BTC Up On This News?
The bitcoin price has notably moved up today - the current value is around $2800.
It is hard to say exactly why it has increased but one contributory factor may be that 2 major exchanges, Coinbase (GDAX exchange) and Bitstamp, have come out against Bitcoin Cash (BCC).
BCC is the hard fork that ViaBTC (a mining pool and exchange) are planning on August the 1st. The release of the news about BCC a few days ago caused a mini crash in the bitcoin just as the price seemed to be recovering on the locking in of BIP 91.
According to the Bitstamp statement on their website:
"In the event of a User Activated Hard Fork (UAHF) on 1 August or thereafter, it is important to clarify that Bitstamp would not be in a position to support Bitcoin Cash (BCC), the coin associated with the Bitcoin Cash proposal. In Bitstamp’s view, BCC is an alt-coin and the decision to list BCC tokens remains at our sole discretion at all times.
If Bitstamp chooses to list BCC, we would decide at our own discretion on what course of action to take with balances deriving from the hard fork. BCC would also be subject to the same due diligence processes as for any other alt-coin, which requires time and careful planning. For this reason, Bitstamp is not in a position to support BCC, nor will Bitstamp be liable for any BCC sent to Bitstamp."
According to the email from Coinbase:
"In the event of two separate blockchains after August 1, 2017 we will only support one version. We have no plans to support the Bitcoin Cash fork. We have made this decision because it is hard to predict how long the alternative version of bitcoin will survive and if Bitcoin Cash will have future market value.
This means if there are two separate digital currencies – bitcoin (BTC) and bitcoin cash (BCC) – customers with Bitcoin stored on Coinbase will only have access to the current version of bitcoin we support (BTC). Customers will not have access to, or be able to withdraw, bitcoin cash (BCC)."
So far most of the other exchanges have not actually talked specifically about BCC and have only put out statements saying that they will disable deposits and withdrawals of Bitcoin to protect their customers.
My Thoughts
The Kind Interpretation
If we interpret the motives of the creators in a positive light we might say that it is a bluff that is designed to create further impetus for an actual block size increase.
Although, Segwit will almost certainly activate in the next few weeks, there is doubt to how much scaling room it will create.
What is truly needed is an increase in bitcoin block size - this is the 2x part of Segwit 2x and will come in the form of a hardfork in mid November.
A kind interpretation of BCC may therefore be that it is an opening salvo in trying to put psychological pressure on those who might resist larger blocks, i.e. to see the 2MB block size of Segwit 2x as a compromise.
(BCC goes straight to an 8MB block size).
People may more readily accept 2MB blocks in November to avoid the risk of other splits.
The More Cynical Point of View
I am more cynical though. I see BCC as a ploy to make money when the market is in a vulnerable position.
This is confirmed by the way that ViaBTC is trading Bitcoin Cash futures.
I also reject the idea that BCC will be free money for holders of Bitcoin.
Any value that it has will come it's association with Bitcoin (even though I agree with the sentiment that it is little more than another altcoin which just happens to have the same transaction history as bitcoin).
Further there is a strong possibility that BCC will have a much shorter life than the average altcoin. - For one thing it will be much less secure than Bitcoin and a 51% attack on the network is a real possibility.
Secondly we already have a whole host of altcoins that can actually scale, have real world proven value and in many cases have superior technology.
Seen as an altcoin BCC is just not a serious contender. So in my opinion BCC will not last very long.
Free Money?
When BCC does collapse it will leave those naive investors who bought it thinking it had a future, holding an asset that has little or no value.
Indeed there is a strong possibility that it will be worthless as mining for it could completely collapse.
These people will ultimately pay the price for ViaBTC's money making scheme.
Those who think that the split will be giving them free money should take this into consideration. We already have a reputation for scams and this will play into that.
For this reason I have no plans to split my BTC off for free BCC.
That may be a poor financial decision but I would rather not contribute to people being scammed and that is essentially how I see it.
At some point we need to consider what is best for the community as a whole rather than just our own pockets.
I think it is, to some degree, the selfish mercenary attitude of parties like those involved with BCC that has held back greater cryptocurrency adoption and the more it continues, the longer we will hold ourselves back from going mainstream.
