Claim : The STEEM API is basically unusable by most anyone outside of STINC and a few developers who've been in the ecosystem for a long period of time.
Trying to build an app to integrate with the STEEM API is a futile effort for most and from what I can see and am being told by others, STINC has done little to nothing in over a year to improve this situation.
The documentation is all over the place, outdated, hard to understand, gives very little reference or examples and is basically a clusterfuck for anyone not on Steemit talking with someone who has gleaned this hidden knowledge already, and those who have this hidden knowledge are not exactly available for consultation.
Which is odd because, all I hear @ned say repeatedly is that STINC wants others to build apps on the STEEM blockchain, yet very few can accomplish this due to the vague/incomplete/basically useless documentation available.
My views are based off a months worth of discussions with 5+ developers attempting to integrate one programs API with STEEM's. Not one of these Dev's can figure it out yet, and all of them state that it's due to the lack of or vague documentation on the STEEM API.
"/shrug It's as if someone doesn't really want others building apps on this blockchain."
TL;DR
Here's what you can expect in the first month of trying to integrate with the STEEM API.
(Yes, your skin color will change too.)
I can 100% attest to this. I have 2 full time developers working on apps for Steemit, both are very experienced in other blockchains and are continually bitching at me about steemit docs and asking me questions that they shouldn't have to ask
I hope you get some answers, or help. Maybe I am no professional developer or anything but I learn quick and can learn just about anything. The transactions aspect of the APIs is another story. The difficulty of it was verified when professional devs couldn't get it to work. Most be some sort of trick somewhere to get it to. Anyways I hope we can get this figured out, for your sake at least @tuck-fheman.
ironic that the main post is 'worth' less than a self-voted snarky 'reply' - that kind of thing will ultimately kill the platform as it disenchants newcomers and quality content providers - once again the rich get richer and the rest languish in the doldrums. sad
Okay, this is heart breaking because I really want to develop a couple of business applications. Thanks for the warning before I go to fund raising.
Who are these Five Brilliant Steemians? And what can we do to help STINC build better materials?
Same here at @clevercreator if you've noticed I stopped writing and just drop in the chats to say hi to you guys. I am still convinced that Steemit was an experiment and that most of us were misused. Expect Stall tactics until EOS becomes more than Unobtanium and this is rendered obsolete. The name of the game is to stay ahead, so give them time to get their apps in place and the rest of us will get our hands on the Magical formulas to try to make what they've already have running lol
The goal now is to make sure that it is unable to be rendered obsolete. You have more power than you realize.
Glad I'm not the only one frustrated about this. I'm trying to develop a Steemit app myself, but the documentation is so lacking I often spend way too much time figuring out a simple API call.
I bet if they paid someone for a week or two to write decent documentation it would pay them back in no time purely because better 3rd party apps would be written.
I know this has been really frustrating, for you and for a lot of other people. Hopefully it's about to get better!
Oh, nice post, welcome to steemit, good community.
#Poker.
;)
Fully agree with this.
Extremely important issue to the platform's growth potential.
One of the reason why I didn't think STEEM was going to make it through it's nuclear winter was the lack of communication from Steemit Inc or anything that resembled anything logical. It just looked like a money grab in a lot of ways. But I'm convinced now that STEEM will survive. But yeah it would seem that STEEMIT INC would take steps to encourage 3rd party development including granting certain users allotments to work on stuff.
Hard work is about to pay off man, we are going through hard times, but we are here to support, and as a community we are gonna get what we want. Keep it up my man. POKER FTW!!!
Here is a good API explorer ;)
http://steemroll.io/api-explorer
Yeah, that's what I expected. :)
That's the #2 Google search result
yeah, bad link
haha yea
Pretty ironic don't ya think...
Only if you didn't get the joke.
That was genuinely funny.
the link is definitely broken
Experts, please answer. You can help a lot of stemians.
Time will tell, I'm no programmer but it's good to get this out on the table so we can become better 😬
@ned also had statement that Steem is going out of "beta" and @dan stated that in February, when he decided to leave Steem behind and continue with his EOS "Eth + Steem = Not but Dan", how he said "Steem is now mature platform"....
Both left mess and shit around. Agree totally!
Im having same issues with WordPress apps myself
Cheers
Luci
Interesting posts and can make people entertained .. thanks @tuck-fheman.
@sneak too, I just couldn't remember your name.
Very interesting.. Thanks.
Great post.
meep
Seriously MEEP. Who says great post in the heat of debate like that?
meep
HAHAHA this was too funny not to upvote!!!
Good post thanks for shairing @fkofficials
very good !!
Good effort man .
👍👍👍
Is it possible that this issue is related to Steemit being in "Beta" still, and documentation is not yet finalized?
Yeah.
