The problem that UBI has at its core is that it is wishful thinking.
Or maybe, "magical" thinking is a better term.
The proponents believe that all that needs to happen for goods to show up is for someone to pay for it.
And thus, magic money, if created will be adequate for those goods to show up.
But, this goes against the nature of man, AND the nature of energy.
In all situations, the goods are produced by the productive.
This should go without saying, but those who believe in magic thinking refuse to acknowledge this fundamental force of nature.
If you can buy it in a store, some people put a lot of effort into getting it there.
Not only this, but there was a great line of inventors and engineers that invented the product and the means by which to produce it. Before the factory workers (or robots) even started.
And all that effort needs to be rewarded.
It is also beneficial to reward based on how much the person created.
In all situations, the money exchanged for goods has to be expected to purchase a similar quantity of goods in the future.
Time and time again, money that is created out of nothing has returned to its intrinsic value, zero.
A money has to have a solidity to it. It can only change in value slowly over time, if at all.
Most of the UBI proponents imagine a crypto-currency that just issues 100 coins to each address each month. And this is really easy.
However, the hard part, the part that Satoshi Nakamoto said about bitcoin, "now all we have to do is give it value".
Something that is given away for free has little or no value.
It has even less value next month, because the number of tokens is going to double.
Half of nothing is less than nothing.
So, the proponents of UBI believe, like the Weimar Republic and Zimbabwe that you can print yourself to prosperity. They want a crypto-currency that does not implode while it is rapidly inflated. All the ones that tried this before imploded... maybe the next one won't.
Positive Incentives are essential to any working economy.
And this is the thing that UBI proponents really miss. They say, if everyone was altruistic and just worked, then everyone can have everything. But this has never worked. In fact, it rewards laziness and sloth.
In the USSR, a quote from a worker, "They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work." Yes, the workers got paid... but the money didn't buy you anything. It only bought you what was available on the shelves, at that moment. And that was after standing in line to get in.
In all the pictures that communists love to publish, you see the employer getting all the money, and the employees all getting nothing. Then they show you >> COMMUNISM << where everyone gets an equal share. And, wouldn't that be glorious?
Except for reality. People are different and have different skills.
In reality, 80% of the production is done by 20% of the people.
The remaining 20% of the production is done by the rest. (Its the Pareto Principal)
What happens in a communist or socialist system is that those really productive people are disincentived to produce. Meaning, you do with only 20%. That is the maximum production.
So, in the end, you have the purveyors of UBI creating magic goods paid for with magic money. And what this reality looks like: Go to a store, now imagine that 4 out of 5 shelves are bare. That is all the choices you have. But hey, you got some magic money to buy it with, but it will only buy you half of what it did last month.
In the end, UBI will fail because its a downward pressure on production and the economy.
Welfare has not made wonderful glowing places for humanity. In fact, it has turn many places into slums. It has destroyed the family, it has destroyed the production, it has destroyed the dreams of countless men.
Many UBI proponents say "we will tax the robots." However, what you tax, you get less of. It is an economic law. So, what you will see is less factories and no incentive to robotize any factories or set up new robotic factories. Why bother when you won't get anything for all that work. And let me tell you, that 80 hour/week work schedule at a job has nothing on setting up a new factory.
Imagine going to work where you might get paid a lot three to twelve months from now. And then, all of sudden, the taxes change, and you won't be get any more compensation than you would flipping burgers for all of this intense effort. Honest question, what would you do?
What happens is that industry stagnates, and then begins to rot. Innovation comes to a stand still.
Even worse, is the hearts of men are broken. There becomes very little to better their lives. Suicide rates shoot through the roof.
But, the UBI adherent says, they can find happiness elsewhere. But, this is not really the case. Man is happiest when he is creating a better future. And when you block that future... wait, the UBI person says, we aren't blocking anyone, we are setting them free! But, they do not see. The long chain of industries that are required just to bring bolts to the store. When you impose UBI on the population, all of these chains break down. You can't get the parts you need to build anything. I guess, you could go digging in the ground for iron ore, coke and coal...
And so it is, UBI proponents have magical thinking.
That this time it will be different.
That people will continue working hard with no incentive and
That money will remain stable while they print a shit-load of it.
Keep working, stop paying.
Easier said than done.
But, i am trying to become financially independent so i can consider leading by example.
Maybe i would be better off if i stopped fixing little old lady's plumbing in exchange for food.
Lol, yeah gouging them for $100 an hour does pay better,...
We just have build the new, make the old obsolete.
