I saw a long comment from @nonameslefttouse to a disgruntled Hive artist the other day, about the value of getting supporters from other social networks to power up a little Hive and support here as well. Now, that isn't exactly new, but there is a couple lines in there that are pure gold.
When someone stakes tokens in order to upvote, that doesn't cost them money. All they're doing is transferring value from their bank account to their Hive account. They're still in possession of their money and with that property they can support, for free.
Entire comment
Now, Mr Lefttouse is astute and as adept at explaining concepts as any of the best out there, and the nuance in this is fantastic.
Do you see the beauty of Hive?
This is all about value transfer and for someone buying HIVE with fiat, they are transferring the value from one currency that they don't own, into a tool that they do. They aren't losing the value in this transfer, they are just converting it into another form and a form that means they can
spend that same "money" forever.
The "spending" is of course through staking and those vests having access to the newly minted pool of tokens that get distributed through various mechanisms. But, if a person chooses not to continue on this path, they have the option to power it down again (yes, it takes 13 weeks) and convert it back into something else of value, or use it to buy some Splinterlands cards and rent them out, or something else...
The value isn't gone.
However, it is of course valued by market dynamics, which means it could be either higher or lower than the starting fiat value. It is the "lower" that people fear of course.
However, what is also interesting in this is that if a person was to support an artist, as well as other artists who are in the Hive community in this way, the value they would be providing through the stake draw on the pool, would be distributed in HIVE or HBD, which means that there is a "higher or lower" factor in there also. This means that the artist could sell for fiat example today and get market prices at the 45 cent mark, or hold on to it for the next bullrun and have the tokens earned today, valued at magnitudes more.
For example, every 5% vote I give on a comment works out to about 20 cents, where I get 10 cents worth in HIVE POWER and the author gets 10 cents generally split between HIVE POWER and HBD. However, that is at 45 cents. If we say that after 10 comments in the week the person has earned a dollar worth of votes at 45 cents, if they sold down the track when the price is $2.50, those ten comments earned $5.50 worth of value. That might not sound like much, but it adds up. Not only that, if it takes two years to get to that price and only the HIVE POWER was held, it would have increased by about 20% in volume that time through curation. That means those 10 comments earned almost $7.
That is not too bad, but few have the patience for it.
However, what should be remembered along that way, was that was literally about 2.5 HIVE worth of comment votes, but that 20% extra would also mean that the same amount would have been going to other people in the community. Other artists perhaps. If a person has 100K fans that bought 5 HIVE each (~2.50 worth) they would literally have a whale vote of 11 dollars a day currently - but the entire group would be pushing out 110 dollars worth of votes, if voting 10x a day.
That is a bit of support for artists around the world.
And then of course, if this was what people started doing, the value of HIVE would start to increase alongside the activity, meaning that the people who converted fiat value into HIVE value, would likely see their value grow quite nicely, including the value they are distributing to the content they love.
You want to support the arts?
Well, if you really want to support struggling artists, Hive is the place to do it, because it is a growing ecosystem with many other aspects that factor into the value of the blockchain. Rather than just relying on creator attention for value, Hive also has other reasons for people to use and buy HIVE, as well as stake it. This means that there is spread of usecase on the individual token, so while one person is using it to upvote art content, another is using it to stake on Polycub for a yield return. And, yes, this adds value to the staked users voting too, because with less stake in the pool, the more power their vote has.
What is stopping people?
Essentially - it is shortsightedness.
People want what they want now and most people are not keen to participate in the long process of building the mechanisms. This is the same for most content creators on Hive too, who think that dumping their work here is "adding value" even though they do very little to ensure that what they offer actually has value for their audience.
But, all that could change in a near instant with a little bit of chanced publicity of some kind, which could see a million people join in a week with 10K of them spending a couple hundred dollars on some HIVE, just to give it a go.
Pipedream?
I don't think so - but it isn't likely to happen too soon. However, the world economy is changing, as is the employment market and the way people live their lives in general. Digitalization is in full swing, but up until now the value of it has been largely exploited by a handful of companies. We are approaching a tipping point though, where more people are looking to capitalize on their activity for their own value expansion, rather than just being milked of value like cows.
And, the other factor that is going to come into it is the ownership of content, experience, transaction data and a little bit of digital space to call our own. It seems like a fad at the moment, but NFTs and tokenized social networks are going to be very mainstream soon enough, just as all of the gadgets and things you use daily now, were a decade or two ago.
