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RE: Hard Fork 21: A Case For the 50/50 Curation Reward Model

in #steem6 years ago

First and foremost, thanks for your comments and for promoting this work to your audience and even placing a bounty on it. You're marvellous!

Now to your comments:

My impression is that Steemit is turning into ponzi scheme. Investors will be rewarded for doing really nothing, but pretty much for holding their STEEM (and auto-upvoting any kind of content).

I fear that this may not necessarily be the case. A ponzi scheme is a scheme where earlier investors are paid with the money of the later investors. As long as people still earn money on Steemit without having to invest in Steem, Steemit isn't a ponzi.

One more point, I don't think investors are rewarded wrongly because they chose to hold their SP. Have you noticed the crashing price of Steem lately? The main reason behind the price action is that many people here are dumping their Steem on the exchanges. If investors are incentivized to hold SP, I think it is worthwhile because the price of Steem depends on their actions.

Now one more question that is on my head: would HF21 help or destroy bidbots? Most likely demand for their services will still be there and at the same time bidbots will be growing twice as fast as they do right now (after all curation rewards will be doubled).

You're right that bid bot owners will earn more with a 50/50 curation reward. However, you seem to ignore the fact that a 50/50 model will leave the bid bot user in great negative ROI. Therefore, only a cretin will use bid bots after hf21 because such actions will only fetch nothing but losses.

Thanks for your contributions. You made some key points.

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Dear @gandhibaba

Of course I'm marvellous :) Somehow everyone sees it except of my own wife hehehe :)

for promoting this work to your audience

I hope you will manage to reply to some of those valuable comments.

A ponzi scheme is a scheme where earlier investors are paid with the money of the later investors.

Ehm, I think this definition is a bit outdated. Masternodes are mostly ponzi and they "in theory" do not fit your description.

If investors are incentivized to hold SP, I think it is worthwhile because the price of Steem depends on their actions.

That's correct and I do agree with you fully. Investors will have reasons to hold SP and probably powering down will slow down a lot right now.

But those who actually bring value and create content + engage with comments will suffer. Eventually we will end up with huge speculative bubble, with very few authors, bidbots bigger than ever before and with hardly any traffic. Not to mention that if price of STEEM will grow then this place will turn into ghost town (new users will not be willing to spend 100-200usd just to power up to 50SP -> min necessary amount to be able to "test" Steemit without hiting Resource Credit limitations right away).

However, you seem to ignore the fact that a 50/50 model will leave the bid bot user in great negative ROI

I ignore this fact because it will be VERY EASY for bidbot owners to adjust. Little math, few small changes and bidbots will be running again. This change will only force those programmers behind bidbots to implement some updates.

I really wish to have your optimism. I believe that short term this change will indeed bring up the price of STEEM, but in long run I see it as a huge opportunity for abuse. Those who are rich will easily get richer (bringing no value to STEEM blockchain) and content creators will struggle more than ever before.

Yours
Piotr

Any new changes MUST give us content creators and manual curators something worthwhile. I'm just not seeing taht in the HF21 proposals. Finding a way to curb bid bot abuse is far more important in the long-term than is tweaking the reward calculations. As for the numbers game, switching to 50/50 is a HUGE change, and if any changes are to be made, it should be a gentler adjustment to see how it all pans out there first. I have seen others propose something like 67% author, 33% curator to test the waters.

The last HUGE changes from a creator viewpoint were the change from 1day/30day payouts to a single 7d payout, and tweaks to the reward curve. The former gave content creators a better single window for getting eyes on their content. The latter seems to have cut down on votebots. These were overall for the best, I think. How will HF21 help us fight the deluge of spam and bid-bots? That is what I need to know. The platform needs to be sound before STEEM can gain in value for the overall market. Until the platform is better policed, I don't foresee any hope beyond altcoin speculation as Bitcoin gets volatile again. Perhaps a separate downvote pool would help. Maybe spending extra RC instead of vote power for flagging bad content could do something, since I now rarely make any measurable dent in my RC reserves.

[/rant]

Oh, and thanks for sending a memo that wasn't another BS bid bot or resteem offer.

