What Happens when we Die?

in #showerthoughts8 years ago (edited)

Last week I heard somebody talk about how the thought of death was something constantly on their mind and to some degree something they were afraid of.


I had asked him if the fear was based around it being something that was unknown, the possibility of pain, the hurt of losing other people or something outside of all this. He answered that it was pretty much all three that I had mentioned.

Without wanting to sound pompous or seem like I'm putting him down, this small conversation was something that stuck in my mind since I've not really had a fear of death in a rather long time. The only way to not die is to not live...and personally I'd rather have lived and this makes mortality an acceptable consequence.

It's often seemed that the fear of the unknown aspect tends to be the more holistic issue on death, since in reality there is no way to actually know until it's actually occurred. While the pain and loss of others definitely can suck to go through, at least that is something we experience and can learn from while still alive. So I became curious of what answers existed for the "What Happens when we Die" question.

Various Answers to the Death Question

Now organized religions provide their own models of the afterlife, some of which people have probably heard of, others being a little more obscure. There's also the more non-theist approach that there is nothing. Personally, I have no problem accepting there being nothing after we die being a viable option, but it's just boring to talk about. That's like trying to describe a pitch black room.

Since people seem to like lists, rather than running through what each religion views on the afterlife, I'd rather take a look at the underlying characteristics that each tends to include in their model. For the most part, each model of what happens after we die tends to include some answer (often implied versus being explicitly stepped through) for:

  • Is there a soul that remains when the body dies?
  • If so, does it come back to life?
  • Does the soul maintain anything from life (i.e. burdens, karma, etc)
  • Is there a reward or punishment?
  • Is there a single place for everybody or is there a Heaven/Hell split?
  • Do you go to the same place as others or is each afterlife an individual projection?

Now, it's worth noting that you'll typically hear from atheists that there is no soul and nothing happens after you die, which makes the line of questioning end early on...and that's quite fine. While this absolutely is a possibility I'm willing to accept (coming from an agnostic point of view)...it's a rather boring discussion.

Also, while we typically give non-atheist models of death and afterlife as a blanket this religion believes this sort of thing, it's worth noting that there is usually multiple takes on this withing each group. On top of this, it really is an individualistic answer that often doesn't fit exactly with their stated religion. I say this because I think we tend to get stuck on the though "This person is X religion, so they believe Y."

Is there a soul that remains when the body dies?

This is really one of the biggies on how death and the afterlife is viewed...is there some remnant left after the physical body dies. I'm curious if there are those of you out there that believe there is a no remnant or soul, but do have some model beyond nothingness.

While it effects everyone a bit differently, I do think that most people are more comfortable thinking that there is something that persistently exists after their die. Regardless of whether it is correct or not, I can see it helping calm fears since it doesn't just end 'who they are' so abruptly.

Now, I do see there being some variance of how the soul/remnant is able to interact with the physical world.

  • Is there still a consciousness such that you are able to to perceive things?
  • Are you able to see your friends and family?
  • Can you communicate or only watch?

If so, does it come back to life?

Many religious models touch on the concept of what happens to the soul/remnant after the body dies. There is a lot of variance between religions around whether there is some form of reincarnation or eventual resurrection. However, between individuals this seems to split out even wider, with some individuals view their groups writings as being more literal and others seeing things to be more metaphorical.

Does the soul maintain anything from life? (i.e. burdens, karma, etc)

Most religions and individuals tend to ask the question of what carries over with you upon death. I doubt many modern people believe that physical objects go with us, but what about our thoughts or history of actions? Now, to me, the idea that should the soul/remnant exist, should be have things we feel guilty about things (that were unresolved) weighing on us when we die, isn't out of the question. This is a mental, emotional state and if these aspects to continue outside of the physical death...then maybe.

This is one that I think can effect our behavior in life, regardless of what actually ends up happening when we die. The belief that a persons history can carry over to the afterlife can help to push them to reflect on their actions a bit more. However, this also can be used in a less ideal way such as instilling fear in them to act a certain way, even when it may not be what they feel is right.

I don't personally have an issue with people being in their chosen religions. I've met good (and bad) people from just about all of them. While it can be a benefit for some, there is just as much likelihood of it being misused by others.

Is there a reward or punishment?

