A wise hive account once said: "Most of the content on steem hive is close to worthless, unless they manage to bring outside views to it." and this is sort of true still today, though I can't ignore the fact that if you at least bring inside views to it it's still way more valuable than the rest of content that gets rewarded.
Now I don't want to be a downer, but if you really think about it, it's true. Most other social media platforms wouldn't pay most of our content creators a dime creating content on their platforms. In fact only a small fraction of a percentage make a living off of these platforms and a majority of that comes from adrevenue so the platforms don't really lose anything out on that and in fact get a cut off of that revenue too. Hence compared to Hive it's sort of magical and in many ways unfathomable how a small portion of users averages out so much rewards over time with the ecosystem having paid out literal millions to its users even though it's still so small.
Now of course the main factors here are that it works in so many different ways. 1. It doesn't use adrevenue, I believe @leofinance is the only platform that utilizes ads and I remember closing my adblocker when browsing their front-end just to assist them with their token buyback from adrevenue, the other front-ends still don't utilize it and 2. it rewards content and curators with inflation which means every person who has bought and/or staked hive is losing out on their value as it is being redirected to other users and possibly themselves.
One could say that the biggest losers here are all the passive investors who buy Hive and keep them on exchanges as they lose out on inflation and other kind of rewards by having it staked but considering the volatility of crypto and Hive it's hard to feel bad for them as you don't need to be an amazing trader to buy low, hold and sell some of it high during all these movements.
The biggest winners on the other hand are those who come here with nothing, work their way into posting, commenting and receiving upvotes consistently and there's nothing wrong with that, it is after all the way the platform is designed. The gray area is when those content creators don't bring anything else of value to the platform and there's evidence that their content isn't even being consumed by accounts within the ecosystem thus the rewards they're earning is in one way "unfair".
I know some of you may have noticed that I've been downvoting some accounts I disagree with the rewards of, whether it being controversial content or the so called "censored" accounts on #web2 that often trend but never receive any engagement or any proof of them attempting to bring their followers to Hive to consume the content here, or in general posts I feel are a bit too high in rewards due to certain voters just blindly casting 100% votes with large stake that doesn't belong to them or other posts from accounts I have a suspicion aren't really deserving of the rewards they're getting for certain reasons that would be too long to explain here.
What it boils down to usually is there being "regular joe" accounts such as me for instance and a majority of accounts on hive and then "influencers" who have a larger following outside of Hive and get showered with stake here. Let me explain my thought process on how I judge rewards based split between these user cases.
The honeymoon period
New user who seems genuine and real, hooray! Let's give them a vote on their intro post, firstly so they get some stake to continue using Hive more easily without running into RC errors (though this will be an issue of the past shortly with the new Hardfork) but also so they can see how the platform works, how curators are motivated to look for them and welcome and guide them on the platform, etc. Over time, these regular users, who may not have a big following outside of Hive or bring manage to bring a lot of people onto the network, will have to bring something more to the table than just posting content and replying to a couple comments on their posts. I'm not even taking into consideration their curation but if they've never cast more than a couple votes it usually says a lot about them either way.
What I'd want to see is them getting involved in the community, start following other authors they're interested in, share the same interests, engage with them on their posts, subscribe to interesting communities and of course test out some of the many dapps we have here.
I mean if you really think about it, content in and of itself is not that valuable, if no one reads it from inside the ecosystem than the odd few curators trying to not leave the post at 0 rewards and if no one outside of Hive reads it either, then it may as well not exist. It's frankly ridiculous that a lot of content here earns the rewards it does without the author putting in the work to gather an audience which is the case in 99% of the rest of the internet where blogging is still a thing or being an influencer, etc. If no one's there to consume you, you're not going to get advertising offers, sponsorships, adrevenue, etc. So why is it so different here?
Well, stake has to go out here, that's just the way the reward pool works, and if at some point people feel too much stake is being sent out to authors compared of what they're worth then nowadays there are some other options to put your upvotes to different kind of uses. There it is important that it's not something that benefits you solely or directly though else that'll cross the border of abuse which is frowned upon. You can use an example of this such as @hbd.funder, stakeholders vote on those comments meaning a slightly bigger piece of the reward pool goes to @hbdstabilizer which in turn manages to keep HBD more stable and during depegs assists on getting it back to the peg quicker, often times helping the value of Hive if it depegs on the upside as it has recently. This is something that every stakeholder benefits from, not just the people voting up the comments. I do some times vote those comments up personally as well and a simple reason to that is that there are quite frankly not that many new authors joining daily nor being active and we don't want to overreward people for the sake of using up our daily voting mana just because. Rewards should remain realistic because before we know it the price of Hive could go up 10-100x which shouldn't mean that my shitposts should be earning thousands of $ daily just because I need to spend my voting mana every day.
Getting a bit off track here but if you keep in mind that one of the most important things of Hive is users, you'll understand the importance of bringing in traffic from the outside and getting new users to stay active and bring in new folks. Every social media platform needs users and growth, without that then there's no reason to have a reward pool if we're just going to be throwing it at each other. So if regular joe's aren't at least being socially active and "appreciating" the rewards they're getting by putting in time, effort and sweat equity, then naturally they're going to take the rewards they get on their posts for granted which in turn may mean lower quality over time, farmy/spammy forced content and of course easier decision to sell such stake because it didn't cost you much to earn it in the first place.
Now let's talk about influencers as that's something of a recent activity that's taken a lot of my attention lately.
Here the honeymoon period exists as well and may even last longer, it's understandable, a bigger influencer has joined our platform so we may shower them with rewards early on and for a while, but how long should that go on, though? There are quite a few factors to keep in mind here, how much stake is that influencer being rewarded, what is their activity like? Understandably not every big influencer will have time to socialize and use Hive daily like regular joe's so then how can they bring value to the platform?
This one's a lot easier for the influencers compared to regular users because as their name mentions, they can influence things. They can start posting about Hive, their post links here that do well on their other socials to attempt to get their followers to join. Because why wouldn't they? Many join cause they understand the immutability of text on the chain, they understand the free hosting of their content as long as they get themselves an account, they understand the ease of rewards and how direct it exists between stakeholders and content creators without any middlemen in the way and they should understand that once they grow some stake they can start curating their own section to reward their followers and fans with some rewards which as far as I know no other platform makes it as easy as Hive and cost-free.
