When I went to college, I knew why I was going. I had been working in construction for a while at that point as a summer job and found that I was quite good at it. Despite being just a teenager I was always being given higher and higher levels of responsibility that was normally reserved for people with considerably more experience than I had. I also knew that as far as getting employed by larger firms was concerned that there was normally a requirement of having a college degree for consideration in employment. I feel as though this requirement is actually quite stupid because when I was in the Construction Management program there were very often times that I knew more about the things we were studying than the person with a PhD in it that was standing at the front of the classroom. Techniques and of course, technology, had changed a lot since most of the professors began their doctorate work and they were now passing on antiquated information as if it was somehow useful in the modern world. Since I needed the grades to pass I didn't argue with them or worse, tell them that they were flat-our wrong, because there is no way that someone that took all that time to get a PhD in something that I would argue doesn't need or warrant such a certification is going to acquiesce to someone who is 20 years old and is for all intents and purposes, completely at their will.
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There were some classes that were useful from an engineering and booking or tax standpoint, but most of the classes that I took were either incorrectly reflecting the modern construction workplace, or they were in no way related to it but were for some reason a requirement of all students regardless of what their major was. I feel like the generic one-size-fits-all 4-year program requirement is a load of BS and it is designed simply to fleece people of money. In all the classes I took in college I would say that only about 4 of them actually even applied to what the construction management world is actually like and very few of even those 4 were terribly helpful in making me more adept at becoming a part of that world. For the most part I feel as though the system just makes us jump through hoops and now that I have been involved in the industry that my degree is meant to qualify me for, I wouldn't say that going to university was in any way helpful to me other than opening doors to certain companies and banks that would require me to have said qualification in order to be considered in the first place.
Now that I am an employer I am actually LESS likely to hire someone if they have a college degree than if they have a bunch of experience because the people with the degrees have their heads filled up with incorrect information and they are normally quite stubborn to come to the realization that this is the case. Over the years I have found university educated non-engineer types to be more trouble than they are worth. That isn't necessarily their fault of course. It is just that they have been programmed over 4 years to think a certain way and were assured by professors that the way they were being taught is the correct way or in some cases, the only way forward.
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I'm not trying to suggest that all degree programs are a waste of time. I only know for sure that mine was but I also knew a lot of people that were in college just because they were told that this is what they were supposed to do by guidance counselors and the world at large and yet most of them would probably agree with what I am saying here in that what they studied didn't prepare them for their careers. In fact, almost all of the people I stay in touch with from college don't work in the field they got a degree in. I only know a handful of people that think their degree programs prepared them for what they do as a job now and one of them admits that he could have learned all of that stuff by going to a few classes at a community college or in today's time, simply learn it online for free.
The reason why this has come back to my mind is because a friend of mine's daughter is applying to colleges right now and the girl has no idea what she is going to college for. I mean she has no endgame in mind as far as what it is that she would like to do for a job and this is exactly the same situation that I encountered with most of the people that I met while studying myself. Other than the art students and the people that were pre-med, they were all just in college to be in college and a lot of them changed their majors multiple times and eventually just graduated with a degree in "whatever."
One thing I definitely do remember about many or most of the people I attended university with was the fact that they were taking out massive amounts of student loans and many of them are still paying those off to this day. I think this is the true reason why people are pressured into going to college: To make money for the universities and the banks, not to actually educate people.
I'm sure there are a few people out there that genuinely feel as though their college experience was helpful and to those people I say "in what capacity?" Was what you learned relevant to the actual working world or was it just that the job you ended up with was unavailable to you prior to having a degree. I recently saw a line from Stallone's character in a show called "Tulsa King" and the speech goes something like "If you show an employer that you have a degree it shows that you have what it takes to stick with something for 3-4 years and not give up." It is easy to understand this logic but it wouldn't surprise me if that line was thrown in there at the behest of the university-oriented union of some sort. For me personally as an employer, I haven't noticed much in the way of anything useful that comes with the people that I have hired with university educations and I have also noticed that at least in my industry, the college educated ones will often use a smaller organization such as my own as a springboard to potential corporate positions in much larger firms. Basically they are less inclined to remain loyal.