Hive offers both of these things in a handy little platform with a base token that provides ownership as well as earning potential rolled into one. Conveniently, that same token also makes up the protection mechanisms through decentralization, provides for governance decisions and can act like any currency, except it can be anywhere on the network in three seconds for free.
I just don't get why people don't see this - but then, most are just interested in what they can get out of a situation, not what they can put in, even if what is put in still benefits them directly and gives them something out. But, all of these little interactions and transactions on Hive add up over time to create a pretty impressive ecosystem. It is like dabs of paint mixed on a palette and applied to a canvas one tiny stroke at a time, to create a masterpiece.
Perhaps being on Hive is a creative artform of its own.
Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]
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One thing that might hold some back from powering up is the price fluctuations, it’s very tempting to take advantage of the trades, when hive went up a week or so ago a lot would have sold it, and now will be buying back waiting for the next price increase.
Yeah, for the traders for sure. However, for those who are looking to support content of some kind, it is more "buy low" to get as much stake as possible and then ride it :)
Funny. I just finished saying this to a noob in my comment section not so long ago:
That was about new accounts making the 'purchase' for a bit of HP for RC.
Been trying to teach that particular element, for years. It's the same if an individual just wanted some RC. It works supporting a content creator, and several of them work for tips now but this is a far better deal. Works supporting the arts, and not just that but anything; science papers for instance. It's the same if a developer or group needs the ability to create accounts and power their operation. That money is not spent.
If I had the extended reach some of these folks have here, I wouldn't be talking about it, I'd be doing it. I'd have thousands upon thousands of small votes trickling and several tokens pulled off the market and placed in the hands of consumers. One individual can do a lot with that and if thousands were all doing it we'd have millions of active accounts contributing daily. That's always been the missing element in my mind. Supportive consumers getting the deal of the century.
I don't understand why it is so hard for some people to understand, especially when you position it so clearly - do people go out of their way not to understand? It is almost like that trolling technique of taking the worst possible interpretation of something said, as if it was intended to be said that way. At some point, it has to be active ignorance.
It does get annoying. I think it has more to do with people not realizing exactly how much freedom they have though. They show up thinking they're working or providing for 'a platform', rather than their own platform.
The conditioning for the renter mindset is very strong.
Yes!
This is THE killer truth. I read so many newbie posts that finish with the words 'working for' Hive. They genuinely think that all they need to do is turn up, post 'The 5 health benefits of Apples' and then sit and wait to be handed cash.
In Grics case, he is an entitled prick who thinks he simply exchanges his pictures for rewards. He has NO interaction with anyone else's posts and is too arrogant to look further than his own payout.
Then he gets abusive when people downvote him. You think he'd understand the mechanics and economics after 5 years here.
A large market on the outside means nothing here, on the inside. Over the years I've noticed several members with large markets on the outside all have one thing in common. Often there's very little interest in their work here on the inside when compared to what's available to them on the outside. That's not a problem with 'this platform', it's a problem with how they approach using 'their platform' and proof a large market on the outside has little to no value here, on the inside.
Enabling someone with a large market on the outside to sit here and collect rewards with virtually no actual audience/viewership is a fancy way for those stakeholders to shoot themselves in the foot. All they're doing is contributing to 'money out the door' rather than encouraging 'money in the door' by teaching those with large markets about the opportunities available to them here. I was stunned learning that one had such a large fanbase all while struggling to get views here but at the same time there's always been far too much focus placed on attracting content creators and absolutely no interest in attracting content consumers (a problem I've been pointing out for years).
People here could onboard 1000 of the biggest names in the game streaming/content creation field as example, but that would do nothing to increase the size of the actual market of consumers here. Zilch. Could bring 10000; no change in the size of the consumer base here as a whole. Those 'big names' are nothing without those people enjoying their work. Those people spending their money throwing tips at these content creators nonstop are wasting their money when compared to what's available here. Here, those consumers do not spend the money, throw it away, or burn it on a good time.
No need for a new frontend or fancy new code. Everything needed is already in place. All a 'big name' needs to do is teach supporters the benefits of this system, and do it for themselves, their platform not 'the platform'. This has the potential to be incredibly disruptive in the entertainment/news and information industry. Turns it on it's head and shakes out the greedy middleman.