So the question here is, why are they not doing so? There are some of these influencers that have been here for years, their reputation is as high as some of our most successful content creators and stakeholders yet their stake isn't, not just their stake as it's not that much of importance but alongside it their activity is lacking, their engagement, their viewcount on the platforms that do count it. Like honestly, what gives? Do they just not understand Hive or are the rewards just too little for them to bother? If so then why do they get upset when part of those rewards are downvoted? And why are their supporters that insistent on continuing to shower them with rewards when all signs point to it bringing close to no value back to our platform? Do they not care about the value of their stake or do they think it just won't matter in the long run. It's just quite baffling, especially when their reaction to a couple small downvotes comes with max retaliation on projects literally trying to grow the value of the stake they're using to retaliate with.
Either way, my point is that even influencers need to start bringing value to the platform in their own ways eventually and just like regular users they shouldn't take their rewards for granted because their name or presence alone isn't going to bring any value to the network if no one knows they are here and even worse, if most here don't care that they're here. It really isn't rocket science in my opinion.
I've seen a lot of regular users find innovative ways to bring value back to the platform and at least spend a lot of time building genuine connections that make reading their posts and comment section really entertaining. @tarazkp is for instance one of my favorite authors on the platform. I loved his writing early on and it's just kept getting better and by the looks of his posts I can tell that many others agree as well as they keep returning to them.
If he, on the other hand, was only to generate posts, only reply to comments on his own posts consistently, not curate, not engage with other posts, not use any dapps, start receiving less genuine engagement, etc, then yes at that point I'd also think that he could use some downvotes or less upvotes eventually, no matter how great of an author he is.
We really gotta be a bit more rational about what's going on here and where we're putting our stake. I feel like a lot of users just throw it around willy nilly and don't see it as not just trending posts but also investing in accounts for future use. Of course not all stake that goes out weekly needs to be all nitpicky about where it's going but stakeholders shouldn't be entitled that just because it's their stake they can do whatever they want with it and no one should be able to get in the way. That's just not how proof of work works, we all as a collective should be deciding on how much stake goes to where and when we see some outliers that go beyond the acceptable norm too much to then intervene. If not then we're not going to be much different from Steem or Blurt where content is a literal placeholder for ROI. It's pretty much proof of stake with an extra step of creating a shitpost daily to get that extra ROI and it shows on their trending if you dare look at it.
So as an ending note, try to bring "something more" to the ecosystem, don't take things for granted and you'll do fine. If we can't value content realistically and don't attempt to bring readers to it then we may as well just reduce the rewards that content receives because else what is the point of it? While I'm not suggesting anything as a Hive witness, keep in mind that we already did so once from 75/25 to 50/50 and while there were some people to initially complain about it I don't see any bad effects having been created by it, so who's to say lowering it more wouldn't be better? Or we could work on distributing it better, not showering a few accounts with too big of a percentage of post rewards and never keep tabs on them or try to adjust it down a bit because they should just do whatever.
Hello Acidyo
I'm new to Hive but I was given a very comprehensive crash course by @galenkp and I feel that the points you've made are exceptionally valid from what I understand of Hive. Galen has been drumming it into me that my posts need to be filled with my personal flair, consistent, engaging (or providing some form of value) and also a bit fun when it's appropriate. I'm hoping to be able to give back more than just content once I'm more established. I have also seen how important engagement is (Galen drummed that into me too), but there's still a lot I don't understand from the technical side of things.
This platform is a completely different animal to Facebook and I doubt that many people that are on there would venture here because there's such a big difference in posting styles.
Facebook = minimum effort, low quality, high quantity
Hive = maximum effort, high quality, lower quantity
You can clearly see which model is better.
That bloody Galen character did a lot of drumming things into you huh?
He's a nutbag.
Yes, he's a nutbag, but he's a very wise nutbag 😁
Wisely nutbaggish.
The lack of engagement part on me, is lack of time. I always reply to comment on my posts, and invariably upvote them. Half the time I am thinking... 'I get a lot of comments because they know they will get a comment upvote'.
I get more than my fair share of rewards, but try not to post very often. I have shitloads of content but am aware of this former fact. I get my rewards 'adjusted' sometimes. Whatever.
More people on HIVE? I cross-post my shit on Facebook, purposely almost a year later as my content tends to give away access points. Explorers on there are half vandals, so I have to be careful.
They won't/don't post on HIVE as it's still too complex. The 'Logon with Facebook' option still has not happened (correct me if I am wrong).
The ones I did drag over didn't last too long, one was attacked by @hivewatchers, albeit by ignorance and received a load of DV's. She left shortly after. Her content was Facebook style which goes down badly on HIVE.
So... yes I used to try and bait people to HIVE. My footer text still dangles a carrot, and I cross-post to Twitter. Doing more is something I 'used to do'.
This will hopefully be an option soon, there might be a proposal in the works to create an infrastructure for all front-ends to use. More info hopefully sooner! :)
Your content does generally well with both views and engagement so no complaints from me there, but say if you did end on material for such content at some point and wanted to be a bit more "shitposty", wouldn't you consider forfeiting part of your post rewards to the DHF knowing the amount of autovotes you've been getting and may get on that post as well? Or at least start out with no self-vote, etc? (don't know if you self-vote, just an example, I don't have anything against that neither unless it's overdone)
Oh and I hope we'll get poshtoken connected to facebook in the near future as well.
Besides that 'error' I made on the running post recently, I won't ever create any shitposts. I make a point of creating something entertaining, or educational. If what's in my mind does not fit either of those criteria, it gets posted by @chops.support which receives no self-votes and gains less than $5 in rewards (usually).
I don't self-vote and can't remember the last time I did. Maybe 2 years ago?
I would support that proposal. Make it easy and they will use it. This is the essential key. The Facebook crowd don't like to make additional effort. They want a 'share and do all the hard work for me' button.
If they get little rewards, that little is more than the zero they get on Facebook.
'Connect via Facebook' is a big deal, and must be tough to integrate. It's been talked about for literally years but has not come to fruition.
I can create accounts, it costs me nothing. If this is implemented, I will step up my efforts.. you can count on me.
I wrote about the idea in a recent post of mine if you wanna check out some of the details called "how to prevent account creation abuse" and at the same time offer users instant access through temp accounts they can use hive and become active and earning until they earn their way to a real account or decide to buy one while then having their pending earnings transferred to it. Giving them another token has also come to mind sort of for their previous social activity. More in the works soon and hopefully it gets funded as it should benefit all frontends being opensource and of course all stakeholders.
This one? I for one would love @anidiotexplores to be able to post his stuff on HIVE.
He knows what I make, yet is not in the least interested in using HIVE. He's a typical Facebook user.., post your stuff and wait for the likes. He does respond to comments (on FB) and would be in the mindset of 'withdraw any earnings now'. His content is not exactly premium and would likely gain little.
The latter point is what we have to contend with. It is a 'magic money' but most will think this way without contributing anything. That would make it a 'scam'.