I talked to my friend whose daughter is about to go to college next year and basically he agreed with me because his experience was the same but it appears as though the high school kids are being pressured by guidance counselors as well as certain university sales representatives that come along and basically tell them that if they don't go to college that they are going to be subjected to a life of poverty. I do not agree with this point of view and think that much of it is a brainwashing scheme to keep the very large business that is university education raking in tons of money.
I have no children but if I did I would say to them that if they have a specific career in mind then perhaps, just perhaps university would be useful to them. However, I know plenty of people that thought they knew what career they wanted to go into only to have this idea change dramatically while they were in the process of spending 50-100 thousand dollars figuring that out. I think it wouldn't be a terrible idea for them to perhaps leverage the people that they know to get a job inside that industry at a low level first and at least have a look at what it is really like... or perhaps just take a few classes at a community college to "get their feet wet" and see if the interest is genuine, or if they have been tricked by a TV show or film into thinking that these careers are much more lucrative and exciting then they are in reality.
I see very little benefit to most university educations other than benefitting the university. I regret attending and if I could go back in time I would have just kept working in that field, doing the best I could, and then perhaps just claim to have a university education in that field after a certain amount of time. Chances are they are not going to check because most jobs are awarded because of nepotism and whether or not you can nail the interview anyway.
That's how I feel about it anyway. I think a lot of people are senselessly putting themselves into debt over something that isn't going to actually benefit them.
I am 100% in favor of ongoing adult education, but schooling should be approached cautiously. If you want a career in law, engineering, or medicine, sure. If you want to teach a specific subject, yeah. If you want to party for several years and can get scholarships or family money to cover the expense, maybe. But general education in a world with podcasts, libraries, online archives, and more is almost free in comparison.
Knowledge is far more important than certifications IMO. Unfortunately the professional world doesn't look at it this way. I tell people to become knowledgeable about something and then just say that you do have whatever certification the company is looking for. They weren't going to hire you anyway so if they discover that you don't actually have this cert (most are not going to check but will merely quiz you in the interview) then you are back to where you started in not getting the job. It isn't criminal to tell some tall tales on a resume.
College was everything i expected of High School.
And i took a lot of college. Drafting, Architecture, Engineering, CS and all the other course you have to take.
I got a B in the easiest course ever, aced all the tests, but he changed one test to a written essay, that was supposed to be due at a future time… but was now.
All the CS was a waste. And, most big programming firms are tying to hire kids out of HS, to train them up proper.
Most engineering is a waste of time. It is outdated, and they don't teach them the real world skills of being able to eye-ball a beam. (how to check if your calcs are correct, or if you slipped a decimal)
After the first year of med school, everything after it is wrong.
So, we really need to revise college back into something that feeds into the industry.
It is a waste of time for almost all people. Especially with ThemTube
HOWEVER! It is because we don't teach. The trivium is grammer, logic and rhetoric. Instead of what we teach today which is rhetoric, then reading, then math. (or, what to think, not how to think)
Life does not give you multiple-choice questions with always one correct answer. Usually there is more than one way to skin a cat. And always, there are many ways to make a mess of it.
So, what college used to be is a substitute for a IQ test (which they made illegal to hire based on)
Now, they let anyone who can pay in.
A college degree is useless. And, like you, i have seen many people NOT hire graduates.
It wasn't always this way. Back when unis had to compete on price and quality they strived to have the best and most useful programs. Then the government got involved and made it accessible to everyone even though it already was, just not the elite schools. Now people are taking out hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt that the lenders are very excited about giving them where in the past a poorer person would have to go to a lessor known university and probably still live with their parents while they did so. Nowadays the kids leave the roost as fast as they can, rack up a ton of debt, and end up boomeranging back into their parents' basement anyway.
I think if I had to study further these days it would be a skill like electrical or plumbing rather than a degree. Thankfully I never went to University as it was either my brother or myself and not both of us due to not having the funds. I at least had the personality and life skill to get by unlike my brother. The not going to study further is not a regret and I think I have done ok for myself.
absolutely... me too. I regret not going this route but we were basically told we HAD TO go to a 4-year university or we were going to get no job offers. We believed them because we were kids. Hopefully the youngins are wisening up these days but based on what I see online I seriously doubt it.