As always I may be completely wrong and BCC may become the next Litecoin. What do you think?
Thank you for reading
You've clearly not been on the bitcoin forums on reddit or bitcointalk for the last two years.
The bitcoin community has been screaming for a blocksize increase for years and recently the blocks got full and bitcoin went from being almost 90% of the total crypto cap to less than 40%. This was because blocks were full and transactions weren't going through unless you paid really high fees.
What makes this worse is that it by design of the Blockstream team that hijacked Core development. If you're not aware, Blockstream is funded by AXA, a multinational insurance giant and bail-out recipient and 3rd largest company in the world. AXA is absolutely against bitcoin as a p2p cash system. They are paying Blockstream to "block the stream"of transactions and build a patented system on top that only uses the real blockchain as a settlement layer for the banks and/or very rich. This isn't my opinion, they openly state it.
Bitcoin Cash is the result of the actual community that wants to scale bitcoin the way it was intended to. Its not a scam or trick to make money. Its regular people like myself that want bitcoin to become the p2p digital cash that frees us from ever having to use the banking system and their fake money again.
You clearly only see and read what you want to read.
No it's not. It's a cash grab. If the community were really interested in this they would have supported BU. They didn't. It may be in your interest to pretend otherwise but it is nothing to do with the ideals you are professing.
Well, its clear you're a shill when you are just making arguments that aren't backed by any facts.
Like this:
Argument: The community DOES support BU and BCC
Facts: BU has support of ~%50 hashpower and has almost 900 active nodes. BCC is trading at 20% of bitcoin's price PRE-FORK and already has more nodes than the segwit2x implementation, btc1.
Use facts, otherwise you're just trolling.
The only troll here has consistently been you. Either learn how to disagree with people in a civil manner or get muted and flagged.
That's nice. Disagree and you'll get kicked out.
Especially if you bring facts to an argument. ;)
ROFL FACTS? Nobody has a right to act like a troll. Sad that you don't understand the distinction, that said I wouldn't be surprised if you are just the same guy using a different account.
Facts. Do you know how to use them?
I invite you to come to the investing site http:btcpop.co
Drop on in, and say something along these lines, about bitcoin cash. You'd get torn to shred in minutes. :)
Why would that bear any relevance to anything? Hardly surprising that people on your chosen forum would have the same opinions as you. That does not make them right or correct. If you had anything of relevance to add you would have done it by now. Instead you have made two pointless comments.
My thoughts exactly...
I opened this article looking for a conversation about BCC not being supported by coinbase, and it turns out it is a small blocker looking to FUD on BCC...
Small transaction fees, fast confirmations. It astounds me that there are people who don't want that.
Lol what bullshit. I am not a small blocker but to be honest it is hardly surprising that you guys would spread your crap here.
Sorry bud. I don't know if you are agreeing or disagreeing.
I don't have enough time for an hour long video. :D
I completely agree with your sentiment. BCC will derive any of its value from association with BTC and BTC will suffer. Its extremely unlikely that both will be sucessful longer term. There is no new use case for BCC and it is just basically saying it is a better version of BTC. However, BTC has first mover advantage, which is also why it is so far ahead in terms of capitalisation, compared to other alts. The only real world dealings with crypto are via BTC and whilst I dont think it will continue like this indefinately, it will in the near term and that gives BTC a major advantage.
I expect either BCC to crash through the floor as everyone sells their 'free' coins, or for it to stumble along for 6months or so, slowly losing value until it eventually dies. This is not a comment on the standard of the product, rather on the economics of the situation!
I think it is a mone grab by ViaBTC that will blow up in their face.
Once everyone sell off their Bitcoin, its value will be near zero
which unfortunately might drag down the price of BTC
But BCC will survive for 6 months if only as leverage to make sure the 2x part of Segwit2x get implemented
I'm beginning to think you are right. I hope it does not damage
I think you are right. Excellent points.
I'm not sure I agree. For example, an exchange that changes bitcoin to fiat would have to implement new wallets, processes and change its way of operation to habdle new coins, of which this is. It will open them up to more risk etc, all for a coin they may well thinknis going to tank and disappear. If BCC becomes dominant (unlikely in my view) then I'm sure they will be forced to start trading it.
