Noticed today a witness mentioned in chat that they had changed their APR to 15% and that it meant the majority were now signaling the same which places the APR from HBD into effect to change.
Now before I start talking about my thoughts on this, I'd like to preface this post with saying that this isn't me opening up a discussion to talk about the change with you all - you can of course feel free to discuss it amongst yourselves in the comment section - but I'm kind of really busy lately working on @holozing and HBD APR is something that's been discussed heavily over the years so it's not something I'd like to spend more time on right now.
This may seem like a cop-out, but I'd like it to be known that @ocd-witness hasn't lowered their APR, in fact they were one of the first to increase it all the way to 15% back when it was 6-8. So in my opinion I just believe we should never have gotten to as high as 20% thus I hope this "excuse" is enough and maybe you can take it up with those who actively changed it recently if you'd like to discuss it more.
Now here's some of the reasons why I didn't think it warranted 20% to begin with.
#1 We never really marketed it outside of the space.
Daily you can see ads and previous failed experiments receive millions if not billions of locked liquidity into currencies promising 20%+ and most of the time it's not something innovative or sustainable. While we have managed to sustain it and keep hbd pegged, mostly I assume thanks to @hbdstabilizer ran by @smooth, you have to start wondering where this value is being extracted from.
Had we had a marketing proposal going, a way to verify that people are actually finding out about this and bringing in value to our ecosystem, then sure, 20% would've been okay, and we could've even increased it because we know we have a real thing going on here with a real community - not a "stablecoin" that's been depegged on the upper side for years or a coin awaiting a giant downfall cause the money's just coming out of thin air or late incoming value keeping it up,
This marketing would've served hive well, if they understood hbd, how to get it and how to stake it then they may have learned about Hive as well and had close to 2 if not more years to take advantage of the 20% APR and maybe make some choices down the line if they wanna invest in Hive and the future of the network. Marketing is marketing, doesn't matter who funds it or which dapp is causing it, it'd would've helped Hive become stronger and more distributed.
I'm kind of struggling to think about a potential #2 reason here while I'm continuing on the lack of marketing/awareness front, but a high APR on a stablecoin isn't something that many legitimate currencies offer. Many of you may remember when @queenbee (I'm not sure if that's the correct user, excuse me if not, a lot has happened lately so I may misremember) randomly mentioned the HBD APR and it spurred discussion of it being a scam. This was of course challenged and many voiced their opinions on the matter that Hive and HBD is different but the point is after the downfall of a billion dollar currency it leaves a bad taste in people's mouths whether they want to believe there's a real one that does work and can't break the same way. Meaning the 20% APR had its handicap before it even started, kind of similar with the name of our blockchain being Hive which has shown to be a bit too popular out there.
Okay I may have something.
#2 APR compared to HP
People holding HP lock their stake in for up to 3 months compared to HBD's 3 day withdrawal time, people with HP only receive up to 8.5% (average curation APR)+ 3.2% (current APR on just holding HP (vests)). Accounts voting also face the risk of having lower APR if they're voting on "bad posts/authors" or trailing the wrong curators, but most importantly they're there for the swings of the value of Hive and are active in the network's growth and distribution of new Hive.
Why should HBD be higher than the potential 12% of HP?
You may look at my wallet and think "figures, he has no HBD" but keep in mind that I am actively voting manually and prefer the voting power over updating my savings wallet once a month to see number go up.
Again, I am not against HBD APR but I believe it never should've gone that high, in my mind I thought we'd try 15% and see what it does for the influx of value and even wanted to lower it back eventually to at least match HP so people could pick and choose or diversify but everyone would be seeing that number grow evenly.
Looking at top HBD holder accounts I am not that convinced that these are "new people" who found out about Hive through HBD and decided to park some of their value here. I was a bit disappointed in that and I realize it'd be easy to just create a new account and trade back and forth onto that to make it seem like a new account but I kind of doubt many even bothered to protect their hive identity for that or to attempt to fake that data. I don't think there's anyone to blame for this, many tried to get the word out on Twitter, etc, and it was nice to see that, I just don't think the high APR was warranted without plans and an effective marketing strategy in place to effectively get the word out about it.
