they chose to do would probably be way off. Until then, maybe PAL would be a good way to earn. And whatever changes happened, they'd probably be slow, right?
Well, we're perhaps seeing the first steps...and it's a doozy...
INTRODUCING PAL MUTES!
Some dick apparently told Gandalf the Grey to die, and that he would kill him. I personally don't think that's acceptable talk at all, and personally hate when people tell people to die, or kill themselves, or that they're going to kill them. But...it's the internet...it happens...and some people are psychotic or sociopaths or whatever.
Everyone knows this isn't acceptable behavior...but no one knew the consequences. No one knew that suddenly PAL would decide that certain actions could get you "muted" on PALnet in different ways.
I can't defend this idiot. I never was that good at playing devil's advocate. I can't defend someone telling someone I actually kinda like that they're going to kill them.
But see, that's the problem with censorship and other things, isn't it? It's not like they enforce the rules against people that don't deserved it too often. At least at the start. It always starts with the ones that are the hardest to defend.
That's what birthed the saying "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," which apparently was written by historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall, according to this page.
Of course, I don't even wanna defend the right of this ass clown to threaten people on the chain. I also can't defend PAL for enforcing rules that didn't exist yesterday, creating consequences out of thin air, and making it so that suddenly the centralization is very real.
What other rules are they gonna pull out of their ass? What other consequences?
People need clear rules. People need to know what the consequences are. They need to know how to appeal decisions. They need to know who the fuck is inn charge of deciding who receives those consequences.
I just staked close to 500 PAL since I started using it...and now I'm wondering if that was a mistake. I also have orders in to buy more PAL if the price goes down...and I have to wonder if that's a mistake.
I still have more posts coming to payout...including this one...that will earn PAL.
I don't wanna defend some idiot's right to threaten people...if he was serious with that threat. Maybe he just has anger management issues. I don't fucking know. I know he has a bot following him that threatens to flag anyone that even replies to him.
What I do want though is to use a social network that isn't run as shittily as all the others. There need to be clear rules. There need to be guidelines on how they are enforced. There need to be second chances, for all the people that aren't total dickweeds, and maybe struggle every day with their internal demons and their anger. There need to be clear guidelines on the enforcement of the rules and how long the person has to live under the consequences. If this asshole, or some one in the future that ends up under the same consequences decides that they're gonna try to be nicer, how long until they could possibly get them reversed? Who decides that? Will they define a tribunal? Or just a bunch of shadow workers that we have no names for?
Same shit...different platform.
This is the first step. The first enforcement. There will be others. Gradually they will define more and more rules. They will decide what is and is not allowed. And gradually less and less will be allowed. But their first step already declared that they don't have to tell us what the rules are before they decide to enforce them. We're supposed to just know. The rules of what is and is not acceptable in society.
But then, there's a difference between what's generally not acceptable, and what influences the money you earn, and what gets you in trouble on some internet website.
So, this is the new reality of PALnet. What's next? What's for tomorrow?
An auto-da-fé of the Spanish Inquisition and the execution of sentences by burning heretics on the stake in a market place. Wood engraving by Bocort after H.D. Linton (source)
Used under CC BY 4.0 License
It's a community coin, so yeah, be good with the community and you'll be okay. The rules are subject to community governance. People not cool with that don't have to participate.
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They did say it was an extreme case...
Also I don't think it's as bad as the way censorship happens on Steem - I end up self-censoring - for example I can't make negative comments about certain anonymous Whales on Steem for fear of being flagged to oblivion.
I know this example is different to the case you're talking about, but maybe it's necessary to have a small executive group wielding large amounts of SP (PP?) enforcing standards in order to prevent overt Whale abuse and then the majority self-censoring.
I'd rather a group of diverse voluntarists wielding this kind of power rather than anonymous lone millionaires.
I take your point about what the rules are not being overt, but its early days and this doesn't necessarily mean things are going to get worse.
There are extensive guidelines about what constitutes abuse on the PAL discord server. Maybe that's something the PAL crew could improve on - they're Discord-centric and the rules they live by aren't communicated effectively outside!
More like intimidation than censorship. But that's kinda how everyone is taught to follow laws, fear. Steem is messed up though. Because the whales abuse their stake to flag people that piss them off, no one speaks out against them, except those that aren't afraid...yet.
When I'm working on a site, long before it's ready to launch, I work on the rules, the TOS, the privacy policy, etc. Those are integral to a site. It worries me that they didn't do that. But...tbh the site looks kinda half done. It's a quick rebrand of Steemit's Condenser.
But, after their second post, I'm a little less worried about PAL. Though I'm sure their rules will evolve over time. Tomorrow's extreme case may be just another step.
What concerns me more now is people's reactions to my concerns. Maybe I'm just worrying over nothing. It might be years before PAL censorship gets bad, if ever. But the fact that so many were saying things like "if you don't like it, leave" worries me.
If they're saying things like that they don't understand the 'spirit of PAL' - which is more 'if you don't like it, come and discuss it and we'll explain it and find a way to adapt and move forwards together'.
Things can always get worse, and usually they do. I'll keep a weather eye on PAL. This is like spotting a tornado in the distance to me.
WARNING: IF YOU REPLY TO THIS ACCOUNT YOU WILL BE FLAGGED, YOUR REP HARMED AND ALL OF YOUR REWARDS REMOVED. DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THE TRASH. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
I'm quite relaxed about it - the rules have been pinned in the PAL discord server for two years.
Leaving individuals to coordinate 'policing' just seems to leave wealthier abusers free to do what they like.
I'll give this system a go!
We can always move on and create our own if it doesn't work out - or a better first step might be to take it up with the PAL lot in Disord first of course!
