This post might not make everyone happy, but too bad. I think it is all constructive feedback. Before you all jump in to defend Khal, relax, I'm not criticizing anyone or pointing fingers here.
Wen?
Everyone is busy asking Wen, like impatient kids on a road trip. "Are we there yet?"
Guess what - good things take time. And usually more time than you think they will. And then a few more weeks on top of that.
Building stuff is tough, if it was easy then it wouldn't be special.
Getting to the point...
The Leofinance.io website is going backwards. I'll present a few stark examples of how things are looking, but know that I am not trying to FUD. I still love Leofinance, it's my Crypto home. But there is a problem I wish to address.
Exhibit A
Simple Analytics stats.
A very clear pattern in this chart. A very nice, steady growth in visits to Leofinance over a number of months. Then a "blow-off-top" to use chartists speak, then a steady decline. Guess what happened around the peak?
Exhibit B
Alexa Ranking
That chart is the last 90 days. I can see that the best rank Leofinance reached in the timeframe (and I think overall but can't say for sure) was around 35,000 in mid Feb. Now, it has slid down to 45,000 at the time of this post. The main downtrend began in late March.
Exhibit C
LEO token Price
Given this chart cover the entire life of LEO, not just the recent time frame covered in the previous chart, it is a bit tricky to compare, but It looks lo me that the peak price for LEO was around $1.20 and has been declining since the end of March.
So, what happened in March to change everything?
CubFinance.
This launched, and all of LEO's momentum has stalled. Up to this point, everything was growing very nicely. The site was gaining in traffic all the time, and the token value was following the same trend.
So, is it all Cub's fault? No, it is ours. The effort being put in dropped, noticably, once Cub came out. Many people posted their "Cub is the best shit ever" type of post, and then went off farming away and letting the base of the project (The Leofinance website and LEO) stagnate. This may seem harsh, but it's just the way I see it. I'm guilty - 100% - so don't think for a second I'm preaching any kind of moral superiority. From March 9 (when Cub launched) to Apr 25 I posted just 5 posts. That's 5 posts in 7 week.
Outward facing content.
Posting on Leo, about Leo, achieves very little for the eco-system. It boosts stats a little, but it does not bring people in.
Here is another stat for you: In the last 7 days, 1,200 visits to Leofinance.io have come from twitter. Thats someone on twitter seeing a tweet with a post link in it, and clicking to view the post. Of those 1,200 , 357 have been clicks to my articles, with another 37 being to a post I tweeted out by @d-company. So you can 394/1200 = 33% of all traffic from twitter in the last 7 days.
Also, Reddit. 303 visits to Leofinance from Reddit in the last week. 93 to my content. 30%.
Am I special - no. Definitely not, I'm noboby. But I can write a post, and share it out such that the target community will see it and visit Leo to read it.
Guess what, there are thousands of projects out there in crypto that are desperate for people like us to write about them.
post about Munch and shared it on twitter. That post brought 136 visitors to Leofinance. Did anyone here on Leo care about Munch before that - no. But the Munch team saw some user generated content about their project and shared it. And the community who were into munch read the post.Just look what happened when @crystalhuman wrote a
Projects love User Generated Content. It builds the community narative, and attention on the project. The community already into a project also loves seeing someone new writting about their favourite shitcoin. It affirms for them that they are not alone, and there is more people finding and posting about their favourite token.
None of this will increase Leo membership overnight. It's the long haul boring grind of researching and writing a post, and then sharing it out on twitter and reddit. Over time, as we saw during the late part of last year and early 2021, it pays off with growing traffic numbersw, and ultimately the "LeoFinance brand" infront of more peoples eyeballs.
So, my question Leofinance community is this:
Are we all going to just sit around and wait for @khaleelkazi to do all the work and pump our bags? Does LeoFinance.io website even matter to you anymore? Do we just let it die a slow death until the #projectblank mirage materializes? Do we all just farm away on Cub and wait for the next shiny toy to come along?