This is somewhat the flip question of 'what do you take with us...' asking what do we get after we die, whether it be good or bad. While I tend to be of the mindset that should the soul/remnant exist, a big portion of being rewarded or punished is self imposed based on what emotional state we're in at the end of our life. Often this is based on:

  • Were we happy with our life and what we did?
  • Were there unresolved feelings of guilt over things we'd done (or not done)?

Now, just like the previous question, this one can effect how we live our life. While sometimes being a useful thing for individuals, it's also one that is used to influence people with the fear of damnation or some utopian afterlife. To a large degree this is a carrot vs stick scenario.

Is there a single place for everybody or is there a Heaven/Hell split?

Living in the US, the concepts of heaven and hell seem to have at least been heard of by everyone. This implies a break where those in one place are separated from the other and those inhabitants. Some view that once assigned to one, that they are there for eternity. Others see the ability to move from one to the other (often in the direction of betterment, like going from hell to heaven.)

However, not every religion or more individualistic models include this dichotomy. There are many that simply view the afterlife as the afterlife, with everybody going to the same place. This still allows for the soul/remnant to exist, but doesn't imply a difference between good or bad people who receive some sort of judgement to determine who goes where.

Do you go to the same place as others or is each afterlife an individual projection?

This one is rarely talked about, with most models seeming to see the afterlife as being shared with all the other people (and animals/maybe insects/ bacteria?, etc) who have died. But there is also the option that each view of the afterlife could be a projection created from the individuals view.

This would mean that we don't actually share anything with other people, instead creating a copy of others into our personal universe. Every person when they pass creates everything and every person they remember as well as how everything behaves.

Final Thoughts / TL;DR

I don't think it's fully possible to know what happens when we die, without having been there. While I'm quite ok with there being nothing after I die, it's a boring thought experiment or conversation. So having looked across many different religions and individuals accounts for the model of the afterlife, I've found the underlying questions that tend to be applicable. The base is really if the soul exists or if some remnant persists after I die. Everything else tends to go from there depending on the answer.

I'm rather curious to hear your personal takes to the afterlife question whether it be: nothing exists, a more standard religious approach, something through personal experience and spirituality, or something else.

I'd be surprised if this hasn't been thought of by everyone on some level, at some point.

[Sorry that responses too me a little while to get to. Right after posting I had to leave for my last shift at my now old job. But I'm getting caught up reading and replying to all the FANTASTIC comments people have left so far!]


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Even as an Atheist, I have a hard time settling on the thought that nothing happens when we die. I have absolutely no idea what might happen, if anything at all. It is exciting to think about though!~

I can definitely relate there. While I don't personally believe in the more standard Judeo-Christian model of God...I still have to wonder what there might be going on at that large a scale. My closest definition of God is everything and just go from there...not implying any sort of anthropomorphism occurring.

I'm ok knowing that I don't know though...I'll just keep on wondering. Lol

i was a hard core atheist . I just used to throw that around without even thinking about it . It was just stupid to think about these things , afterlife and god . One day my cousin said to me i discovered i am god ! I was like what the hell are you talking about , you are crazy ! But i kept a open mind and i did my research , did not sleep for 3 days only researching . Turns out he was right and my arrogance had closed my eyes all my life . Converted from atheist to believer and dropped out of computer sciences study psycology ! Life really isn't what it seems to be when you sit there and think about it !

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I thought about religion today(after thinking about Jordan Peterson's speeches) and came to the conclusion that everyone who thinks there's a real god and angels etc don't get what religion is about. It's really just about teaching the reader morals and various life lessons disguised as hundreds of stories that people have come up with for thousands of years.
I also think religion is not necessary anymore, there's something much better: science, psychology and philosophy.

I don't think I'm very far off where you're at. To me the fundamentals are rooted in trying to understand how everything (in the most general sense) works...including the self, the environment, other people, time, etc. I do think I'm with you in that it seems many people get too caught up in the provided symbolism versus the underlying message in those hundreds of stories. To a degree, it reminds me of the version of the Art of War (Shangri-la I think) where the original (translated) quote is given, then interpreted by four different people; a military general, a bureaucrat, a more 'joe-schmoe' citizen and a monk. Each quote (akin to stories) is applied differently depending on ones situation in life.

I also think religion is not necessary anymore, there's something much better: science, psychology and philosophy.