For now, people should not be keeping coins in exchanges anyway, so it's a non issue. After 1 Aug if you want to exchange your BCC coins, just transfer to an exchange that will accept them and sell. No issue!
I believe that this is all just an opportunity to buy current beaten down Altcoins.
I agree.
It seems like everyone is pumping bitcoin so they have an opportunity to benefit from exchanges like bittrex who are offering bitcoin cash to a 1:1 ratio.
What I'm fearful is the backlash and the rubberband effect it will have. I feel like people see no value in BCC, they only want it as they see it as a way to get free money so it will almost inevitably get dumped.
I guess we will have to wait and see but at the moment there is a huge altcoin dump and squeeze as people are craving to get them hands on some 'free money'.
However, with all this new money generated (if there is any) I think people instead of converting it to fiat may just convert it to all the altcoins that have dropped dramatically in value due to this bitcoin dominance growing.
Let's hope everything turns out to be a positive @thecryptofiend but I think it is pretty sketchy how people are willing to risk keeping their coins in exchanges just so they can benefit from BCC.
Bitcoin will rise until Aug 1st. The altcoins will fall at the same time as people transfer.
After the shapshot, btc will probably rise a little more when investers realise the sky didn't fall.
Btc-c will drop as people sell off their free money and the other alt coins will stabilise to the levels they were previously at.
I think that is exactly what will happen. Further long term holders who have huge amounts of bitcoin from the early days will likely dump it at any price in order to protect their investments.
Further I think there is a strong possibility of a 51% attack.
That is a possibility but it could also lead to a massive rise in Bitcoin too.
I think it will be positive except for the people who buy into to BCC - they could well lose their money.
Bitcoin Cash is going to die! Sell it as soon as you get it!
looks loke bittrex will support both or make sure btc hilders have both coins if there is chainsplit.
Great for bitcoin. But I wonder why mostly all altcoins moved down..
@hansen7... It is being suggested that owners of alt coins are selling so that they can buy Bitcoin AND receive "free" BCC on Aug. 1st. However I tend to agree with the author, @TheCryptoFiend, that BCC will fade away and perhaps very quickly.
Time will Tell... Cheers !!
Use HitBTC.com and I'll trade you my Bitcoins for your Bitcoin Cash.
Good point!
Good point. They may well be selling alts for this reason.
I think after Aug 1st you'll see the opposite as people sell BTC and BCC to get back into their original altcoin positions. Probably a few months later you'll see a slightly weaker BTC and a collapsing BCC.
Alt-coins are going to become a lot less relevant now that Bitcoin is being freed.
How's it being freed?
Bitcoin Cash is forking back to the original vision of bitcoin, rather than adopting govt-sponsored Segwit.
He believes that BCC will solve all the world's problems.
that's true people thinking they going to get free alt coins bitcoin is going to blow up in price I think over next couple days as everyone tries to get in and there all going to loose out in the end pure speculation that there going to be on the band wagon
Not sure but it does happen sometimes when bitcoin rises.
If BCC is worth anything significant, I'd like for Coinbase to sell and credit me a portion of the profits made off my Bitcoin. We'll see if that happens
I doubt it will on both points.
There is only one Bitcoin.
Exactly.
Thanks for sharing this great post. I hope this will help lot of people to take smart decision about weather or not they will keep their BTC in coinbase or any other site before 1st August.
Me too.
Very thoughtful opinion, now I'm actually worried for the future .. but I'm hoping Aug 1 is where we see the real deal @thecryptofiend you will keep always keep up posted (:
Steem on my friend
I don't think there is any need to worry.
I just hope Steem goes up !!
I think it will.
I will thank you on Aug 1 for being right :D
all crypto is going to blow up in price over the next few years
"even though I agree with the sentiment that it is little more than another altcoin which just happens to have the same transaction history as bitcoin"
I find this an odd position, although I don't think BCC will necessarily be the winner.
Surely you know that BCC is the real Bitcoin, the only one that matches the white paper, and that SegWit and off-chain transactions violate the very definition of Bitcoin?
