The big dreaded EIP has landed, you have had time to play with it. Granted it is still a bit new and will take a month or more for rewards to stabilize. As behaviors change, will take even longer for rewards to stabilize again. The EIP is a long term change and not something that will result in an immediate turn-around.
That being said, I know a lot of people were against the changes.
Have you changed your mind?
Do you still hate the EIP?
Free Downvotes
One of the most notable changes is the increased in downvoting. Trending looks totally different today than it did 7 days ago. Posts are trending organically and with far fewer rewards than a week ago. Many of the posts on trending are not the result of bid bots.
Have you downvoted spam and abuse since HF21?
Will you?
I know a lot of people don't feel comfortable with downvotes, giving or receiving. Without downvotes, we would have what is happening on Whaleshares.
Users have given up and are making posts called Account Preservation Posts where the sole purpose is to extract as much value from their stake for themselves as possible. No one can challenge them or do anything about it. Because they are no longer allowing downvotes.
Downvotes allow the community to use their full influence to decide what should be on trending, what shouldn't be, and what deserves rewards.
That is your right as a stakeholder!
That is also your responsibility. If you don't execute your ability to downvote content that is over rewarded, stolen, low or no effort, and just bad then those tokens are lost and will never get in the hands of those who deserve them. Every token that goes to shit content is a token that will never make it into the hands of a good content producer.
50/50 Curation
50/50 rewards is a key part of the EIP, it gives stakeholders a more rewarding and fair avenue to assist in the distribution of rewards while making the gap between pure selfishness and engaging in distribution much smaller. When a curator would make around 8 cents for every $1 vote it was extremely difficult to not take advantage of the other options like self voting (75-100 cents per $1 vote) and bid bot delegation (45-85 cents per $1). The gap was just too big and made greed nearly unavoidable.
Finally, the curve
A lot of people still don't fully understand the curve as it is really complicated and has been poorly explained. Many users believe their vote has gone down as much as 40-50% as the result of the curve.
Your vote has not changed at all!
I'm serious, when you vote you assign x amount of rshares to a post (or comment) based on your steem power, voting power, and weight of the vote. That hasn't changed in HF21 (also HF22).
What has changed is how much a post (or comment) is worth with x amount of rshares. When the amount of rshares on a post is low (under 1 steem), they yield fewer rewards. As the number of rshares increases on a post (or comment) the value of those rshares goes up. This is the same for everyone and every post.
There are two scenarios where you will see that your "vote has gone down". That is when self voting with less than a $3 vote or voting on comments (which typically don't have a lot of other votes).
While I am not upset about the first, the second does bother me. I believe comments are a big part of engagement and are the lifeblood of social media. I wish there was a solution to have the spam-prevention of the curve and the ability to reward good comments with small rewards without taking such a hit on your voting power. The truth is, the amount of spam and abuse that is discouraged by the curve is far higher than the number of rewards on comments. Spam has overtaken the platform but rewarding comments is a relatively rare action.
It is still early to see where the EIP will take us, but you can already see changes immediately. Most bid bots are idle, there is very little competition to use them, trending isn't full of $200 shit posts, users are downvoting bad content, larger stakeholders are voting more than themselves, good content producers are getting more votes (more rewards will come as we come closer to an equilibrium), there is less low reward spam, it is now possible for a user to organically hit trending.
We are nowhere near perfect, we have a lot of work to do and the EIP may need to change again to tweak the numbers closer to an ideal economy. The thing is, we are already seeing a lot of positive improvements in just a couple of days. The EIP is a long term change and will take time to really show the results, so it will likely get a lot better over time.
What do you think?
Speak up below, regardless if you support or don't support the EIP, your voice is valuable. Use it!
I am seeing a few people saying it is not worth posting or commenting now, but even small accounts can still earn something. We need to wait and see how things are when it's settled down a bit.
A few people who bought votes on low quality posts have been complaining, but we've seen rage quitting before. I'm happy to see the community downvoting over-valued posts, but maybe this should happen to some of the posts by witnesses and projects too. Why should their posts be worth $100+? Some of them are still feeding the bid bots.
I'm not sure we want trending to be all posts about Steem. That has little appeal for most new visitors.
I am using my downvotes on anything that seems excessive, but I may avoid those who could do me real damage by retaliation. Big accounts are still self-voting and that can look greedy. They can vote for others and still do well from curation.