Thank you for this your comment @jacobtothe

I only just realized that I never thanked you. Have a great monday ahead :)

Oh, and thanks for sending a memo that wasn't another BS bid bot or resteem offer.

Absolutely :) My pleasure.

Yours
Piotr

Not to mention that if price of STEEM will grow then this place will turn into ghost town (new users will not be willing to spend 100-200usd just to power up to 50SP -> min necessary amount to be able to "test" Steemit without hiting Resource Credit limitations right away).

Hard Fork 21 contradicting Hard Fork 20.

I still think we need to get rid of the bidbots and everything would go back to the way it was before them.

Why can't the blockchain simply request human verification before starting up a voting session?

What if the blockchain just asked simple one line random questions that a human would know?

I.E. like what color is the sky on earth? On Mars?

blue, red, orange purple?
And then only give the bidbot (user) 10 seconds to answer. We could use old nursery rhymes, things the bot guys could not guess. How bid bot programmers going to program the bots to do a whole bunch of random Q&A??? Nope, They couldn't keep up with the changes!!!

We just need to focus on the tech behind shutting down the bots!

Also we need an external database that manages and adds all the random questions. NO KYC needed, just little stumbling blocks. Just like recapture, but in text format!!! The 50/50 is not going to do anything but make the bidbot abusers even more money and make people like me who are outcast left even worse off.

I.e. my comment for example is not spam, but if we could stumble the bot my comment could live!

You wrote about "the crashing price of steem." But I'd hardly say that it's crashing.

For the most part, the price has moved along with all other cryptos this past year and a half. That implies that the issue is not with Steem, but with the overall crypto market.

As of last February, the Steem price was still in the $0.20s. Now it's up over 50%. While we would all love it to regain its momentum of late 2017, that probably wont happen, at least not for a while.

I agree that some of the price action might be due to people moving there Steem out of their wallets and to exchanges, but I don't agree that it's a major cause for concern.

Cheers!

For the most part, the price has moved along with all other cryptos this past year and a half. That implies that the issue is not with Steem, but with the overall crypto market.

A year ago, STEEM wasn't ranked 65th at CoinMarketCap ... Many other cryptos have performed way better, and you get much more STEEM for one BTC than some months ago.


I totally agrees with you and It’s my major concern about Steem, it’s so dependent of BTC price (and this would extend to the whole crypto coin world).
I think we need to find the way to detach Steem from that main stream, how?, I think the key lays on Content and how it’s accessible and used... dapps, SMT and communities may be the way.
It’s only my humble user side opinion as major technical aspects scape to my knowledge.Hi @majes.tytyty,

Cheers

As Bitcoin and the other major cryptos rise (along with gold and silver), even the smaller cryptos such as Steem will tag along for the upward swing.

And to be clear, it's not just that cryptos will simply become more valuable. The price of all fiat currencies are far above their true values, so those rates will drop. Consequently, cryptos will gain in relative value.

It's just a matter of when.

...And that’s the “trap” for Steem. Whe need to gain “independence” and keep our “content” aside of it’s influence. Whe have this as our main weapon and our great advantage. We are full of real humans willing to share human things and feelings, something that greedy coins and assets can’t provide.
We should find a way to empower our values over this crazy economic model.

Yep. For my part, I'll just keep producing quality content, and supporting the community whenever I can and in whatever way I can.

Onwards!

Another brilliant analysis. When the boss speaks, I listen.

Yes, Steem is not really crashing just as you have asserted. The overall bear market affected all cryptos but some suffered more than the rest. And Steem seems to have suffered far more than many promising cryptos out there. There was a time Steem ranked 3 now it's 65 or so. We need a radical approach because price is key for our survival in the long run. Thanks for sharing your views.

That implies that the issue is not with Steem, but with the overall crypto market.

I tell people that all the time!

A year ago, STEEM wasn't ranked 65th at CoinMarketCap ... Many other cryptos have performed way better, and you get much more STEEM for one BTC than some months ago.

Keep telling them!

only a cretin will use bid bots

You would be surprised how many cretins are on the server.

These cretins like their spam and plagiarism, too. No wonder they rely on bidbots for support.