Alright, lastly, after reading some comments about the matter, one from @deeanndmathews here: https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@deeanndmathews/re-lbi-token-shy0he, which was also one of the reasons I decided to write this post as I was a bit on the fence about it or unsure if the 15% was going to hold. I'd like people to understand that it's hard to know when the HBD APR was going to change, it had been 11/20 witnesses signaling 20% for a long time (I believe) and a few weeks ago it changed but a witness decided to get it back to 20 swiftly. Concerning the comment, it's not something we as witnesses can known when it is going to occur, these changes happen in real-time and without one of the 11 witnesses mentioning before-hand his plans to change his signal it's impossible to know the timing of it. Regarding another part of the comment and the post (haven't read the post fully), building a project around the APR of HBD or that it may fail/disappoint people invested in said project. If it was set in stone I'm sure you would've seen many other projects follow suit like for instance Splinterlands which is one of the biggest projects on Hive (just an example, not saying they in particular should have or shouldn't have).
Anyway, I'm happy to hear your thoughts on the matter but I'd appreciate it if you'd respect my decision not to debate it again and that my excuse of "never having signaled 20% to begin with" and "I'm just really busy lately else I'd be posting more about random thoughts" gives me room to ignore debates around the matter.
Thanks for reading!
Lol I thought we were past this? Looks like I’ll have to go back and approve the witnesses that left their HBD at 20%.
It’s annoying when the markets are challenging as they’ve been, people are obsessed with making rash decisions. Leave shit alone right now and talk about this when things return to a higher level.
Agree, I have to change my witness votes for the ones supporting 20%…it’s unbelievable why people want to change things that simply works properly because they suspect that 20 is too much. I see this 20% reward as a prize for the ones who remain in the chain not as a risk.
Absolutely, reward those investing in the platform instead of cow-towing to the people who cry and cash out every chance they get.
When we give inflation to those that dump it as quick as they get it, we cut our own throats.
To that end, I don't vote 60rep accounts unless they have 1000+hp, or 70rep accounts unless they have 5000+hp.
These are minimal savings standards, those accounts have been given much more than that by the community and they chose to dump it on us.
'Oh, thanks for the money, suckers.'
I don't care who you are, where you live, nor what you did to eat the week before you found us, nobody is starving because they don't cash out what we gave them, nor are their lives significantly improved by the few dollars their rewards represent once cashed out.
They are simply handing us the dirty end of the stick after we trusted that they were one of us.
When hive is 5+usd we can look at relaxing this standard.
Until then, the people dumping are cancerous to the community, imo.
Damn that’s a pretty good strategy I think! Support those who stick around and actually have a stake.
I try to prefer those who are building their stake but I haven’t been as diligent as I should be. I’ll just change it to 75% votes for those good peeps and the leeches can suffer.
I will have to disagree to some extent and i was quite sad when i saw that 15% to tell you the truth. This conversation has been done so many times already and after a certain point, i think some people actually ignore arguments. I remember some of the arguments being about Hive losing money, the value with a drop, lack of marketing etc. I remember so many posts and comments stating that isn't the case.
I will only agree to the lack of marketing and that to some extent as well. Currently we face another crypto bear especially in Hive that dropped below 20 cents. A stable coin offering a certain amount (20%) was something that gave a lot of people hope and they also had their plans. I consider it as literally the worst time to initiate any drop in that 20% APR. It will once again have only a negative impact on Hive.
Also from my perspective and point of view and as someone who knows a thing or two about marketing and finance i would consider the DFH a huge issue instead of the 20% APR. Literally, people are stealing money daily and taking advantage of the rest of us. We are talking about volumes of Hive and money greater than what the HBD APR offers. There have also been countless talks about that and i haven't seen anything yet. Anyone who either knows a person or two with a lot of power in here or who is a bit lucky can literally start earning huge amounts of money with no control or consequences.
Also, fun fact, i remember a couple months ago a huge talk about HBD and lowering the APR. Over 100 people made a comment and i checked every single one of them and their wallets. Out of those that were pro lowering the APR, not a single one had any HBD in savings. At the same time though the people that were pro 20% APR, 90% of them had both Hive staked and HBD in their savings. Anyone can make their own conclusions regarding that ;)
Finally, 2 days ago, I talked with a good friend of mine that I have been trying to bring over to Hive for some years now but he prefers to have a certain amount staked and earn a 3% APR in dollars. When i told him about our 20% APR he seemed excited. I explained the whole process to buy/sell hive convert to HBD etc etc and was quite skeptical but said he would give it a go. Then he saw that the APR changed to 15% and even though it's still way better than what he earns he said that he would pass. The reason was that there was no stability here. He literally said I have certain plans with my money at certain times, at least here i know that i will earn 3% for certain. How do I know that the next day, someone will decide to decrease the 15% to 1% or even 0. No matter what argument i tried it won't change the outcome.