I'm also rethinking my voting strategy. I like to reward commenters, but a meaningful vote takes more vp now. I may vote up their posts instead with maybe a token vote on the comment.
New Steem is different. Let's see if it can be better.
I agree about the Steem projects and trending. Unfortunately, it is hard to avoid. People want to let people know when something new is available, and trending is best for that, but on the other hand, we don't want trending full of Steem meta.
I think communities will help a lot in that regard, you can subscribe to a Steem meta community to know what is going on without having trending flooded. We are a ways off from that and we still don't really know how communities will work so there is no guarantee there either.
I get it. And I completely agree.
We have a big problem, with bid bots.. Especially, the one like OCD with curators which are supposed to be watching on abuse.
Take for example this post:
https://steemit.com/steem/@svemirac/hf22-is-ready-to-go
Do you think this post worth $48.04 ?
In my opinion that post wasn't even supposed to be boosted with bid bots. But no one downvoted it a part @justineh and me.
On paper this HF has been very well thought out but will come up against the human greediness.
I just did. I hadn't seen it before. You can't really expect everyone to see everything downvote everything. The system won't be perfect but it can still be a lot better the more people do their part. Even just you and @justineh downvoting it is better than nothing.
I haven’t done any downvoting yet, still understanding the process.
But who is the final arbiter of quality content?
Let us wait for the entire community to be accustomed to this new changes.
Some can make educational campaigns about “quality” content. Post it. (The irony will be, that post will then get downvoted I’m sure)
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You are.
Me, the community.
I wrote a post about it and I'm sure that some big fish have read it. Any results so far. Indeed I am being mocked.
And you know the one thing I took away from all that? The same rules don't apply for everyone!
In any case, Thanks for showing your concern.
It seems cynical to post about the hardfork whilst doing what it is supposed to deter! I don't think any post on Steem is really worth $50 given the size of the audience. It is almost impossible to make that much without bots unless a whale or two are your friends.
Actually, it is fun, to look through trending and look out for targets, that fit into your criterias, low retaliation chance, lot's of bibots, already downvoted by steem whales.
But of course, all this can backfire at some point.
I think it is the start of an improvement in Steem. Those who had been buying votes before will have to move away from that as they will just lose more money. Other schemes will spring up, but we have power to affect them. The big accounts can deal with those who retaliate.
I’m earning almost nothing with my 5,000 Steem power. Luckily I am making more on my Videos these days.
I have the @tenkminnows voting on a load of people with about 6k SP delegated and that makes around 3 Steem per day just from curation. It will be a minnow in a few months. We need to rethink our voting strategy if we are going for optimal rewards, but I do not do that with my main account.
Yeah... as far as earning any money here on Steemit, I guess I will experiment a bit with my upvotes .... trying to only Upvote the very best Original content and be happy making a few pennies each day. I am earning more over on Publish0X these days with my posts....https://www.publish0x.com/?a=BDbDqjxdl2
I don't have time to start playing with another site. I have built up something with Steem and am happy to keep going with that.
That’s a good idea. I am probably too diversified.
They're saying that in posts and comments? /facepalm
I hope it will get better day by day, planning to power up another 10k steem.
Everybody should be armed with higher sp and good common sense and fair play.
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The separate downvote Mana was the "missing link" I think. Because pre-HF21/22 had to choose between either positive rewarding (including curation rewards) and negative rewarding (without any curation rewards, and hindering the ability to upvote something else), as a result downvotes were relatively rare. When downvotes are rare and somebody does receive one, they can easily be offended, retaliate or leave, and/or take things personal.
But if you look at Youtube for example, even top quality videos get downvotes. Downvoting there is an integral part of the platform culture and it's about the ratio up/down that functions as a content quality metric.
Post HF21/22 downvoting as a separate tool, where an occasional downvote does not hinder the ability to upvote good content and hence the need to choose between downvoting X over upvoting Y is absent, it's everyone's "duty" to help disincentivise posting and upvoting utter junk. And as more and more people, accounts large and small, utilize their downvotes, it might also become an integral part of culture on Steem as well.
