@krnel, I support your stance on this.
You have always stayed levelheaded and it isn't really fair that someone with so much power has targeted you essentially. Life sucks.
The only real solution I see as attainable in the long run is for large-stakeholders to develop solutions to combat problems like this with steem power.
The other problem is the 12 hour only flag period. Not sure what the white paper lists as the reason but that is just ripe for flag abuse. That really needs to go.
This is vests vs. vests.
Thank you for the support. It does suck. It's been 3 months. Everyone can keep their rewards, except a few like me?.... Yeah...
The vests for vests leaves most of the power still in the hands of the rich rulers. How do you propose a solution? The vote negation? I thought of that as horrible, where someone doesn't even need to know when you post, or run a bot, they could just cancel all your votes... That did not seem like a good thing to implement to me. Let me know what you're thinking. Thanks.
The 12 hour thing was that they wait until just before the 12 hour vote-ending prior to payout (because you can't vote on posts that are paying out in 12h). So not flagging when I post the post, or the next day, but 7 days later...
It certainly does place the power in the hands of rich rulers. If the platform is going to thrive, those rulers (at least some of them) need to be sensible or at least appeal to a community. There needs to be a vigilante community of large stakeholders available to negate abuse of the flag. While there is certainly a freedom to disagree on rewards and such, the flag is not supposed to be abused. Your posts making zero are a clear indication that steem is operating far from economic equilibrium. I am certainly thinking a lot but there are a lot of hard problems in decentralized systems as you are intimately aware.
Ugh... I mean if the flaggers really just disagreed with the rewards don't you think just a few percent downvote would be appropriate. There is no sense putting a post that hundreds of others enjoyed down to zero. That does not reflect the value of the post. That is not how steem is supposed to operate. The waiting until the end so their actions can't be adjusted for really shows the intention.
Now I don't want this to come across the wrong way, some might see this as sucking up or whatever... you are one of the few bloggers here that has really driven a following and constantly puts out quality content. Now I don't do much reading of philosophy and most of your posts go overlooked by me. That doesn't mean I will go and flag a post making hundreds because a large community enjoyed your content. You have always stood a sense of reason so in the posts of yours that catch my eye - your opinions hold strong weight.
I agree. But how to do that, because we aren't there. What feature to do this? Do we organize a Clean-Flag Community on steemit.chat for whenever someone gets flag abused? Then we all vote to cancel the flag? I have found that people don't like to stick their necks out on an issue that could get them targeted and reduce their rewards as well. People have given me support behind the scenes, but publicly, or in their own posts, that's too risky for them. A steemit.chat place or discord server for Anti-Flag Abuse would put an eye on people and make them reluctant to join such an endeavor?
Thanks for the feedback again, appreciated.
We are certainly not there yet.. the cart is leading the horse. I think a Clean-Flag type thing would actually be a good first start. Steemit is really hard to find content. A lot of the time, content that I really wish I saw, curated and resteemed gets lost in the mess. This probably happens with some abused posts. Having a place to put things like that in front of eyes would be nice.
I do see what you are saying about confidentiality... I don't know what to do here... hopefully we can chat about this further. I really want to get to the bottom of these problems from a game theoretical standpoint.
I also want to say I left a comment on bernies somewhat rude post just now. As someone impartial to the situation I wanted to point out how it is his right to act like he does but I questioned his tactics.
I just want the best for everyone.
I don't have all the answers.
Would you like to talk on discord voice? Or text chat on discord of steemit.chat? https://discord.gg/CK8CWwr you can find me as KrNel there if you want.
So you think it's the right of feudal land owners to treat others they way they did? For plutocrats to do what they want, mistreat others, and that's a "right"?
It's not a right, it's only a "right" cooked up in a flawed system, coded that way. The feudal system was flawed. Plutocracy is flawed. Just because a system was created that gave "rights" that aren't real, true, good, rights, doesn't make them real rights.
Just got on discord. We can chat sometime soon, I have some buieness this week!
The feudal land owners is a complex situation just like it is here on steem.
Go call steem flawed?
Again, I don't read philosophy or whatnot but I am not to say the value it gives to others.
Maybe there is a point of redistribution of the reward pool to some new users?
What's your discord name#number? I'll send you a message, as I can't find you in the SteemSpeak user list...
Steemit is flawed in terms of people being able to resolve issues. It all over-simplified to run on money-power, which doesn't create favorable social and communal dynamics for success.
You should just keep crying and making whiny posts, that'll definitely fix it!
Yeah, I am not quite on board with the whines...
This is a hard situation to remain impartial to :(
is there actually any justification for your flagging, or is this bully rhetoric about "whining" your only excuse?
The reason for the 12-hour period was a fix to the 7-day hard limit on post payouts. There is the huge potential for abuse by upvoting in the closing minutes on a post, so they implemented a period where there can be no more upvotes. It's essentially a "review" period where overvalued posts can be downvoted but upvotes cannot be added and flags cannot be removed. Anything vote-related that increases the value of the post is denied.
Of course, the easy solution is to have a 48-hour or 72-hour window that can be extended. The 7-day period was never explained...why was 7 days even necessary? Three days, plus extensions based on weighted votes, is plenty of time and a better solution than a week with the current flag-only period.
Why nobody ever listens is beyond me. I'm pretty sure that I pointed out this exact problem when it was being discussed prior to the last hard fork and immediately after it was implemented. Predictable problems...nobody willing to listen or nobody that cares. But that's the Steemit, Inc. team. They always know best.
That's exactly what I remember reading now. There is certainly lots of potential for abuse at the end of windows. I don't know how much separation into two windows for abuse changes anything.
I don't know why people don't listen to reason either. I remember reading your words. Steem is complicated for a reason; operating far from equilibrium is much more fun for some people.
I think there are plenty who care. They will be the ones to jump ship when another service implements a "better" economic model.
Who knows. Always have my support.
Well, if the people writing the code don't care or ignore the valid criticisms - as they often do - then one obvious way to get their attention may just be to exploit the poorly written and implemented code. If they continue to see the problem and don't bother to address it, then perhaps we know their position on the matter.
In any case - as long as the exploits exist, you can expect them to be used and abused. Not that this is necessarily "abuse," but there are certainly some rather easy fixes.
Right you are. That exploitation becomes more complex when the system is not operating optimally. Maybe it is easier. I don't know. We can only find out by trying. I'm not much of a coder but...