Feedback has been received for various areas of the project and some changes are to follow. As stated in the announcement post, we're in a trial phase until April 22nd 2022 to allow for flexibility and adjustments to the curation model and the project overall.
Distribution/Curation Data Post
The current format for the data post has multiple issues which restrict comprehension of the curators efforts.
Problem
- Post & comment votes are combined
- Total vote weight used for each curator is provided (below the tables) but the vote weight used towards each individual author is not
- The beneficiary attached to the data post isn't a reliable way to reward the efforts for those collating the data (previously set at 80%)
Solution
Comment votes will be dropped from the outgoing vote totals as the curation trail does not follow behind comment votesComment and post votes can't be separated using HIVE SQL, so we're going to include comment voting with the trail and link this change with point 2 below- The rank column will be dropped from tables and the total vote weight used per author will be added instead. This will be in descending order, so the account with the highest total vote weight received will be at the top of the table
- The beneficiary will change to 100% and an upvote using vyb.pob (and possibly vyb.fund) account will be applied to the data post to provide the data collator with a consistent reward (while also removing the ability for @vyb.curation to receive upvote rewards from these accounts)
[2]
Communication & Curator Opportunity
Heavy reliance on third-party applications like Discord, Telegram, Slack, etc. for communication with curators is an issue when we're looking to boost engagement and decentralisation on the platform.
Problem
- Limited interaction with the overall community which is reducing the opportunities for curation expanding outward
- The use of Discord as the main method for interaction with curators is creating an 'echo chamber' while also adding to point 1.
- Curator selection is limited due to the sphere of influence held by the VCP Admin(s)
Solution
- Communication post to be published on @vyb.hub* (then reblogged by @vyb.vyb) on the day of curator swap-over. This will include details about the curation trail and delegation allocation for the curators during the previous week, as well as a method for people to request curatorship (outside-in) and for previous/current curators to provide feedback (inside-out)
- As above.
- An application process will be shared within the communication post which will provide an avenue for interested persons to get involved with the curation efforts (specifically @vyb.curation curation blocks to begin with as VYB Check is still largely in development with the initial core group)
[2]
VYB Curation
is the main funnel for the VCP distribution/curation model. Curators are followed by the @vyb.curation account and its voting trail on a weekly basis and the data for outgoing votes are published on the vyb.curation account for the community to review. There are no guidelines set for the curators so they can vote how they like with the understanding that their upvotes will be publicly shared and acknowledged by the community.
Requesting community feedback for below. This isn't to say that problems and solutions aren't identified and being discussed or implemented already.
Problem
Solution
The above points will be updated with feedback received from the comments and credit will be assigned.
[2]
VYB Check
is a method for rewarding excellent content through a submission and approval process. This process is backed with reason and transparency to ensure that some level of accountability is maintained for the curation votes received.
Problem
- VYB Check workflow has primarily been off-chain during the initial stages to provide room for improvements and flexibility
- Checkers have no incentivisation, except through their own intrinsic motivation, to approve/deny submitted posts by curators
- Posts outside of the VYB/POB tags cannot be rewarded by the VYB Check VYB/POB upvotes
- No method for VYB Check accountability has been set up like the VCP Distribution Data posts
- Limited potential for !vybcheck submissions if restricted to VCP curators only
Solution
- All VYB Checks will be moved on-chain with Discord being used to post the initial comment submission for Checkers to respond to (this will move to be fully on-chain once automation is set up for the @vyb.check comment response)
- Sponsorships for Checkers are being offered by @proofofbrainio to assist with the VYB Check testing phase during the 3-month trial. This will be in the form of a POB delegation and curation trail follow from the @proofofbrainio account
2.5. A method for rewarding liquid/staked POB/VYB to curators (submissions) and checkers (approvals/denials) is being developed. This will come from the curation rewards earned by the main trail generator (vyb.pob), after the initial 50% of the rewards have been sent to support the development of Proof of Brain via the @pob-fund account. - A post called "VYB Check Approval Notifier" has been published to act as a bridge for rewarding these posts.
- Approvals and denials by the Checkers will be posted on the @vyb.curation account in a data post.
- We're going to test grounds with the !vybcheck submission process as a platform-wide solution, initially starting with a one-week trial phase.
[2]
**@vyb.hub is being created as an on-chain method of communication for specific areas of the VYB tribe. This will include, but is not limited to: tech-support/issues, moderation, governance, curation, distribution. Further details of this layer of communication will be posted in an announcement post via @vyb.hub.
@vyb.curation trail support
Why is this? This should be possible.
Hi, @themarkymark
The columns are arranged in this way in the HIVE-SQL table Txvotes
This why it is not possible, If you know the another way , tell me please.
@topbooster told me that it's not possible due to the type of HIVE SQL table. I've mentioned him there so more info can possibly be provided.
We're testing with comment upvoting at the moment and having issues there as well. Scaled voting doesn't appear to be working on hive.vote trail when the vote comments box is ticked. Is this something you've stumbled onto before?
I don’t use scaled voting, I believe the only usable solution is a dedicated account for each token.
I see. It's not been an issue with the trail when upvoting posts, just with the comments. If the post and comments can be separated for the data tables then we'll be progressing forward with a dedicated curator for comments/engagement (possibly using the fixed voting weight if this is the only usable solution at this time) and the curators for post content. Details still to be ironed out, potential issues highlighted are appreciated.