Yes, I am still against EIP. I was ambivalent about 50/50 and downvotes, so if you count those as successes, great. But the curve has made many users' steem experiences much less enjoyable. You try to rephrase the idea of votes being worth a smaller amount - that they're still worth the same number of rshares, just those rshares are worth a smaller amount when applied to a post with fewer rshares, but people's understanding is still correct. You can say that you don't mind that it makes "self-votes" worth less and note what you think is the corner case of comments being worth less... but in the end, it boils down to: I am encouraged to upvote content I don't care about because the author regularly receives rewards at least approaching the threshold, and I am consequently discouraged from upvoting not only comments, but also posts I love because the author has no track record of receiving rewards above $4. In fact, prior to HF21 (now 22, I guess), nearly all of my votes went to content from users who I liked engaging with but who did not receive much notice from others... not because their content was bad, but because they, too, belonged to communities that didn't interest whales. These communities draw lots of people in, many devoted to building communities organically. The fact that they drew the attention of no whales is not a sign that they did not bring value to the blockchain. Just that their content wasn't targeted to whales.
We talk about mass adoption? That's who the masses are. Even if trending is doing well and bidbots are going idle, wherever those freed up rewards are headed, it isn't into the accounts of the rank and file.
Also, I dunno. I feel hard pressed to NOT use a bot. I never have before, but now, seeing my rewards (from real people who read my blog) get cut in half, makes me want to rescue some of their value for them and to use a bot. I tried it a couple times. It made me feel yucky. But I feel like I have to. I don't expect to get noticed by a whale. It's not my goal. I love the curies I've gotten in the past, but engaging with my growing community, hosting joyful joke-telling contests, and sharing fast fiction are the things I love. I don't mind if I only get appreciation from the folks who appreciate me, but I don't like that it is the wrong thing for them to spend their VP on now. That pains me, too.
Do you understand what the curve has done? Do you understand how this makes it harder to engage with new users and good content? Do you understand how this motivates people to just follow the crowd rather than embrace one's own quirky preferences?
It is very hard to be a happy non-whale, non-abuser in this ecosystem. Were I an abuser, I'd be perfectly happy botting up to just below the trending threshold. The return is better than before because so much is so far below the curve.
I agree with that the curve is awful. What's the purpose? Why dividing stake across multiple accounts should be discouraged at all? Reducing rewards to authors that almost never gets above $3 per post organically is not worth whatever the purpose is.
It is though. Mathematically it is literally going to increase every other payout, including the small ones. If there is enough taken off of those big milking payouts (and the experience of the last few days suggests this is very possible) then it can more than make up for the effect of the curve on the rank and file, or at a minimum reduce that effect greatly.
Your attitude is defeatist.
Firstly, I hope you're right. It hasn't happened yet. But in the next week or so we should see the impact. But it hasn't happened yet.
Secondly, defeatist? I'm here. I'm fighting for what I think would be a positive change. We disagree about the impact of the rewards curve. I'm fighting for it to be restored to linearity.
I understand that you disagree, but "defeatist" is the wrong word.
Maybe you aren't truly defeatist but just don't quite understand how downvoting works.
When rewards are removed from posts such as happened in a huge scale in the past week those rewards are redistributed to every other payout. Since the top posts are getting rekt by downvotes and the bid bots are complaining they aren't even getting vote buyers at all (because buyers are afraid of getting downvoted), then to say that it doesn't benefit the rank and file is simply incorrect. Certainly thousands, and possibly tens and thousand of STEEM have been redistributed to the rank and file. We've also seen at least one initiative promising to go after vote circles which will send even more rewards to the rank and file.
I'm frankly more concerned about what happens longer term and whether we will fall back into complacency once the novelty of slamming Trending and other milkers with downvotes wears off. In that case, it will stop helping the rank and file and we'll have to figure out what to do next. But for now it absolutely is helping the rank and file.
I suspect that it must be helping the middle earners and non-downvoted top earners mostly. I can only tell you what I've observed. In the weeks prior to HF21, I saw the people in my community (mainly freewriters) often had posts in the $0.30-$0.80 range. Those same users now generally have payouts in the $0.15-$0.60. Obviously there are many factors, but the overall truth of the matter is that, while I'm all for the downvoting of the top spam posts, the most vulnerable users are still seeing smaller payouts due to the curve.
I get that those rewards are being redistributed, but there just isn't enough to negate the effect of the curve (and because of the curve, more of that value is going to the next highest tier of payouts). But maybe eventually there will be.