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I really look forward to thousands of communities forming on Steem, as PAL has pioneered. People aren't clones, and PAL prolly should target a specific audience, and folks that think threatening comments are appropriate prolly aren't that audience. There is such an audience, though, and once they have communities that suit them, PAL will prolly have to deal with their disruptions a lot less.
Unfortunately I think such people like to prey on others, so this is the kind of community that suits them! It just requires constant vigilance on the part of the rest of us.
It just requires vigilance and active management - I think muting is effective - it's not permanent and it's their choice whether they want to act appropriately.
Well, there's going to be uncensored communities, insofar as it's possible, sooner or later. PAL can run it's community as it likes, and I'm completely in favor of that. I'm not prone to violent threats, but am awfully capable of making folks wish I could be muted. I'll have to keep an eye out to ensure the radical ideas and criticism I invite and emit don't cause me to have to censor myself.
I won't last long if I do.
Yea it seems like some people can't handle zero censorship and zero accountability. I personally kind of like the idea that voice is using... kyc style. Does the person have an introduction post?
On the PAL side though, I haven't had a chance yet to see the mute in action. Is it like on Steemit where it collapses it, but you can clearly see that it was there and can expand it? I suppose it will be interesting to see how the community reacts to this.
Could you elaborate a bit on PAL centralization? Do only a few own a large majority?
I don't really know the full details behind it. Someone created the PAL token, and certain people have control over the front-end. I'm not sure if they have made it fully clear who is in charge of what.
As to the coin, those involved in the development have gotten quite a bit, and there was a drop where people with Steem Power can get some, but we all can buy in if we want, and then determine how the PAL is distributed with what we Stake.
There are a few comments by the person mentioned in the post I linked:
https://www.palnet.io/community/@nopal4u/nopal4u-guidelines-1-0
You can look at the same post on a front-end like SteemPeak:
https://steempeak.com/community/@nopal4u/nopal4u-guidelines-1-0
They don't collapse. They don't even show.
The whitepaper lists the team and can be found here https://steemit.com/minnowsupport/@minnowsupport/palcoin-launch-a-revised-whitepaper-and-token-launch-by-the-minnow-support-project
That refers to the Global Mute, each platform on SCOT can individually set an account that when it mutes an account on the STEEM chain, will provide the same restrictions, but to only that platform.
Yes, it will be run under the rules of those in charge. This should be no surprise. Those in power will decide as it comes along what constitutes hate speech and what is spam. The cool thing about it? We dont have to partake if we dont like it it.
It's all voluntary. :)
I did not expect that tbh, but it's something different at least and it's not like there won't be other platforms where people can read them or reward them with other coins if they so want. :shrug:
It's different from Steem...but it feels a lot like the old behemoths.
The text will still be on Steem...they will just have reduced visibility and reduced earnings...the same things that people are having a problem with Twitter and Facebook and YouTube over.
It's not like I'm a radical. I'm not completely against all censorship. A lot of people actually don't like a complete lack of censorship. They don't like people telling them to fuck off and die. They don't like Nazis. They don't like all sorts of things. There should be places where people can decide what the rules should be...and places where there's absolutely no censorship...but I think when you suddenly create rules and enforce them retroactively...that damages the value of a place...which happens to be centered around a coin that only has value because people say it does.
Maybe I'll reexamine where my buy-ins are and move them down a bit.
Maybe they just want a place for pals. ;D
The big problem is that people can't go without very clear rules that have been set. They are simply not able to make adult, rational decisions - so there will always be an instance that will have to set the rules for them. Decentralization doesn't work, because people have never learned to take their own responsible decisions. Definitely not when money and (especially) power play a big role.
Right from the start, I realized Palnet was just a SteemIt-to-be. All I needed to do was look at the list of the largest stakeholders.
Everything is subjective, what is accepted by who depends on a personal point of view...
Personally, I always make the same mistake again: I believe there are some things are common ethics, shared by everyone. Very naive. Again, when money and power are involved, ethics are worthless to a lot of people
I think that a community should be allowed to govern their little space on the internet, yes it can become a vacuum and echo chamber through censorship but it should still be via the consensus of the community, they want to preserve certain guidelines. If you volunteer to it and you break it you're out, it should be that simple.
Yeah, there should be different communities out there with different "community standards" of governance, if that's the community they want. Of course, it's always the people in charge that really choose, and then the members have to decide if they are gonna leave and possibly lose most of their friends they made there. In the case of PAL, it may only be a slight decrease in engagement, due to stake ensuring that those involved in PAL try to curate PAL posts.
PAL has responded since my post. Said a few things I wish they had said when they made the post about "muting". Of course, I don't know how normal people are supposed to magically know what rules from their discord apply to their front-end.
Of course, my main problem from the start has been their enforcement of rules that no one knew existed, using a punishment no one knew existed. And now I also have a problem with them thinking that people are supposed to know that some rules from a discord that some may have never been in may apply to a new front-end. Not all the rules apply either. We're also supposed to gleam some meaning from their name and Latin motto.
Guess every asshole on Steem has to be weary that he may cross some line that we're not really sure about where it is yet.
The big problem is that people can't go without very clear rules that have been set. They are simply not able to make adult, rational decisions - so there will always be an instance that will have to set the rules for them. Decentralization doesn't work, because people have never learned to take their own responsible decisions. Definitely not when money and (especially) power play a big role.
Right from the start, I realized Palnet was just a SteemIt-to-be. All I needed to do was look at the list of the largest stakeholders.
Everything is subjective, what is accepted by who depends on a personal point of view...
Personally, I always make the same mistake again: I believe there are some things are common ethics, shared by everyone. Very naive. Again, when money and power are involved, ethics are worthless to a lot of people
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https://www.palnet.io/community/@nopal4u/a-thought-on-consequences-vs-censorship
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