Your idea could work in the short-term. I will ask him what he thinks. We can't judge.., it needs to be the opinion of outsiders.
Not everyone needs to be an author, I'm sure we have plenty of those on Hive who force themselves to become authors cause of the rewards but I think it's improving over time, if stakeholders focused a bit more on being a bit more generous with their upvote mana on comments I think regular users could definitely make more here socializing and having fun than they would anywhere else. Maybe facebook isn't a great comparison there but the amount of time and effort people put on reddit comments just to be helpful or interesting or for some attention strangers on the internet may give them in the form of valueless internet points it really makes me curious to find out how this platform with that activity and range of people would evolve over time.
Imagine you open up a post and there's thousands of upvotes on the top comment with hundreds of $ in rewards and tens if not hundreds of replies and discussions, and hopefully also a fraction of downvotes that'd be normalized by then.
I was regularly rewarding quality comments in such a way when my vote was over 5 cents and will again. I just don't want to risk it being dust 😂
Most can't get above the dust level, unless we are in a bull market. If @lpff or @anidiotexplores commented on my crap then I would upvote their comment, probably at a greater weight than normal. It's not a bad idea, but as you say.., many other's ignore comment voting or can't justify it.
There are not enough Orca's.
Uhm yeah! now that would be a very interesting thing to analyze and definitely figure out why the hell it's not happening more often like it's supposed to be.
Why not have all of their earnings as the layer 2 token until they are official Bees? Then they can use that token to claim their account? Otherwise we might have a significant amount of Hive locked up in abandoned accounts should things really pick up?
awesome, this is great news and will be awesome 💃💃
You did well with @grindle!! Though I remember during his initial days, something along the lines of a grumpy old git who won't write more than a few words. If an old git can flourish like a flower on Hive, he would be the perfect example 😁 💐
Yes, he's an exception and I had to drag him back on the rails a few times. He's settled now, loves it and has done well on HIVE.
Now he just needs to do the same with another friend and then so on and so forth. :D
We did talk about it once, his target was one of those '..Oh no, you can't make money from Urbex..' old-style guys. They tend to live on https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/ and similar places. It's a strange community, divided.
Leo Finance already has a "Log in with FB & Twitter" amigo!
What we need now is, 'Login with Facebook' and then 'Share Last Post' for non-finance content. I am doing a write-up about it now, and have asked a couple of FB people if they would use it.
The good thing is, users can join through Leo and then use all the hive dapps, it's not like they have to stick to only Leo. In the end, Leo is providing that service that could and should be used by all dapps, regardless of how they feel about Leo. Looking forward to the write up!
There is one thing missing that could make all the idle Facebook users give this a crack. Will explain in my post.
This is one major ish. People out there are used to web2.0 style and the transition may not come easy.
Since I know how hard it is, I try not to bring anybody to hive without proper orientation.
Me to, I used to be all HIVE.., but gave up long ago.
Smiles... it is quite disappointing when the strength you used to bring someone in and teaching them doesn't show forth. I understand why people give up at a point.
d.buzz is doing alright. They post twitter-esque content into a community and limit post payouts. That seems to be enough to keep the downvoters away. TBH I'm totally fine with a buzz only attracting a few cents and I have a separate account for my short-content for that reason.
Don't even think about doubting it bro! :D
Those are the ones I wouldn't upvote😂
I used to spend most of my time on (Steem, then Hive) curating. I had a pretty big delegation from a now former user that was aimed specifically at encouraging and supporting film/tv related posts given it was so niche and, back then, very under rewarded given most of the focus and users was still around finance/crypto. I basically treated it like full-time and constantly tried to find unique content to support, even outside of that niche. I realised pretty early on that the stake I held had zero value if there was no community. I've spent a lot of time since that user left somewhat fucking myself over by selling off more and more of my own stake, only to realise how much more productice and fundamental I felt in the community of Hive.
Recently I've taken to stopping power downs entirely, and enabling 100% Hive Power rewards on my posts. Focusing on building up my stake again and to start continuing what I did before. That period was definitely the best part of this community for me; I focused on others, supporting engagement and people's posts, understanding the importance of community here and essentially being the member I wanted to see in others.
I think on Hive, as you said, a lot of the content genuinely does not have true value. But there's also an aspect of that of which we fail to recognise sometimes: value to one person is different to another. There's definitely overvalued posts and low effort which make it to the top still; but I've noticed that there's also posts that the community somewhat rejects due to it perhaps being so niche. We've all definitely improved on that over the years, especially with trails which go searching for that content to reward it. In the past it definitely would've been ignored and the result would be members losing their interest very quickly. I've seen it still happening with people I've onboarded.
There's also the issue of time on here where curation and commenting and reading posts can really eat away at free time. I can see how for even people to do earn a lot it might be difficult to maintain when they still have families, jobs, and other responsibilities to attend to. I think there's a bit of correlation in this between those who live in more western countries and those more eastern. For example, in the UK there's not a lot of us that are all that active, and that's because the Hive rewards (in USD) don't really stretch far at all when converted and transferred into GBP. But in a place where USD is significantly stronger, all that effort and time goes very far in changing lives. Powering down to really pull some profit out of Hive also isn't necessary.
This is actually how I'm seeing my own stake again: an investment not just into myself, but Hive. The posts I make that end up 50% or 100% HP are going towards improving the way we interact here, and how that stake may support certain types of interactions and content. Going beyond just saying "Yeah cool post." and instead seeing the value in the person behind the account as they interact with others. I think a good way to display that appreciation is also via delegations; something I managed to learn from that former user. Handing stake to another person for the purpose of allowing them to interact and improve their niche's communication through the encouragement of connection.
I've always been in favour of this move. I wrote about it a long time ago actually. How it doesn't just encourage smaller users to build stake, but forces them to do so by sending half of their rewards into a token that takes weeks to turn liquid. By posting, interacting, and curating, people are pretty much forced into becoming more productive members of the community. The more you save and build, the better that'll be as well. I'm seeing users on here that have pretty decent account sizes purely from posting now, and they're earning hundreds of dollars per month in curation alone. That should be a big incentive to many to keep building actual value here between users.
In terms of promoting more engagement in the Movies & TV Shows community, we're actually going to start running a weekly highlight on comments, and sharing the rewards with them. We have a channel in the Discord as well where people can share comments they've received that they feel deserve more curation, and if we agree we'll support it.
As for my own account: I know I could be doing more, and I've already started to improve things.