Anyways, kudos to everyone for doing the downvoting! I hope that, indeed, no one loses interest and furthermore that everyone ups their curation game even more to reward the users not only who have the "best" posts, but also those who have posts that appeal to users who aren't likely to be whales.
Middle earners are rank-and-file, almost by definition. The very lowest earners are at an extreme, just like the highest. But the way the math works out, downvotes help everyone proportionately. If middle earners gain, say 20%, then low earners gain the same 20% (but smaller absolute amount of course).
Also, I never said it was completely negating the curve, but the downvotes do help. The curve exists to serve a purpose. Punishing responsible low-earning users isn't the intent at all, but is an unavoidable side effect. By downvoting a lot of abuse, some of that undesired side-effect can at least be offset, which is a good thing. Without the massive downvoting, the low rewards at the bottom would be even lower. So, yes, I would say it is helping.
Upping curation game will hopefully happen too, but it will take longer. People need to organize curation initiatives, etc. Just slamming the obvious milkers and other abusers with downvotes is faster and easier.
Looks like we have a similar understanding, but different priorities. That's fine as long as we get there before too long.
But I would add that I'd like to see numbers. I've been asking for numbers since the announcement of EIP in HF21 and haven't seen them. It's too late for those to matter now, I guess (though I'd still like them... what percentage of the rewards pool was going to abuse?) The new numbers I'd like to see are:
Are middle earners rank and file? Which is to say, do most top level posts earn $4-10? Or is that actually still a part of the top echelon? Is the freewrite community an outlier, or are we the norm? I think we're the norm, but it's hard to know, but if we are, there must be a lot of regular users out there who are getting $0.20/post. To me, if that's more than 50% of the crowd, that's the rank and file.
I know it's not the intent, and I know the purpose, but is the cure worse than the disease? ATM, I'd say yes, especially considering that we didn't try the EIP without the curve first, which is what I'd like to see. Boy howdy.
I'm glad the downvotes help. They'd help even more in a linear reward curve. But sure, more curation. I'd even love to see a whale make a whitelist of "responsible low-earning users" to give those $0.20 upvotes that get them back to where they were. That'd go a long way to ameliorating the unavoidable side effect.
Most abusers already do that prior to the change. Only the egomaniacs loved to see their own faces on the front page day in and day out.
And this change provides that much more incentive to do so. I think we'll see people who didn't do it prior to 21 engaging in more bidbot usage. People who were paragons of Steem good behavior.
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Well, it's up to them to figure out the 20 Steem ordeal so they actually make a ROI.
Has this been done for people with more money than the likes of me? Thanks mike
There is: Tipping.
It has worked in other crypto communities (though it is probably fair to say people are a lot more generous when the price is up) and could work on Steem too. It needs a low-friction UI.
If the current culture shift we have seen in the past couple days remains moving forward, in the long run, I’ll remain optimistic. If in a couple weeks things slide back to how they were I’ll just adapt and make changes.
Downvoting Pool
I’ve been downvoting a little bit not fully using it as of yet. Since I’m a little guy I need to still be smart about it. The great thing is hiding in numbers. There are still some posts I’d like to go flag but I’ll reframe from doing so as they are a bit more high risk.
It was interesting in the first couple days after a few giant posts went down for bid botting how more hesitant the market seemed and the lower barrier to entry was to get on trending. People seem to have more confidence in trying their luck again and it will be interesting to see how that plays out.
This was at least for now exactly what the platform needed.
Content Creator Shift
This year I’ve made some big changes, lots of trial and error, and got into some communities that were focused on similar goals as my own. Many people did not. I’ve had a lot of failures in getting to the next step but I expected it to be quite a long road and worth it when I do. We have known for a long time this HF was coming.
I think it’s a little too early to tell about the recent HF will be in the long run. I’ve been blessed so far under the new HF. I’ll admit better than I was expecting. If I end up earning around for the author portion where I was before or a little less I’ll feel like I’m heading in the right good direction.
There are some content creators out there I’ve noticed are not so happy. Truth is they been in decline for quite some time. They never adapted to using tribes. They are not in communities networking. They don’t promote others. They don’t promote their content outside of the Steem ecosystem. They don’t keep “some” SP. They want to be a “blogger” but I’m not quite sure they understand what that really is. Let alone being one on this platform.
