Heaven......mmmm. Sounds a lot like hell to me. You can keep your club if it's real. I want to be 'moral' for my own reasons, not because of a nightmare 'reward' or endless punishment. Too much harm has been done by religion. Supporting any of them is madness in my opinion. It would seem the 'God' is more than happy to sit by whilst religion is used to steal, rape and murder thousands of innocent people. The 'harmless' rills and streams become the mighty river.....you can't have the people destroying monster part of religion without all the 'harmless' rural communities. Faith is a mental trap. Think for yourself. Concentrate on making the world a better place for those you love. There's no higher purpose or reward. How do you know that the real 'super-being' test isn't to reject religion and do what's right on your own two feet?
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Unfortunately, granting humans free will does have those implications. It is amazing to me how people can demand their autonomy from God and then blame him when bad things happen. No harm has ever been done by obedient Christians. It's only when we insist on doing it our way that the screw ups you refer to happen. That's the fundamental theme of my post: people pointing to the failures of others to obey Jesus as a reason to reject Him.
It is interesting, how many religious people fail to recognize the simple fact, that the idea of an all-knowing, all-present and all-mighty creator is utterly incompatible with a free will. If an all-knowing god created the universe, then he would have known everything that was going to happen within his creation. Otherwise he would not be all-knowing (and thus a liar in his own words).
Btw, if God would be all-mighty, all-knowing and all-present, then he would also be directly responsible for all the horrendously bad things happening on this planet. He would have made the universe (and even created mankind "after his image") in a way, which would allow for little children to be raped and murdered by psychopaths. He would have given people the "ability" to develop mental illnesses and delusions making them do such things. And he would have done so knowingly, without necessity (omnipotent, remember?). Must be quite the nice guy.
Your understanding of what constitutes reality is too limited. Like examining a shadow when there are other unobservable dimensions.
The horrendous things that are happening on this planet are the direct result of man's having been given free will and every chance to show that he can't handle it. There is an epic spiritual war going on and human hearts are the battlefield.
Flesh and blood are as expendable as your electronic character in a video game. It is merely your temporary "avatar" in this world. It's annoying to get killed in this artificial "matrix", but the real battle is taking place on a much higher level of reality. A place where science is unable to contribute understanding.
Until you understand this, a whole lot of things will not make any sense.
I, for one, am staying in Wonderland.
@stormbringer So if I understand you correctly, you believe if you father/mother a child and that child subsequently hits their sibling, that is in fact your fault. Because you do know that your child will not be morally perfect, right? You're saying that's on you as a parent. Interesting.
I have no idea how you reached such a conclusion. No I have not said that.
@stormbringer Why does foreknowledge eliminate free will? I can see the past, does that mean those actors in past events didn't have free will?
God can either be all-knowing and all-powerful, then you have no free will. Because he foresaw all your decisions in the first place and created the universe knowing the outcome of everything. He could have changed your path at will, but decided to make the universe (and you) the way it is.
Free will is not generally impossible (I actually believe to have free will) but the concept logically excludes an all mighty creator. If we have free will, then the god of the bible (or quran at that) is a liar, because he/she/it is not all knowing and all mighty.
2 years too late for the debate lol but thought I'd add the Bible has many references to God choosing to forget (or not remember). Probably where our saying "Forgive and forget" comes from. If he is an all powerful God, surely it would be within his power to know everything but choose to forget it. Also even if knows what we will do in the future, maybe because if free will, he lets us do what we choose rather than jumping in and trying to change the outcome ?
Just some thins to consider, have a nice day