Just a quick note for the chain regarding HBD interest %
HBD APR hasn't attracted the attention we wanted, the APR is so high it sounds too good to be true, and actually starts to become a negative for public perception imo.
I've lowered my vote to 15%, and I intend to lower again to 10-12% over the coming weeks.
Nothings really changed regarding our need to expand the HBD supply so some level of interest is useful there still, but ultimately we want to attract Hive/HP investors so that should be the more appealing option APR-wise.
Apologies for the huge break between posts. I'm still here <3
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Agreed. 20% on a stable coin is too good to be true and previous examples have either imploded or devalued. I think somewhere in the Fed Funds rate + 3% to 5% would be a stable and attractive rate for investors looking for a "risk-free" investment. Currently, that's 8% to 10% APR.
I've been thinking about this. I think that it would be better to incentivize the users to invest in Hive Power, rather than HBD. Having a good APR on HBD is cool, but it should not be higher than Hive Power.
It's probably ok for HBD to be more profitable than HIVE sometimes because with time HIVE inflation will keep decreasing, I don't remember off he top of my head but I think the target is 2% in under 20 years
But anyways, right now a reduction is welcome for all the arguments listed
The discussions around it are interested anyways, we evolve as a community through all this
The part where it sounds too good to be true is a good and new point raised.
On my witness node I lowered from 18% (which I was voting before) to 16% exactly because I also still believe in increasing the HBD supply and I also believe that HBD is great for attracting new users, but you're completely right that it hasn't been working so great and probably because people do think that it is too good to be true
I don't think these changes will impact any prices, they may just upset a few people that were expecting yields to stay high and profit odf of it, which I hope they do, but in the end Hive should be about HIVE
Hopefully curation improves in the future with the yield adjusted
I liked my 20% APR on my little savings :] thanks !
Me too. I reckon it roughly met inflation. If it falls below inflation I will have to counter that depradation another way.
yeah I think the community/ platform should try to longer use that good, really stable stablecoin and its 20 APR as lever..
to get more attention from Bitcoin swing traders
and normal savers who try to counter inflation
as you say, the 20% pretty much countered it
and HBD was VERY special about that
(show me anything else in our current world, with that consistent stability.. damn)
especially cuz it works great and we do not really have any problems this high APR coming soon (as it looks)
but my personal situation is also very crisp - very close to homelessness again
so I've used my HBD to compound a little and have some spare savings for bad events
but also planned to convert them into Hive again since quite some time (already wanted at Hive's last dump)
cuz the possibility of homelessness grows and comes closer and Hive still is easier and faster to change to BTC and to real life than HBD (sadly - which is also probably the biggest problem of HBD, too isolated, needs more pairs/ bridges/ ways to get)
soooooo I do not care so much about the APR change - wanted to convert to my HBD to Hive anyways due to my situation even long before recognizing anything would change on the HBD APR ^^
greets :)
I hope you are able to secure your domestic circumstances well and with alacrity. It is something I have been remaining considerate of, as I'd like to reduce my expenses and provide a maker's lab that the public could access and learn how to use the different tools that I do not have space for presently. Having a small manufacturing facility with enough room for desktop CNC, 3D printing of several types, laser cutting and engraving, working with fabric, vinyl, cutting and welding steel and other metals, aquaponics, manufacturing chemicals on demand, DIY solar and wind power, and manufacturing supercapacitors, would enable me to also use that equipment to improve my personal lot, and perhaps become able to better automate and streamline such production with AI.
I believe that with the ludicrous oppressions like masking, staying 2m apart, and bans on gatherings being mandated again, likely within the month, that capability will be critical to my felicity, particularly in the event of an attack on cash and attempt to force Americans to adopt CBDCs. I have only been able to eliminate money for about half my goods and services, and I need to make that total, because I'm not going to use CBDCs. Either I will make or trade off the books for things, or I will do without. Building a community of makers with modern means of production much more potentiates providing the blessings of civilization locally and facilitating felicity in my community than falling back to hunting, fishing, and foraging for my supper, cooking and heating over wood, and sleeping in a hollow log. It's going to rain ~60 inches in the next few months, and at my age, I like to sleep in dry bedding.
Yeah similar thoughts here, could've been different if luna hadn't crashed or if the one other stable didn't belong to scammy thieves. It should still be decent on par with hp apr.
Also post more!
I am seconding this sentiment:
Good to see some movement on this. It did end up attracting negative attention on the outside, and there was a lot of explaining to do. Plenty of energy when into that, which still did not seem to yield the desired outcome.
hmmmmm, yes. I get where u are coming from.. but for me and my selfish POV, I like having HBD at such a nice APY, so I have something to invest in, that is stable, and can keep up with inflation. :)
could be also 5% and would be ok. There is no reason to make it 20%.
That's one point I do agree with, the whole 'too good to be true' thing. Talking to outsiders, that is one thing that immediately stinks of 'scam' in their eyes.