I have not fully deployed my HF plans overall since we are still so recent into it. Some of it will take many months to build out as I have been for quite some time now. I am confident regardless that those plans will help ensure I further reduce my content costs, increase revenue sources, and remain completive in the market.
Overall I look forward to seeing the HF at play. Heck, I’ve even sold off some digital assets and power up around 500 SP on top of my normal post-earnings over the past couple weeks. If we lose some content creators along the way then tough we have been bleeding them for quite some time. I want people around who can adapt. Tot those who expect it to be easy. We need team players to boost each other and the platform up.
In my opinion, the results have been very positive for the most part. The 2.5 free downvotes have been an absolute game-changer. I haven't personally seen that much more manual curation by large accounts but it's too early to tell. Perhaps that's because there aren't too many large accounts to begin with. But I've seen @blocktrades put a few good posts to Trending by giving them a massive vote. Also, Trending seems to be populated by many ThreeSpeak posts upvoted by accounts controlled by ThreeSpeak. That's all very positive.
What I believe is that powerful app accounts actually tend to be among the best curators because their incentives are perfectly aligned with what the company owning the app is trying to achieve - provided that the app itself has a sound long-term business case of providing goods or services consumers are willing to pay fiat for.
I've used a few downvotes on trending topics that seemed egregiously bidbotted, but it makes me pretty nervous to do so because I don't want to make enemies of people who have the resources to make my life here miserable if they want to. But the trending page is still dominated by announcements (which are arguably "legitimate" uses of bidbots) or Steem boosterism, which I generally don't find interesting and which people who aren't already here would probably find off-putting so I think that's still not a great trending page if the goal is broader adoption even though it's "organically trending" among people who are already here. Maybe the old trending stuff was even worse, I only looked occasionally so I don't have a solid basis for comparison. It would be nice if some of the advocates for these changes would find a way to concretely measure how things are better/worse now.
I am still pretty negative about the economic changes.
The best outcome so far imo is that I actually want to look at Trending. Not because of its content necessarily, but because I am motivated to do something about how it looks.
This is only positive, no matter what reasons people may have to pay attention to it imo. Because with more eyeballs being on Trending the value of having one's content there goes up a lot compared to when most users take it for granted to be a depressing dumpster.
Hopefully, this result in more demand to have one's content at Trending generally. Combined with an additional effort to make sure that content that finds its way there are seen as deserving its spot by others.
So far so good imo. Although I'm still waiting to see the effect on comments and small user/community motivation. Still need a lot of work to ensure good curation takes place there.
I've noticed anecdotally that the people crying the loudest about the EIP have very little stake in the platform, and were just recycling it through bid bots to either leach rewards to send to an exchange or boost referral links. The actual people with a stake being downvoted have been much more quiet. Retaliation has been less than I expected, with a few exceptions like @slowwalker and his alts.
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@themarkymark I am building a new Steem app now which is specifically designed to capture more votes in 'comments' and thus overall engagement. It all has to do with reframing what the OP is trying to achieve. In our case relying less on a 'blog' format and instead incentivizing viewers to leave top-level comments which can be voted on by other viewers.
With this new 50/50 reward split, the idea should work even better for all! For those interested follow @blocktally.app (newly formed) and @doon as we will be starting to make posts to seed the idea and get interest in the next week or two.
It is a completely custom UI and backend (not your standard tribe) so it is taking a while to build but I intend to release the MVP the end of September/early October. In addition to the new user experience it will have its own Steem Engine token as well (naturally). Feel free to DM if you have any questions or interested in getting involved on the ground floor.
I like the downvote function, it brings balance to the reward distribution and hopefully will result in better content on the platform and better distribution for everyone,I've been focusing on bidbot users and probably will stick with only bidbot users, some of them have complained, but many understood and it's not like I have a vandetta against any of them, it's just that they are drinking too much from a finite pool and not leaving anything else to the rest of us. Ofc, I'm always afraid that I get some retaliation for a flag on a bidbot abusers, but I know that even if I did get a revenge flag some other community members would help me out, I trust the Steemian community.
The 50/50 curation isn't that bad, it allows one to focus on quality over quantity which is something that we really needed on STEEM, for example, today I'm focusing on curating and not caring so much about posting since I know I can engange and curate and receive as much as I probably would by posting something.
