be2deb63cb24dd179769912d93f7413602ff9e62
https://hivehub.dev/tx/be2deb63cb24dd179769912d93f7413602ff9e62
INTRO
This is intended to be a temporary proposal that would last until the Splinterlands team creates a new proposal that implements what they shared in the Land 1.5 Whitepaper. @yabapmatt has indicated the changes indicated in this proposal would take very little work by the Splinterlands team. However it is up to the stake holders to decide if they would like this ~4 month change.
WHAT
This proposal is a simple change that states:
SPS designated for distribution to land holders should be distributed only to those who have surveyed their land.
HOW
IF surveying is live AND IF this proposal passes
THEN each surveyed land plot will receive a proportion of the the SPS pool (designated for land) equal to the proportion of surveyed land.
WHEN
This proposal would last from when surveying starts until a new more advanced proposal takes over.
- This is estimated to be approx. 4months
- Surveying is estimated to begin the end of this month (march)
- A new SPS distribution system is estimated to begin June/July
WHY
- This proposal would align the SPS reward structure with the most up to date land products.
- It should speed up the process
A. Claiming deeds / Getting the land-location you have been waiting for
B. Surveying
C. Purchasing surveying starter packs that the community already voted for
D. Arriving at DEC par value (through quicker purchase of starter packs)
WHY NOT
- Users who do not want to claim a deed (a location in Praetoria) in the next ~4 months or do not believe this proposal would accelerate the claiming process to get them the location they want may not be interested in this proposal.
- Those hoping to get DEC at lower rates and need more time may be against acceleration of getting DEC to par value before they can get what they need. (If they assume this will accelerate and increase the consumption of DEC for starter packs)
There may be more WHY and WHY NOT in the comments.
Another reason why.
The community voted to start the SPS drop to land holders in large part because land has been delayed for sooooo long. Now that the process of getting land going is well under way, it doesn't make sense to be rewarding people who are not actively wanting to participate in the latest updates.
This SPS was originally intended to be ONLY for people actively working their land. This proposal is in line with the original intended purpose of this SPS.
Couldn't agree more with this, give the SPS to people participating also encourages claiming land, otherwise, we will be in Land for posterity much more time. Enough is enough.
Agree 100%
Agreed.
"The process of getting land going is well under way"
So still not here?
Give me land, usable land. Then I will consider "participating in updates"
Why force to play it does not make sense even for your brains Freedom I follow you for years ;)
I agree it great to reward those involved.
But How can you vote yes for this forced land tax to get SPS when you have no idea how much itll cost.
Bad Idea till pricing for surveying is defined.
Or did I miss something that stated the cost?
As a disclosure I have a region that I have not yet claimed and i have specific area i'm hoping to get ... and so there is a chance i would be negatively impacted by this proposal. And yet I'm still happy to vote for it for the greater good.
why you are so cool, amazing personality.
why would you vote to give away your SPS reward to Big wallet players?
Did I miss something?
At first glance this makes a lot of sense. If you want to be rewarded in land 1.5, you need to participate.
It's a yes from me. I don't see a drawback. It encourages people to survey their lands right away instead of waiting and also get the dec/dec-b they need. Anything that helps us burn through some DEC faster I am for.
I'm all for people getting off their backsides and surveying their land. Go, touch grass. Don't sit on parcels of undeveloped land. It'll be an eyesore among my towering structures. :)
i don't think there is a sensible or logical argument for no. i can only think of egoistic motives for saying no!
I can... We have no idea how much the survey tax will cost. Did I miss something that has the pricing?
The proposal could be a reason for people to get incentivised to claim their deeds, thus speeding up the process. Though I'd argue that the 60 days drop-off for the starter packages is also an incentive.
With this said, the lack of non-cards asset locking would be an argument against this proposal, since I would have to move my land to my hot-wallet without any mechanism to lock my surveyed land.
Why: Why not? :D
lol
In all honesty, I'm torn, acceleration is appealing but so is letting things come to terms at their own pace. It's a 50/50 split for me on which I prefer. They both have benefits and both have drawbacks. I guess we'll see what the consensus is. 🤔
see benefits / reasons to vote both ways.
The white paper was shock to some with the amount of DEC which will be required to survey your land , i feel this proposal has merits but for myself i do not have 2m DEC lying about to purchase the build and time crystal starter packs for each land. Which i will need to, to make sure i have for my best plots. A gradual surveying of my land would have happened but i lose out on SPS rewards if i do it that way now if this passes.
