So I've had this idea for a while now... I even sent it to @yabapmatt back in January 2024.
*Note: Some of things I said above have been changed. Keep reading. :)
Save Chaos?
Yes yes, nobody wants to save Chaos. Let's just let it sail into the wild sunset and out of modern and move on.
But wait.... What if I told you there was a better way?
AND we can burn some DEC in the process.
And if the math makes sense then why not?
Why Save Chaos?
I strongly believe that having Chaos packs selling at $0.30 and under is severely hurting the entire ecosystem. And yes, I know that getting in new players solves everything... but to me that seems like too passive of a solution. Also, I don't love the idea that new players may come in and see how affordable Chaos Legion is, buy them up, then realize that Chaos is shifting out of modern in the next 6-12 months - that's not how we get lifelong players.
How?
We would have a one time 30 day burn event that would allow players to burn Chaos Legion Core/Promo cards and packs to summon these great giants to work on land.
*Note: Only Chaos Legion Core/Promo Cards would be allowed. Chaos Legion Rewards cards and Riftwatchers would be excluded.
Introducing the Land Giants
In short these massive Land Giants will not be great in battles, however, they will shine on land. These common cards will give a % bonus to your plot of land.
Each level (1-10) that the card is upgraded gives that percent boost (similar to a totem, but they also add extra PP).
For example:
A level 1 Land Giant (1 BCX) will give 1% boost to your land plot when staked on it.
A level 7 Land Giant (150 BCX) will give 7% boost to your land plot when staked on it.
A level 10 Land Giant (400 BCX) will give 10% boost to your land plot when staked on it.
Fire: Surt The Giant
Water: Aegir The Giant
Earth: Ymir The Giant
Death: Draugr the Giant
Life: Mimir The Giant
Dragon: Angr The Giant
How will it work?
*Please don't get stuck on the numbers. I'm trying to use a general ballpark for an MVP of this idea. Everything would likely be adjusted. Also, I would like that during this event all of the Land Giants will be soulbound during the 30 days that the sale is live. Once the event is over, then all Land Giants will be unlocked and can be sold and traded.
You can only mint one of these giants by burning the same element as the giant (plus 1000 DEC per 400 BCX or 2.5 DEC per 1 BCX). For example you will need to burn a Chaos Legion Core/Promo Fire card to mint Surt the Giant.
1,100 Common Cards + 1,000 DEC would be burned to mint 1 max (400 BCX) copy of Surt the Giant
- Also note that Surt the Giant will only give a bonus to specific terrain types (Badlands, Caldera, Canyon, Desert, and Mountain). All of the other giants will follow the same minting and bonus rules as Surt does for Fire.
400 Rare Cards + 1,000 DEC would be burned to mint 1 max (400 BCX) copy of Aegir the Giant
80 Epic Cards + 1,000 DEC would be burned to mint 1 max (400 BCX) copy of Ymir the Giant
20 Legendary Cards + 1,000 DEC would be burned to mint 1 max (400 BCX) copy of Draugr the Giant
You can burn 20 Chaos Legion Packs + 2,500 DEC to mint ANY of the Land Giants.
What will the impact be?
There are too many variables to know the exact impact, but I can give some examples.
*SOURCE: SPLINTERCARDS.COM
There are 150,000 plots in Praetoria. If land owners wanted one land giant for each of their plots you're looking at about 150,000,000 DEC burned + 165,000,000 common cards (which obviously there isn't that many common cards).
*SOURCE: SPLINTERCARDS.COM
Let's say only 10% of the land owners want a Land Giant for their plots (I'm willing to bet the number is greater than this). 15,000 plots would burn 15,000,000 DEC + 6,000,000 rare cards.
I believe we could move the needle in terms of bringing value back to Chaos Legion, while also burning DEC and getting us closer to the glorious flywheel.
FAQ
- Why only Chaos Legion Core/Promo and not Chaos Legion Rewards Cards?
I believe this event will have the most impact on the economy as a whole with a focus on the core set + promos that people purchased. We are all aware that the bot farms printed the rewards cards to oblivion.