All-in-all I like this newsteem, now it just takes time to see what happens, human psychology is a hard thing to influence, which is what this fork is trying to do. Just look at countries, by changing a 1% there and giving one percent in another place a whole country can shift its habits, and STEEM is just like that, a country being built.
Depending on how this HF goes I might power up some STEEM, been seeing a lot of good things from some of the tribes, for example future plans to increase the tribe's token value.
Still in replay, cannot say.
Doesn't matter if you are replaying your node or not. It's live on Steem.
This was witness me speaking!
Curator me likes the big curation
feereward.User me doesn't like the low rewards.
Drama me loves the free downvotes.
Community me is aware, that commenting will be less rewarding.
Gambling me loves the newsteem price tag
The comment vote disappearing (in most cases), isn't exactly encouraging engagement. I have stopped dishing them out and am feeling a little mean for doing so.
I wouldn't say the engagement has ceased, but it surely was an incentive for other's to comment on my posts, in anticipation of that vote.
If and when the STEEM value increases, then I can do it again.
I'm speaking probably in a minority as a decent sized stake holder. Many other's will have more moans than me. Curation is up by a long way.
Comments have had a rough time. In HF20 the rules were changed that any time you voted early it would go to the reward pool and not the author. This discouraged a lot of voting on comments.
HF21/HF22 does even more so with the curve.
But in the end, I think it may not be a bad thing. If people know they are not likely to get comment votes, then less self-serving comments (expecting an upvote) will be made. Comments will become more organic and conversational. I think this is good.
There are.., or were a lot of bullshit comments, and even though I mentioned I won't be up-voting comments anymore, our common friend is still trying to snipe me on this one.
I like the new hardfork, but not the new reward curve yet. I still think linear is better and abuse should be handled by downvotes. The curve makes small bloggers and commenters earn less and discourage to curate smaller accounts or to boost posts to 20 Steem by bidbots.
I am on the fence about the curve as well, but I think it needs more time to play out.
As for smaller accounts, the dream is they get pulled up and discovered. We need to work on discovery next as that is lacking on Steem unless you can get yourself on trending.
No one seem interested in do that. What I can see is still the same exchange of votes between big boys.
Yep. I mean, I saw @theycallmedan call for people to tell him about good creators. But good is so subjective that none of us may fit into the preferences of a few whales. Linear worked because you found that account you clicked with, you bought your stake, and you started rewarding them even if no one else did. You could build a following that way. Now, if you don't HAVE a following, how would you build a following? No one should vote on a post that won't get to 20 (0r 40) steem, and no user that doesn't already regularly get 20-40 steem is going suddenly start regularly getting 20-40 steem per post. We can make all the promises we want about new steem behavior, but no whale has enough time to find all the undiscovered talent.
Yes, I totally agree with you. @theycallmedan is the exception.. But the reality is quite another.
Exactly, which is why this whole thing is going to do more harm than good and ultimately end up hurting steem.
This is completely unrealistic. From where would they magically get discovered? Who from the whales has the time and willingness to search for undiscovered gems?
At the end of the day the smaller accounts will be discouraged by the even smaller rewards than before.
Curation projects discover new authors all the time, and many whales follow their votes.
I look at new all the time, unfortunately, it is disappointing 99% of the time.
Thank you for the explanations.
So the curve prevents bid-bots. What about buying votes, won't the curve make it more rewarding to use them?
Whether I think the new fork is good or bad, I can say unfortunately only in a few weeks.
I don't believe the curve prevents bid bots, I think it, in fact, encourages them. What does prevent bid bots if the risk of actually receiving downvotes. Prior to HF21, downvotes were rare as they would cost money.
I see what you mean. So it can only work if users use their possibility of Downvote.
I think downvotes are critical to keeping a balance and encouraging good content.
Instant gratification monkey demands everything! Now! All the freaking time!
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After hardfork, curation is extremely profitable than posting. Here is the example of extents to which one can get more returns from a low voting power. I'm still experimenting and will soon identify the best tactics to do that.
I feel great. I’m Not making much Steem anymore but I feel great because I found another way to earn an extra $400 a month with my videos.
I like the downvote pool, and have been flagging spammers while being able to also upvote. I am waiting to see the effect of the reward shares change, and remain unsure of that. It does look on the surface like another whale grab at the expense of minnows and dolphins, but that remains to be seen. And I agree that we need more comment votes as a community engagement boost. I upvote most substantive replies to my posts and comments, and post-fork I upped it to 33% vote power.