By the way I realise this is one big messy reply full of ramblings. :^)
All good but as you say there's not always a lot of free time so it took me a whole to read it and won't be able to counter with a long reply neither. I agree with a lot of what you say and I've personally also been fighting with real life, debt, etc to remain powered up and continue to grow for the community. I know how I am, how I've handled things ever since I got here and how I will continue in the future. I won't be one of those people to eventually "break bad", start spamming posts or comments and giving everyone 1-2% votes once the delegations are gone or I've gotten to a certain amount of stake I feel comfortable with. I see this happening often unfortunately, either people take the stake and leave or leave after someone steps in and tells them they can't continue to act thay way. Even worse are some that just constantly take and take and even if hive was their first intro to crypto and made it possible for them to trade it into others that may or may not have changed their lives we still end up never seeing them again on chain or showing gratitude for what it did for them or even keeping or buying back a little stake just as appreciation for the network. There's all kinds of people and as many said back in the day it was mostly the wrong kind that joined first and stayed, not just on this chain but in crypto in general. to this day we're still in the shitty people phase, mostly just meme coins, defi clones, rugpulls, scams, etc all only here to make it for themselves while taking from another.
I do have hope that Hive not only will be different but already is a lot and I see examples of this every day and I'm very proud of some stakeholders who not only have I supported and invested in myself but have also chosen to stay, evolve and improve themselves and the ecosystem. it'll be a very bright future ahead of us, the chain and software can quite literally not be stopped so it's going to be interesting seeing more and more good come out of it.
omfg comment ended up being quite long and not so relevant to yours either, can you believe I wrote this on my phone?
You gave me my "honeymoon" period when I first started here. I was, of course, someone with no following looking to restart my life of babbling about video games after stepping away from (and burning) professional bridges in that industry.
Five (or is it six) years later, I'm still here, worryingly only up to the letter "F" in my Steam library, attempting to document a man's journey to try and play every PC game he owns alphabetically.
I don't think I possessed the eyes or hands of any one individual to come along to the Steem (as it were) or Hive blockchain (as it is) to write, or create content, but the amount of human connection, and the absolute permanency of everything etched into this digital ledger is what keeps me constantly coming back to its front door.
To see people, and their creations.
It is is better when those creations aren't about the platform itself, but are real, hard hitting stories, and boy have I read a lot of really interesting personal accounts and anecdotes on this blockchain. I hope to read many more of these human stories in the years to come.
Yeah, I remember you being a friend of the other aussie's on the platform (I think) and aside from your gaming content you did some great photography. Similar to you and taraz for instance I invested my voting power in you in the hopes that A. You'll stick around and B. You'll use it to curate for further distribution and not just spend it on yourself or just on a few buddies like some do.
One of the advantages of doing manual curation is that you can keep tabs on the accounts you're supporting on your feed, if they start doing well on their own you can lay off your votes for a while, etc. The disadvantage is of course also that the authors may feel like you don't like their content anymore or that you've forgotten about them which the latter often is the case due to timezone or other things you may not see them in your feed for a period of time.
But yeah, glad my voting power didn't go to waste in your case, cause through the years for many, it unfortunately has and now they're just gone with the stake which most likely just landed in another whale's pockets on or off-chain and won't do distribution any favors.
In my case I found it all getting reinvested in my craft. I did cash out some stuff, got new cameras, but always make sure new work gets posted here as well. In all honesty, most of my stake went into Splinterlands. Vices. :D
I think trying to attract influencers from outside this ecosystem and bribing them to stay here was mostly a waste of time when we were on the old chain and it will be that on Hive.
When someone who has a following on another platform comes here and does not engage having them cross post their YouTube videos here to dip into the reward pool is wasting it. Text-wise their posts will contain only links to content on other platforms. The worst thing is if they never even mention Hive on other platforms.
Indeed, the value of Hive activity is largely in the interaction and relationship building.
Hive hasn't had an explosive start like some VC-funded platform that has had shitloads of money and marketing effort poured into it.
It doesn't need to. Organic growth is different. This ecosystem is being built patiently from the ground up. We are already light years ahead of many other platforms. Each passing year Hive exists will increase the probability that it will continue to exist for a long time.
The sudden explosive growth of Splinterlands was an example of what can be expected to happen many more times in the future as the tentacles of the Hive ecosystem grow and increase their reach. Bit by bit development is taking place and adding hooks that entities and individuals can attach themselves to. There is no centralized entity directing the growth of Hive. What's taking place is hard to stay on top of because so many are working independently towards their goals.
We (a couple other old timers) were talking about this the other day too. We could start posting crap and getting those autos for some time, but pretty soon, the reputations we have built over the space of half a decade or more, would be gone. Reputation matters (not the number), because it is an understanding of trust between me as a content creator and my audience. Broken trust is very, very hard to rebuild.
So many of those posts in trending often with no real engagement from an audience or from the author. Crappy ubiquitous comments to fake interest on some of them - the same large voters all of the time, voting blindly, unreading... I wish it wasn't like that.
If I acted like a spammy, maximizing ass, I suspect I would quickly be treated as one.
I am glad that @galenkp does the engagement posts, as through there I am able to spread some of my own stake to authors who are often quite new and building, and quite diverse in content and region.
At the end of the day though, it still has a long way to go, but is much better than it was. I like that people who care about the ecosystem are building their stake, but it shouldn't be "build stake at all costs" and distribution is needed too. But, distribution at the expense of not supporting those who are here long-term is also going to lead down a bad path, so finding a balance is important on all fronts.
Reminds what happened to a famous guy on hive/steem a long time ago, the founder of a famous game here on hive. 😀
During a market hype he got really into chart analysis and started posting simple charts several times a day. Those auto votes stopped pretty fast and it took some time to build up the trust again.
Yes it did.
It has happened on a number of occasions, often around people doing chart analysis! ;D
Based on the charts, things are looking up!
Yeah I have nothing against "old-timers" being rewarded for their longevity and knowing they'll be around to help spread out more stake. That's part of what I was talking about above in "investing" in accounts, I wonder if at some point when we grow big enough someone will bother to check out a "voting tree" sort of like, if @tarazkp voted account @galenkp for 2000$ over the first few years, then @galenkp voted account @xxx for $1000 over the next few years it basically means @tarazkp was partially to thank for that @xxx grew to the account he has today and the distribution he's doing with his stake to all the newcomers now since even a dolphin level account is giving out thousands of $ weekly. Would be interesting to see who has had a major impact on distribution and the levels distributed to long term. That's why it hurts when some people you've invested in quite a lot just up and leave, though I understand everyone has a real life and things happen now and then and not everyone can afford to stay powered up even if they really, really wanted to but it is what it is.
Constantly voting up people who show no signs of not just remaining here for the long term with some stake to use for distribution but also barely bother putting in any effort for the stake they ear is close to insanity; doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Unless of course they just couldn't care less.
