Let's talk about Elon for a second....
Unless you have been living under a rock, you'll know that everyone's favorite billionaire decided to buy Twitter a few months ago. Since then, you either love what he's done with the place, or hate it. One of the more curious decisions he made was to take away everyone's 'verified blue check mark' and make people pay for it.
Why is this such a big deal?
Let's look at the history of the 'Verified' status on Twitter. This was limited to the who's who of influencers, politicians, sports figures, businesses etc. You know, the real 'gems' of society. Even though there's claims that one could 'buy' a Verified blue check mark before Elon, the story was you had to earn it. No other way around it.
Anyways, Elon took that away and now those gems of society have to pay to play.
Verified. Status. Reputation.
That's what the glorious blue check mark represented, and for better or worse, it was a status symbol in social media.
So what about Hive?
Do we have something similar here?
I'd argue we have something much better. And yeah, it's got it's faults but let's look into the 'reputation score' beside our names.
(Disclaimer, I'm pretty sure I'm not exactly at level 80 yet according to Hiveblocks, but we're using this for an example lol)
Beside each of our names, is a score based on our reputation on the chain. Now it's a funky algorithm the the super smart developers on the blockchain came up with but essentially it works like this...And I'm being very vanilla with it's description...
The more value you add to the chain, the more upvotes you gets, the more your score increases.
Now again, it's way more complicated than that, and it gets harder and harder the higher you get, but you can see the top 'reputation scores' via @hivebuzz here:
And if you look at the top 50 or so accounts with the highest reputation, I'm sure there will be debates about how much value each has given to the chain. But you start seeing some familiar names up there that have basically dedicated their lives to this blockchain. These aren't members of the community that showed up last week and 'bought' their way up....
(Yes yes I know about the bid bots back in the day....)
But the point is, the majority of the top reputation scores on Hive have earned that rep from adding value.
Adding value. We here that term thrown around a lot these days. And if you have ever tuned into the Crypto Maniacs podcast by @taskmaster4450 and myself, you'll know we discuss this a lot. You see, in my opinion the blue check mark here on Hive is seen in the value we give to the chain.
Is it always represented by the reputation scores? Not always, because adding value comes in many different shapes and sizes. Splinterlands' rep score is 69, but I don't think anyone would say they haven't added value to the chain.
The reputation score to me is the pulse of how you're perceived on chain. It's not gospel by any means, but to me it's something I always want to improve.
Yeah closer look tells me, I'm not yet at 80 even though most of the front ends say I am lol But look at that number to the side of it....
71 moons. Joined in December 2017.
That's a whole lot of TIME dedicated to adding value to Hive. In my own unique way I guess, and that goes for everyone on their own journey here. The time, effort and value you add....Comes out (sometimes) in your reputation score.
Personally, I'd love to see more emphasis placed on it. There is so much we can do with it. But of course, it needs to be worked on. However the blue print is there, for Hive to start building it's very own 'verified blue check mark'....
And I think what we build on Hive will mean so much more than anything Elon is charging for these days :)
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Absolutely not. Hard Disagree.
The Rep system is a whale game, if you decide to dislike me today and just put me into auto downvote - you alone can 0 me. That is not how reputation works.
Haejinis literally the best example, you have the Hive fund and the most rejected person of the Chain on Spot 1 and 2.
No, that stuff needs an overhaul and Twitter is way smarter with their Rep System, they just don't show you the public score yet, but Musk committed to doing that somewhere down the year.
edit:
There you go, I dug it up
That’s a point. I like the reputation idea here on Hive but I see the issue it has. Where did you find the info about Twitter reputation and Musk?
wow,... I'll have to search a bit.
This was one of the confirmations about the Twitter "Status" of an Account, the best I could find right now. You'd have to listen to the dedicated Twitter Spaces on Musks Timeline to dig deeper.
He replied confirming this. There are a bunch more, but hell Twitter is a big black hole sometimes and time is finite.