- When do you expect the team to be able to get to this?
Great question. No idea. But if enough people like it then maybe we can get it figured out. I'm pretty sure we already most of the mechanics for burning and the mechanics for the land bonus.
*I will keep updating these FAQ from the comments on the post.
- What about GF cards?
Yes, I assume we will be able to burn GF cards too, but I'm going to leave those out for now. But yes, those would add to the amount of cards burned, dec burned, and land giants minted.
- Why do the Land Giants have Chaos Legion card frames?
Because this event is to help Chaos Legion (and then the whole economy) so I don't believe making these cards part of the Rebellion set makes sense.
- Is this a proposal?
No. I haven't make it a proposal. I'm still working on the overall concept and feasibility.
- Are these Land Giants real cards?
No. I made them up using AI and googled some norse mythology names. I wanted to make this post more visual to help people imagine what this could look like.
- Why does it also cost 1,000 DEC per 400 bcx Land Giant?
Because ultimately any land owner who doesn't participate in this event will be behind in terms of production. So ultimately the brunt of this would fall on them. Land owners typically have a lot of DEC staked to land, so anything to bring DEC to peg value is a benefit to land owners.
*Full Disclosure: I currently own zero Chaos Legion packs, but I do have a maxed set, and many of these cards on some of my alt accounts.
Posted Using InLeo Alpha
Posted Using InLeo Alpha
Great post and I like the incentive structure. If we're talking about burning CL to give landholders a boost, could we not just skip the middle man and burn cards to improve land without designing and managing new cards?
From an NPE perspective, having cards in the market that are deliberately unbalanced could easily lead to newcomers buying them to battle with; not understanding their main use case is on land.
If we just burnt CL cards to reduce salinity we'd achieve most of what you're trying to get done, but with a heap less dev time.
I love the general concept. I think its definitely something that should be considered. While I haven't gone through the numbers, so I won't opine on those, I will say that this is an obvious win.
I think the only 2 objections will be:
I feel that this could appeal to 3 types of players too:
Great job @dejota and thanks for the tag @bjangles :)
Appreciate the thoughts here, Dave. Objection #2 gonna be the biggest hurdle. No idea what somethin like this would look like to implement. I wonder what @cryptomancer's $0.02 would be?
I've added a comment with my thoughts.
Thanks Dave! This is definitely a starting point so I appreciate you recognizing that this idea isn't fully fleshed out yet. And thanks for taking the time to comment and give your input - this will all help with my v2 of this idea at some point.
Brilliant start here, DJ! Nicely done man. Assuming we can afford to spare the necessary dev time at some point in the not too distant future, I would love to hear some of the big dawgs chime in here
@davemccoy @mattclarke @bravetofu @mondroid
Let's start there :)
thank you! I know there are some holes here, but I feel like the bones of this idea is very good. I’m looking forward to hearing from some others too. Thanks for reading and the comment! 💪
Awesome idea, thanks DJ.
So I'll be the first to admit that I'm not very well versed when it comes to Land. I fomo'd into a Tract at some point so I have some representation there, but I haven't spent time thinking about the Land economy very much.
With that said, I love this idea from the point of view of helping the Card & Pack economy. I don't really know whether it's the right tradeoff, but from my point of view it makes sense as the overall PP being burned, if I'm not mistaken, it considerably less than the total PP potential being created. Of course the latter is more concentrated, but in general it seems like a good tradeoff.
I suppose one consideration would be whether these cards take away from the value of other cards (e.g. gold foils, alpha/beta) who are typically your higher-concentration PP cards. Personally I am not overly worried about that, but it's possible others might be opposed to the idea because of that.
I also really like it conceptually. I think the "land giant" idea is cool and lore-appropriate.
I am not invested in land either but, I'am thinking if the ability of these giants could be such that - on land, they boost productivity by 10%, and in the game, they add the earthquake rule set (it affects both sides but u control the narrative)
This is a great idea since it will burn cards without affecting gameplay. Also the art on those cards look great!