A lot of people like Hive but we get to see a tendency for most of them to leave and or be absent for a while (like me). Besides one of the main reasons that most decide to drop out and move is the earnings, a lot of others that stay for a while or a here for a while longer get to see the constant exploitation of Hive for the sake of self-benefit, like with the DFH for instance and are simply tired and give up.
Now i don't know if what i said matters even a bit, as from what we've seen from many conversations and many arguments over HBD, DHF, Marketing, and any big-time thing in here something that will make Hive look worse and lose its value will happen at the end of the day. This isn't a rant or something that's intended for you, you know that I really admire your work here and I hope the game is successful. I am simply sharing my views, some of which are opposite to yours but mainly highlight other big issues that actually should have been priority in my eyes instead of this.
It’s unbelievable the lack of arguments they have in order to decide that 20% is too high.
I fully agree with everything you have written here.
20% is an incentive for the people who still remain here, saving both, HIVE and HBD instead of spending them
I agree with you as well! It's quite tiresome to keep on talking about the same and same thing like there aren't any actual issues going on.
Eventually, that money will leave. Right?
Right
Yes.
The growth of HBD in savings has been quite stagnant as far as I can tell, not counting HBD created from the APR, even the top account is only selling the earnings now. I realize not all coins are doing well but the general market is not too bad which begs the question why close to no people, both people on hive and outside aren't taking any profits and bringing
their BTC/ETH/SOL earnings over to HBD. The proof is in the stats, even though they may be up with the mentioned coins and whatever memecoins u may have, they aren't picking HBD even at 20% APR, so what makes you think they might do so later?
I haven't looked at the data of powered up hive lately in comparison, maybe that's probably equally as low or non-existent but I don't think keeping it that high will change anything.
It feels like it failed to garner more value at some point, the conversion are quite flaky and you can't move too much at once and right now it just feels like something people already on Hive would like to have just because it feels nice to earn a predictable amount in fiat compared to HP without caring where that value is coming from.
https://peakd.com/hbd/@dalz.shorts/hbd-supply-2024-going-down-lately
I will reply to both of the comments in this one. I actually think that there are multiple factors that it seems that the HBD feels stagnant which i have a bit of a different opinion. If you check the number of savings accounts that exist we get to see that we reach a peak when Hive is doing great like for example in March we had 3285 accounts while currently the past months they dropped and constant talks about lowering the APR the savings accounts dropped from 2900 in June to 2838 in July and most probably will drop more in August and September. At the same time like it happened again in the past, it is a great opportunity for some to buy Hive cheap and then sell it for HBD when the price increases. That won't change even if the APR goes to 10% or lower. In other words that's a perspective and one of the different reasons why the savings accounts feel stagnant or drop. Note that last july we had a pump and the accounts were around 3000 at the time but comparing it with July 2022 when we again had a pump (which means increased accounts again) there were 2440 accounts. Currently in a gray period for hive we have seen a 16% in savings accounts since 2 years ago which is something. (ofc we don't know if some of these accounts are bots, communities etc etc).
Now regarding the link and the supply that has been going down lately, it's literally as stated in the first sentence of that post, due to the drop in price of Hive. The price dropped, people sold their HBD and bought more Hive, also the stabilizer bought some HBD. It would be great as you perfectly said, to see a comparison of how much hive powered up at the same time.
The reduction according to the stats is 0.7 million excluding the DHF. In general, the let's say interest per year that the current savings account is generating is around 1 million dollars HBD. At the same time yearly we spend, invest, name it as you wish close to 6 million HBD.
The conversation is basically about what's the point of having it at 20% while a few people or non are joining as a result of it and at the same time the supply is going down. I would say instead to argue about that amount, which attracts some people in my mind, provides them with some stability in the Hive ecosystem, or even acts as a complimentary benefit to someone that got into Hive another way, let's focus on the DHF first. Let people having the above, realise how many people are taking advantage of Hive and the HBD through the DHF if we sort these funds out i don't think 20% APR or even more would be an issue.
I can understand how you feel, especially since you have given so much to Hive and everyone in here and even though i haven't given even a 5% of what you have, i am here since the beginning as well so i have seen stuff :p People though don't care where the value is coming from and i am not talking in regards to hive, that applies to every crypto and mostly everything in general as well. In terms of value, a lot of people prefer some form of stability over constant risks and HBD provides that in my opinion. I will agree with the "can't move too much at once" opinion though!