That voting tree would be interesting for sure. I think that while some percentage stays spreading round close contacts, the majority ends up spreading further. I remember how some people who were in
SFHF in Poland were little fish, looking at my "massive" 20K stake as if it was a lot. Some of those people are orcas here now, still engaging, still spreading out further. @slobberchops was one of them :)And I think through these kinds of experiences, larger voters have largely become more selective with who they vote for, as they have been hurt often in the past. Look at the KC and jrcornel types - there are many. millions of dollars worth of Hive on what are effectively scammers. Then there are the social climbers, who got voted in the hope they would become a gluing force, but nearly all ended up creating dramas - the stellas and justines etc.
It is an interesting problem though, because while it is important to support newbies, long term, they have to become oldies. It is an investment with a very bad hit rate and low return so far, which makes me think that before the support really comes, they have to indicate their intentions with more than words. Staking and buying stake is an okay indicator, the quality of a single post or even a month of good posts isn't.
I remember the first time I came across you, the post was something like 'middle-class' and it opened my eyes. Then at Krakow, you were some kind of godly being.., and I spoke to you for around 2 mins before you vanished somewhere with @crimsonclad heh...
@hashcash muscled me into doing a video interview at Krakow, thankfully it never hit the chain.
Yeah, we were talking at the convention center place!
And now, like my wife, you know better.
Hashcash seems to have unfortunately disappeared. Pity. A group of us did a stream drunk from our AirBNB on the first night :D
Fortunate for me he's vanished. I don't quite know how he convinced me to do that.
OCD is definitely looking more and more into sweat equity of people we curate and at the same time also checking if they're wasting time and weakening hive's SEO by bothering to crosspost to "competitors" like steem and blurt for cents before we curate their content. It may not be much but I think long term it will definitely have an effect on those who understand the value in decentralization, distribution and of course why good downvotes are important.
This must take ages for individual cases.
I think it will make an impact down the road, especially for those users who build up from it.
Discord has actually remained really great at organising and creating bot help to make curation as efficient as possible. Now if only some people spent more time socialising on chain than there, we'd grow in social txs by a ton!
An interesting thought, the voting tree-concept; sort of like a family tree scenario. It would be cool to see that I think. Selfishly, now I want to see mine!
For sure, I've been disappointed a few times, will again I guess.
I see this happen a lot...Maybe people forgetting they have autos set (or not caring) sometimes, and other times wilful support of those accounts as part of a farm circle-jerk. It's destructive. It's the same with those that post 20 times a day and vote their own posts...It's destructive, sets a bad example and the wheel turns; the bad behaviour self-perpetuates.
It can be no other reason Acid. In my opinion anyway.
You two old-timers. I have a couple spare walking frames for you both if you like. 😂
Having you voting on entrants in my #weekend-engagement concept and general posts in my communities probably goes largely unnoticed by those receiving the votes, but it's good that you do it; like you say, it's another way to spread things around. That's one of the reasons I still do the concept actually, to see the new up and comers and what they can produce and to vote some I might not usually see. It also helps me guide them to better posting and it's enjoyable to see how a few of them have upped their game over many weeks.
Now, that offer of walking frames for you and @acidyo is available. Old timers need to look after each other after all.
You help a TON of new people with your #weekend-engagement project. I have sent quite a few noobies there because it is a friendly place to learn. Plus you give honest constructive feedback too.
Thanks snook, I just do what I can and for some it's enough I suppose. I appreciate the kind words.
That is all we can ever do.
For me it's about a few things. The quality of the content they are posting, are they replying to comments on their posts and what are they doing with the rewards they earn? The big one is what are they doing with the rewards they earn. If they are simply cashing out everything that to me is a clear sign that they don't care about hive and just look at it as a ATM machine which in my opinion is a huge negative for hive.
This is a hot one for me. I don't use auto voters but I do use some delegations to earn rewards in other areas with my hive. For the most part though I keep ALL of my hive power it up and keep it to curate content which I do manually every day. It legit takes HOURS and I spend a good 3 hours a day on hive on a bad day and often times a full working day of 8 hours just commenting, curating, writing content that gets spread across socials to bring traffic and rank in search engines. The amount of time involved is huge but I love it and I believe in it. However auto votes to me are lazy and often abused. I honestly wish everyone was forced to manually curate.
What floors me is more don't use ad revs to support their tokens especially if hive is suppose to be a web3 alternative. I get it people don't like ads and they find them intrusive etc. But there are legitimate good ways of limiting that tracking and earning profits which can be used for development of new applications which brings more value to hive and also fuels the value of the token. ALL Web2 applications run ads and it's their primary bread and butter in terms of revenues generated. It's what gives them value in their stock price, pays their employees etc. There is no reason web3 shouldn't be the same thing from these VERY successful examples but instead of all those funds going to the business only a small fraction does 5% or so and everything goes back to the people using the platform. (Of course things like spam, abuse and just nasty stuff needs to be dealt with.)
I love hive, I believe in it but there are some things I don't agree with in terms of the business part of me. It feels wasteful, lack of development and passing the buck. What gives me hope is I've seen some small changes in the right direction in the last year and I hope to continue to see that rolling forward.
Those are important thoughts here Acidyo, thanks you for bringing them to the table, even more in that nice writing style :) This indeed something more and more users, people here need to have in mind and care about...
I think for some the quality they or others are bringing here are rather subjective, but in a way, there’s still an objective perspective and perception about what content really brings value
I’m currently working on a project that’s going in that direction, still many steps before it’s good to be “revealable”
I answer and vote any valuable comments and I try to engage more every day, Hive have - and still is - my learning experience about engaging with others “virtually” (or at distance) as I didn’t spent a lot of time on other social medias... Still a lot to learn and progress to make, and in a way, it’s really what’s fueling me...
Saying that make me understand that here specially and all the things we really want to make evolve need dedication, and in my opinion, we’re also facing different trends about this special thing... I’m personally encountering two types of people, those that nothing stops and some who get quickly discouraged...
Again, thanks you for this very important reflection :)
Your content has been quite amazing so far, hope you don't get discouraged if not all of the posts can get the rewards they (imo) deserve but like other platforms you gotta invest a bit to get to the more consistent rewards so I hope you won't decrease your quality on the way there and keep doing you. Oh and of course not decrease quality/effort once those consistent rewards do start to happen. :p
Thanks you :)
I appreciate your appreciation ^^ !
I’ve already made the shit posting beginner thing in my previous time here, two years ago before my break to write my books (non edited yet, but maybe soon ?) and for sure, I’ll not take the same tracks !!
I want to keep it clear, as entertaining and interesting / useful as possible ;-)
I think Hive - the all ecosystem, users and capacities - definitely not deserves to be considered as a cash cow. This view is worthless and unproductive and even if my articles are not always rewarded (in a ratio time/work) I’m still super happy to have them available here !