Thanks! 👍🏻
This is the Open Source part of the Algo,
https://github.com/twitter/the-algorithm
Here is one of the Tweets by NFT God about the Account Reputation,
You can grind yourself up and down his explanations, he's pretty detailed and the rest can be found in responses or comments.
Very interesting but I don’t really like the blacklisting of certain topics. Wasn’t that that the issue with the old Twitter Management? Intransparent blacklisting and blocking of Tweets etc.?
Yes, those are Databases that get referenced and the contents are not available yet. Very likely they will not be for every jurisdiction in the end. Different countries, different rules.
Like I mentioned, it's not perfect. But the DNA of what 'could be' is there. I'm no whale, I'm number 45 on there. Task isn't a whale either, he's number 3.
I really hate to see this failed system in place for a multitude of reasons. It does not protect to platform from bad actors, it does not protect anyone from spam and it's easy to game.
If we would just not show and use it anymore, all Apps would be better because this wrongfully called "Reputation" can't damage anyone anymore. Ask @jelly13 for example how he got to a great score.
The Blue check is very effective at creating a minimum permanent buy-in for accounts to leave value back independent of what the account is used for. It would be very smart to have a system like that on this Blockchain. The endless witchhunt led by those crazy Discord Cave Trolls who police the chain day and night could be dramatically contained. Hive could do it in a very elegant fashion, with permanent Hive Power lock-up - a true timeless commitment to permanent Hive Power. Any account that does that, could be left alone for a long time. You could bring people to the chain, teach them nothing, let them get verified, and learn from their own mistakes without getting trashed by the Hive Police over less than a buck rewards. I call that a great solution to a lot of headaches.
So if a spammer posts nonsense with a couple accounts then uses an alt to upvote it, effectively paying themselves for nothing, but has a blue checkmark, people will back off and just leave them alone? As if it's some kind of shield? Then people have to listen to them be all like, "I paid for this checkmark! Don't you know who I am!" Because it's supposed to mean something?
I don't get it.
Ok yes, let's go over some options, just freestyle out of my head - no magic. Keep in mind, we talk about permanently locked / soulbond Hive Power.
Here's the playbook:
We have a new user, he comes around and starts to dig into the ecosystem. 0 Clue, very little research, no discord contact (as it should be). There's a steep learning curve ahead of him, it might take a year to get on level. He puts out some good posts, some bad, some good comments, and some very bad.
Scenario 1
You Permanently Locked 120HP to get a "fully verified" on a new account
(Twitter Blue is ~96$ a year, you pay upfront the first year)
Usually what people do is, will post low-quality, unoriginal stuff and misplace content by the community selection. We can now help them renavigate them into the right corner without downvoting them because they have already invested 120HP. That lets us crowdsource the education work and immediately releases us from the pressure to police the rewards for a long period of time. Tbh, it takes a while for a new account to earn that Hive with shitty posts.
Scenario 2.
You commit to locking up 10Hive a month every month, you can stop - but the badge will disappear and you get a lower level verified at the beginning.
That means you have very little commitment at the start, but you can earn your way into the stake month to month without converting additional fiat. People will be more inclined to help you reach those monthly targets and if you post trash or overreach in comments, there's a least a certain amount of shield before you get pulled over to a full struggle session including a public humiliation.
Scenario 3.
It's an attacker, fully AI or semi-automated.
Those will be a lot in the near future, dramatically increasing with cheaper AI APIs and professional tools for human-like behaviors. Right now, we have to act swiftly and mercilessly to get a hold of those. Those verified batches work as a deterrent to some degree, but if not, you still have to commit to an investment in preparation for your attack - which wasn't the case before. You now have a higher break-even, which kills the option of a super thin very wide circle of voting and if you get found out, you can't just rugg all the accounts and leave because you have soulbound HP on them. Nevertheless, an attack is very possible, but the attacker will have a lot more to lose if found out while using verified accounts.
This was full freestyle, have merci with my half-backed stings of thought.
Dude. I found a spammer today. Using two accounts to post nonsense then upvoting it with his main account. You could see how the two accounts would send the money directly to his main account that he'd use to upvote his spam comments. It took my five minutes to take care of it, alone.