No I disagree. It is a cynical money grab. Further if you are talking about the original whitepaper then neither the 8MB block size is entirely consistent with that, nor is the fact that one single exchange and mining pool is doing it. Let's not pretend that this is sticking to some kind of ideal. If you really believe that then there are better alternatives such as Bitcoin Unlimited.
Congratulations @thecryptofiend!
Your post was mentioned in the hit parade in the following category:
Thank you!
Overall, I agree with your sentiments. "I see BCC as a ploy to make money when the market is in a vulnerable position." Exactly how I feel about it. Really sad actually
You couldn't be more wrong about the reason for Bitcoin Cash.
She could if she was you:) . It is hilarious how you are trying to convince everyone how great BCC is. We will see.
Yes.
you don't think the price jump is down to yesterdays news of the CFTC giving LedgerX the go ahead to run btc derivatives, clearing the way for big money to flow in?
I hadn't heard about that - it could be part of it too.
@thecryptofiend - Though I have not been in the crypto world for too long, I have seen the way people try to manipulate altcoins with smaller market caps. I would, therefore, firmly adopt the cynical stand you have taken rather than the nice stand. The new forked coin will definitely be more susceptible to 51% attacks as you point out and also to pump and dump operations. Your point about altcoins being available with superior technology is also valid. Why would we go invest in a bitcoin fork if we wanted something without more market cap but with better technology - there are a lot of options. Thanks for this heads up. Upvoted.
Update at my end - I am traveling and so have very spotty internet connections. Still - wanted to share my thoughts about one of my photos with Steemians so I have posted a blog 'War and Peace: Iron birds' with my original photo and musings. As always, I request you to visit the blog whenever you have a few minutes free. Your comments will help me complete my thought process on the topic. Thanks
Thanks.
Good post... I'm intrigued by all of it... if we could only predict the future. I do see both sides of "the coin".
If we could see the future we would all be rich.
Infighting within the Bitcoin community wont help. What we need is a strong Bitcoin and not a split. It would be sickening to think that Bitcoin dies off along with all the other alts and something like Ripple survives with the Banks taking charge again!!
That would be the true nightmare scenario because it would mean we have gained nothing.
Very informative and useful to readers. Nice post. Hard to predict what will happen. So just hold and keep your Bitcoins safe (private keys) . Get all BTC out of exchanges and hope for the best. In the end, I feel everything will be ok and BTC will continue its inevitable rise.
I think so. The people who will lose out are likely those who think BCC has some kind of future and hold on to it.
It's unfortunate, but I think you are right.
Good points of view. I was back and forth on whether I should position my BTC to receive BCC, but think I will just stand pat. Crypto needs to get past the moment as it is just holding us back.
Exactly and making a small amount of money now in this way may ultimately be preventing us from making larger amounts in the future.
i am following hard fork related news from last 2 weeks...its really great informative...In my opinion..bitcoin is the bitcoin ..no other coin can take over the bitcoin..i will hold the old version bitcoin
I agree.
Thanks @thecryptofiend once again a thoughtful and concise article.
Hold fast and Steem on.
Cheers
Thank you!
why btc up and all altcoins down
Someone else suggested that people may be sellings alts so they can buy more bitcoin. That way on August 1st they will get more BCC which they can then sell.
you are right it is possible
I keep wondering while bitcoin keeps mooning other coins are dropping... what could be the cause?
People may be selling altcoins to buy more bitcoin so they get more BCC to sell when it launches. They probably see it as free money. It is a good opportunity to get some altcoin bargains.
Market is crazy today.. I believe HardFork won't happen on August...
The BCC hard fork will happen. I just don't think it will have any significant effect or indeed last.
I hope you are right!
So do I.
thanks man, maybe it s hard for you to believe but I am feeling better! you are the expert here!
Excellent. I am not an expert though. Just giving my personal opinion.
i think the price of bitcoin is going up because people are buying bitcoin so they can get more bitcoin cash on august 1st. it will be interesting to see what happens to the price after the bitcoin cash coins are distributed.
That's possible but even if they are I doubt they will sell them off in any large number afterwards. I don't think BCC has any long term future and I feel sorry for the people who will end up holding the BCC bag.
I have been trying to put all of this into some form of context also. I think yu do a great job of breaking it down. Whilst I am not completely solid on my views on this matter, I do drift more into the cynical side of things. I wonder what BCC can provide that isn't already available? Maybe a lot, but I'm not sold.