(that's about all I can say. I'm too exhausted from searching for and reading random non-authoratitive documents trying to work out how to interact with the blockchain)
Ever thought for a sec that this was part of the design when it first got started as a means to limit things on the platform. I agree that the issues should be resolved as soon as possible, but part of me feels its all apart of the design. Who am I though, this just my 2 cents
'Was Steemit Built to Fail?" i hope not i came here to stay not just to make money and then run with'em
the most worrying thing, IMHO, is thinking if this delay in development/updating is due to problems in S.INC. And, of course, the management can't answer to this.
I think that at least an update of the roadmap is needed. Just to reassure the investors.
We should just do it. We should start our own docs based off of what when can figure out and go from there. I am so ready to do this but I have had the same issue.
This seems relevant here :)
https://steemit.com/steemdev/@justinw/how-easy-it-is-to-develop-steem-blockchain-apps-with-video-tutorial
Clearly not everyone is failing at this, just see 100+ apps on SteemTools.com. Although docs can be improved, maybe it's time ask some of the devs who are doing things successfully.
And confirm you've read this API and python docs: https://steemit.github.io/steemit-docs/
http://steem.readthedocs.io/en/latest/steem.html
Yeah, they're all busy @ned. I asked half a dozen here first and only few even bothered to respond that they are tied up on other projects. And I doubt there are more than a dozen that can do this as it stands.
How many of those 100+ apps are created by the same person/people @ned?
How many Dev's are there that can actually build something using the STEEM API?
How many of them are available for consultation at any given time or have time to simply answer the question, "Hey are you available to work on a project?". My results are far different from your propaganda.
Wouldn't creating some decent docs so outside Dev's don't have to spend months catching up to those who have inside access be a far better solution than continuing to promote this propaganda that it's actually very simple to integrate with the STEEM API ... apparently because a select few insiders have been able to talk with Dan or other insiders for nearly a year?
That seems like a far more successful business plan than upvoting yourself $500 for a snarky response to someone trying to build a community focused app on the STEEM blockchain, or maybe that's just me (and the rest of us).
100% agree with @tuck-fheman, the docs aren't even close to being usable. An API is only as successful as its documentation. @ned you're right, there are 100+ apps on Steemit ... with proper documentation, that number would be 5x larger and there would be considerably more robust tools.
Essentially you're squeezing a hose and cutting off 95% of the flow of water, and then pointing at a bucket and saying "look it's full" while we're over here telling you that you could've filled up the pool by now.
If you like, I'll let you know the handfuls who I know got in there without any coaching and make introductions.
Yes, please list the people who know how to work with the STEEM API, and please list them here publicly so we all can find out how to actually use this platform the way it was intended to be used. Great idea Ned!
Maybe even setup a page here on Steemit or a website where these select individuals, who can do what mere mortals are incapable of, are listed and have it updated to show who is actually available to answer questions or consult.
And most importantly, show us the rare individual that is available to work on a project other than their own instead of expecting the general public to know who these individuals are, track them down, message them all, wait for a response, only to find out none of them are available.
Even better, provide usable documentation with examples in one location so that others can easily learn how to do what your select magi's have figured out "without any coaching", because they are truly a dying breed it appears and I have serious doubts about the "without any coaching" part.
Start with this. https://steemit.github.io/steemit-docs/
And I'll get you a list of names to follow.
Seriously? Those are the docs? Someone listed the RPC API commands and then posted example outputs. I mean it is better than nothing, but to understand how to use these effectively, you'd have to study the code or spend an hour of trial and error on each command. Just pay someone to make some docs. Maybe it will cost a month of salary for them to experiment with these commands and intelligibly report and format what they discover.
You want to know what good docs look like? Here: https://docs.scipy.org/doc/numpy-1.13.0/reference/
those are great!
there's also these: http://steem.readthedocs.io/en/latest/steem.html
yep
So good men! So nice to see both of you understanding each other!... and that disappeared vote can make my day! lol,,, just joking! Peace for all...
I'm quite new in here but as I can see this kind of behaviour, in not good for anyone! I thought Steemit was for people, what a shame! and bad example for minnows too, as me.. lol Anyway...don't forget to enjoy live...
It looks a little bit intimidating.. I know he community it trying to improve on things but even people who have some programming knowledge have found it hard to develop on the steem blockchain. I can't really speak until I give it the good ole college try. I'll let you know what I come up with 😎
I have struggled as well - and I've developed blockchain apps for other coins. These docs are really not suitable to get someone up and running very quickly. Yes, we could go through the source code of other apps and look around until we understand....but the purpose of an API is to be fast and easy to implement I thought?
Struggled with it myself
This post received a 3.2% upvote from @randowhale thanks to @alao! For more information, click here!
Some of those apps are great, but how many are broken, outdated, or just plain stupid?
I would classify the 2 steem related apps that I have developed as the latter.
Touting the 100+ number as a major achievement might be misrepresenting the robustness of the development community.