Or, do we turn this around and get back to the basics? Post, blog, engage and share outwards focused content. Get back to the hustle and effort that wasd starting to put LEO on the map, and pushing the LEO token up.
Please know, this post is not a criticism of anyone at all, it is my perception only and if you don't like it, feel free to let me know.
Not FUD, just Feedback.
Thanks for reading,
JK.
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I reported issues to post several times, and tagged @leofinance, but they least bothered to reply even once. Even no one else was able to help, to resolve that error. Few other also reported the same error. Since then, I stopped writing.
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Sorry about that, yeah that is frustrating. If by "issue" you mean a problem on the website, your're best to go to the Discord site in the #tech-support channel. You can also tag me shwn#1670 and I can try to help.
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Hopefully, now that there is a dev on board tasked with looking after the Leo site, and checking discord regularly issues like this will be addressed and resolved quicker.
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Yikes, those are some sobering visuals...
Remember the simplest way to increase the LEO token price has always been to increase traffic.
Increased traffic leads to more ad revenue, which can then be used to burn LEO and provide a floor.
I remember @nealmcspadden being one of the biggest proponents of this and even having the traffic numbers required to keep us at $1 LEO through ad burns alone.
Neal, do you mind chiming in here and adding your 2c on the issue now we're a few months further along and traffic/price is starting to slide?
Further to this point, what happened to the content planning stuff that was being looked at?
That AI thing wasn't worth the money that agency wanted, but we need some sort of keyword research driven content plan that our literal army of content creators can work from.
Any news from the top on this?
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Yup, the basics of the site is build more visits, get more ad revenue, and use it to burn LEO. Someone else mentioned somewhere that the team has dropped of its communications. I totally understand they are busy, and building new stuff as fast as they can. But regular updates help build momentum. People read a Burn report and that adds motivation - it provides tangible proof that all our collective effort is not only benefiting ourselves through post payouts, but also the community overall through burns and higher token prices.
Perhaps Khal needs a content person, or a PA or something to handle all the time consuming little details like this that he used to do all himself, but now doesn't have the time for.
Tweets help, but a burn report happening regularly, Geyser being payed on time, and so on are all the little details that have fallen by the wayside lately.
Again, not criticism, I totally understand how busy Khal and the team has become, but hopefully just a nudge back to the basics.
Thanks for adding to the discussion mate.
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It is not criticism, but it is definitely a critique. And critiques are good, they help us grow.
Criticism cuts down, critique builds.
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These 2 statements apply equally to the developers as well as the users I feel. One of the reasons I loved LEOFinance was the effort the team put in to keep the community informed about what was going on and the inclusiveness of it.
I learned alot in the round tables, for example.
Now it's just all this "wen" stuff which gets boring fast, with the occasional update for the bigger traders who hang out in Discord.
LeoFinance used to feel like a real community with all members being important. Now it just feels like another platform with a growing gap between the "little" people and those in the know.
I still come here everyday and manually curate and learn what I can but the shine has one off it.
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I think it is up to the community to push it along, and I hope this post can be a bit of a wake up call. The team are working hard, but the base is up to us, to keep the community vibes and inclusiveness.
Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to the "wen" stuff, and like to be involved in all that, but the base layer is looking a little shaky to me at the moment. It just feels like many are doing well off the new stuff, and leaving the grind to others. But will the new stuff keep going ok if the base falls away?
Felt it was time to say something, I've been trying to turn my personal effort around and get back to what was working for me. Like I said, this criticism applies to me as much as anyone, went very inactive for a while.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter.
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I agree but then they look like two very different projects to me and Project Blank will be a third. Maybe it's natural that they would attract different audiences?
I've been wondering that too. I imagine it will if new users are attracted from outside LEOFinance but I don't think it will magically happen just because there's a lot of insider enthusiasm. Especially given that that enthusiasm is loosing steem.
I was really surprised when I saw the numbers in a recent post at just how small the LEO community actually is. It's amazing how well CUBFinance has done given the small number of people involved.
Many of the projects in the Defi space are working with huge budgets/numbers, relatively.