I wish you’re doing well 🤞🏼
Really great info shared here for one to think about.
I have always considered myself an in-house contributor because I felt that’s where my strength lies. The only other platform I’ve ever been on was FB. The only reason I got a Twitter account was due to the many contests that was put on here that required you to share your post there. I’m like cool, I’ll grab one to be qualified. I really don’t have a following there because I’m not technically active there and most of my followers are from Hive anyway.
Due to some agreements I have set with my husband about not being too active on other platforms (because he forgets what I look like from being on Hive so much 😜) I really only give of my time and effort here. Meaning, I don’t always have that liberty or time to share my posts elsewhere. BUT that doesn’t stop me from contributing what I can through keeping my post of quality and engaging through comments, educating newbies on Hive etiquette, supporting other posts and leaving encouraging comments that helps with retention, onboarding family and friends I think would do well here in the long run, staying active in communities and helping with their curation efforts.
My point is that even for those like me who may feel their weak point is bringing people in from the outside they can work more on building up the community and platform from within by not only the content they publish but the ability to help influence more users to upgrade their quality and interaction levels. We never know the fullness of someone’s story/background and what could be preventing them from going an extra mile but what we can do is teach them about other ways and options of contributing more of their time and efforts if they’re going to be here.
This is what I’ve followed and set out to do for myself for the last few years. It’s funny because even the posts that end up having lower rewards still makes me happy because of the comment section. If I’m producing content that’s bringing interests and encouraging discussions and interaction then I feel my mission was accomplished. While one may just sit and wait for their post rewards to rise they may not realize how important the interaction factor is as well. There’s a lot of moving parts when it comes to value and contributing and not just one factor.
Honestly only reason I shot up my old twitter again was just because I knew cryptotwitter was big and during the FB censoring crypto posts was the only web2 safe space at the time where one could be heard about our platform. Once Hive becomes bigger I won't hesitate to desert my twitter account.
Exactly, there's always something "more" you can do on Hive if your strong suite isn't being an influencer or inviting a lot of people over. The latter is really hard actually as a regular joe because why would they listen to you about you altruistically wanting to help them do more with their free social time and looking at hive it mostly looks way too good to be true and comes off as an MLM scheme if you approach them with an invite.
Yep! That's exactly why I spend my time doing in-house work instead :D
This is a very valid reflection. My experience as a new user (just over a year on HIVE) has allowed me to understand and learn a few things. Since I started my content sharing business, I have always tried to bring quality content, which could interest and entertain users. Obviously I find it very fulfilling when my content creates interactions. I am promoting HIVE on some social networks, but also in real life, I hope over time to bring more users. We can all grow together.
Every time I read your posts I learn something new and I can't stop agreeing with your ideas. Your information is very useful. It is very difficult to add value to this platform just by writing posts. It would be great to bring someone to read these posts. I've invited a few people here, but it's important to follow them and make sure they don't do anything wrong. I hope everyone will do their best for the future of the platform. If my posts get too many votes, you can be sure that I will ask for your help to balance them. This might be nice once or twice, but if it happens all the time, it's not something I want. What I want are comments and votes from real people. People I can get to know and be friends with. Thanks for the great post!
Some nice points indeed Acid. Well written too.
I have held to the belief that it is best to like what one does here; my passion and personality ethos that I've spoken so much about in posts and comments. Add some effort and a person is on the way. That's my thought anyway. Having fun is important also, and that can be easier to find if the content creator does what he/she does for the enjoyment of it before anything else.
Just a few things I've held to for the slightly over five years I've been around.
Yeah effort and passion is important as well and posting about things you have experience of or are interested in. A few days ago I saw someone posting from their phone which is unusual from him as his content is of great quality in general but along with the low effort post and selfvote it really just gives out that the intention there is to just not miss out on your daily rewards which looks as a form of farming. It's not the end of the world if you miss a post now and then, and while I doubt his intention was to farm it still comes off as that to me as a curator. I'm sure you and many others know who I'm talking about as it stirred some drama. Intention is often taken into consideration for curators and lately also general activity on chain if you're a user who doesn't really bring much else to Hive than the content within. It just feels a bit unnecessary to me when some authors knowingly post lower effort without forfeiting part of their rewards to the many projects we have on Hive that could use it but not directly benefitting them and being aware of the amount of votes they usually get that are on auto.
If we start thinking more in terms of a collective where we try to support one another not just with votes but by other means as well I think we're going to go a lot further, so far that no one's going to think back later on and be all "ugh why didn't I post twice per day that one period" as money won't be an issue any longer. But of course there's also those who can never get enough so what do I know.
I wonder if people think it isn't noticed? I also wonder what their care-factor is in respect of their own post-feed when they're happy to post rubbish just to gain that set of autos for the day.
Indeed.
I wrote a post on entitlement a couple days ago, to address one chap in particular and send a message to others...The feeling of entitlement is at the core of behaviour as you mention above.
Correct, I couldn't agree more. There's many concepts out there trying to do so and I don't believe users have any recourse to say there's not enough options, but the more the merrier, provided they're there for the right reasons.
As I said earlier, this was a well-written post and it would do everyone good to read it.
Damn! I hate it when I missed out on the drama 🤣
Curangel as usual rustling some feathers cause their downvotes don't have a slider. 🤣
Thanks, started writing this a few days ago but finished it now so might be a bit here and there. :p
Just edited my comment...Had more to say. Lol.
You always have more to say. :D
Indeed, there is no doubt.
Will vote this one a bit more then for the edit. :p
Too kind sir, I'll pay it forward with some votes of my own on some of the comments in this post.
I often feel a bit self conscious replying to posts like this one of yours, I'm a bit clueless with the blockchain and all...so I tend to be very brief. I found the courage though. 🤔😉
Could the argument not be put forward that reducing the curation payout would make curators with large stakes think more carefully about where they applied their votes?
The other thing that came to mind was why is so much Hive being held on exchanges? Surely regular returns from curation within Hive is better than just hoping for trading returns? I know the exchanges need liquidity but if traders knew the returns they could get from being active on the platform it would encourage them to use stake for curation, they would make more than by speculating.
There needs to be a fundamental shift in the whole economic structure of Hive but with top stakeholders, who are often Devs and witnesses, nothing will be done at blockchain level that would upset their earnings.
Autovoters make lazy content creators (in general). Bring back moderated vote buying and allow people to invest in their own content and let the community then decide what's over rewarded and act accordingly. This would also make the big stake holding curators look more carefully to maximise their returns.
As for the quality of content. It's poor but that's not the problem as it's the people on Hive that are it's greatest asset.