This is definitely my approach! While I don't necessarily like to knock those who do believe more of a larger than life human looking being, I definitely have a hard time putting myself in their shoes.

As yet, the trio of science, psychology, and philosophy do not have a "solution" for death. Of the three, "science" may be the closest to what the average person might consider acceptable solutions to death.

There has been and is much ongoing research into life extension technologies. Discoveries of the existence and function of telomeres, for example.

There has even been serious discussion (by Eric Drexler and the Foresight Institute) of using advanced nanotechnological robots to effect a re-animation of a corpse.

My personal hope and expectation for a sustained future lies in the person who I believe created me. I find it reasonable to believe that, if Jesus created all things, including me, it will be no big deal for him to restore my life.

I have no particular objection to the "scientific approach," apart from the fact that ongoing success does not seem to be on the horizon.

I read The Tibetan Book Of The Dead which prepares people for the transition and it was pretty interesting to me because I had experience similar processes explained in the book prior of reading it.

Don't go into the light! 🙃

It's been a loooong time since I had read that one. I've remembered that it stepped people through the stages of and after death through instructions, but the individual stages had gotten rather muddled in my head over the years. Now I've gotta go back through that book. I've been a huge fan of Tibetan rooted religion for a very long time.

It was a while since I read it as well. I remember that that the spirit stays in the body for several days after death going through some inner trials/journey and finally reaching a moment where there are lights and fog type. I think the bright lights was attracting with Earthly attachments which brought comfort and dark fog was more frightening with self judgments. It's best to have courage and face yourself guilt, doubt ect but most don't in which they reincarnate back to Earth into something not necessarily a human depending on which lightfog they go in. .

Excellent, thought provoking piece @sykochica. Thanks for sharing and thank you also to my friend, @creatr for bringing the post to my attention.

I just wanted to leave a quick comment regarding whether or not we have a soul or not. It has been suggested that there is a massive release of dimethyltryptamine (DMT) into our brains before we are born and also at the moment of our death which some suggest could be the soul entering and leaving the body. It is also said to be released while we are sleeping in reduced amounts. Not sure how much there is to it but it's certainly something to think about if correct.

As to the question of reincarnation, there is definitely some interesting circumstantial evidence to suggest that this is the case with children having memories of past lives etc.

Also, the strange phenomena of transplant patients believing that they have inherited traits from their donors links both the physical and the spiritual in a way that requires more investigation.

Thanks for a great post!

Thank you! I really enjoyed putting this post together, being something I've thought about a lot over the years.

The DMT release has definitely been on my radar (along with some Terrance McKenna which I'm sure @winstonwolfe would love to chime in on at some point.) While I haven't had much doubt that it had some effect, I still had to be on the fence it that translated to us connecting with the rest of the universe versus the state taking place in our own mind and being more illusion (maya vs brahman.)

On the reincarnation...those are the sorts of things that really make me wonder. Sometimes it seems like it would explain so much if it were the case of characteristics being passed on from the donor or past life.

The skeptic in me has had a hard time on this front with there being more humans every year, meaning there can't be a one-to-one past life sort of thing. But at the same time, there's the concept of new, versus old souls...meaning only some of us would have that string of past lives available (though I've never met anyone who'd say/admit that they were a brand new soul.) However, this can all be explained away knowing that we do live in a finite size energy bubble (since I'm good believing in the conservation of energy)...meaning that everything on some level has be reincarnated in the energy sense, even if not in the consciousness (I'm not sure the right word here) sense.

In the end...definitely something that makes me go hrmmmmmmmmmmmmm while stroking my chin. Lol

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This is a REALLY good exploration of something that is at the heart of many religions and should be important to all of us, yet which some of us often prefer not to think about (our own mortality). Thank you!

Thank you! While I can't speak for everyone, for me many stressors seemed to fade away after I came to grips with my mortality. I do like to hope that more and more people will be willing to face this issue for themselves on a personal, emotional level...regardless if their answers match mine.

I think deep down people know when their answers are just repeated from what they heard from someone else versus one they actually searched, tested and came to on their own.