If he paid for a checkmark, he would stop, because people would approach him and ask him nicely to stop? No dude.
All I did was negate the ill-gotten gains. Didn't mess with his main account that appears to posting somewhat normally. Even left a nice comment pointing out I know what he's up to and how I plan to negate the spam and his self votes on said spam (seriously, a picture of Bieber with a Getty Images watermark), and even said I'd stop if he could give me a reason why I should.
I think it's great community members all have the ability to take action, or not, by default. Decentralized. Sure, some go about it the "wrong" way. People are flawed so a flawed system seems rather fitting. Can choose from all sorts of options including keeping your cool or being a total prick. Again, decentralized. Everyone is in charge of themselves, and that's it.
You apply sensationalism to your points so that makes it difficult to communicate with you on these matters.
Create a problem, offer a solution, but charge a fee. The oldest trick in the books. People fall for it all the time and don't even know what hit them. Just ask anyone using Twitter and they'll tell you they had no clue that happened to them.
You're adding useless layers of complexity.
You're also suggesting tax. Members can earn. They will use some of those earnings to purchase a pointless blue checkmark. Everyone will have one. Once everyone has one, it means nothing, aside from everyone earning less, and all that money goes to who again? The frontend? Consumers will not be interested in making that same purchase for every frontend on Hive.
And some crazy AI from outer space attack is going to require a lot of RC, and can be negated using the same tech and tools already in place.
Why should every human have to pay now just because a few people did some dumb shit, got downvoted, and that lowered their rep score? Why does every human have to pay for it? It's not them that screwed up...
That is a very interesting take because you are right if your priority is to protect the system and its integrity. I personally have seen into the abyss and gone down some of those interactions. Now here's what I found and why I turned my head 180° and started to recalibrate.
Only people who knew that they did something bad or at least risky went through the full redemption arc of getting flagged, and writing an apology.
Guess who's immediately leaving and trash-talking Hive across the internet forever. People who felt handled unfairly, and those are the people I'd like to protect even if they do wrong sometimes.
I read your comment and if everyone would be you, none would be salty. You've been very nice to that person, beyond what he deserved.
Generally, you don't have to police an account that behaves like a humanoid and has made a permanent financial contribution for a very long time on this chain. You can look and advise and stay back, no urgent need to interfere.
And that is very important, as Nathan Senn has pointed out multiple times, right now as an entrepreneur, you can't finance any onboarding effort because the conversion after a week or two is close to 0%. The only exception is the incubator by OCD, putting people through massive preparation and rewarding them with 50-100$ introduction posts, some still leave shortly after that xE
I'm not interested in a system that allows someone to purchase the right to screw people over.
None should get screwed, unless they really want to of course.
Maybe my point of view is a bit distorted, I don't see any priority higher than bringing and keeping new stakeholders around. Anything that has a negative effect on this target has to be questioned for an update or by default abolished. If every new user is seen as untrustworthy due to "Reputation" and low "Reputation" is offboarding users, what it does, then it's most sensible to outright delete it and work on a different solution asap, in that order.
Hive's rep system is decent. Takes a lot of work to make it rise and only a few screw ups to make it drop. No different than earning trust in life, really. When folks were buying their reputation with paid votes, that made it useless. Massive self votes screw it up as well. One can still look to see how things came to be. Buying a check mark, anyone can do that, even people with bad reputations. People who can't afford their status symbol, can also be good people.
Yeah for sure. I mean it's not without it's faults but I really do value my rep. And I know it's just a number, but to me it's the time invested that the number represents.
Time invested and consistency I suppose. And of course it's wrong to judge someone based on that number. Can easily see a new account a mile away though. New accounts can see at least some level of experience without knowing you. And like I said, one can still question it, and look into the account on their own, provided they know what to look for, and get a better feel for it. Can't do that with a paid for status symbol.
Yup, very good points!
Totally valid @jongolson - I went in on the 8 buck purchase but just like a few other investments to purely put my #hive fandom at the forefront is all good. I'm just waiting for enough people to be on HIVE that anywhere else would just be a mere secondary thought.