As for the Leo curators, absolute joke. They appear to just randomly drop big upvotes on whatever is posted on their platform hence the 'throw enough shit and hope some of it will stick' attitude of the majority of its users who trawl crypto news sites daily and just spin what they see. Not to mention the dozens of 'magic of compound interest' and 'why passive income matters' posts we see there daily...don't get me started on the highly rewarded shilling posts.
Excellent writing fella. I'm glad people get something to think about from posts like these and keep doing your thing . Pity we can't clone you!
I think there are significant amount of Hive on exchanges because investors who are day traders by nature, not a blanket statement on all investors being day traders, find more value in holding their Hive in exchanges so they can play with them along with their other tokens.
Internal market means they will be able to play but that does not have other tokens they can trade easily. I think in this regard if there was a way to allow for hive to incorporate having other tokens, not hive-engine tokens, but other blockchain tokens to be held and traded alongside internally held Hive. Could shift the holdings out of exchanges? Maybe. I am just brain storming so I could honestly be shooting blanks, like a tide up tube.
I can't agree more with most of what is written here, but you already knew this, I guess I just had to engage to show proof of read.
One of my pet peeves with Hive is that it's often "counter productive" (in terms of rewards) for authors to create content focused on the "outside community" than to create content focused on the "inside community".
Let me explain.
Authors are rewarded according to the stake of the people who vote on the posts. Thus, authors are incentivized to create content that's interesting/attractive/ to people that's ALREADY heavily invested on Hive, as they're the ones with high HP.
For example, the huge majority of post titles here on the blockchain are written assuming that the reader is already part of Hive and knows about Hive stuff. Personal example: a few days ago I've posted a "PizzaGuild HashKings Report"; if you're not from Hive, you have no idea what a "Pizza Guild" is, neither about the HashKings game. I wouldn't click on this post if I wasn't a Hiver. But, being bluntly honest, I wasn't writing to non-Hivers, I was writing to Hivers, that already know about the PizzaGuild Project and the HashKings game.
I just opened my Trending pages and saw several other examples: "Hive Open Mic Week 124", "Mi entrada a MONOMAD", "Favorite H-E Tokens", "Splinterlands Assets and a new Wind Maker"... all those titles just make sense if you're already part of the Hive community and know about the community (like Monomad and HiveOpenMic challenges) or the terminology of Hive (like H-E Tokens, WindMaker is a category of users on the LIOTES Project, etc.). Otherwise, they're just gibberish.
Lots of other posts have "generalist" titles that doesn't mean much without a context (like following that author beforehand and being interested in his content) and are terms that no one would ever search on Google: "My girlfriend got a new haircut", "Tattoo journeys", "Monday morning Quarterbacking"...
Finally, we have a minority of the content that's actually interesting for outsiders and that can actually bring people from the outside world; content that's searchable on Google; content that people would click on Reddit: "Learning to cook curry chicken", "Making a Dress to Give as a Present", "Editing Checklist For Writers". Those are easily understandable by anyone and, if you're interested in that kind of content (cooking, DIY, writing), you'll click and consume the content. This is the kind of content that'll bring outside views to Hive.
But, the point is: bringing outside views is good to the network itself, but useless to the author. Those outside users don't have a Hive account, and even if they create an account just to like your content, the vote will be worth literally zero.
In my Splinterlands videos I've been posting on 3Speak, I've been trying to always use titles to people that's just looking on the internet about Splinterlands or NFT Games in general, exactly to try to bring people to Hive. For example, instead of writing "Analysis of to the Weekly Challenge" (a title that doesn't mean anything if you're not already a Hiver), I'm writing "Good combos for new players using ". It's way more palatable, and could actualy bring people from Google or Reddit.
I think it is good at first to follow the crowd and find a niche here. Also I respect the people who are community oriented a lot. I used to do it a bit more, but got overwhelmed.
Personally, I try my best to produce platform independent content and keep the Hive community stuff to a minimum or at least add unrelated photos.
I disagree that outside views are useless for the author. I take the longterm approach, and find people (read curators) recognize and look for this type of content.
Usually I share my posts on Twitter (except niche Hive or controversial stuff). You never know who will notice.
Oh, I fully agree with you: outside views are NOT useless for the author. But it feels like useless in the first moment, and the more reward "outside hive content" receives, the better.
I do think that the reward distribution on Hive could be better as it is not always related to post quality. Well it probably never will be 100%, but it could improve. People who are well known on Hive or outside it may get more support to encourage them to stick around, but I think they should be using their influence in bring in more users. The rate of growth is pretty low.
There is too much automatic voting and not enough real engagement. I saw a post this week that had the most votes for the day, but no human comments until I added one. I think the guy is bemused by that. He is not a big commenter, but if he doesn't get many responses that may have an effect. I don't think he comments much on posts by others, but then he will say he is busy producing his art. Anyone who is actually marketing serious content has to work hard on that. He does at link to Hive on his own site.
We cannot be complacent. Hive is great technology, but it could remain an also-ran unless it gets better exposure to the world in general. I still hold out hope that some big 'influencer' or other prominent person will take to it and bring in their fans. When they do then they should get some support, but if they do enough then their actual fans will make it worth their while. I do think there is great potential in people with a smaller following who may not make much on other platforms, but could build something on Hive from loyal fans.
This is a great eye-opener post @acidyo. The effort, the value , the originality and how useful the content is and the engagement really does matter. In my opinion, Shitpost that doesnt make sense is a complete shit.
This is an awesome read. Thank you!!!
There's nothing wrong with shitposting neither, being active and consistent is important for your followers. I can tell you I've lost a lot of engagement just because I haven't had time to post more frequently the past couple of years as my projects are taking most of my time right now.
But when I do want to shitpost just to catch up with some accounts or engage with them a little or heck even find some new users to follow and curate, I make sure I don't accept part or all of the rewards on the post knowing the amount of autovoters I have. Most other authors who do well don't I've noticed which annoys me a bit, like, you're already doing really well, why are you pushing it?
This is a very well written comprehensive insight on the "value of content" topic here on Hive. I hope more users take the time to read your thoughts @acidyo.
This was something I comprehended from the start and in the real world I physically show people my blog while they are sitting on their phone doing that scroll thing that people do for hours just liking short little videos and quotes. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, but we can spend those hours with likes that add value to the content we like and support communities. I try to deliver it in very simple terms to people, and they seem to understand just fine but for whatever reason don't want to take the time to even check it out, while I'm like "but I got these things called account tickets and can give you an instant account in minutes." Nope, they need to continue scrolling that fb feed for some reason...
I agree with this, and I'm not sure if the average user sees this or even cares, but it's a good insight for curators who have heavier influence over the share pool.