10-15 can be marketed to the normies as countering real world inflation, given that the UK's inflation is still at a wacky 11% (truflation.com). That's why 20% is nice for me personally cause I have almost ALL my money in UK savings and it is not nearly enough to counter the collapse of the country's value. 20% in a global economic crisis might sound too good to be true, but it SHOULD be bringing in a lot of people seeking refuge from global inflation.
It isn't because nobody is actually talking about it, as far as I can tell
20% is an amazing deal imo and should've drawn way more attention then it did. I'm just not sure how long we should continue to pay out this promotional cost, when its clearly still not working after a year. I believe we probably COULD continue to sustain this, I'm just not convinced we should . Given the reaction so far I'm considering just holding at 15% and reassessing in a month or two.
Yeah pretty reasonable approach but either way wouldn't accomplish anything noteworthy, 20% hasn't brought anyone in purely because there's been no push to do that. There's a kind of paltry, wannabe series of marketing attempts by individuals but nobody seems to actually know what they're trying to market and to whom:
Free speech? Decentralization? high APR? DPOS? democracy? Get Paid 2 Blog? Reddit? Web 3.0? Entrepreneurialism? Play-to-earn? All of the above? It's so scattered.
In that environment, you could set it at 150% APR and at best a small handful of crypto bros from other chains will notice a whiff in the wind either as a scam or opportunity.
I dunno. Spitballing.
15-20% is a nice cherry on top. Below 10% and it doesn't even overcome current inflation rates so not even worth mentioning but can still function as a normal background feature.
Pretty much where I am at with my thinking on it also.
I suspected a month ago that witness governance could reduce the HBD APR. That is required in order to keep the value of HBD. If the 20% APR could have enticed investors, it would have been great, but nothing spectacular, and if it is decreased to 15% or 10%, I believe it will be fine.
My piece about how I believe HBD interest will decrease soon
https://ecency.com/hive-167922/@asgharali/hbd-apr-expected-to-transition-from-20-to-16
We are in a bear market ... all we're going to do bringing that interest down is removing a competitive advantage just in time for the next bull.
I disagree, but no one cares what I think. Inflation is eating capital up yet today, and I found 20% to nominally counter that rapine. It won't counter it at 10% and I will be forced to consider other mechanisms. I doubt I'll be alone, so keep a close eye on adoption of HBD, because I expect it to significantly decline as interest rates do.
I appreciate the heads up.
Yeah you're on my page with that. Watching UK's inflation rate eat away at my savings I built up over 14 year is the height of frustration for me. I've literally been reading up how I can best move most of it into HBD for safekeeping for a year or so. Likely I won't bother anymore XD
Why would dropping the interest rate bring in more people? It will have the opposite effect.
Im not claiming lower number = more people. I'm saying I consider our high Apr for promotional reasons to be a failure at this point, an experiment we tried for a year with disappointing results and I'm trying to reduce the amount we burn on that failed promotion.
Yeah I get that, here is why I disagree.
If you say HBD is a stablecoin, then it must remained pegged to the USD or whatever currency it is "stable to" and must remain so for years to gain trust. The same goes for the interest rate, if you advertise 20% APY which is per year then cut the interest rate to 15% after year 1, no one is going to trust that it will remain at 15%. What is stopping it from changing again to 10% or 5% or 0%? In the eyes of an investor, nothing. The interest rate changes on the whim of the network. Not very trustworthy hence why big investors don't trust stablecoins or 20% returns because they know it's not real and changing this would prove that correct.
Failed promotion? I have not heard a single content creator since the days of steemit even mention this website. Ya'll poured money into the like of Luke Radkowski and he left yall a long time ago. The Hive whales picked the wrong people to back and now no one uses HIVE. No one talks about HIVE, no one even knows it exists. If the higher ups at HIVE want to promote this website start finding decent content creators again and recruiting them here. I am not talking about me, I am talking about actual decent large content creators. This place needs a BUZZ to be an actual HIVE.
Nobody should have ever been advertising this as locked 20% forever. Anyway, it seems like the network is moving towards a bond system that could help here, eg https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@taskmaster4450/this-is-how-hive-bonds-will-work
Okay okay, now this looks promising...
This is something I can sell to an audience. 12% on the first year investment is quite good.
I still think we need to address the "onboarding" issue with HIVE, meaning we all need to come together as a platform and drag people here kicking and screaming. Somehow we have to make HIVE relevant again.
It failed because it was done as the bear fell. Nothing would have worked because Bitcoin leads the market. Nothing will work until Bitcoin leads the market up again. April 2022 and August 2023 are EQUALLY bad times to start and assess an experiment like that.. all we're going to do is put bad stories out in the market before the bull. "HBD used to beat inflation, but now ..."
But now HBD still beats inflation by a good margin. In fact, it's still 20% and nothing has changed at all.
And very little will until roundabout the spring of 2024. Unless someone has data I'm not seeing ANYWHERE, the crypto markets as a whole follow Bitcoin, and that doesn't halve until around May next year. In like manner, nothing could be done on the wrong end of the cycle in 2022, either -- what crypto endured that without heavy losses, and how would we have stopped a stampede that big running from 80-99 percent losses with a stablecoin nobody really knew yet?