My objection to the proposal has been overcome by @jarvie's point about DEC-B only being available through April 9th.
Almost everyone that is paying attention will make a decision about the starter packages by the April 9th deadline to purchase the DEC-B since it will give them a 20% discount.
Therefore, I have switched my votes to YES for this proposal and glad to support it!!!
This makes a lot of sense! Helps align "productive" actions in the ecosystem with rewards - something Splinterlands should be all about.
This makes perfect sense. YES
Thank you for participating in SPS DAO Governance @jarvie!
You can place or monitor SPS Stake Weighted votes for and against this proposal at the link below:
Link to this Pre-Proposal
Updated At: 2023-03-26 18:49 UTC
I am trying to understand the pros and cons of this. The text above didn’t make it clear for me.
For clarification:
I am a land owner. I already receive SPS for my land holdings. I have converted my land tokens to land deeds already and will survey all my deeds. How does it impact me if the proposal passes or doesn’t pass?
People who have not surveyed their deeds will cease getting payouts, therefore the pool will only be distributed amongst those who have. The likely outcome with you surveying 1000 plots would be a larger share of the SPS pool until everyone has surveyed.
Well. I guess it's fine then. Maybe the purpose of this proposal is discouraging "not surveying"? Maybe land token flipping? I am cool with this. Likely will pass
I think the actual purpose is to encourage people to continue to participate, considering the original proposal was enacted due to the delays associated with land. More functionality is being added, so people should no longer be rewarded for being passive-- they need to take the next step to continue to earn rewards.
More likely more surveyed land flipping in the short term, as people who don't want to hold common and rare plots sell them off.
It should help you get more of the SPS dropped daily. Since there are bound to be some people who don't claim and survey and they would be ineligible.
The proposal will pass
I agree with you 100% even for those who are paying attention it is still not that obvious for land
Terrible, selfish idea
Truly appalled at the greed.
Speaking of greed... those who do NOT vote for this proposal may qualify as greedy in our opinions.
The SPS airdrop for land was meant to be an intermediary step (as a side note that proposal in my opinion should have never happened but people voted on it because "hey free money" and i have come to terms with it) but the concept of getting money for no action simply holding something most people bought a long time ago seems greedy.
It seems that SPS should go to those who actually participate in Land not simply hold it. SPS goes to those who play. Those who risk by putting into the liquidity pools or those who risk staking for 4weeks (which btw is not that big of a risk)
Well for many months people got money just for holding land because real land usage didn't exist and there was no way to participate. My only regret was not doing this proposal like 1-2 months ago when deeds came out. But when surveying comes out people can and should participate in interacting with land.
There is a case for saying that: Wanting more SPS and NOT participating is the real GREED!
I agree Jarvie, its clear that the people who have voted no to this proposal are not prepared to survey and get their land working immediately :)
The wonderful thing about blockchain is that everything is transparent and motive and be inferred. :)
i'm prepared to survey the land just cant afford all the starter stuff yet and need some time to do this. It seems to me to be good for the game for all of us to buy all the starter stuff. Maybe i got my head up my ass and am thinking totally wrong about this. i hate being rushed when making big financial decisions and feel really rushed since the white paper and this proposal came out. i might just not fully understand it all. fk knows
I think the intent of Jarvie's proposal is to accelerate the surveying progress by rewarding those who are willing to jump right in. While I've only got a tract (making it easier to do this preparation) - I'm still short, so I imagine that large region holders would not be keen to see their SPS rewards tumble proportionally to their ownership of land. I understand that.
A region was a seriously large commitment at the original release of land, and the white paper probably solidifies the fact that it is an enormous commitment to get it to produce at the optimal rate.
My view is that the risk for holding unsurveyed land is less than surveying it (like holding an unopened pack) - and people who take the risk (by surveying) should be rewarded more handsomely than those who do not, by way of getting a larger cut of that SPS rewards allocated to land.
agree! now give me a month to get enough funds to do this. stop the SPS flow, in fact take back all the SPS land has given me to date if that's the argument. X amount of SPS per day since ? plus vouchers = ? A lot less then what i'm thinking this will cost.
so my math says anyway :)
100% True, but for those who got land on Day 1, the SPS and Voucher returns have probably exceeded the cost of the land. :)
I am still about only 90% ready for my tract, at this point which is what is in the white paper, let alone the phases to come.