I think you are right to be cynical. IMO it is just a money making scheme.
Wow. Many make small gifts for @naquoya
And I make a small gift MEW
I really like your work!
Especially the pict I'm interested to see the making of images, and music that's so refreshing!
Resteem =)
The current scenario is getting more confused as people are now after BCC more after they said they will give it additional wrt. BTC.
Forgive the newb question, but doesn't the fact that ViaBTC is issuing BCC futures prove that the hard fork will happen? Obviously it's no indication of its successful, but why are people still questioning whether it will happen at all?
Well it nothing is proven until it happens but I think it will.
Good thoughts, and well formatted post!
Thank you.
Is it good to have a bitcoin address with Coinbase?
Yes that's good BUT Do not keep your Bitcoins on exchanges, ever. Buy it then move it to a wallet that you can export the private keys, use a paper wallet or hardware wallet like trezor. If you don't control your private keys you don't control your money. Coinbase is a centralized organization and in this case, exactly like a bank. Hope this helps
Not sure what you mean. Are you asking if it is good to use Coinbase? I don't know because I have not used them much.
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Great news thank you for sharing dear friend :))
You're welcome.
:))
Thanks for the interesting read, resteemed!
Thank you!
i think there will be no affect on bitcoin. thanks for sharing this great post
You're welcome!
Seems like bittrex is supporting BCC, so moving your BTC there will give you 2 coins...
Not really:
I am really confused about it... They first state they will give us 2 coins, but they dont guarantee we can trade the BCC?
Who did? Bittrex have not said they will give two coins.
Yeah, they have.
"If you have a Bitcoin (BTC) balance on Bittrex during the BCC UAHF time on August 1st, 5:20am (12:20pm UTC), you will be credited the equivalent amount of Bitcoin Cash (BCC) on a 1:1 basis. i.e. 1 BTC on Bittrex held during the on-exchange snapshot will get you 1 BCC. Full details below."
Snagged from here: https://support.bittrex.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000808991-Statement-on-Bitcoin-Cash-BCC-
Interesting. I hadn't seen that.
..
Upvoted and also resteemed :]
Thanks!
amazing post dear
Thanks dear.
cool
Could be.
Investors too, move in mysterious ways where money is concerned.
Yes.
people refuse to take heave!
Not sure what you mean.
to rise and fall in rhythmically alternate movements...altcoins. You're too intelligent to not understand what I meant! Hmmm maybe ( ) cheers!!!
Obviously I'm not intelligent enough or you are full of BS.
"Obviously I'm not intelligent enough or you are full of BS."
Im full of bull shit in regards to me saying bcc is an altcoin? And many people should be advised aka take heave? WTF you talking about man be clear, about the BS statement..thank you waiting for clarity!
Read what you said again. It is easy to get the wrong impression so let's just leave it there.
I know it's probably a terminally stupid question,
but what I haven't been able to figure out is how is it possible some service providers will support the split and some will not - and the Not's just won't get any ( FREE ) BCC at all (?)
Because ( to me ) that means if you are at Service A, who supports both,
you will receive an equal number to BCC as you have BTC.
And if you are at Service B, who doesn't support BCC, you get nothing.
So here is my Confusion:
who is getting the Free BCC on Service B ?
is service B keeping them for themselves somehow ?
Because if Service A, is passing them out,
that implies to me, service B could have had them for Free,
chose not to support them ( coinbase ), and so am i to believe
they just didn't get any free BCC tokens ?
I mean seems like someone is getting them. Seems like there would be a budget of 1 BCC for every 1 BTC above ground, and so I return to my original question, who's getting all the tokens from the Service B's out there.
I know Service B ( publicly ) doesn't support BCC, but that doesn't mean through some shenanigans
they are not somehow still getting them, or does it.... (?)
PEACE
Not necessarily. They could just be left unclaimed.
seems like such a waste, i don't even have 1 bitcoin, not by choice they just aren't giving them away anymore. And now that I won't be getting any free BCC either it just sucks ...
but thank you for your expertise...