Very good post, i first wanted to comment here, and while i was making a comment, i noticed that the comment is very long.
Then i thought, i might as well make a topic about it, and link your post in it, and explain how i got motivated to write down the subject of my post.
I hope you don't mind , that i link your post in my post, to show where i got the motivation from.
Cheers!
https://steemit.com/showerthoughts/@sinzzer/my-hypothesis-about-death-life-and-what-we-should-do

I totally understand and that's definitely no problem. I'll hop over and give it a read! :)

Imagine when we die, we wake up in the hospital as a newborn and you cry because you know you lost all of your past life, eventually you forget the past life grown up and get to experience a new life in a new body, your mind is just transfered from one body to another

This is a subject not often discussed. Too sad for many to think about. I have my own belief, as others do.
Some have put forth an effort to gather as much information on this subject as they can.
Such as the website: http://www.nderf.org/Archives/NDERF_NDEs.html
Also there are many Youtube videos that tell of NDE's
I believe the Bible is the word of God. Others may not. Everyone makes a decision. Even if it is no decision.
Thank you for your courage to introduce a controversial subject.
Francis

Hi, @sykochica,

I've published a slightly expanded and somewhat better referenced version of my response to your excellent article here:

"What Happens When We Die?" ☠ My Response To @sykochika

Thank you again for your thought-provoking piece...

Oh nice! I'll go through that tomorrow...sleep is near. Lol. I did get it upvoted and resteemed to try to keep the related posts together and let people read different takes on it.
The comment you left in here was great!

Thank you, @sykochica, for your responses and for the re-steem!

I'm headed out to sing in a few minutes, but leaving this brief note to let you know that I will try to answer your excellent questions later on, and also to thank you again for your very thoughtful article and your kind and respectful interaction here. It is a pleasure to dialog with you. :)


watch this

Very interesting and thoughtful article.

I am in a fairly similar "place" in the sense that I have no real fears surrounding death and dying. If I have fear, it's having to suffer and endure excruciating physical pain before death... not death itself.

I have no religion... but occasionally I "see" things in my mind's eye that I cannot explain, and that is far beyond anything even an "overactive imagination" could create.

Adding some of all that together, I keep coming back to the realization that we're all basically energy. When we are in this physical arrangement known as "human bodies" we're still fundamentally an arrangement of energy. Then I think about all the people out there who have "seen things." Some call it communicating with God, some call it hallucinations... or something else. For me, the question isn't so much of whether people are "nuts," but why are so many nuts in the same way? Is that arbitrary?

Or is it just possible that it's actually pretty organized... just a different form of energy? Is it possible... that all these "bits" of energy all have their own unique signature... and when we die, we just become energy that becomes part of a new and different pattern? And when people claim to have memories of past lives... maybe they have exactly that, except at a level we are yet to understand?

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Seems like what people always tend to forget about death is: "Death is no more than a well deserved & sweet holiday rest" No more no less!! ;)

A very interesting question and here's my take on it.
I don't fear death because it is inevitable. I've been around death long enough to know that it's usually harder on the survivors than it is for the dying.

I believe in the Conservation of Energy which states "Energy cannot be created or destroyed." We change shape.

I do not ascribe to any one religion but I have faith that there are greater forces at work which I am not privy to - and I'm okay with that.

But I attribute this "change in energy" to be the reason certain sounds trigger an emotion or memory of my youth; why I can sometimes catch the merest scent of my father's deoderant, or hear my aunt's laugh.

Is it my imagination or can I sense a change in the energy around me? I don't know. So, death... yeah, no big deal in my book as long as I don't accomplish that feat doing something stupid a la Darwin Awards.

Show your friend this:

This is a topic that I too think a lot about. But as different religions believe differently what happens, it just confuses me more.

It's the same as being born, just in reverse. Were you afraid of that ? :)

A fascinating topic for sure - thank you for elevating the discussion, so to speak. My own view is that, no matter what happens to the soul - if anything - our bodies morph into the universe and so we live on forever, just in a different form. It's a little sad to think we might not be aware of anything anymore. But, then again, that preciousness is exactly what makes life such a gift. At least that is what I believe.

Wow that's a great article and a topic I have in my mind since taking care of my Mom!

Nothing, we rot away and make space for the next generation

I think we create our personal hells and heavens on earth. Sometimes they become tangled and intertwined. This is based on the approaches and decisions we make! Check out Baruch Spinoza! He's a genius philosopher who I really admire! @sykochica