That's all we can do I think . . . continue with what works for us personally. All this stuff is still so new with many moving parts. Nothing's a certainty that's for sure.
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I think that the new stuff is all nice additions to the overall picture, but the Leofinance site and community has been the base and needs to continue to be. I'd just hate for it to become an echo-chamber with no outward focus.
The other double edged sword is that with Cubfinance now it is much easier to sell LEO out for other crypto's. Previously it was sell on a fairly illiquid hive engine market, then send hive off to trade. Now, just wrap LEO in seconds and swap to a huge range of options on BSC. Much easier to sell LEO now.
Anyway, at least this post gathered some attention, and hopefully reminded people to get back to what was working for a while.
Thanks heaps for your input.
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But this is a great thing. It means that this is the "real" value of LEO. You can get rid of it so many different ways, and look how much is still being held.
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This is a great perspective. It's much easier to sell, some will (or sell half to bnb to pool) and it is still holding a solid value. Off ATH but still doing ok.
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I'm so grateful of you posting here and your previous idea from last week. I just started working on the leofinance site (not involved in any of the defi stuff) and want to do what I can to make this project and community successful. I don't have much time to write, but I think I can make more of an impact anyway by listening to what y'all want and adding it to the site.
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Firstly, welcome aboard. It is great to see that there is now a dedicated person to look after the website, and have that as your sole focus. I'm not a tech person, have no idea if any of the stuff I suggest is even possible, but I do like chucking out ideas when they pop up. Now that I know there is someone to throw these ideas at, I'll keep chucking them out there in the feedback and suggestions channel on discord.
I get that writing posts isn't really your priority, building cool stuff for the site is. But might I suggest at least one post, doesn't have to be fancy, just a hey, I'm here, looking after the site dev now, feel free to leave feedback and suggestions. One post and I guarantee you will get heaps of stuff to filter through and consider for upgrades/fixes for the site.
Anyway, it's great to see you reading these kinds of posts, and keeping an eye on discord.
Best of luck in your new role.
JK.
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Yeah, I already have a huge list just in things that I have come across. At this point I don't want to open the floodgates any more, but that time will come soon ... probably this weekend or (more likely) next week when a new version of the site is up. At that point, would love to have the community input on what is most important.
Your idea about generated pages for crypto projects is something which could definitely be done, but it would take some time. Trick is to figure out what gives us the most bang for the buck. And as you point out here, things that increase the value of LEO should have a high priority.
And yes, I'll make sure to stay engaged. It's easy for me to dive into code (all those dopamine hits!) and stay there, but it's a good point that we're all here for the community, and just a bit of time to stay engaged is important for our success.
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Nice to have you for the site's user interface. I have a few suggestions. It will be great if we can have an exclusive channel on Discord to discuss the UI. People can report bugs or through suggestions. I personally have noticed a few bugs and have some suggestions but reporting them on other channels just vanish away. I have tried that in the past and it didn't work.
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Yeah, that's a good idea. Right now the #tech-support channel has mostly defi stuff. Unfortunately I think at the moment Khal has his hands full with Bridge, but I'll bring that up next time I hear from him.
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I'm not in any way affiliated to leo, I have very vague idea of what it is, what's its business model, etc (yet?), especially the Cub you mentioned, so what I say now may be completely missed, but what you are writing seems to match very well a few cases of other communities or crypto-farms I've seen earlier. The concept of "let it just grow" is really widespread, and mostly unconscious. Its damaging effect shows up almost instantly whenever a new option of "automating" or "hand it over" shows up. I guess it's something in our education, or culture, something makes us expect to be given things without effort from our side, I don't know why. But that's why all those financial pyramid schemes work so well in the beginning, and why we're seeing their smaller version, referral systems, almost everywhere. It may be somewhat far-shot, but I would even classify the whole "Proof-of-Stake X mining X inflation" idea to be very near this, as it is clearly pyramid'al, the sooner you get in, the more you get of it, but it cannot be just changed to Proof-of-Stake-and-Activity, because activity can be automated so easily :) But, random extrapolations aside, what you write sounds very plausible.