Thanks Logen! I really appreciate it. Yeah, the AI art was fun to do. It took a while for me to feel like it understood the Splinterlands style.
Regarding "saving Chaos", I think it's a fallacy to think that Chaos Legion cards will be unwanted or not played after rotating out of Modern. When that happens, you can still play them in Wild. I play mostly in Wild myself and it's a lot of fun! I only have a Modern deck for playing (most of my older cards are on Land), but I can still climb quite high up the ranks. True, you probably need some of the older cards to compete at the Champion level, but if you're just a casual player like me then a Modern deck will still get you far in Wild.
That said, this Land Giant idea is a pretty cool concept. As a God of War fan, I especially like that you've picked names out of Norse mythology. :-) The numbers would need some tweaking to provide proper incentives (a 10% bonus feels way too low to me). I like having the bonus represented as & being granted by a new ability that all the Land Giant cards would have, rather than by the card itself. This opens the door to other cards having this ability in the future.
Instead of having the cards soulbound during the sale phase, it might be simpler to sell soulbound tokens that can later be used to mint the cards themselves once the sale phase concludes. This would be similar to how Runi minting worked, so perhaps some of that code code be re-used. That might also generate more excitement and anticipation, as people look forward to minting their cards on a certain date.
One thing that strikes me as a bit problematic, is that in order to use a Land Giant you'd have to forgo using another card with potentially higher base PP. So unless the bonus is much higher, or the base PP is higher, or the cost of minting a Land Giant is lower, you might not see as many people using these as you'd like. I have thousands of unused Land plots, and thousands of unopened CL packs. Would it really be beneficial for me to burn all those cards to mint Land Giants, as opposed to simply combining all my cards and directly putting them on plots? I suppose everyone would have to do this kind of number crunching for themselves to see if it's really worth it or not.
Also, the main thing that prevents me from expanding my Land empire for the time being is DEC. Lack of DEC means that I might not participate in this kind of promo event even if I wanted to, because I already have plenty of PP waiting to be used on Land. I just lack the DEC to stake on the plots... so it's not true that large land owners also have lots of DEC just waiting to be burned. I imagine large land owners mostly have all of their DEC staked on plots or in LPs rather than sitting around liquid. So that's also a trade-off: would the incentive be great enough for me to pull some DEC out of the LP and reduce my passive LP rewards in exchange for a bit of a land boost?
One alternative that might be interesting, is instead of minting a brand new card, you are allowed to choose an existing card which would have the Land Giant ability added to it. So you could give your current Land workers the bonus, which might reduce or avoid the necessity of having to do the kind of cost / benefit analysis mentioned above, and hence make it look like a more attractive option for current large land owners. Although it's probably more fun to have a brand new class of cards as you envision it.
From a dev point of view, no matter how you tweak it this is going to require a good bit of work and thus will need proper prioritization against existing projects. But I wouldn't view that as a reason not to do this; it's probably something that we can fit in at some point, but likely would need to be sometime next year rather than in the immediate future.
TL;DR: the idea is interesting and has potential, but needs to be massaged and polished a bit to really make it shine.
Love the detailed concept and think it has a lot of promise overall. We've been wanting some kind of land specific promo card for awhile.
The challenge comes in from Land being underdeveloped so while these cards are awesome, until land 1.7 or beyond comes out it probably wouldn't make sense to push something like this in the near term.
If we focus on timing, let's be optimistic and assume they get new resources and utility for research out in January of 2025. If we assume no mini-set and therefore a Q2 launch of the next core set - before Chaos rotates out of modern - that gives us a window of 3-5 months early next year where this could make a lot of sense.
The only wrench in the plan? If the bull run begins or the team starts any kind of marketing that brings new players in to scoop up these cards and packs. But hey - that's a good problem right?
I think this is a brilliant idea and lovely presented. Thank you for that!
Maybe a proposal should include asking the DAO for funding to hire an external on this as the team is full handed already. Would probably be good to ask Matt for feedback about options and costs for that before writing the proposal.