I've been speaking with @memeisfun who is running the @vyb.engagement project/account and he mentioned issues with scaled voting as well when using hive.vote.
I'm glad you guys are seeing issues, addressing them and evolving.
Problem
Solution
1&2. Try to curate smaller fish who don't normally get as much notice and maybe give advice, so they can improve.
Is this a future problem or something that is evident now from the data?
This is an issue with the underlying mechanics of the tribe, how it started, and ultimately the blockchain's culture as a whole.
I've brought up the issue with the 50/50 reward split previously and how it skews in favour of the heavily stacked within linear reward pool tribes. Larger stakeholders can run ahead of the pack at quite some speed once they have their position and the usual argument against this logic is: "well, wait until they dump some, time will tell". Highly volatile, as I'm sure anyone would agree.
This event took place on the POB platform recently after POB -> VYB direct transfers initiated (not a traditional "dump", although the effects are comparable) and while it's provided room for new opportunities with curation, the same issue remains with a heavily centralised stake behind one account (@vyb.pob).
We're looking to introduce more ways for the curator to be rewarded within the curation model while addressing the issue that Proof of Wallet and Proof of Brain are two separate things, in terms of distribution importance.
In an ideal world, there would be a polished and effective curation model primed and ready to go at the beginning of a tribe that just worked (and if there was limited market-based acquisition of tokens, there may be a better representation of PoB). This isn't the case with the VCP though as we're actively developing as we go and like you say, addressing and evolving as things progress.
We had @khoola curating within The Terminal (a community on HIVE dedicated to welcoming and getting fresh users off to a strong start on the platforms) during his curation block after he'd used his initiative to ask @thekittygirl for permission to do so. It wasn't completely "decentral" as he did ask me if it was allowed (which ofcourse it is as curators have the freedom to cast their votes how they like), but I saw it as a brilliant development for the curation model setup and if I wasn't there to say "of course that's OK", I'd hope that @khoola (or anyone curating) would go ahead anyway and provide this kind of dedicated support to newcomers on the platform.
I'm definitely eager to see more focused curation for the new and enthusiastic members of the chain.
Cheers for the continued feedback! I did get your message about unsuspecting curators on the other distribution data post also. I'm still of the opinion that we shouldn't post the data for people being trail-followed unsuspectingly. It has strong emotional feelings attached and the last thing we'd want is to put people in an uncomfortable position in such a public manner (once the names are shared in the post it is possible to check anyway, so it's not like we're withholding account names or muddying waters there when it comes to transparency).
I believe the idea of posting curated updates via @vyb.hub will be of great help in maintaining a more accessible flow of information than discord. I really have a hard time keeping up to date on discord and reading all the chats that end up being filled with news and this causes me a feeling of absence and maybe a false impression that I don't "care". The fact is that I have little free time to dedicate to the project other than the work itself of carefully curating it. I don't mind that I'm not necessarily able to follow the conversation if that's not essential, but I think that if the VYB curator's plan is to have a strong and fully connected team, it makes more sense to transfer my role to someone who can integrate more and be active on the team. In no way would this make me sad, I'm grateful for the experience I've had so far and I will continue to participate in Vyb anyway, since I joined Hive my vision is of "curation".
I'm hoping that @vyb.hub can provide more direct communication for many different avenues of VYB and the VCP is the first testing ground for that. We also have the AAT for Anti-Abuse Team (community mute updates), VSB for the VYB Stewardship Board (project proposals, ballot voting), and more, which can utilise the space.
Discord is a pain due to the way that messages appear in a chronological sense and before you know it you're many messages deep and anyone looking to catch up has a task on their hands. Fortunately, the progress has been free-flowing and the importance of the initial Discord setup has been more for foundational building rather than any major developments.
I believe the Distribution Data posts for the curators speak volumes and that's what truly matters, the results. As we progress towards increased communication on the platform and as more people get involved with the curation (rather than focusing on a small group of people), I feel like we'll find a more community-supported and inclusive opportunity for many upcoming budding curators who'll be able to find their own role, rather than having a role thrust upon them by whoever clicks the fingers. This is much more possible with a focus on freedom to vote as you like, with detailed accountability provided. I shared a comment to @notconvinced in this post about @khoola and his desire to support The Terminal during his curation block, this is a great example of the kind of roles that people can undertake using their own initiative.
Strong and fully connected, yes, but not in a small closed-off team in the shadows, more platform-wide and engaged with as a community (whether that is VYB, POB, ETC, ETC, ETC).
LOL! I myself have a day job that is from 8am to 8pm... and it is nice to know you are there.
The way I see it, everything is still in experimentation... just stay with us we will see it through, probably 🤣. Aren't you even curious what the curation model will fully look like? and be there when that happens. 😍
If yes, don't mind the chatter much on discord... we will find some time to relax and chat then get to know each other, hopefully 😂.
anyway, take care see you at VCP HQ.
Me gustaria saber si el proyecto VYB , sigue vivo???
alguien trabajando aqui?
tengo interes y me pregunto si hay algun motivo para promediar??
gracias de antemano por su tiempo