LEO at its core is about a community with a common theme of being interested in investments and crypto. The best way we can build the value of LEO token is through showing up and putting in the effort.
There is no pyramid here, anyone can show up at anytime and succeed.
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There is something else that happened shortly after CubFinance came to life. Official communications moved from Leofinance to other platforms, mostly. Partly, I understand that, because it takes time to write a great post, and Khal has his plate full in the dev area now. But I don't think it's the best idea to move these communications off-Leofinance. They build excitement in the community.
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Agree.
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Definitely a very valid point. Com's should be on LEO firstly, then shared out to other platforms like Twitter. Khal needs to employ/incentivize a content creator to keep the community informed and keep the lines open. A go between the team and the community with open communication lines both ways. In the past, Khal used to do this himself, but obviously now he is busy with all the behind the scenes stuff.
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I think this is fair. I haven't posted shit since cub launched
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Wen more posts ser?
I'd love to see an update on how your Curve strategies and stablecoin farming is going.
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I moved all my curve funds to cubdefi on opening day.
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Good feedback to bring us back to where and how it all began, always good to look after the old ones because they were here before the new.
It's our responsibility to keep Leofinance buzzing with activities within and outside.
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Yes, definitely up to the community to keep driving this along. There is stuff from the team that could help, but it's our day to day effort that pushes LEO, or lets it sink.
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Wow... I noticed Leo price is less than than of HIVE and was thinking just yesterday what happened?...
BTW...what do you mean by companies liking it a lot when people write about shit coins?
Why there are good projects right and Leofinance is good one right. Anyway.
Excellent analysis!!
I don't get much in Leofinance so I don't post there...but been aware its a happening place about.
I am sure it will take off.
CUB finance yeah I put stuff for farming and stuff, but I am bored, its not complete DEFI functionality atall like swaping and all and too many cool DEFI projects are already there about.
I am thinking of taking out stuff from CUB and doing something else. Your post was a reminder of that, so thanks.
There are so many projects around crypto, also desperate for attention. Attention = more potential buyers = token price increases = more attention. When we write a blog post about a project, we are giving them attention, basically free advertising. If we get that content out, and it's good quality, with some analysis and personal connection, they will promote it.
This feeds back to Leo as more people visit the site to read the post, and may stop and look around. Organic growth.
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Continued development is a must, even if it's just updates about what is to come. Stalled development or not relying and constantly being in front of people in this industry will cause fall off and sadly people chase money. Instead of everyone talking about DeFi and Cub they are talking about Pancake and Ethereum now. Hives team can also take a note of this as well and I'm happy to help just no idea where to start or who to talk to so I kind of just do my thing and try and promote it as much as possible.
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@jk6276 suggested that I post something to start gathering more issues and suggestions, and I'll do that next week. I'm just a bit worried about a floodgate of issues coming in that I need to sort through :)
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I think the site needs some kind of "head of content" so to speak. Moderating the "curated" section, producing the "daily Leo" post and with an open communication line to the team, to keep us updated on the progress of developments.
This help's. This is probably all most of us can do, but any outside eyeballs landing on a blog post is a potential new community member.
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Nice shout out. I'm still maintaining my consistency in writing. I write every single day. I'm not sure how I can check if my posts are adding value or not. If someone can analyze it and let me know, I can work on it. But from what I see my posts are not very popular. Maybe the topics I choose to write about are like that. I found that topics relating to Leofinance and the projects of Leofinance become a good hit. But there again like you mentioned, I think it is not good for the ecosystem.
More generic finance content that would attract people from the other side of the world will be more beneficial in my thought. I know a few people who understand nothing about Hive but are familiar with other chains. Maybe contents covering other chains as well can be an added advantage. Don't know but these are just some random thoughts.
I don't know how to create more visibility but I still keep going. Once in a while leo.voter will also visit my post making me happy but that is also not consistent. But I'm still motivated and energetic and will continue my journey on Leofinance.