ALL THE REASONS
Since you've indicated you're on the fence and want to understand a bit more why to vote... i shall appeal to you.
DEC-B was announced jan 17
Starter packs were announced feb 9
White paper that re-emphasizes the need for those things has been out a bit now.
If this doesn't pass I'm not doing another proposal it'll be up to the sps council dudes like @davemccoy and their proposals aren't passing too often either. I don't know if they even have much of an appetite for this proposal... they have to be actually interested in the subject. We don't know the reason for @genepoolchlrn8r downvote... we only know that you and dave would vote in favor upon a change.
You literally have until april 9th to get dec-b
Will your getting ready time be after april 9th and you're willing to pay 20% more? (even more than that when you consider the pretty good discount for using vouchers to get dec-b)
And here's a final point on timing: Do we really think that they'll have have surveying out this tuesday? They have alluded to potentially taking another week to make sure everything is good to go. I have actually heard many people indicate they wouldn't be bummed if they take another week to make sure it's all good to go. Also this proposal will take another week and then even though it's easy it will have to wait for a tuesday to get implimented ... so it may not get done in one day and it will miss a tuesday and get implimented the following week.
You may not be fully ready but you'll be partly ready and you'll be able to survey a good chunk.
Also final reason is that this isn't gonna pass the proposal this just takes it to the stage of official voting. Maybe it still fails... maybe you still downvote it next round.
Maybe we see surveying comes out on this tuesday and people react a bit differently ... maybe they indicate to us how long surveying starter packs are gonna be available and maybe it's a short period anyway and that solves part of our problem and maybe we don't need this proposal quite as much. We give splinterlands team a bit of time to help solve part of the problem which is that there is NO reason to survey until june/july except for curiosity. And thus we're delaying major participating in land until june/july and delaying the impacts starter packs can have on the economy until then.
what i always find amazing. that some people often use the word ``me'' in their arguments. but people don't want to realize that it's a selfish action. it doesn't matter if it's logical, right or wrong, because it's all about me.... :(
it is about me. cant talk for you nor should i try to. if i say we should all give SPS back etc that is talking for everyone which is B.S as it makes assumptions
if using me is considered selfish to you (which is about you)
I (me) am ok with that.
hope this makes sense, not sure i fully understood you correctly
i think you actually know that it would be right to distribute the sps only to measured land. but because YOU don't have the complete money for it right now. the wrong system should continue to run anyway. so if you have made the complete money for it liquid in 1 month, we are allowed to introduce the actually right system. imagine someone else needs 2 more years to have the money together. should we then continue to run the wrong system for 2 years? i thought with a lot of sps you also have a lot of responsibility to make the right decision. but apparently for some, a lot of sps is only good for pushing through their own interests. of course you have the right to do that! but honestly, i don't know what to make of it as a human being.
they should finish the land development first and we will happily survey it is as simple as that
Coming in the next few weeks to the survey stage. :)
But i'm interested in hearing from @davemccoy ... he doesn't strike me as being this greedy maybe he just doesn't understand the "money for nothing" greed I see when people vote against the proposal.
I originally voted for it thinking it was pushing people to "claim" their land. That I don't mind doing, I do think people should be encouraged to cooperate and claim their land.
But when I was told that I misread it, and it wasn't for "claiming" but instead for "surveying" the land, then I changed my vote.
I like the concept of encouraging people to claim their plots. That only takes time and effort, but not any money. Thus if people are paying attention then the minimum they can do is spend some time and money to claim their plots.
But I don't like the concept of forcing people to survey their plots (which forces them to spend money before they may be ready to). Thus if someone is saving up to get some of the packages, and it might take them 30 to 60 days, then I don't think they should be forced to choose between saving up their money for the special packages and LOSING their SPS or not getting the packages and getting their SPS.
I think we have been very patient (as customers of the game), so I don't see why we would all the sudden want to see players be forced to make an early decision on the surveying.
So the TLDR version is:
I'm FOR stopping distribution to those that can't spend their time and energy to claim their land, but I'm AGAINST stopping distribution to those that aren't ready to spend money to survey their plots til the 60 days they have for the special packages are over.
I'm not being greedy and voting to keep my SPS distribution to just sit there and collect SPS, as I'm very happy to vote for removal of all SPS rewards until the land is live if that was a proposal too. (in addition of course to the fact that I would vote for this if it was simply claiming the land plots). So in my case its not greed at all, I just feel bad for those people that don't have the money liquid to survey their land because they want to get the special packages.