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Oh I grabbed it too the first month it was out there, but like you, I literally use Twitter to talk about Hive LOLOL
#hivemaxxis 🤣
I see a lot of people posting on Twitter for hive. Love it.
!PIZZA
Keep spreading the good word.
!PIZZA
Can’t stop won’t stop lol
No. I hate this idea.
What you are asking for is that on a decentralized platform we should pay/ lock up our Hive for so many days so we can be seen as SOMEBODY?
Doesn’t that go against the whole Blockchain ethos?
We all know how some people got their rep number. They are easy to spot. So for a few that cheated we are going by the old standard of all should be punished and made to pay?
How is that helping the people that are new when you tell them we are totally decentralized?
It’s not. Reps past 60 are hard to earn. If you REALLy want to know why someone has a -3 rep or a 80 rep it is not hard to find out even for a beginner.
The wonderful thing about Hive is that it cost you nothing but a lot of freaking time, as in years to get a high rep.
Yes there are mistakes made but even the largest players have had their reps messed with and are still here. But do not start lumping everyone into the many should have to PAY for the few when all the answers are easily found.
I will never pay for a blue checkmark nor will I pay for a red one and I am so pro Hive it is not even funny but your idea is ….. I will be nice and say I dislike it.
Money for those that have it is easy to say 5.00 is nothing compared to what you get. To others 5.00 is food for a week, or water, or heat.
Rant over…
Fair enough, I applaud you.
Thank you!!
You are very welcome!
Yeah I'm no fan of the pay to play model for a rep score personally. I'm right there with you!
Thank You!
I don't know what is a verified account for on Twitter. If need to verify an account there, he should detect and remove bots at first. However, reputaion on HIVE is different, I think. It might give confidence about the account and the user of it.
That's one good thing Hive has tackled, we self-police the abuse pretty well.
While it is not perfect, I must confess that I am using the Reputation as a mark of what posts to read into more depth and consider voting.
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My thoughts exactly. I think everyone can admit there are faults with it. But it's still a great measuring stick. And can only be improved upon!
I think Hive reputation system is decent and a good start but it could use a revamp!
Nowadays, there are many ways to "buy" guaranteed upvotes so it's losing some of its meaning, in my opinion
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Yeah there is always ways to improve upon what we have. And by no means is this perfect. It's still a decent way I find to measure my progress.
I've been grinding so hard. It really is kind of impossible to grow that score the higher you get. At least not at the level most people are getting upvoted at. You might get a big boost here or there, but it is tough. I agree though, even though it is flawed, this is still one of the best indicators we have.
It is such a grind. I have been in the 70's for as long as I can remember now....But 75 to now, oh wow...Years lol
Yeah, no kidding. I feel like I have been pressing towards 78 forever!
I haven't looked at the reputation score from this point of view, but makes sense.
The great thing about it is that we as the Hive community get to decide what is "added" value and what's not. As long nobody misuses the power though.
Yup, exactly. And it's not without it's faults. But it generally works as is. It can always be improved upon.
I see this reputation score as a personal goal, there are really those with more than 70 reputation that add too much to the community either as author or curator, I hope that one day I reach this number above
PS: As the title suggests I thought we would have to have that check mark here at hive haha
Oh it'll happen for sure. Just takes time! And yup, it's a personal thing for me too. I just wanna see it rise every week :)
Upon reading this, I check my profile to know my reputation, the number beside my name and I have 68, not bad and hopefully it will increase.
My rankings in the hivebuzz list is going up every month and I love it. I am working to go up even a little every month.
I think the best game plan is...Just keep adding value to the chain :)
The rep going up os a by-product of that!
Definitely I agree with you, user's consistency and contribution in terms of contents and engagement brings good upvote and that will always increase user's reputation.
Am still at 61 and am still pushing
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It's a consistency thing, it seems to go up and up the more we show up over the years. Takes time for sure!
Thanks for this reminder or advise.