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I'm thinking one of the best ways to get more visibility is through cross-posting to Twitter. Especially if you (or someone you know) has a lot of followers. Even without that, I good hashtag can bring some nice visibility.
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It's hard to know how much traffic a particular post generates, unless it brings a lot and shows on the simpleanalytics site.
It's a tough call, there is no doubt that content about LeoFinance generally earns higher rewards. There is probably only a few LeoFinance community members that would actually read my regular posts about Akash for example, and those posts generally earn me lower payouts, but they bring hundreds of external visitors to the site. I'm yet to really figure out a way to reward outward facing content better.
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I agree it was Cub Finance being the issue. I quit using Leo finance when that came out. To be honest, it made Leo Finance look and market itself like, "Hey, we're another fly-by-night project, after we launch a project, we move on to the next, and keep asking for investments into the next big thing." -- Projects always looking for the next best thing, are never the best thing. Investment gets confused and dispersed, interest dwindles. Maybe I'll put $100 into LEO. But then if I put $100 into LEO and Cub shows up, what I put $50 into that? Then Kitty Finance shows up next month and I put $25 in that? Catfish-Fi? It diminishes the idea and slows down accumulation in the core asset.
Plus, Leo Finance was difficult enough for me to research on, the last thing I wanted to heap on that plate was learning about Cub Finance.
The best sort of alternative projects to launch are in established communities, and it needs to be an additive project not a subtracting project.
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You have some great points and I totally agree with you.. However, I would also add the fact that "the leo team" was amazing in terms of communication previously as well. It has been a long time since we got those "regular updates" and the "daily dose of LEO news" so to speak. Those things keeps the hype alive..
When the hype is gone, it's like starting from scratch again if you didn't had tremendous results during the hype. So that's one of the worst parts, according to me. That we stopped hearing things.
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See the same thing in trying to get engagement. We now have a number of people leaving over 500 comments per week through the Leofinance UI and yet cannot even get to 10K in a week.
Different metric from what you pointed out but still the same result.
You bring up a good point.
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Yeah it will be interesting to monitor. I think that part of the surge was people excited and positioning for Projectblank. Now that seems to still be a WIP without a clear guidance to launch timing, maybe the enthusiasm and burst of activity has faded.
Time will tell, but as a community we can all do our bit.
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Interesting stats and insights. I can see a future for the platform but there does need to be a continued focus on engagement. CUB has taken the focus away from the core that is LEO and Proof of Brain. Looking forward to seeing what the next projects bring and how this adds to the LEO value.
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I think this seems to be the general feeling for many. Leofinance was really buzzing along for a while there, seemingly with very strong momentum. Finding the missing pieces to get that back is an interesting challenge.
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Price drives activity, when the LEO price was high more people felt compelled to write content because the rewards are higher. Activity will come back again when prices go up back to $1 per LEO.. its just a matter of time.
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As a part-timer, I am a little "late to the game" sometimes, but just now reading this @jk6276. You may be surprised at my first reaction. "Why would someone as well established in LeoFinance as John have to bend over backwards to ensure everyone he means well?"
This sadly is too common here on the Hive blockchain. Far too much thin-skinned inability to listen to and accept well intentioned constructive "criticism" (or whatever politically-correct word one may wish to insert ...). I think that is a significant problem and, by itself, needs attention by the right people ...
Anyway, my other quick thought, since I do check in regularly to Discord, is the increasing number of issues raised about the LeoFinance.io UI that seem to go unattended. Continuous improvement / maintenance are not optional, if we want LEO to thrive. I think the new UI turned out last year was very impressive, but almost immediately there was a lot of feedback about ideas for making it better still. It doesn't appear to have been a priority ...
Anyway, I appreciate anyone writing posts which are well intentioned in bringing up issues needing attention and I think this clearly can be so characterized. Good job John! Especially for an Aussie, in the future, don't be too concerned about how it might be perceived. You have a well-deserved reputation and should just be able to rely upon it speaking for itself.