I think i wrote a lot again and it may be tiresome. In any case, i don't see Hive going in a "good" and "healthy" direction, there are other areas that we need to focus, but i hope i am totally wrong. In any case, I am here for the long run! Have a great weekend and thanks for writing about a controversial topic like that, not many would do so!
Or that egregious 20% HBD APR
I have different feelings about this change.
But at the other side should witnesses announce about it? Or maybe I missed post...
That's it...
I very much share your analysis and opinion. I liked the 20% and tried to increase my holdings and brought new money in but indeed after Anchor protocol and the TerraUSD crash it seemed a scam to some at first sight, which is not a good thing- "you only have one chance to make a good first impression" as they say. And truly the real issue was that there was no good plan to leverage that "product" in order to market the platform.
On the other hand, lowering it might not be the most appropriate response: we should rather focus on marketing the many excellent features of the platform. Bring content creators over from Substack for instance, think of some "metering" Medium-style perhaps especially if we do manage to bring high-flying content creators, etc.
Yeah I don't disagree, marketing what we have and a good stablecoin apr would be an amazing mix.
(Anyone else feel free to reply since Acid's too busy as stated)
I think one thing people haven't yet discussed (that I've seen) Is taking a look at the global economy.
For most people, it's a total wreck. Housing in UK for example has gone from 3-4x median income to around 10x. Salary hasn't increased at all while food and energy and everything else has more than doubled.
Markets are getting more volatile as we've just seem a huge demonstration of it dropping trillions out in the time it takes to drink a cup of tea. Banks failing faster than any other time in history. The list goes on. Everybody feels at a loss.
They can't put their cash under their mattress anymore because that's essentially bleeding value. They're not saving money that way, they're losing it. They can't trust the banks and even if they could, interest rates are generally falling now down to pointless lows.
People need a haven where they can trust they will get returns that, at the very least, counteract the increase in living costs that the world is punching us all in the face with. 20% HBD to me, was that place.
15%, kind of is, but it just barely counteracts the rise of costs lately. Places like Venezuela which is about 90% of Hive nowadays would surely appreciate more HBD returns, too, although I can't speak for them.
I guess I'm ok with 15%. I took all my savings out to enjoy Hive appreciation right when it tanked and never returned lol, so it no longer affects me either way cuz I'm not putting it back until (if) we get back at least to 30 cents
I honestly wouldn't have noticed the change if I didn't see your post. Since this is a big change and affects a lot of accounts, I would have wanted them to send a message or comment informing those who have some staked of the change [maybe something similar to hivebuzz].
Personally, I think the 20 percent is too good to be true. That's why I tried to put half of my rewards up to 1k. At 15 percent, I think it is still good, since I haven't seen any stablecoins offer anything close to 10 percent. But at these Hive prices, and the 15 being close to the Hive APR of 12, the HBD staking loses its edge. With just a small difference on the Hive APR, and with Hive having the potential of price appreciation, there is less and less reason to stake HBD. I wouldn't be surprised if accounts unstake their HBD and convert to Hive, while also increasing our current inflation/debt ratio.
HBD APR not being above HIVEs potential max APR is basically been my stance for quite a while now ever since I saw a few other witnesses mention it, Just makes sense to have the Primary currency have the highest returns.
Personally anything between 6-10% is already very appealing compared to FIAT savings accounts which frankly is all we should compare to as the APR in DeFi and the Crypto space is often artificially inflated or just down right a lie.
So It's nice to see the APR come down, it'll probably lead to more HBD to HIVE conversions as some may choose to drop out of HBD to some degree and the low HIVE to $$ price also fuels such conversions.
HBD conversions back and forth have shown the system generally is self regulating, We have tons of HIVE converted when HBD depegs massively outside of the internal market and when prices drop it converts back to HIVE, which can be a bad thing to an extent, increased inflation in an already difficult market and potentially even more sell pressure.
But that's should how things are. We should trust in the system to regulate itself more than giving out APRs that many associate as being a 'scam' or too good to be true.
I'm a hive witness supporting the blockchain.
If only all that you just explained had BEEN explained EARLIER ... if only we were not having to play catch up ... I was a professional journalist, but barely a triple dolphin here, so if you had to learn from ME that this needed to be addressed, that means Hive has a MASSIVE GAP higher up on communicating with the community, a community that has let it be known that largely it is not for this change right now. We have been discussing this since the town hall on January 1, so this is known.