NOTE: I have what I need to survey my land so this won't affect me either way, but I do know of quite a few people that are scrambling right now to get the money they need to buy either 1, 2, or 3 of the packages.
NOTE 2: I also think if we force people to decide before they can adequately come up with the funds, then they will just not purchase the early packages and we will LOSE their spending of DEC in the process. Its not a huge deal, but it will be a missed opportunity to have more participation.
The one for claiming land should have been done like 3 months ago... everyone was too greedy to get it done back. We're like 3 months behind the times.
You know better than to call it "forcing" them i'm disappointed with the manipulative rhetoric. Like the game is forcing me to play 24 games a day... I have played none this week because i chose to do other things do people feel forced to play? Maybe some do... but i don't think you would use that rhetorical wording for getting that SPS distribution so why use it with this?
People can decide to be involved in any stage of the land system they want... the majority of us are saying to get SPS we believe they should be involved in the most up to date version of land. They're TWO versions behind... not even one. They're 2 versions behind and I can't think of anything but greed that makes them just want to keep getting their free lunch without having to do anything at all. Well in land 1.5 it's gonna be a huge wakeup call at least this is a baby step towards that wake up call and stop the entitlement mindset.
If this fails and you want to stop distribution to ALL for land that's great. Land holders got way way too much for doing nothing besides spending $8-10 in a pre-sale they have been way too rewarded already. So yeah I'd vote for you on that... but that would not get funded very easily and this proposal will very likely get funded so hopefully we don't have to worry about it.
Again people can wait to survey it's totally fine... but now there would be more incentive. Otherwise there is NO incentive to survey until june/july. Land is coming out ... it's done the stupid free SPS to holders should be over.
I was not trying to be salty, nor did I intend to offend you @jarvie . You tagged me for my opinion and I replied out of courtesy to you.
I did vote for the proposal when I thought it was simply for claiming the plots (which I supported).
I only gave you my explanation as to why I didn't like the proposal as written. There is no intent on my part to use manipulative rhetoric, as I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I only stated my thinking since I was asked.
I also would point out that I didn't make this comment as its own post comment, instead I just replied to you. If this passes I won't be harmed, so I don't have any objections whatsoever to people voting how they feel.
I realize that written words are sometimes misinterpreted, so hopefully you mis-read mine. I don't want to disappoint you (or anyone else) on this issue. I don't want to manipulate anyone on my part towards the outcome, and I hope you understand we just disagree on one very minor point.
I actually wanted this to pass as of about 4 hrs or so ago. Not until someone told me that I read it wrong did I even consider voting no. And I'm not asking you to change the wording or do it as I would like, I'm simply voting for what I think is right based on the reasons I've given above.
I have much respect to you for caring about the community, this proposal shows you do too. I am not doubting your intentions, and believe we wouldn't even have a game if you weren't involved from the beginning.
I'm happy to discuss further at any time and honestly I hope I've cleared up my position on it because I definitely don't want you to be disappointed in me for trying to hurt you or your proposal in any way.
It's all good i chose to discuss with you because i respect you and also because i thought it was so out of character to vote for what i guess some of us consider to be the greedy choice. (but I guess to kinda steelman what i think is your position is that you're looking out for the economics of people that will be impacted by not getting a few more months of easy sps or that they'll feel anxious about not spending money for starter packs when they do their free surveying)
I guess i brought you in because Sometimes discussing with people that we have no connection with or background with leads to so many problems and i was wanting to discuss with somone.
After looking through the list of voters it does seem like it's mostly some dog and cat accounts that are downvoting it haha... kinda funny.
Also when i did the proposal i really didn't know if it would pass it certainly wasn't a sure thing... i guess i should be impressed by the community that it's doing as good as it is.
it's a waste of Dec cause people then just split up their accounts into 100 smaller ones etc. Whales have more to lose, gain from decisions made. I haven't seen any 'loose cannons' yet just people with different ideas
This is to give LESS to the whales that sit there and don't participate or don't do things motivated to help the game. You are legit on the side of the lazy greedy whales from our perspective.
But maybe the compromise is to turn off all SPS to land until the whitepaper mining system gets approved. I'd vote for that.
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I still don't understand Surveying.
If any plot can be surveyed, there might be some issues.