My $0.02 ... Have a good day "down under!" 👋
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You get my 0.06 LEO full vote lol. I am staking my few hundred LEO and really appreciate receiving the small rewards I get for posting on the LEO site directly, small as they are. I continue to post 3-4 a week on LEO out of 7 and like your reminder to post our links on Twitter.
April has been challenging for LEO it seems which is odd since it's altcoin season and we should be seeing growth.
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Thanks for sharing this with us. I think you're right and we should contribute in making successful the website we all love!
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I am coming back after long break, but I feel comparing these statistics against HIve price may be more fair.
Since Hive has spiked , I feel that we might lost few userbase "that was transitioning from Hive to Leo Interface".
But point is valid , decreasing traffic does not look good.
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I am not interested in CUB but leo yes. Leo is the foundation of all leo projects , do not forget to the first step.
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Growing pains. The second use case for LEO, (staking on CUB/UNI) and the now third use case (bridging ETH/BSC) means that the project itself is in great shape. The front end has seen a dip, but I would say that will likely change as the May bulls keep running.
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You're right man, it's exactly like a kid with a new toy, when he gets another one he just forgets about the old one.
And although here have been very active users, others who have a greater weight in the community are not and of course the crowds follow the examples of the leaders.
So once again we can see that greed reigns over doing something sustainable and good for everyone.
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It's our responsibility to keep Leofinance buzzing with activities within and outside.
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That is a piece of the puzzle.
Reminders do help and we need more to stay
in course
and keep Leofinance where it should be.
I am holding on and posting with Leofinance.
Actually I saw my upvote with Leo increases
so it is good for the lions that stay behind
to continue to grind.
!BEER
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View or trade
BEER.BEERHey @jk6276, here is a little bit of from @pouchon for you. Enjoy it!Learn how to earn FREE BEER each day by staking your
BEER.Lol well I never talk about leo it’s pretty much macro and BTC only that’s what I’m interested in! I leave the alt coin talk to others who are deeper into that I’d just sound like a moron not that I’d don’t sound like one now but for me learning about BTC and messing around there is more than enough to keep me bystv
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markets and projects have cycles, but I hear your point and it is valid.
I personally jumped into cub at the expense of my Leo and now I am buying it back.
But also small teams with multiple projects can easily get spread too thin.
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I think your assessment is spot on! Ironically, I only began posting and commenting here more in early April, so I'm bucking the trend a little.
I'll keep bucking the trend (despite the little time I have), and hope others will join in too! :)
EDIT: one other thing I'm wondering about here... does the rise of the POB community perhaps affect LEO's success as well, pulling away users?
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I noticed the same in the stats. Working on some articles now I got free time :)
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So I stopped posting so bad that I havent even done my spinvest post...
My time is very limited and I come here to curate and sadly... YAWN.
Maybe I need to scroll more but I agree that things are looking a little stale.
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Hi @metzli, good to see you. I was wondering how you are. I guess lots going in life 😍 How's the tarot readings?
The tarot readings are going great!
I had sold my condo so I could buy a home, but the process has taken a LONG time. I sold Dec 31, and I finally opened escrow yesterday.
It turns out I needed a few thousand extra dollars, and I doubled down on my tarot reading earnings so I did not have to cash out any crypto.
I lost on lots of writing opportunities, but kept every single one of my crypto cents.
I wasn't about to use my hard earned crypto to buy fiat!
Thanks for checking in, I will be normalizing and picking up the pieces very very soon.
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Ah, how exciting! I thought something big must be going on 😍.
Congratulations on getting your new home and keeping your crypto. Looks like you're in line for Saver of the Year!
Good to know you're okay.
Great post. Bit similar as what we read abou hive in general. But often the smallest communities bond best....
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usage spikes and declines with the price of the token, same for similar platforms.
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Being a newbie on this site, I guess I need some more time to answer your questions and see what and how I can add for the benefit of the community. But I am sure about one thing, no one can say, they will not do their best to uplift the community. I will keep reading before saying anything.
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