@ned I tried contacting a developer of a couple popular apps on Steemtools and he answered "a real developer doesn't need help". And I've read those docs, they are written in tech language (im no pro developer although i did graduate college with degree in computer science ) and it would be nice to have it written in a "for Dummies" style language. With PHP or Python or Javascript code snippets people could use to start making things. When I wanted to integrate payments on my website, Paypal gave me a php script that does that. Just upload to my site and my website now communicating with Paypal. Would be awesome if there was a php script to access steem blockchain.
thats the problem. It isnt even written for pros. It seems to be someones notes and thats about it. I have professional dev friends that it left their Mouths hanging open after looking at it. I got further than they did with making it work. But a few real live examples, like there is for posting/commenting/voting would be nice for transactions. Making the voting,commenting, posting, following etc etc was really easy.
Yep. Most "guides" are written in broken and/or bad English using incorrect technical terms and weird non-standards jargon.
The key here is that SPL has the opportunity to only improve and grow SteemIt. This API doesnt seem to work and as you said the docs suck tuck. I think a lot of the devs, or the few that still have it working, are either too busy or like to keep it inside knowledge. If the reason for the API is to grow steemit and allow outside applications, then a quick walk through on how to get the transactions to work would help. I was able to get everything figured out except this aspect. But it almost seems as if its a secret. Usually github docs are self explanatory. This one is a mess. You guys are making bank and if you want this to grow as mentioned many times please invest the time/money to fix the documentation for this aspect of steemit. I would like to use it. Not to be rich but to improve how the process of accounts and transactions as well as amazing communities like SPL use Steem. SteemIt and steem has soo much room to grow still.
Help us!! Help You!!!
I think you've hit the nail on the head, @nicnas. Unlike other platforms where people do stuff for free and the geek factor, here it seems to be all about how much money they can mine out of the system with 'first-movers' advantage. They don't want to help others as that would mean reducing their own chances for cornering the app market (which due to the nature of steem means even free apps can generate good income).
I don't think that is the case. I have only been here on steemit for a week and a day. I have seen a lot of Oh-Woh is me drama directed toward the people that have been here from the beginning, and I have seen the "Old Timers" bending over backward to help people. As @ned pointed out, there are apps available. Someone built those apps. Those apps that have been out for awhile, most likely had a lot less Documentation available to help those developers than what is available now. Also, those early app developers had a much smaller knowledge base to ask questions of. My conclusion to seeing this thread is sour grapes. Never the less I have upvoted it, because I believe it is a sour grape thread, of someone wanting votes and attention. Just my view.
Yep I agree, the docs should be improved. I personally had to do a lot of head scratching to get a few bots and apps out. Looking forward to this, and the Steemit Whitepaper update. If you can spare the resources it would be awesome to get someone on docs, or even make a new hire.
I wish I could get a $500+ upvote on my comments one day.
How is a $1.30 upvote?
Just my two cents 😎
i gave you my penny! lol
;)
I'm giving you a penny. Isn't crypto grand!!!
Are you saying it ironically?
Not ironically, angrily, couldn't find an emoji to express it.
We think the same...
LOL that is what happens when you are a whale.
There's a thing called a "vote slider".
Yea looks like the other whales came out to flag it. $500 when to $30 real quick...
Actually it crashed from $586 to $0, then bounced back to $30. Volatile, just like the crypto market 🤣
Shhhhh my vote didn't even move ya... I tried. How many Steemers does it take to be a @ned ?????? With that said, it is still a good sign of what this can be when you can get a direct response from the top. Which means that ultimately the Top is not too far no matter who you are. Please don't lose that Steem!!
How do you ask them? Who are they? Where are they? There's no central forum anywhere. It's a shambles.
Sure. Their steem @account-names are usually on the steemtools.com cards. They can be messages right on steem by sending .001 steem to them with a memo and sometimes their Steemit.chat handles are the same and they could be messaged there. There is a #dev channel there and many also hang out in #witness.
You do realise that's literally the most inefficient way of developing software, right? What you need is a forum. You don't only need it for development, but you also need it for feature requests and bug reports. The fact that these don't exist speaks volumes about the commitment to the openness of this platform by the owners/developers. You literally couldn't have a more disorganised approach to platform development than what you have here.
agreed!
Wow for 500 dolar upvote I can be king of the Kebabland !
lol
Oh, snap.
The documentation may be weak, but together we can make it work when we ask, "What kind of app do you want to develop?"
I wrote a step-by-step tutorial on how to build an app with a live demo here: https://steemit.com/steem-dev/@thedevchick/steem-building-your-own-steem-app-like-steem-cool-quickly-and-understanding-how-you-did-it
Maybe it could help some of the people that want to work with the steem blockchain but are having a hard time getting started. It can be intimidating at first but i tried to make that article as exhaustively explanatory as possible.
good point ned.. I think doco is pretty decent.. I have build some apps and they come online soon. There is also this http://steem.readthedocs.io/en/latest/steem.html
Sometimes you just can not lead the blind. God knows you seem to try like hell, and we all hope they one day regain their sight.