Seem to be on the right track. So you have some issues with "curation" and I don't blame you. It makes, no sense. I covered some of that already here:
https://peakd.com/vimm/@nonameslefttouse/re-foreveraverage-sifl0q
And now I'll tell you something about "tipping" in the traditional sense.
For one, peakd has had it for years and it's rarely used, compared to votes. Votes are a better deal to the consumer. When tipping, the consumer on the outside must go through all those hoops first, in order to convert their money into crypto. So they're not going to want to do that constantly, every time they want to tip. They also won't charge their account up thousands of dollars and call that a "convenience," in order to prepared to tip often. Not happening. And all this money is just going straight through the system anyway. So it's not "adding value" without incentives to hold in place.
So the solution is tipping, with votes. They can charge that up gradually, as it grows on its own as well, when they tip. They charge it once with $100, can tip forever, and still have that money. Then they can add another $100. They spend this money anyway, but now it's not spent. And if they did go ahead and charge it up a few grand, they're not blowing through that money. It's growing.
And a lot people think, "Well wtf good is two cents as a tip?" But I'm looking at it in bulk. 1000 tipping for "free" and look, it's adding up. Plus you can come by tomorrow and do it all over again. Traditional tips, you're on limited supply. The result is consistent tips rather than sporadic. So again, this adds up.
And often people think, "Well geez. That's not fair that individual can tip $5 and I can only tip 5 cents." But you'd never hear that when someone decides to drop $100 on a stream, while others did $5, and the rest did nothing. That competition and jealously elements aren't in the code. That's just people being people. The culture messes with people. They walk in the door and immediately someone is telling them "you're just a minnow and you need to be afraid of those big whales over there." It's f'd up so I just ignore that stuff. Grown adults saying they're "little people" here, but they'd never do that in public, in life.
We have all these tools here to use, and we don't need to see them in the same way we've been looking at them since 2016. That's just the culture. People can go their own way, yet still be a part of something much larger than themselves.
Pardon the relaxed nature of this comment, I'm in a bit of a hurry. You asked me to come here. If you learned anything from what I said over there and in the included linked response. Run with it.
I have to throw in a major factor that gives tipping an edge over votes, though I like both incentives. Tipping itself, goes directly to the user - in this case - the streamer. It goes to them immediately with no chance of there being any downvotes applied or having to wait for 7 days to get it. None of it is powered up, giving them an extra option to do so or instead, use it however they seem most fit.
If we are to ultimately compete with other similar platforms out there, we also have to do what they do. Some of the best advice I ever got was in a meeting with a guy named Marty Hale (think Trump was in the conference room too a few tables over) but he said - it's okay to be a copy cat, as long as you're copying the right cat.
If we want the Twitch game streamers (who get immediate tips) and the ASMR TikTokrz (who earn passively based on performance akin to our votes) then we have to honor both and not prefer one over the other. A good recipe has all the great ingredients. Leaving sugar out of the cupcake batter won't taste very good.
Offering the option, much like Peakd does and elsewhere across the internet, is still a good idea. HBD is solid for that.
These days, content creators work daily. A steady stream (see what I did there?). One works for seven days. On the seventh day, day one payments are rolling in. If they're consistent, they're still being paid daily. Most streamers are consistent. The waiting period isn't unusual either. Work for two weeks and then we have this thing called, "Pay day."
I hear you. Loud and clear. Offering counterpoints.
I'm not suggesting one is better than the other. One is a better deal and far more convenient for the consumer in this particular setting and under these circumstances. And I'll agree consumers like options.
We also have years worth of knowledge to look back on. I remember back in the day when we didn't have tips (though we still had wallet transfer), people championing the tipping idea, saying it would improve things tremendously. It's hardly used.
The root of the problem there, is the fact there has been very little focus placed on attracting the crowd that does the tipping. I use the universal term "consumers". Any other platform where we see those options being a success is majority consumers. Not content creators.
