You are viewing a single comment's thread from:

RE: The Daily Meme #390!

in #wrongthinc3 years ago

I'm always suspicious of anyone who flat out defines capitalism as "exploitive". Perhaps it's a matter of definition, an ancap would support the trade of goods and services by voluntary associations. There is no hierarchy inherent in free trade, and no coercion. Anything exploitive isn't true capitalism.

Just as a socialist says the Soviet Union wasn't really socialist, ancaps will say the current system isn't really capitalist. It's just a slapping match.

We could probably agree on one thing: real anarchy has never been tried. No matter how members of a society organize their economy, as long as power is concentrated in governments (or corporations, or in the hands of wealthy individuals) economic conditions always wind up exploitive.

Sort:  

We could probably agree on one thing: real anarchy has never been tried.

Well, almost.
https://listverse.com/2016/06/29/10-instances-of-anarchist-societies-that-actually-worked/

Where it has been working, crapitalusts came and bombed the people back into submission.
Collectives and cooperatives were the way of business before the corporations moved in.
Remember the mom and pop's?

Can we agree that there are no citizens?

Ironically in nearly every instance cited by that list there are hierarchies or governments established to enforce the "anarchy." Several were even established by coercion or the orders of a "leader." Most of them are not examples of anarchy but of socialist collectives, which would be allowed to flourish in an ancap society so long as they didn't coerce outsiders into joining them (which they seem apt to do).

I don't take issue with collective ownership per se, I just think market forces are better then centralized planning (by dictators or groups of dictators elected by the collective) at determining resource use and allocation. If the collective provides a marketable good or service, great, let them sell it to other individuals and collectives. If not, the market should allow their failure, so that their resources can be utilized somewhere else more necessary to the needs of everyone. If that commune in Virginia can sustain themselves with crops and hammocks, awesome. But if not, it would be foolish for them to continue trying, and it would be coercive if the citizens of such collective were forced to do so. They should be allowed to take their talents and resources elsewhere or apply them more profitably within the community, not forced by the collective to continue beating a dead horse. Even they are beholden to the natural forces of markets.

Hierarchies form naturally due to differences in talents and access to resources. It makes no logical sense to reject every kind of hierarchy, because to do so is to reject nature itself. We have rights as individuals to participate in whatever natural hierarchies we choose, whether they be families, collectives, trade organizations, or governments. What we do not have the right to do is to force others into our hierarchies.

Even mom and pops are owned by individuals who frequently hire employees and are driven primarily by profit. They are capitalistic enterprises.

What do you mean by "citizen"? If you mean persons living in a geographic area who share common traits with other persons in said region than of course there are citizens.

Loading...