But I appreciate that you have come forth SWIFTLY, @acidyo, on behalf of OCD. Your position on lower than 20 percent has been consistent. The problem is the perception of complete disrespect because of a lack of announcement, but you have helped with that too in that we know now that such changes cannot be predicted well in advance. I will add your post here to my Things Ms. Dee Likes newsletter coming out later today so that the things you have explained here can be known by the German and Spanish-speaking communities also.
Honestly, I don't think the larger community are for higher APR, but it's a sensitive matter a little similar to downvotes as it feels like you're "taking away" something from people which means that many are/stay quiet about it.
I also think it would've been better handled had the witnesses mentioned their decision to make a change but then again many/most didn't say anything when they upped it this high either.
I wasn't saying that your comment in particular was the only one that forced me to post, I had plans to do it but as mentioned the previous time it was about to be lowered a witness stepped in and changed it, which may still happen, who knows, but figured I'd post this anyway to share my opinion and thoughts.
I appreciate that you did come forth, @acidyo, and I respect you more for having done so. You have showed more respect for the community than 19 other top witnesses, and this is noted with gratitude.
Why not 30%? or 50%? or 100%?
At what point it becomes a ponzi scheme?
and at what point it stops being a ponzi scheme?
You are creating value out of thin air. It's not about rewarding hive users, it's about keeping hive alive a bit longer.
20% was a common ground. It covers high convert commissions and inflation.
HBD Savings already declining 3 month in a row, even with 20%. It is self regulatory. And now you decided to kick it even more?
I thought the more HIVE converted to HBD - the less HIVE in circulation which leads to higher price. HIVE to HBD conversion is a unique way to decrease HIVE circulation.
But looks like many witnesses don't care about HIVE price too. (Like they don't care about bring new users to the platform)
Sorry, it is just my opinion
https://hivehub.dev/stats?metric=hbd_in_savings&timeframe=monthly
I am not a top witness. But I did suggest what you are saying.
The idea of playing with HBD interest rate to manipulate the price of HIVE was one of my suggestions to the top witnesses but there was no discussion or interest in it frankly.
Ideally we would increase the HBD APR whenever the price of HIVE goes down and lower it whenever the price goes up. But lack of discussion involving top witnesses doesn't help. I guess they are not interested in this idea.
The point I'm making is, our witnesses are not going to do that. We are going to have a fixed interest rate no matter what. So we should have something that is a bit more sustainable.
I even suggested going higher than 20% couple of days ago when price dropped. My APR setting was 22% and in one point 25%.
I don't see a problem in having a higher APR rate for a short period of time to encourage more HIVE buying. But the problem is the lack of participation on this idea from the top witnesses.
For all I care I could set my APR to 30% for a month if it is going to help the price of HIVE. Participation in governance has been lacking and we can't expect growth without more participation in governance. Witnesses used to do more back in the day to not lose their votes. Now, you can be AFK for years and not lose your position.
Actually, I thought it through a little more.
Lets assume that we have now 30% apr and HIVE price is $0.18
There will be a huge incentive to out into HBD saving. Lets assume we do it with $1000 USD -> convert to HIVE (ideal) 5500 HIVE -> Convert to HBD (ideal) -> $1000 in HBD savings.
Now, in one year the HIVE price is $0.36. In HBD saving we will have $1300. If reduce HBD APR now to %15, many will withdraw.
$1300 HBD -> 3600 HIVE.
In this case we will have HIVE circulation reduction of 5500-3600 = 1900 HIVE.
So increasing HBD APR when HIVE price is low - leads to decrease HIVE in circulation.
But what witnesses are doing now?? They are doing in opposite. Now, people who put it under %20 APR and much higher HIVE price will unstake their HBD and convert to HIVE. Which will lead to increase HIVE in circulation.
WHY? Can someone explain me why witnesses are voting for lower APR now which will lead to HIGHER HIVE in circulation??
My first comment. Why not 100% then? Wouldn't that encourage way more people to save HBD?
You are creating value out of thin air. The entire Hive can collapse without offering an actual value.
About the higher HIVE in circulation:
https://peakd.com/hive-133987/@dalz/hive-inflation-for-july-2024-or-running-hot-for-a-second-months-in-a-row
again, why now? When the HIVE price is at its bottom?
Decrease APR when HIVE rise a lot, $1/2/5/10?
In this case decreasing APR will lead to decrease the HIVE in circulation.
Now it looks like witnesses are making it even worse by forcing converting 8M HBD in savings to HIVE at the price much lower they bought HBD. Which will make even more HIVE in circulation and increase inflation.