Anyway obviously I'm rambling about this shit again and should probably stop.
I appreciate the reply and again..
This is the key as a consumer myself, and as a consumer, I consume based on personality and content, I like nice people but as the focus is always on rewards, rewards, rewards it makes Hive a shithole of z list creators with a smidgeon of cream who happily do rise to the top. Yourself as a perfect example.
I don't know the answer, there probably isn't one but the contemptuous attitude of the grics and world travel twats is sickening.
There are however, enough decent folks with integrity to keep me consuming.
Best wishes and thanks again :-)
I agree with you. That specific personality type is a tough one to navigate. I've yet to find a way to enjoy those experiences.
I doubt anyone on this planet pays attention to and supports things they don't naturally connect with somehow.
I too enjoy playing the role of consumer here and enjoy supporting the random things I stumble into. And even when someone is graciously spending time leaving a comment under my own work, that is also content I'm consuming, enjoying, rewarding.
Have a good one Nathen.
I remember trying to onboard an artist from reddit once, showed them the onchainart community and without saying the rewards artists were earning by posting their new work, progression, etc. She straight up just asked me how much I'm willing to pay for her artwork to be "listed" there. As if her artwork being on hive in and of itself would somehow profit me or hive directly. Now the latter of course has somr value but she was coming from an angle where she expected her artwork just being here to generate someone income thus wanting up front payment for it. I tried to tell her that we don't have any adrevenue system and that it's more like a social media platform, you wouldn't ask random reddit moderators for payment to post your artwork in r/art, what you get from it is visibility and some shitty reddit awards compared to here you can also earn some liquid crypto and stake in the ecosystem. She said she is not bothered cause Hive doesn't seem to have that many users and the rewards seem too good to be true considering how inactive it is.
My take from that is that we indeed are quite small yet and to paraphrasr Andreas Antonopulous a social media platform really needs a certain amount of users where everyone knows someone on there who enjoys it and spends time there and gives out a good word to those who ask, before a certain news event or hype causes everyone to want to join and the platform to go hyperbolic.
I've also said it in the past to those who are against the way hive inflation is distributed to content creators right now, we're just too early and too few for it to blossom properly and show its real value and how good it works and scales. Tho it works a lot better now than it has in the past, I long to see days where you have thousands upon thousands of smaller stakeholders all actively curating posts and comments.
It can be a bit confusing, especially for artists more accustomed to the traditional art hustle. Bring any busker with a bit of ambition though and they'd have their account rocking in no time. I made a bit of a quip in my most recent post about how some traditional artists don't like my approach. Some of that stems from speaking to folks on the outside behind the scenes, trying to get this thing rolling. And it's hard for some because deep down they lack confidence so when you say half is going so someone else, they flip out thinking the percentage is too high, not realizing that isn't a greedy middleman, it's the actual fans and followers getting that money. Sometimes they think they wouldn't be able to drum up that kind of support but I disagree. And there's no real need for marketing in the traditional sense. Simply directly connecting with people and chilling is the new 'marketing' in a sense, and of course one can still make traditional sales as a side hustle. Consumers getting paid is a huge game changer but for now causes more confusion than anything. New concepts do that to people.
Truly do need to get this support system on the minds of more people, and more people here. Those thousands of small stakeholders would make up the majority of stake once it's all woven together.
Pardon those edits. Was having a few beer LOL!
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The rewards earned on this comment will go directly to the people( @steevc, @steemadi ) sharing the post on Twitter as long as they are registered with @poshtoken. Sign up at https://hiveposh.com.
"Upvote on hive" is on the top of my list of "ways to support me" (the list is actually called "got coin?" on my not-hive blog). Unfortunately I'm not a famous artist XD
not sure it would matter even if I was, seeing as "everyone" "knows" crypto is a scam, though having said that both sets of parents have recently gotten interested enough that they're actually asking us how the crypto is going rather than knowing it's a scam so I guess things are moving?
Yeah it is a funny one - because for the average creator, crypto and Hive-like solutions are the answer to the life of a Struggling artist.
Donno about anyone else but it's definitely my speed :)
If people put the money they send to Patreon into a Hive account and vote with it then it would soon gain value and they would still have their money. The artist might get less per fan initially, but if they were posting daily then they could have a nice income. They could still do sales of music or merchandise to raise more money. I really think that if a few artists with thousands of fans joined up then it could snowball into something massive, but we need those ready to take a chance on it. I do hear some artists say there are still barriers in ease of use, but is it so hard really?
