VP is actually leaderless, and you are each doing what you are best at, and none of you takes responsibility for what the others do?
Projects are proposed, most times if theyre bigger large stakehodlers will approve them. There will be discussions. A leader that decides everything? No.
Its mostly about "getting a second or third opinion" to be sure. At least for me.
For example, Vibes: what was spent where, and results achieved.
For Vibes I dont actually need to share where what was spent in addition to whats shown already. Its all in my wallet and all in my blog. Each transaction i got was then forwarded to winning musician. So its extremely easy to find it, theres a filter and each memo contains winning week and then for each week there is a post.
There can absolutely be no more accountability than that. Both visible in my wallet and each musician is named with how much they won each week.
but do understand: VP is being told no every time one more person reads the increasing volume of posts against it
VP proposals have very high support. I would never make the conclusion that the community opposes it. I can give you at least 500 people by name that love it and barely a dozen that are extremely loud with hate.
Can each of you just write down what you are responsible for and explain the structure that you do have so we know to ask you about Vibes
You have lists for who got what money. You can even find it here in comments. GP mentioned it here in post. Its matter of public record. he shares whats being done in these updates. I have shared it many times what I do. VP outgoing transactions show who got what and when.
This isnt something anyone is trying to hide or that its possible to even hide if tried. No legacy business has their transactions out in the open like this where you know who got it, for what and how much.
Maybe thats a problem. Knowing so much that some can spin narratives and fantastic scenarios.
"the work cannot be optimal, but hand us another $105K anyway, and then next year ..."
Optimal in what way? Who would even presume that VP could ever provide work as optimal as any well funded and oiled corporate structure. Employees with 8 hour work days with full focus at task. Imagine what could be done? That doesnt mean VP functions terribly for what it is. But sure as hell isnt working as well as it can.
Most of the stuff is based around funding requests and the work not being optimal means its slow, sometimes extremely, all opportunities arent able to be explored, you have times when I have to cover stuff out of pocket since VP runs on empty before requesting funding again.
Its all a matter of being stretched thin and this not being a real job. Now, does that mean that a bad project will be funded because of it that would not be otherwise. I cant answer that. Would SWC be funded anyway? Would boreholes? I dont know. If I was in charge id probably defund half this stuff.
But again. "Someone in charge"... decentralized community like Hive... that would probably not work.
I know that VP is well supported, and there are a lot of people who love many of its initiatives -- for good reason. I personally love quite a lot of it myself. But we also know the key holders account for much of the HP needed to clear the Return Proposal, too ... and while we cannot say the majority of the community opposes it, taking support for granted is also a danger to be avoided as well.
I think what is most unnerving is the assumption that decentralization is being interpreted as not only to mean no one is "in charge," but also, no one is "ultimately responsible" or "ultimately accountable," VP could indeed be funding a bad project, but ...
And this is precisely what some have been saying ... how is VP supposed to prevent bad actors from running fraud if this is the perspective? Is there no one with time or energy for loss and fraud prevention?
You are also not quite right about legacy businesses. As someone who works in non-profit as well as for-profit, I can tell you: for non-profits there are detailed audits and there are Form-990s for the public, and every spend has to be accounted for anytime a member of the public asks. Vendor lists sometimes have to made publicly available as well. For publicly held companies, there are those big quarterly filings -- now, every vendor transaction may not be there, but most major interactions are picked up because income statements and supporting documents account for that. I keep mentioning Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) for a reason. Even if that cannot be enacted for VP, you might want to consider, when you have time, how legacy businesses actually do communicate what they are doing ... and perhaps what happens when transparency is lost for too long, and then people get up in arms and start digging around and talking in wider circles. As someone who once upon a time overcame a billion-dollar company and all its paper shredding and helped run it clear out of town save for a tiny toehold, anything VP and Hive can do to avoid those kinds of scenarios will be a blessing.
But that $1M VP handles is real money, though, affecting real lives in the real world. I suppose I could consider my own volunteer involvement in a slightly larger asset set in my home city "not a real job" ... but had I been willing to be that hands off in my mind, that asset set, and all the benefits to the real people connected to it, would have been lost. I learned from that, that my connection to the reality of the job was directly connected to the responsibility I chose to take, not commanded of me from above -- because belief and dedication come from within. I know that you have belief and dedication enough in what you are responsible for in VP to keep it going even out of your own pocket -- that seems pretty real to me. Don't sell your good work short, @lordbutterfly ... I persist in saying the more clarity there is about it, and the easier it is for people to see, the better!
But if you are as stretched as far as you personally can go, that I cannot argue with. I cannot argue with the limits of your humanity. That is not my intent.
Sure.
Uh yes. I completely agree but I also know how people think here. I can probably give you a bunch of scenarios as to why there is no way whatsoever this would work here. A list a mile long.