You're welcome. They were never given away though.
well even at 100 per coin, let alone .10, it's like giving them away,
I am sitting on 2700+ ounces of silver, and I could almost commit
suicide ( lol ) because I'm so tired of the Silver Suppression.
I would like to trade some silver bullion for working crypto,
I want to mine and play in some other crypto programs, but
other than my silver, i am a broke disabled iraq vet with little
opportunity for growth. So I'm trying to learn, maybe get lucky.
I was thinking of waiting until the 15th of August to buy a few hundred
USD in Bitcoin ( before it goes to 4200-4400 ) thereafter.
But I'd like to have about 1200 to work with in some programs,
like bitconnect or control finance. My silver isn't paying anything
and hasn't for 10 years since I got sick and lost my job.
I need an income...
Checks out, @rogerwilson. Damn cryptos :^). I want to see more folks like You on this channel.
Currently I am curating inteviews with blockchain people and also steemians.
So question: Who would you like to see approached in a life conversation?
Thank you but I am not worthy. I am not appreciated by my family, and I've carried a heavy heart for more years and more reasons than I can remember. Anyone would be better interview than me.
I will just say I turned to Crypto because i believe in the block-chain. I believe in honesty and doing right by others.
But at the same time I don't often feel welcome by others, including family, even if that's not their intention, somehow I'm messed up like that. In hindsight I chalk it up to how I learned to cope with others who talk down to me. I fade them away from my life.
It's largely why I became a recluse over 10 years ago as well as a silver stacker.
And because I'd gotten very sick, I really missed out on the beginning of bitcoin. I'd heard about it but my focus was steady.
I just knew Ag, Silver was going to bring a brighter tomorrow. I was wrong. I'm tired. I'm 47 and I feel 74 due to living in chronic illness for 10 years.
I guess most of all, what I really wanted was to prove to my family that although I took my own path, I still made it. I wanted respect, and I assumed would translate to love.
I don't know what else to say. But thank you listening.
That's what altcoins are for.
Stop calling bitcoin cash (BCC) wrong totally , bitcoin cash code (BCH ) [img]
[/img]
https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/212
You miss leading about bitcoin cash ( Bcc ) with it !!!
I have no idea what you are talking about. I'm not misleading anyone.
Wow. Many make small gifts for @bitcoin
And I make a small gift MEW
I really like your work!
Especially the pict I'm interested to see the making of images, and music that's so refreshing!
Resteem =)
Thank you!
Hi, maybe you should make a list of exchanges where btc holders will get free bcc.
Why don't you do it?
I like your thoughts. I totally agree with you
Thanks.
Wait, did someone already say that even though they are not "supporting" the fork that they will still be receiving the Bitcoin cash (because they own your private keys) and you just won't get it as customers.. Hmmm. Seems janky to me.
No you misunderstand. They will need to do some work to install BCC - it won't just magically appear. Now they might consider it to not be worth the hassle or they could do it and keep the BCC themselves, there is no way to know for sure.
"They will still be receiving the Bitcoin cash (because they own your private keys)" -- Just my opinion..
They don't own your private keys. They have the private keys to the wallet which has your bitcoins in it on the exchange (which is their wallet). Doesn't mean they will redeem them though.
The whole point of crypto is so you don't have to worry about "trusting" whether or not some entity or another person that has control over your funds will operate in a manner that is in your best interest. The entire blockchain is a TRUSTLESS concept. Having to think about it means, you have left the concept and returned to "normal" concepts in transactions. If YOU don't have the private keys to to your wallet along with zero other parties -- you don't have control. You can say they don't OWN your private keys and they don't NEED TO.. all they need is CONTROL which obviously they have.
That has nothing to do with the original point. It is obvious if you use a centralised exchange you lose control so I don't see the point in stating the obvious.
My point was.. the same one I made at first, I think they will do whatever they need to do to support Bitcoin Cash and it won't be in support of their customers. Meaning, in my opinion, Coinbase will definitely upgrade or adapt their backend and Coinbase users won't benefit from it. They have no obligation to their users to pass through that benefit or do anything that wasn't already etched in the previous agreement made between its users and the company.
Awesome post.
I 100% fully totally agree.
Thank you.
I think all altcoins go up after Aug 1st
Possibly.
thanks for the info.