If a tract has a keep already, there is no reason for someone to survey their plot at the current region/tract.
I don't know if there are any guardrails in place?
Plot land can only be surveyed if part of a complete tract exists.
Castle/Keep are pre-determined to be on a specific location, you don't want to let anyone survey the land on an ongoing tract that is still partially claimed. Does anyone have any more insight into this?
Those who are voting yes are just looking at their increased sps air drops the reall game about land is in developing it and that we will see when it is actually finished, processes are coming in bits and pieces which makes it difficult to predict what your land is going to be even strategy is difficult to make about land at the moment because no one knows the actual outcome of it if people are not surveying their land that should not stop the development of land but i feel like the team is forcing people to move each step with them. I think if land was a finished product by now there was no need for this proposal. finish development first and we will survey knowing our expected outcomes basing on what will be there. At the moment land is a pure speculation thing i think
I still don't understand Surveying.
If any plot can be surveyed, there might be some issues.
If a tract has a keep already, there is no reason for someone to survey their plot at the current region/tract.
I don't know if there are any guardrails in place?
Plot land can only be surveyed if part of a complete tract exists.
Castle/Keep are pre-determined to be on a specific location, you don't want to let anyone survey the land on an ongoing tract that is still partially claimed. Does anyone have any more insight into this?
If you have ever played any other landlord crypto game it requires regular ongoing attention. If there is no attention/upkeep your properties start loosing value and producing less. So I am voting yes on this.
I did vote for this, but I could definitely understand why someone who wanted to hold off on surveying their land would vote against it.
My position. People are waiting for specific areas on the map are now forced to claim and survey to continue rewards (from what I am understanding) or wait and potentially miss out on rewards. If we had had access to all tracts and parts of the map to pick our locations and we'd all be ready to go for this proposal. The flip side is maybe this will speed up unlocking the Wild Northeast where I want to claim but it's a no guarantee time frame. I feel like people like myself will potentially get punished for having to wait (even if it's sped up, there is no guarantee my position will be open when the rewards pass on to surveyed status) while others who have already secured their locations benenfit from being able to progress and get rewarded and call greed on those of us for being hesistent to a proposal that would see them unjustly ripped away from rewards? Maybe I'm reading the proposal wrong but that's how I see it. And maybe I wont be affected and misunderstand the proposal. But some of us do want to wait for our location and are ready to survey but will potentially stripped of rewards citing we are not active enough for not claiming yet while more than half the map remains unclaimed? Come on that's a cop out statement and while it will absorb assumed dead weight rewards, those of us who have been waiting patiently for our area to become available will now be acceptable collateral absorbing our rewards too because our desired location isn't available yet? That is where I take issue.
Such a dead community
Im reading the splinterlands post that linked this proposal, but what happens to plots that were not claimed until idk what date?
do you realize that the sps airdrop does not actually exist. it was only introduced because of a proposal and the waiting time.
I think YOU are missing the point. Nobody 'bought in' with the expectation of SPS rewards prior to land being implemented by simply holding tokens. It was never offered as an entitlement to owning tokens. The rewards were voted on as a stop gap measure until land was live. Land will now advance to 1.5 and that proposal needs to be revisited. Rewards will get cut off eventually for those who don't participate either way. Will you complain then if it doesn't happen now?
Ironically the sense of entitlement the dao vote would create was a matter of discussion...
If you're arguing from first principles then it would never be appropriate to cut off rewards for people that don't participate. Participation is the entire premise of land, not token dividends. Taking away these rewards was always bound to be an issue for some. I have about 150 plots and have doubts I will be able to survey it all in time, yet I understand the spirit of the initial DAO vote as does @Jarvie who stands to lose more than I if this passes. There will never be a convenient time to take rewards away from people, but that is inevitable.
I think not only you have difficulty understanding this proposal but also having difficulty understanding how land is supposed to work. Please invest more time reading the whitepaper which is long and complicated.
On a different note, this proposal will likely pass easily.
A couple of big hitters just voted against. Likely because of greed... so it's now very much on the fence.
you don't seem to understand well. i don't feel like explaining it to you. but your argument i would like to refute, even the one who wrote the proposal still has a whole region that is unclaimed....
There are not even 10 people who vote "no". these are almost all multi accounts of the same people you see there. do you notice anything else? 🤣
He may be an alt for one of those whale accounts... ever think of that? hahahaha