Projects are vetted. Does that mean fraud wont happen? No. But so far the only thing I had a major problem with was SWC. Besides that I havent yet seen anything that warrants going to red alert over.
Its not about not having time or energy. When talking time and energy, for example it would mean that a project that could possibly happen inside 2-3 days, might take 2 weeks instead. Doesnt mean making sure the recipient isnt fraudulent wont happen.
which does not change the fact of what I said above. There is trying your best and contributing and then there is being "hands off". By the shere fact wanting to contribute and doing whats been done, there is no hands off mindset here. The best solution is that if VP handles this money then it should be a "real job" otherwise those that do the work cannot be expected to optimally function to the level of someone doing the same work elsewhere while that other person is receiving payment. Results may vary but expectations cant be the same.
And honestly this is a pointless discussion. Its volunteering, optimal performance imo an obvious thing and I dont see anyone ever getting paid for this type of work here. So really its pointless talking about it. Its not programming or coding.
We don't know the same people in the world, @lordbutterfly ... I know volunteers whose dedication exceeds anything money could ever pay for, and who OUTWORK those who clock in and clock out because they see value higher than the money amount. But if this is unreasonable here on Hive, at least relative to VP, OK. I will take that for what it is. Whole different question why it can't be paid work, too ... but you are right: as things are, payroll is not possible!
Glorified by shere fact they do volunteer work and I highly doubt they clock in long hours consistently. Great that you have that experience.
Ive never seen someone that did 30 mins of volunteer work ever be told: "Well, come on, it was only 30 mins."
But ive heard: "omg youre amazing. you worked so hard, youre such a good person."
My experience is that is not true even in the slightest and it would be preposterous to even suggest that doing free work can in any way compare to paid work in effectiveness.
Like I said, @lordbutterfly ... we live in different worlds. Different values. I find your perspective almost as difficult to believe as you find mine.
I leave you with the thought that the volunteers with the project bigger than Hive, with their viewpoint, have INCREASED the value of the assets in ten years, although in fairness, not being in crypto with its cycles helps, and being in a city that rarely has drops in certain key sectors of the economy helps. But the work that was put in sits out like gold in the city's middle skyline, and is a model for the state doing more along the same line to benefit many thousands and tens of thousands more people.
When I think of Hive, I tend to think of it like that in the crypto world, and even with some of the things VP supports, I see that standout legacy quality. The way Vibes and Hivefest have changed people's lives ... that's got that quality. The way community boreholes are fresh water that lasts and lasts... that's got that quality. Good accounting -- again, not talking about GAAP, but the things VP did in 2023 as a base standard -- is a good way to tell a legacy story, too. Just a thought for the year-end wrap up and inevitable Q1 proposal time period.
If Vibes didnt bring in users and generate views and attention outside Hive it would not exist, simple as that. Any good it does for people is a consequence of that. If it stops doing that, I will be the first to cut it. And mind you, once our entries dropped from 500 per week to 200 (as a consequence of Hive price going down from 50 cents) it did cross my mind. But then ofc I adjusted some things to pull more value from community itself with the promo videos they do that often generate 1000-6000 views per video.
And I can tell you 100% that it is not run optimally. Theres so much more that could be done with it but its not possible precisely due to it being voluntary work and putting in work as if it was a full time job is not realistic or possible.
Again, @lordbutterfly ... we live in different worlds. I have read enough proposals from VP and enough comments from you to know that the people and the life change good that VP is doing do not matter one bit -- it's just there for the public relations. I knew that. I was waiting for you to say it, and you have. I know that is true for the community wells as well, because VP is clear on who it really wants. Remember how this conversation started? Remember the proposal from September 22, and how the proposal describes who is best for Hive? Y'all do not want the people you have to play ball with for now. Y'all want those higher-net worth business-owning individuals that you describe here ...
And like I said, that same proposal suggests where VP thinks most of those people are from ... despite the fact that they are ALSO not motivated with Hive below 50 cents ... but we know that from the global data already about who actually is the most motivated to adopt crypto.
I don't know if you have studied the crypto cycle at all ... but if you ever do, along with the crypto adoption data at hand, you will know why I spent a day or so, talking about the values that I have, for the sake of Hive, long-term. Being ready at every moment to throw the kind of people under the bus who carried the chain through the last bear may "work" in 2024 and perhaps through 2025 because of the cycle itself. But, 2026 through half of 2028 will likely be a different story if the last three cycles are any indication ... and the level of hard feelings about Hive, and the accusations, will be running up all the while. As someone who knows what it takes to manage a 75-year legacy bigger than Hive itself, I just happen to know that short-term "extracting value" thinking does not generally lead to good long-term results.
But we live in different worlds ... different values, different goals, different experiences. I fully understand where you stand.