"I was vegan/veggie for 17 years and it seriously damaged my health." No evidence whatsoever that you were or that it did.
I'm a vegan. My blood test results are fantastic; no deficiencies whatsoever, and actually it's better than when I ate animal products. (I ate what I believed to be a balanced diet when I was not a vegan, having a meat dinner most or all nights of the week.) My testosterone levels are also good, being well within the healthy range for my age. I have little to no belly fat, and a very good BMI.
And your counter-arguments are so badly informed. Who is it meant to convince? Informed vegans know (and it is very easy for a vegan to be well-informed nowadays) that the majority of crops go to feeding animals, and meat eating diets require more water and land than vegans do. The biggest cause of deforestation is animal agriculture. The desertification of Mongolia is due to animal agriculture.
And also vegans know that some animals die unintentionally in food production, and their goal is to reduce that by not eating animal products which cause even more animals to unintentionally and intentionally suffer and die.
Dairy and most meats (being from female animals) contain actual mammalian estrogen.
The OP asked you how long you had been vegan and you avoided the question and then your argument became riddled with ad hominem nonsense. That would suggest that you haven't been vegan for very long and your blood tests reflect, to some degree, on your past diet. Give it 20 years and you're likely to have leaky gut, leathery skin and bad gums.
Form follows function which is why herbivores and carnivores have different "looks" Herbivores are generally heavy boned with big stomachs (bovines, gorillas) or small boned with proportionally small limbs and huge bodies (guinea pigs). Carnivores are sleek and omnivores are somewhere in between.
I'm confident that neither you nor the OP resemble a gorilla, which, despite being, on average, far shorter than a human, eats considerably more food. Do some research on what captive gorillas are fed per day, and you will find that what you eat falls far short, meaning that you are failing to consume all the vitamins and minerals that you require to be healthy long term. That doesn't even factor in that your mineral requirements are higher than a gorillas because you are a more complex creature with a bigger brain!
The main difference between you and the OP is that she is listening to her body, and you are listening to an agenda.
Brilliant!
Hahaha you haven't seen me on a Sunday morning :P
cheers
Anj :D
How long have you been vegan? Can you produce blood test results from 20 years ago plus daily menu plans dating back this far? I'm in the UK. We tend not to get our results printed out unless we make a special request. That wasn't something I did.
Where are your counter facts to refute them then? My counter arguments are informed by reading properly-executed scientific studies. Actually reading them from start to finish rather than relying on a biased overview in some club to which I subscribe. What evidence do you have to back up what you say here?
You think you're well informed. Good luck with that. And congratulations on your blood tests and belly fat.
My goal wasn't to convince anyone of anything. I shared my experience with veganism in case -- in case -- any vegans were feeling ill and wondered whether it could be caused by their diet. That's my motivation. It was done with the best intentions.
As I've said elsewhere -- I don't care what anyone eats or doesn't eat. I wish you luck with your diet. Some people can handle it. I got very sick. That's all there is to it.
There is no evidence you got very sick.
What year did you go vegan?
You seem to have no idea what I'm talking about even though all of the major vegan outlets provide such evidence, also based on scientific studies. May favourite is probably Dr Michael Greger who, whilst perhaps not perfect, does make an earnest effort to dig into the scientific literature.
I was already aware of all the evidence you brought up, and it's not at all convincing. What little truth there might be in it, there is an absolute flood of studies showing that the vegan diet is the optimal diet for all humans, as all humans are physiologically herbivores.
All people can handle it. Some people are dishonest and/or incompetent. If you failed the vegan diet (I don't believe you ever actually were vegan) then that is absolutely your fault for being crap at it. It's not even hard to be vegan. That's all there is to it.
Congratulations for not UPVOTING YOURSELF again. That's progress.
I went vegetarian nearly 20 years ago. The vegan situation came about a few years after that. I was on and off for a long time but I had two prolonged periods of pure veganism.
I have to go out but I'll be back later to answer. But if you are going to continue accusing me of being a fraud or a liar I will fucking block you. There's no need for rudeness here or anywhere else. Learn to control yourself and discuss issues without being a dick.
Later...