I thought not changing the steemit ui so that rewards indicated didn't immediately show the loss was genius.
Stinc being stincy.
It still doesn't appear to be changed.
Steemworld gets it right, though.
The kneecappening appears complete, no worries of steem snowballing to change the world, now.
All hail, The Hair!
IF behaviours change over the long run. That is going to be the real test of this HF. I'm just old enough and cynical enough to not believe they will. BUT, we'll see.
Enjoy some !SHADE 3
To learn more about SHADE visit the SHADE forum or come join the fun at PImp Your Post Thursday in The Ramble discord
The problem in that comment vote should get fixed. Small stake holders now could not even reward commentators which are anticipating a little morsel of the pie.
I'm not convinced comments even should get rewards. It creates a lot of fake comments and unauthentic engagement.
If there were no comment rewards, then comments would be fewer but more organic and authentic. I get wanting to reward your readers and there is value in that, but I am not sure it exceeds the side effects.
Of course if the comment is not "well thought of" or "heartfelt" or "Sincere" or spam we can be able to determine with common sense if it deserves an upvote Mark.
Plus comments are regarded as posts too.
Sure on the blockchain it has no knowledge of post/comment, everything is a comment. But a comment that takes you 3-5 seconds is not the same as a post that takes you 30-90 minutes.
The blockchain can tell the difference in that comments have a parent and posts do not. It just currently does not do so for most purposes (I believe there is still a time lockout on posts but not comments, but I'm not sure).
If we wanted to get rid of rewards on comments we could do so. It would make comments a lot cheaper in terms of RCs as well.
Why do you believe this? To rationalize these changes?
Fake comments are easy to discriminate from true, meaningful comments.
I disagree, many comments that look authentic are purely because they know the author is known for upvoting commenters.
In parts of the German community it is for sure different. The few fake commenters are ignored and sooner or later they give up.
There are of course exceptions to everything.
Really? When a comment says "Great post" is that actual feedback or just spam? I honestly can not tell.
Who cares, they won´t get upvoted anyway, so no reason to waste time on them.
Again, tipping a good comment is the solution.
Commentators, like us on this post, will not get any share of the post payout, but can be freely upvoted by anybody just to “tip” a quality reply.
Am i right?
I agree on this.
Posted using Partiko iOS
Bad....
Redundancy is worth how much stfu !
Posted using Partiko Android
Hey @themarkymark, 'cause you are talking about "free downvotes", what do you think about this: https://steemit.com/@miti.blog/hf22-bid-bot-abuse-this-is-a-more-serious-problem-when-the-abuser-is-a-curie-and-ocd-curator ?
Dear @themarkymark, frankly speaking i do not feel good after this hard fork and i will tell you why:
If this downvotes to my post will continue, i will make a contest giving some troll coins to those users because they are the sould of this social and they need to be rewarded as they are...
The best hardfork made by steem community. If I have extra downvoting power, I visit @haejin post because this person is curating only himself.
Smaller accounts don't have the complete right for down voting content yet. Retaliation by big accounts can mess up small accounts big time.
I think that a good feature would be even the ability to downvote an (tout-court) account, not only single posts. There are many (fake... ?) accounts with 0 posts/comments that indulge on the releasing of non-sense (or worse, simple drove by #hating feeling) downvotes and nothing much more.
Hi themarkymark the SHADE tokens are on the way.
Thanks for sharing SHADE
To view or Trade SHADE visit steem-engine.com
I'm feeling like so far so good. By next week I'll officially feel that we should look for something new to freak out about. About the comments, I was thinking of upvoting comments with my tribe accounts, I know it's not a solution for everyone, but maybe some people could do it.
Is there anyway to check the trend of usage of downvotes vs upvotes on steem blockchain? Is there a way to quantify this? will be interesting to see the trend with each hard fork. At least we'll know where we are heading with each hardfork.
Some users buy votes for good comments from bots because their own vote is too low. With a donation button, they can easily reward these comments with small amounts.
An easy to use donation button, next to the other buttons, is missing in all frontends.
Out of all the organic votes, they are relatively rare.
I'm all for a tipping button, this has been discussed multiple times and likely will eventually be implemented.
DoDo!
Posted using Partiko iOS