I agree with what u said about incentives in economy but I dont see UBI as magic money apearing out of nowhere its to do with distribution of existing money at the moment we have a social welfare system full of abusers that costs more to run than it actually provides think of every government agent employed to file and decide if you actually should be aloud to claim welfare sack the leeches and how much more would be in the pot? Also amount of money that is spent on fraud prevention and then prosecuting the guilty party I believe it could be a way of simplifying the existing system if you would keep it at a low covering only a very limited bare survival you wouldnt even remove the incentive from economy who would want to live of 20 $ or £ a week? If they could do otherwise yet for somebody going throught hard times that might make all the difference and often people in borderline situations eg. Low paid work aren't recognized by the system as in need of welfare so they get no help at all yet people who could work but decide low pay work would be "beneath" their social position and just play the system(I sadly have known people like that in the past) suddenly get their rent payed and money for a relativly comfortable life all that would stop if UBI replaced what we have now
I prefer that communities (not the govern-cement) provides minimum housing, food and clothing. (See my earlier posts.)
On your idea of simplifying welfare. It seems like it would work, but really it ends up raising the prices of everything. Lets say you gave everyone 100£ / week. What ends up happening is that everything you would buy (especially rent) goes up by 110£ / week. And so, all the poor are even poorer.
And, the real reason UBI is pushed is that everything goes up 110£ / week, and so everyone become reliant on that UBI. And now, the govern-cement has control over everyone that much more.
"And, the real reason UBI is pushed is that everything goes up 110£ / week, and so everyone become reliant on that UBI. And now, the govern-cement has control over everyone that much more."
Yes I could see that happening as well
Not everybody belongs to a community though after all they create govern-cements and too often act like vicious sheep
Thinking things through while living a solitary life on my small boat far from society for now.
It is what the psychopaths in power want mostest of all. More power.
And, it is often necessary to completely disengage from society so that you can see it for what it is.
To quote someone / something, you use a greater than sign followed by a space
> Yes I could see that happening as wellproduced the top of this comment. Just some helpful markdown tips.
Thanks for the tip, I have been wondering how to make quatations stand out in grey but not so much as to bother with the markdown styling guide.so just worked around the problem.
In my case a temporary fix is the longest lasting type :)
This is very accurate and true. Sadly it isn't magical thinking either. The truth is no matter what you want to manifest, it takes work. There is no free lunch. Even when you are creating something that doesn't exist. It must be defined. Then the physical steps determined. Than the physical steps taken. There is no other way. No work, no manifestation. This is natural law. Just the way it is.
Nice post!
The way i am using "magic" in this article is as such:
We could avoid working by using magic. Just wave your magic wand, and "poof" the item appears.
You are correct. If we want an item, we have to build that item.
Doing every step. And there is no way around it.
just printing money never works. You picture about capitalism vs communism is actually still too nice. In communism the average people do not have as much in capitalism, but significantly less.
Still UBI should be at least better than full communism. People are still allowed to keep their productivity and if you are smart you can invest that to shield yourself from inflation. The big question in UBI is how do you finance it. If you finance it by progressively taxing the rich it is essentially communism. But if you fund it by printing fake money, it might do a little better than ordinary communism.
But there are also other ideas, such as the right to homestead. This is equivalent to a sort of UBI, granting everyone land that they may work to be productive, thus creating an income for everyone.
Magical thinking? UBI is based on scientific observations. Everywhere it's been tried, the results have been positive. Do some research. Read the results of the Namibia and India experiments. Read what data there is available from the Alaska dividend. Read what was observed in North Carolina during the Smoky Mountains Study of Youth. Look into what the Social Security Notch revealed. Study what happened in Dauphin, Manitoba in the 1970s and also the US. Base your thinking on research.
As for magical thinking, here's an actual example. Let's say 1 million people lose their jobs due to tech advances. Some of those people get new better jobs. Some get worse jobs. Some can't find any job. If your solution to this problem is "but everyone will be better off" you are applying magical thinking. What happens as automation increases and buying power decreases? In a fully automated world, there would be no jobs and also no customers. So who would buy what the machines are making? If your answer to that is everything would be free, that's magical thinking.
You are uninformed and misinformed. That you think providing people a cash dividend is an example of communism shows you have no idea what communism is, and your ignorance threatens the continued existence of capitalism in an increasingly automated world, where capital is more and more able to replace labor itself.
I disagree with every one of your points.
The only place that UBI has worked has been straight charity. Where you have people looking in on how the recipient is doing. And that makes all the difference. The difference between that and welfare.
Welfare creates ghettos. I have never seen it create anything else.
And yes, i shouldn't have used the word communism, i should have used the word extreme socialism. And i probably shouldn't have used the word capitalism.
Because, neither capitalism nor communism is a thing that can be run by the state. They exist in the people. And both have only a handful of actual examples of them working.
And you really need to learn about the costs of manufacturing. You believe in the Marx definition of the proletariat. Well, it doesn't work that way. In the future you are wishing for, there are no factories. Just like the USSR was becoming.