If you went vegan nearly 20 years ago, that would've been around the year 1999. And if you had been vegan for 17 years for a few years after that, let's say 3 years (by saying a few, I assume that is more a couple) then you became a vegan in around 2002. 17 years from that time is 2018/2019. Wow, you're still a vegan.
And wow, the internet and digital camera and record keeping technology have become significantly better since then. Yet you have no personal evidence, whatsoever, apart from an obviously fraudulent story, that you were ever a vegan. No photos of you hanging out with the stinky vegan friends you claimed to have, no photos of you at vegan events, no blood tests, no doctor's reports, nothing.
From https://www.nhs.uk
"GP records should be retained until 10 years after the patient's death or after the patient has permanently left the country, unless they remain in the European Union.
Electronic patient records must not be destroyed or deleted for the foreseeable future."
If what I say is so unbelievable, why do you need to attack and slander me? Do you have a problem with people who disagree with your dogma?
I do know what you're talking about. I read, and bought into, all that shit for many years. Only when I started to do my own research did I notice how misleading the vegan propaganda actually is.
Oh, and you still haven't brought this precious evidence with you. If you're gonna demand I back up everything I say with evidence, then you'd better play your side of the game too. If you wanna protect your precious dogma, bring the proof it's the best diet. You won't, of course, because there is no proof. It doesn't exist.
You don't like proof; you just like to feel as though you're RIGHT. You don't strike me as the type who needs evidence. You just believe, don't you! Like a feeble little sheep. You get your information from a cluster of incestuous sources and you believe. You swallow it. And you close your ears to anybody that says different. They're just wrong. Heathens. Dangerous. Burn the witch! You really think a diet where you need to INJECT YOUR ARSE with synthetic B12 is the healthiest diet of them all? Listen to yourself.
Let's just give this gem a moment on its own. Let us reflect on its ignorance. LOL. Humans are omnivores. Open a biology book. What other bullshit do you believe? I'm genuinely interested now. Unicorns? Fairies? Magic men in the sky?
Dr Greger: cherry-picking, vegan propagandist! Are you serious? Jesus! I'm not gonna read through someone else's filter. Especially not his! I go straight to the original scientific source and use my own cognitive abilities. BTW, Greger claims that blood cholesterol is linked to dietary cholesterol. He's wrong. Look up the science.
So veganism works. If it doesn't it's not the vegan diet's fault; it's incompetence or the person is just lying. You sure there aren't any other options? Vegan diet: don't eat animal products. Stick to plant based. Keep an eye on macro- and micro-nutrients. Ok. YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. But I didn't eat any animal products. And I took all the supplements recommended at the time. And I made sure I was getting protein and... YOU'RE A FUCKING LIAR THEN! rage quit
You didn't mention for how many months you've been vegan. I'm guessing not too many.
Sorry, I meant to say frugivores not herbivores.
I don't inject my arse with B12. I don't know of any vegan who does. B12 is produced by soil bacteria, and can thus be found in dirt and water. Drinking from natural water sources or eating vegetables that haven't been washed could both provide our original needs. Because the livestock are also deficient in that in the modern world, they too are supplemented with it.
I think your ignorance about B12 clearly indicates you were never really vegan.
If Dr Michael Greger is cherry picking, then you must be picking the individual atoms of cherries, because the contrast between what he does and what you have done is quite stark. All you seem to have done is cherry pick the cherry picking of paleo and keto websites and/or blogs.
The second last paragraph is again completely unsupported by evidence. Science shows that if someone is actually doing all those things (which I don't think you were. In your apparently fraudulent story you weren't even committed enough to veganism to stop cooking meat for others) they will have no nutritional deficiencies and very good health. There are vegan ultra marathon runners.
Anyway, as I said. If such an ignorant statement about B12 is one of your arguments, it is really obvious that you were never a vegan.
And lowering my dietary cholesterol lowered my blood cholesterol. Vegans typically have lower blood cholesterol levels than non-vegans. That's why doctors recommend reducing dietary cholesterol intake to reduce cholesterol. It's pretty obvious. Another nail in the coffin for your supposed veganism and scientific understanding.
oh, and btw I think it's very rude to go into another person's post and UPVOTE YOURSELF. Have you no shame?