For sure - it is a lack of understanding and an abundance of conditioning that does it. This place is on the precipice of greatness - just needs the right push.
Sometimes I think to buy some HIVE token by with my cash at bank account. Considering higher curation rewards and Hive Power APR, it could be a reasonable investment.
It has been a reasonable investment for me over the years, but it isn't a fast return :)
This is a great way of looking at it.
Someone needs to build a competitor to Patreon as a Hive front-end, that takes advantage of the Hive reward pool instead of tipping from your own pocket.
Any devs reading this, there's an easily marketed, next big thing for you.
You're welcome.
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It has been mentioned a few times over the last 5 years ;D
Haha damn, I'm not the genius I thought I was...
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You maybe a genius, but there might be others out there!
Not me... I'm a dolt. :D
I'm not sure how that is different from upvotes and autovoters? Can you explain the difference please?
One could sell recurring payments without fees rather than patreon subs + upvotes as an icing on the cake.
you’re article says it all, most suffer from shortsightedness and the other half are allergic to the notion of effort... even if pleasure comes in fact with it !
really inspiring writing, thank you for sharing it :) I didn’t commented a lot under your daily posts, but every time I feel close of what you’re saying and the way you do it and at the same time, I learn new perspectives about the same subjects... have a great week ahead !
Isn't this the truth!
All comments I get are appreciated highly. I love writing, but what is the point if I am the only one reading? So, thank you!! :)
I understand that as a writer, when the text is finished, you still like it and the ideas put in words, but what starts to be really important and enjoyable is, of course the feedback of readers !
It is a creative life form, one we are building, and there are bound to be misunderstandings along the way.
I think the misunderstandings are part of the development or in art terms, misinterpretations of meaning. On Hive, there are so many perspectives an individual can take.
Yes, and ones perspective here develops over time, or mine has. Griping is a characteristic of certain humans, who will gripe no matter their fortune. I tend to avoid this type of person, they are too needy.
Neediness is a growing epidemic I think - it is in response to the "individualist" movement, when people realized that now they have isolated themselves, but still need others.
I do feel I am encountering more and more people who drain me with their neediness, not only on chain. Perhaps all the excessive money being thrown around has made many of us more dependent, increased our feelings of entitlement?
Social media has replaced human contact, irl, for many. Social media is becoming real life for them. I have relied on it in times of loneliness, yes, so that does have value. But boy do we need to get back out there and shake hands with strangers and give hugs freely. Without this direct connection with other living beings, our needs and neediness could become perverted. Hm...
I agree with everything you mention in this post. Personally, I think it is true that it is the lack of vision and patience that prevents most people from seeing and understanding everything that you mention in this post regarding the progress that we can obtain by being constant and active in Hive.
Regarding the artists, as you well say, supporting artists through Hive would be very easy if people realized that by investing just a little bit of fiat money in Hive, they could exponentially multiply what they invested over time.
But most people want it all and they want it fast. So there is a lot that most people have to understand to finally be aware of the real value of Hive as a platform, cryptocurrency and project. I'm hopeful that one day, most people will start to realize all of these things and at that point, I'm sure we'll see Hive going to the Moon and beyond.
Excellent article. Thanks for sharing it, and greetings.
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We live in a world fuelled by debt for a reason. Instant gratification isn't just spend what one has now, it is also do not invest for the future, which is likely the most expensive part of it.
I totally agree!! Greetings!
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I have never thought of my investment in Hive as not losing value, your post opened my mind to it!
And at some point, it will be well and truly up!
I hope :)
I believe the impact of hive is awesome because every area you which to engage on in the blockchain is beneficial in getting back a profitable reward whether upvoting or making comments, which adds up to your rewards no matter how little it may be but is definitely increasing to build one's account.
And if done well, increases the growth of other people's accounts too :)
Yeah which is absolutely awesome to help others grow as well.
i really love this place ;) no matter token down or high
:)
So long as the price of the token does not decline, the value is indeed retained.
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STOPI think Hive could be a good platform for artists were making a living is tough. In a way, I saw Raven start-up tokenizing herself and it's not that hard to support people. However, I guess the downside that some people might have is the long power-down time. Of course, the money is still yours.
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