Why now?
I'm not against lower APR, but now??
It makes sense. The lower the HIVE price the higher HBD Apr should be.
So why your witness reduced APR to 15% now? Is it because HIVE price increased a lot? ($0.18 now)
The crypto space has been positive recently and I think we are about to see a massive bull run in entire crypto space.
I might increase my APR setting if the price starts to go down again.
Yeah the latter is a bit sad, I'd be interested in seeing some polls/questionnaires if people would actually buy more hive with their increased apr hbd earnings though.
I am sad that you guys don't talk, and I praise your temptation to have better communication! At least two witnesses coordinated this lowering maybe you are off the group that's it =p
I understand the strategy and agree somewhat why the witnesses reduced the apr in our hive value moment , a strategy to maybe force people to switch hbd to hive … like you said it is closer to the organic apr + curation. However, I still dont like the way it is done . "I am a top witness so I switch my apr as I want". Most of the other blockchains you have community voting… why not asking the voters? We sell ourselves as uncentralized blockchain but we have some walls about that. I like the way that you propose a discussion in here, and because of that it would be great to see Ocd-witness on the top 20 if this discussion would be open as always.
I'm mainly into HP, so it's not a big deal for me. 15% seems like a pretty good return anyway. If the 'interest' was to encourage people to buy $HIVE to convert then it's obviously not done much for the price which can't break away from the 'legacy coin'. Those who were earning here could convert to benefit.
Maybe this will wake people up to the fact that witness votes matter. Some of the witnesses do not communicate much, so it's hard to tell what their intentions are. That can be a factor in who you vote for.
I didn't even realize it was 15% this whole time.
This must be that gradual lowering of the APR nearly everyone agreed to, last time.
Looks like that move opened up 9 witness votes.. honestly it should be 11 but there's a couple people I will excuse their bad judgement as they compensate in other ways
I'll just kick back and watch. Aren't decentralized systems fun? Those signaling 20% contribute to the rate being 15%. Mind blown...
honestly 15% is still good tho can't really complain uwu
Thanks for the heads up I just changed a bunch of witness votes. If it ain't 20% they ain't got my vote.
Still better than what the mainstream banks are offering.
Updated my witness votes to support only those pointing to 15% or less APR. Unless the blockchain can justify high rates of saving with quality improvements then it's just senseless inflation. IMO it should be closer to 1-2% HBD savers aren't contributing anything to Hive.
20% is such a huge interest rate anyways, I'm glad it's coming down.
Notification is all that is required that people know what to expect, the 20 APR was high from the outset many voiced their opinion at the time. Thanks for update.
DHF a huge issue instead of the 20% APR.
I think it was increased to 20% when there was a project paying 20% but it's failed now and 15% is still a good-to-go percentage.
HBD interest rate is high, I think 15% would be good even though HBD is a stable coin.
This is sad news: 20% was not much, considering all the risks! I will only vote for witnesses who support 20%
let the war begin
20% was not a lot, if you count how much money you will loose on covert from fiat to HBD and back. There is NO liquidity. So how many new people will be interested with it if they will have to keep a year or 2 in HBD savings just to break even?
Adjust your vote for witnesses accordingly.
how do u buy hive with fiat? losing 20-40% in fees doesn't sound good
USD -> BTC -> HIVE -> HBD. Each step at least 1-2%, sometimes even more. So we are talking now about around 10% just to one side. The same is backward. Now, with 15% APR it took over a year to break even.
And there is no any warranty that tomorrow witnesses decide to go with 12 or 9%. The risks are too high to interest new users to the platform.
If witnesses don't care about bring new users to Hive and just to get their rewards - they should be voted out.
@acidyo add there USD inflation is about 10% also. And you'll get that there is no sense to use HBD saving.
You can't throw USD inflation in the mix when no banks/web2 offer you any good interest rates to match it to begin with.
I dunno what exchange you're using, but most have 0.075-0.2% fee per trade and hive to hbd is free not counting slippage/price movement.
you're talking about exchange fee only, I'm talking about the price spread too.
Converting USD -> HBD you'll see a lot more than 0.2% as a result
Yes I said it can be up to .2% fee per trade but I think it's farfetched to say you need 1-2 years of 20% apr/higher apy to break even
When I see a 15% return, I still feel that's pretty impressive. My investment accounts haven't achieved that level of return over the years, and I don’t have a savings account that would earn anywhere near that amount.