But consider what story we want told when the bull run starts again. Do we want people to be talking about Hive being exceptional in this regard -- 20 percent is actually no longer unique, but the access to it Hive provides still is -- or take away another distinctive?
Thats not some good news for the HBD investors and people who wants to earn easy passive income. But I think the decision is more good for the ecosystem because investors attention will be changed towards HP. Also this decision will help increase the number of users to be active in the hive platform. Thanks for sharing.
What about set a 20% HBD Savings for amounts lowers than 10k (HBD) or increase the HP APR for accounts with less than 10k HP. More stack lower APR.
That way you make sure small users are the beneficiaries equilibrating the map of power and getting there chances to grow and bet for the network.
I like the intention of the idea but sadly this will only result in people splitting up their stash for max profits
well, is something that will happend anyway, at least with this larger amounths will receive less interest. I don't see somebody creating 100 accounts to get the 20% when with one still receive a 12% APR. Until now this is the only idea to incentivize small accounts stack HP and HBD.
So what? I really don’t grok this attention argument.
The world needs a lot more HBD.
But if attention is really the goal, increase the HBD rate. 30 or 40% might wake people up. You don’t think the cryptoverse would notice a 30% or 40% APR?
We went from 0% to 20% and nobody cared, I'm signalling a 5% drop and everything's ruined even though nothing changed yet. Why not 1000% How much free money do we give away as promo before it's obviously wasteful, given no real response or growth is happening?
We’ve already given the patient on the operating table X units of blood. Since he’s not out of the woods yet, let’s cut back on the number of transfusions.
People are not being attracted because Hive is in a crypto bear market ... @demotruk covered Hive's correlation to Bitcoin just last week ... raising the HBD to 20 percent in April 2022 and lowering it in August 2023 is not going to move Hive significantly because Hive is not going to move until Bitcoin does, and that won't happen until the halving next year. Investors ARE beginning to assess Hive --
-- and one of the things touted as a good point is the interest AS IT IS.
Meanwhile, there is at least one other well-backed project out there bumping 13-20 interest also, being talked about on Hive. Right now, we have a competitive advantage because of the democratization of global access to that 20 percent over Wirex, but Wirex has a marketing team and way bigger backers.
This does not follow from my work. Price of Bitcoin is just one factor among many that contribute to the price of Hive.
OK ... I will take correction because I probably have rolled your data in with some other I have been looking at inadvertently. My apologies to you and all. I will, however, ask this question: given that Bitcoin is a strong factor in how markets move, do you have data that suggests is it LIKELY that adjusting the HBD interest and/or jiggering the reward curve downward will have a positive influence over the price of Hive that will counterbalance the influence of Bitcoin? By the way, if ANYONE does, I'd love to be corrected again.
I don't have that data, but it might be possible to determine it statistically. I'm not sure though, because we've only altered interest rates a handful of times any analysis might not achieve statistical significance, but I haven't examined that deeply.
The Bitcoin aspect is not relevant at all, HBD interest rate doesn't have to act as a counterbalance to anything.
And it won't ... it can't ... that was my point ... so I'm not seeing why changing it is going to improve anything. Like I said, I am probably conflating your data with some others ... but there's not much any altcoin seems to be able to do at this point in the cycle to get on a sustained rise or attract a bunch of investors. It's just not time yet. As much as I would love Hive to be an exception to the rule, it seems that the GENERAL tendency of altcoins to follow Bitcoin in its cycle dominates. Again, I would love to be wrong: if you or ANYONE has any data to show me that there is ANY combination of elements on Hive's price that can and has resisted the general market trend, I would love to see it. But if this is not a thing, I need to know why people suddenly want to fix what isn't broken with the HBD interest, when that's a part of the good story we are taking into next year and the bull.
Did you even watch the video you posted that guy clearly has no idea what he's talking about lol. He read coinmarketcap's intro vacantly and then insisted twice that Justin Sun is backing hive.. TLDR: Hive is shit but $3 maybe?
He also said that there a lot of things he does not know because Hive and Steem forked, so, there are some details missing. And if you listened to the end, he asked Hivers to come clear some things up for him because he knows he does not know everything. Here's what he DOES KNOW:
You want him to have all the details of the split and clear him up? Great! Go do that. His entire investment group follows his moves, so PLEASE go make the case in his comments. Understand that from the outside looking in -- the outside we need people FROM --this is where the knowledge base is. He will reach more people than you or me -- so if he is TELLING US, from the outside looking in, that we have ONE BRIGHT SPOT, and if we can get a marketing team and a bigger user base, we can get better, just understand: he will reach more people out there than anyone in here fussing about what he said.
An excellent post. Where it is said to attract investors. Which is very interestingly based. Excellent discussion on hbd editing and voting. Can we give twice as many votes to people if we lower the voting rate? Welcome to the New Year celebration. I hope that the creator will always give you the grace to live a beautiful and healthy life. I hope you make the opportunity to spend a nice healthy day with your family. May my blessings always be there. Happy New Year Have a great time.
greetings You are the Great One whose love prevails among us.
best regards @mdakash62
I'm outraged, that's not far enough. 10% or I will be forming a lynch mob.