I'm part of the camp that likes what Elon is doing. The verified blue check mark seems to be a good business model. But since it can be bought now by many users its integrity has been reduced a lot. I like Hive's reputation score especially on the social side, earning it isn't easy when you start climbing here. It requires commitment and hard work.
Oh I'm a fan of Elon's for sure. I mean, if it was considered Twitter 'premium' that's fine, but it's attached to the legacy of a verified check mark.
Right. The legacy is in the minds of many and it is how they're going to see it. It would have been better to roll out Twitter premium without the blue check mark to tag along with it
I think instead of getting KYC we should have subscription based checkmarks, this way premium funds can be used to maintain the Hive backends and also they can be source of income on the platform.People who love specific platforms like say CTP, Ecency, Peakd, would get respective checkmarks and show support for those backends. I think this is a good idea to introduce income source for entire platform.
Let's name this "Hive Red" checkmark. Offer should be 9$ per month or 100$/year for check mark and there will be perks from the backend platforms etc like token drips, paywall content access etc.
We are getting KYC?
I think the issue for each front end is, a bunch of them hate advertising lol
Bravo! Bravo!
Here’s a post worthy of a Nobel prize award
Am I the only one that felt somehow while reading this? I guess that’s the Hive effect😂
Glad to hear you enjoyed it, thanks for stopping by!
Well, this is something that can [must] be improved moving forward. Or a better one can be added, built from the ground up taking into consideration the most important aspects that bringing value to the Hive ecosystem. !LUV this post. It brings up an important aspect of Hive, hopefully, the conversation helps in finding the best solution.
I always think of that old ‘rep’ platform Klout. Took stats from across the entire social media spectrum and blogs to spot out a score. Something like that for Hive would be epic.
Not familiar with Klout but if it includes the relevant stuff needed for a "true" rep score, then I'm all for it. The dev talent we have here will surely find a way to bring it to fruition if it can improve what we currently have now.
Wow, that's good info that i haven't since i get into Hive Chain world. This kind of post gives people a perspective of Hive and the things that most majotiry ignore. Thanks.
Glad you found it useful!
I think it's fine as a decent system but it's a bit complicated. As I am generally on LEO, I don't really pay attention to much to that number but it does show just how committed people are. It takes a long time to increase that number and it requires quite a bit of consistency before things can really take off.
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Yeah it does take time now. Before you could buy your way up, but now it's a grind!
I'm trying to improve mine too :) I'm curious, is it only upvote numbers, or does the weight, amount, age of account giving it, etc a part of the algorithm?
I'd love to see different factors included in the rep. Such as powerdowns, and perhaps a small boost for being active on Hive birthdays (including our own). Maybe an option to participate in certain activities as well? Recruitment campaigns that only reward people for bringing in serious and active new members has a nice ring :) ...
Definitely 🙌 What we have here goes way beyond a platform or blockchain :) ...
This post has been manually curated by the VYB curation project
Yeah that's my thinking, if it could take from different aspects of the user experience...Not just upvotes / downvotes. I don't think the age has anything to do with it.
It would be nice if the rep could be used to give people an incentive to engage more :) ...
!PIZZA
For sure.
It's an escalating graph of difficulty earning those higher reps.
This is how I see it:
25 for a base account.
Less than 25 - you messed up/troublemaker
30+ you reach this after one or two decent posts.
40+ you've been here a short while, still new.
50+ you've been here a few months or been doing really good in under 2 months. You are a casual to medium Hive user (you might even be on the road to being permanent)
60+ You are a mature and integrated Hive user. Well on your way in terms of growth and posting frequently.
70+ lots and lots of time, you need a solid 1-2 years or a massive amount of great content to get you here. This person is really committed.
80+ Seeing this on only users that are extremely dedicated and have a large fanbase of readers. They barely need a curation. Every time they post, hundreds of people read and dozens of people reply to what they do. Anything about this is top tier!
90 and above are like, genius level lol
Good outline for sure man!
Thanks! 😁
I have never taken my time to think about this until you have just said it now.
I totally agree
The reputation that Hive uses is far better than the verification mark on Twitter
Something to be proud of I think!
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