I said that if you eat EXCESS CARBS, it is worse for you than eating excess fat, because it gets stored in the internal organs, as visceral fat, rather than in the flab, as excess fat gets stored.
No you didn't. Here is what you said.
I could rant on and on about how starch is responsible for most disease in the Western world - Wheat, Rice, Potatoes - flour, pasta, pizza.
BIG difference. Those things you mentioned aren't bad either, just like heavily processed versions of them are. BIG difference.
You were saying starch was the cause, you weren't saying overconsumption of starch was, and if you were.. How can you really l say that when people don't even eat that much starch? They're eating too much meat and dairy.. How can you miss that? I won't deny in many cases that people are also consuming too much corn syrups and table sugars and crap like that, but once again.. Big difference between the chemical toxic versions and natural fruits and vegetables..
EXCESS carbs get converted to FAT IN THE LIVER.
Excess of any caloric type of nutrient from fat to protein to carbs all are converted to fat like that, what's your point? That's a sign of over consumption, not of any problem with any specific nutrient.
Sorry. Not buying it. You don't sound nearly as educated as you act.
You might be a biochemist with diabetes, but.. You're not a Tesla, You're not an Einstein, you're not a healthy president of the college of cardiology, you're not a world record holding strong man or triathlete, and in the end.. It wouldn't really matter what your credentials are. That's an appeal to authority and I wasn't using it as a significant argument. The evidence is just overwhelming historically. Maybe some people like you have problems with plants, some people have allergies, etc etc, though.. I have my doubts. I think you're prolly just like a lot of these people who are addicted to animal products. Or confused. Cause the historical and empirical evidence is overwhelming.
Oh sorry. I responded without even looking at your study. I'll look at the study. But still, just doesn't really make sense. The most healthy people on the planet athletically throughout history have been vegan the most obese and disease ridden ate animal products.. it doesn't take a genius or any study to determine the correlation there.
Okay I speed read through it a bit, and I reread what you said and see you mentioned a difference between fats that I didn't notice before and pointed out this.
Okay, I googled it and came up with links that say scientists don't know what causes visceral fat so I guess you know more than the consensus. To me this is simple and it's what I said originally.. All forms of fat and protein and carbs do this if you overconsume. This is why you get both meat eaters and vegans dying of the same kinds of diseases if they over eat. And likewise you can typicially have healthy vegans and non vegans if they are athletic.
However, vegans tend to be killing it in competition.. So.. We have an edge there it seems like.
Either way.. You're totally distorting all of this in my opinion. I'm guessing you just need to exercise enough, that's your problem. It's less your diet, more that you don't exercise enough.
I don't think any health athletic person is worrying about inernal organ fat, no.. That's a concern for obese people which are usually animal product eaters, but also occasionally vegans too.
And, in vegan cases these are people who eat like all processed junk food.
No one who really like cares about their health and who is active and healthy and exercises should have to worry about such.
So assuming even if your study was accurate and that carbs were worse in that sense, the answer is simple. Exercise more. Better than consuming toxic flesh and dairy.
PS.. Maybe you should look up the rates of diabetes among vegans by the way... And see how veganism is actually a treatment for diabetes.. Vegan populations have less rates of diabetes.. How the heck can that be true according to what you've said...??? But once again it comes down to eating healthy and exercising, even vegans can eat junk food and get disease, especially if they don't exercise enough.
"PS.. Maybe you should look up the rates of diabetes among vegans by the way... And see how veganism is actually a treatment for diabetes.. "
So is the Atkins diet.
When you eat only vegetables, it can be difficult to overeat, as many vegetables are calorie-poor. But it depends on the vegan diet you eat.
If your vegan diet is salads, great! if your vegan diet is donuts - you're going to get diabetes.
If you eat only raw vegan foods, you are really going to shed weight.
But then, if you ate only cardboard, that would also be true.
All your studies showing veganism to be better than meat diets have one MASSIVE confounder. People who are Vegans are likely to be food nazis, watching what they eat like a hawk.
It is far more likely that a meat eater will eat a donut than a vegan will.
So you need to compare meat diets no carbs against vegan diets no carbs, against meat diets with carbs, against vegan diets with carbs.
What you are likely comparing is someone who eats a meatburger on a bun with someone who eats salad for lunch.
So go compare a PALEO diet person with a vegan who eats deep-fried carb-heavy meals.
Now come back with the comparison.
" The most healthy people on the planet athletically throughout history have been vegan the most obese and disease ridden ate animal products.. it doesn't take a genius or any study to determine the correlation there."
Fact-free generalizations.
Look up "The French Paradox" and so on.
Your "common sense" ignores one simple factor:
People who can afford to eat large quantities of meat generally eat large quantities of food, period.
It is not the meat that is the problem, it is the quantity of rich foods that are eaten.
Once again - anyone on a diet of donuts is looking for trouble.
Someone eating 4 Oz of salmon with a salad - not looking for trouble.
Without data, I cant see any correlation in your assertion, beyond the correlation that militant vegans tend to assume that meat is toxic.
Turns out the "Mediterranean diet", the secret wasnt low-fat. It was that many Italians were poor when the study was done, and so they were not overeating. Coincidentally, they were eating low-fat diets (cheap).
If you want to make Foie Gras (fatty goose liver) or you want to make richly marbled beef - you do not feed the animals hamburger meat - you feed them grain.
Wonderful vegan whole grain.
"in the end.. It wouldn't really matter what your credentials are. That's an appeal to authority and I wasn't using it as a significant argument. The evidence is just overwhelming historically."
LOL. I'll stand my appeal to authority (my own knowledge and experience) against your appeal to "everyone knows".
One last thing.
Michael Pollan's ideal diet was
(1) Eat Food (real food - cut out processed carbs)
(2) Not too much
(3) Mostly veg.
I agree.