We had it slightly worse as we had compulsory military service so if you did a degree on top of this you were looking at 6-7 years. I think if we had no call up I possibly would have studied further. Can you imagine doing 7 years and still have 10 years of camps afterwards which are between 30-60 days every year. You would be in your mid thirties before you had a normal life.
I agree with everything that you said in there. I never worked in the field that my degree was in and they don't tell you when you are studying how it is that someone actually get into that field. They don't prepare you for HOW you are going to get into the field. The tired path that doesn't work anymore of degree/internship/job is a dead path for the most part, yet they still keep pushing that on people. In my college experience most of the professors had never actually worked in the field that they claimed to be experts in. How's that ever going to work?
I have read stories about people getting internships and not only are the not paid, but the graduate is expected to pay them for the "experience." What a sham.
I was offered a bunch of unpaid internships and what a racket that is. Like, how am I supposed to live during this time? Have a second job? Wouldn't the average person still be required to pay off student loans during this internship? How are they meant to do that?
i think that if your internship is unpaid then this is a sure sign that your education is not worth anything. No offense intended to you personally, of course.
you’re not wrong I would say for the most part. First off like you know the obvious medical stuff and biology I think it’s definitely you know obviously beneficial to society and those attending considering their salaries. BUT I totally hear you and as far as technology goes or at least the non-medical person goes your 100% right and I am a prime example of that. A college dropout who’s somehow managed to climb their way up into the crypto industry and I’ve been sponsored by Binance, was a key consultant for the acquisition of BitGet’s buyout of BitKeep Wallet…
Now I’m PR for a massive DEX futures platform and part of the PancakeSwap team!
What’s unfortunate is the requirement of college for “real world” normal jobs. I’ve managed a friends $50k portfolio before & thankfully made sure he signed some documents bc otherwise I would’ve been arrested for even mentioning a trade ! 🤔
Good post frien
oh and I appreciate the long and concise response. These are a rarity these days :)
I know a few people that have seriously made it in tech or crypto and none of them went to school for it. Two of them tried their hand at college but got frustrated with all the unrelated crap they had to take in order to fulfill the requirements of the degree. The one guy who went full tech took a few certification classes at a community college and said that the professors there weren't PhD's but rather just people who were really good at the task at hand in their professional lives and did this as a side gig. He now runs his own company, makes his own rules, and makes bank. he was probably too smart for university in the first place.
You're better off today to go to a 2 year technical arts or trade college, you'll get both accreditation and employable skills. You may be able to get government grants as well cutting the costs further. The 2 year colleges in Washington State have very high standards and supply a lot of the workforce for the tech industry in the Seattle area.
I absolutely agree with this and it is a shame that people don't look at trade schools more than they do. I think that as far as most hands on programs are concerned that the 2-year colleges are a much better place to get actual knowledge. They are also damn near free in comparison to a hoity toity university with their fake old looking buildings.
also, I hope that young people are being told about this. When I was in high school this option wasn't even mentioned to us and they kind of talked trash about it... Looking back I think they were paid to do exactly this because the schools that would come and visit us were really expensive for-profit private schools, never the trade schools.
correct. education institutions lost direction and are more "fabrics of diplomas" that fully responsive to markets new demands and students' best interests
I am yet to find anyone who isn't an engineer or doctor whose college education genuinely benefitted them. I know many people who after finishing undergrad were unhappy with the options available to them and just went back to get a masters instead of joining the workforce. Many of those couldn't find jobs they were happy with even after spending that much time in college. 2 of these same people went on to get PhD's and are now educators... which kind of perpetuates the problem.
perfect. One friend of mine that got a masters degree ended up being an assistant manager for a single Starbucks store. Of course her degrees were in something stupid though.
That is much more common than people imagine. Even more so in these days of automation, robotization and artificial intelligence. They managed to deceive and scam us at school, high school and university for a while. In fact, society as a whole at that time. But now everything is known and the scam has been exposed. That's why today's youth are almost all members and activists of the Quiet Quitting & The Great Resignation movement.
Because yeah, times change!