I bet if we reversed that trend, we'd see more tipping. But eventually that consumer would learn there's another option on the table that is a far better deal. The voting process is what makes this place unique.
You mentioned downvotes as well but those don't normally land on content receiving tons of organic engagement. And if streams were bringing money in the door from the consumer crowd, an actual audience is a sure sign it's not abuse or reward farming or whatever else they want to call it. Confident it would be embraced.
I remember a thing called HiveTips that actually worked and I was using quite a bit on various platforms like Twitter/X and YouTube until they got all weird and stopped supporting their code. Even helped with the marketing plan they never put in place LOL!
I mentioned downvotes because you brought up whale fear and thought that was what you were alluding to 😁 and I don't disagree with them being here either, just was my train of thought.
This is weighing on my mind. And I will refer back to the marketing plan that never went into effect for the other thing. I believe full and well, given the proper strategy, that audience already exists and would arrive with a place to call to home like we do. There is still a huge displace between traditional web2 socials and the new web3s. Once the learning curve is tackled and it's placed in a way people can understand, without fear of that new thing (because pack mentality fears change), then the S.O.S. (Shiny Object Syndrome) will set in and people won't be able to get enough of what Hive has to offer.
HA! See. It's programmed in to fear the boogieman. That mindset comes from the steemit days. Splash some cold water on your face dude. That helps me anyway. lol
And yes there are so many challenges. I've been going on about this for years though. Entire articles published every year I've been here, saying some of the same things I said here and under VIMM's post. Meanwhile crypto, in general, has been acting somewhat unappealing (to put it gently) and the average consumer today is far more fearful than years ago.
We're offering legit products though. Not crazy promises. I would never bring these concepts up to a consumer and call it an "investment". Their goal is to support the things they enjoy. Very familiar territory. But as soon as someone starts throwing all that crypto jargon at them, we just lost a customer. Perfect example would be those on autopilot here. Potential consumers, totally absent, and being paid to not look. Streaming can be incredibly successful but it won't work like that, because it doesn't work like that. So there's this massive wall of traditions, culture, common practices here between a solid shot at success as well. web3 is just on cruise control heading for a wall if we can't even get streaming to work right.
You and I speak the same language often.
"it wont work if we can't make it easy for grandma!"
Is very very true and also been saying it since 2017.
4 keys, a master million digit password and logging in is what slowed my damn coding down for a week and still isnt "good enough" for everybody - I get it technically, but what the fuck? MY brick and mortar BANK with my imaginary millions in it only has one password, that I get to pick and remember, with backup plans for getting in if I forget it, for fucks sake.
When nerds make things, they seem to forget how to basic-human sometimes, a lot of the time.
I think that's why Keychain is so popular. One password and you're in.
Always saw that as the solution to that key problem, from my perspective as someone who's using the products.
Notice how I said "products" instead of dApps or whatever? People don't know what a dApp is and just stare at the capital A, wondering why it's there in the middle like that lol.
rOfl
I hear you, tipping is actually a thing more in streaming, as a long time live streamer, on youtube primarily and twitch some, it a different kind of audience and culture. In streaming, tipping and channel subs are how the majors make their entire livings (and sponsors of course, with any sizeable audience, comes sponsors)
So the issue here is not so much "voting bad" as much as the fan culture of streamers is live tipping to get your name mentioned live, your message read outloud, etc.
And voting on live streams is a technical issue, not so much a philosophical one. Posts are votable for 7 days, they sit there and exist, waiting for voters. Streams are ephemeral, on and off with a light switch, so where and when do the votes go? There is no "post" of the video feed, though you can make posts ABOUT the video feed and those would have curation the regular old ways anyway, but during the live stream, do you have a vote button in the chat room, that goes away when the stream turns off? There is no "chain content" until you make a post about the stream, but the stream itself, technically, is not a mechanically vatable thing, so thats "my problem with voting" per se.
Thank you for coming and looking, I like your take on things in general and valued hearing your input.
Though I do think on a live video site, that organic crowd favoriting for things like "trending, most viewers, best channel" kind of stuff is exactly like you said on the proposal post, the market WILL choose its favorites, but the stake weighted voting isn't "the crowd favorites", its the biggest money favorites and when the content is live video, that could mean a home page full of late night style infomercials and paid advertising over coming the "creative" content and self defeat the whole place, because if it became a site full fast food chain ads bought by stake to fill the trending lists, nobody will watch any of it or come create there at all.
Viewer selection and not paid-for visibility is why YouTube and Twitch have organic content and audiences and smaller regional and public access cable television channels, once intended to be the domain of small creators quickly became the opposite in the 80s, full of crap commercials and infinite ads and informercials because the blocks of visible airspace can simply be bought.
I'm familiar with the streaming culture. I'd consume and study at the same time.
The voting inside chat, I think, is possible. Talk to the Peakd crew. I'm not sure but they might have a solution.
I can't help with the development side of things. I thought of a voting widget of sorts but, no clue how to explain it properly or build it. Probably have to work some layer 2 magic there but again, I'm not sure. Something simply acting as post. Maybe similar to how Inleo handles Threads. Might be some inspiration there. Again. Not sure.
Yeah I'm definitely in research and options exploration mode, which is why this sneak preview release is not monetized at all so far, I have a lot of the tipping/subscription tier ("patreon" model basically) stuff actually built into the app, but not chain integrated at the actual "cash checkout counter" bit yet. Not wanting to rush out premature solutions made based on bad decisions. But I have to keep moving, so I'll have to come up with some things soon or the whole thing is moot.
Again I appreciate your time and input, you do very thorough thinking and input and I value it highly.
A log. Each member signing into chat gets logged in on chain as well if your service writes a comment with beneficiary going to that account holder. Incoming votes on your frontend would be a vote for that comment on chain. So rather than voting in chat like one would if they "liked" something, people would vote for the account name which is just a comment behind the scenes on chain. Mitigates the risk of token farming as well since it can be monitored. Your service would only need to publish one post, then place those comments under it forever. The comments don't have to say anything. Just a placeholder. Chat login would have to expire every 24 hours so a new comment gets written for maximum rewards efficiency. Keep in mind I'm just pulling this idea out of thin air. No clue how you'd go about doing that. Maybe @acidyo would be interested in picking this apart. I don't know a damn thing about the technical side or if that would be a feasible solution.
People wouldn't be able to vote for one individual in chat numerous times in one day, so the voting or tipping with votes in chat would be used sparingly.
Logging in and logging out shouldn't trigger a new comment on chain. Just one every 24 hours or something more suitable.
Wow, I get it. Its the basis of an idea that with proper implementation could be most excellent. Daily Channel Chat Posts on the streamer's blog where they can go comment crazy and curate for each show. Comment viewer blogs ... but hrm, could lead to a lot of out of context block spam.
You're onto something in this mix though. I'm so flattered you're still thinking about it at all! Good shit.
Yeah. I'm just looking at the many tools we have, some of the approaches I've seen, and wrapping them together with tape.
Look at this:
https://peakd.com/@hbd.funder/comments
Thats exactly the sentiment I just wrote in my post of 30 seconds ago before I saw this.
https://peakd.com/hivestreams/@sircork/hivestreamslive-now-has-direct-live-streamer-tipping-via-hbdhive-or-any-tradable-hive-engine-token-via-hiveliveme-and-hive-key
I'm not saying the streamer creates a post. I'm saying you publish one that doesn't need to be rewarded. It can sit there forever, and every time someone logs in to chat, a comment is created under the post you published, and those comments would collect the votes placed upon what is being voted for in chat. That way votes can still occur, and the entire chat doesn't need to be on chain. People aren't "tipping" the posts in chat, they're "tipping" the people, in chat, for whatever reason.
No I got it, I was expanding to Stream Go Live announcments, then a following comment thread post for the day's stream comment curation, people can send their comments to this post and even be partial beneficiaries on the total post reward and on and on I got ideas now man, and you caused them!