If a blogger has a talent that others find to be valuable content, there's usually communities dedicated to the content, and it offers the community of that content very little if the blogger doesn't respond to comments. Comments oftentimes are filled with questions from people genuinely interested in learning. It's also important in my mind to check out the accounts of the person commenting and decide what they are doing on Hive from a personal perspective. A perceptive individual with some experience on Hive will know in about 30 seconds what kind of blogger they are dealing with. I bet every talented blogger on Hive has at least 1 or 2 accounts commenting just for the upvote they know they are going to get for their comment, but that's another topic that's somewhat entwined into this one.
There's so many ways a blogger can even increase their influence to a community they love. I love the @canna-curate community, so part of my strategy for increasing my support to the community is through leasing HP, then I can reward comments without sacrificing my post support, and can even give a nice upvote for a very well thought out comment that I know took the person at least an hour to compose. That's what makes all the difference from places that offer no value to their users.
On Hive it's the users who run the show, not the show that runs the users.
Thanks for your hard work and dedication to Hive @acidyo.
You're quite right @acidyo: most content on Hive would not get paid anything on more "conventional" sites that pay contributors for content. And there have been many, going back all the way to 1998-ish. I've been part of many of them; only one still pays royalties... and they are a pittance.
In traditional Web 2.0, content only has minimal value... if you're lucky and writing in a popular/hot niche, maybe $8-10 per 1,000 page views. In most cases, a tiny fraction of that.
But what exactly is "value?" Moreover, what is value in a community context, not just in an individual context? What is value, in a Web 3.0 context?
I suppose everyone would have their own interpretation... from where I'm sitting, I'd say "value" is something that would make a random outsider who does a search that somehow lands them on an article/post on HIVE look around and think to themselves "This looks like a cool community, I think I'd like to be part of this."
Sure, that means different things to different people. I think we may already have had this discussion, but I ended up on
Steemitbecause I was discussing UBI with a Facebook friend, and he sent me a link to an article about a UBI project that just happened to be written there. It was not a plug for the community, it was a plug for the article.I ended up making an account because the level of engagement and respectfulness within that engagement made me look around at other posts... and I thought the whole thing seemed interesting and I was also "Crypto Curious" at the time. Almost six years later... ta-da!
But that's my interpretation: I'm a writer, blogger and content creator.
Your interpretation (just guessing) comes more through the eyes of a gamer, yes?
The common thread is wanting Hive to succeed and thrive. The challenge becomes the myriad different interpretations of "value" when we look across the many cultures, backgrounds, nationalities and interests represented here...
If they are consistently posting genuine comments in others posts, as well as their own, and nobody is reading their work, there must be a problem.
A: The posts are boring or not conducive to discussion.
B: The user isn't connecting with like-minded people.
Thank you for the reminder - Hive has been my main online focus for months, I really should go see about another wave of recruiting next week 😲
The best way to earn Hive and on Hive is consistency in quality or engagement or both.
Hive has been great to me, helping me develop some skills, learning a lot about crypto, getting some spare cash, socializing, entertainment, networking, etc.
When I have more free time again, I'll try to be more active again or give back. I like the idea of appealing to a general audience and onboarding best.
What the honeymooners don't realize is why they are rewarded so well. They just think it's easy money to come on hive, write some decent post get rewarded (which is quite deservingly for their content) but don't realise there's more to just creating good content on hive to maintain longevity. I've seen pretty much a whole community go through that phase, and disappear after the honeymoon period. They could have contributed so much to Hive and their own future if only they believed in the long term future here
This is why I don't think new users should receive big votes right in the beginning as it sends the wrong message. Maybe after 4 or 5 posts once they have showed their commitment would be a better option. I know I wait a week or two before extra curation.
We've dialed it back quite a lot but you can't always help the avalanche of voters piling up. Another big reason we dialed it down is to prevent people squatting accounts just to do a fake intro post for the rewards before they move over to a new account so now we're taking precautions and only giving bigger votes to those confirming having been invited by someone with a reputation and activity on hive.
Good to hear. Shame how some ruin what is genuine support and a helping hand.
😊😎🤙 aloha!
I get what u're saying and won't bother giving my what if, nit picky example of a posts.. how it can actually benefit the one posting it just by writing it..
:P u know, I guess I wasn't around (got sick for a bit) when the whole 50/50 thing went down, but I am not even mad at it.. meaning, even if it were some different breakdown in rewards, I would still do hive just as much. In fact, I am one of the strange hivers who comment 10-20 times more that I post and so an even more heavy weighting on curation would be awesome IMO. :)
ps. totally agree and like your section about honeymoon period of new hivers..
Very much in agreement with this publication.
What do you think of the posts that are a Youtube link and a paragraph? they are trending all the time and they don't even use 3speak, nobody seems to care. They just use the blockchain to paste a link.
That's one of the things that motivated this post, or at least part of it. Some stakeholders here seem to favor a few people that just cross-post content without doing much else and think they're entitled to give those users stake however they please no matter what value they may or may not bring to the platform or if anyone here is consuming that content. It's hilarious when they themselves don't even consume the content their autovoter is upvoting regularly to trending levels, even more so sad that they fail at garnering new readers even though they trend all day.
It seems that to find quality in Hive you have to go outside the trend. 😢
Communities have been great and will hopefully grow the quality in the respective niche over time with more and more authors competing against each other there, not jusy for rewards but for attention, etc. I highly recommend subscribing to some good communities you're interested in and checking out that feed now and then rather than trending or anything-goes communities.
Since forever
Good points!
Content is indeed worthless if it doesn't receive any views, inbound or outbound. And even if it does receive views, 5 seconds views are considered to be bad according to our Search Engines, who make it possible for others to find our content while searching on Google for example. Having a good keyword density in our posts is something to be considered just as valuable when writing blog posts.
This PeakD feature is something I use to see how genuine my posts do, regardless of rewards. When I post links on Twitter (and I don't have a big following), it's still guessing how much traffic actually comes from doing so. But when I post on Facebook, it surely does impact the viewer count (probably because my audience over there is used to me sharing blogs from my own website on Facebook before Hive).
For me, I just found a place where I share my blogs, not persé because of rewards, but simply because it will be on the blockchain forever, and if Hive still exists after my passing, there is nothing that will censor or delete what I've written, but still will be accessible by those who wish to read it.
~~~ embed:1562082203009441795 twitter metadata:YnJpY2tfc29sdXRpb258fGh0dHBzOi8vdHdpdHRlci5jb20vYnJpY2tfc29sdXRpb24vc3RhdHVzLzE1NjIwODIyMDMwMDk0NDE3OTV8 ~~~
The rewards earned on this comment will go directly to the people( @seckorama, @bricksolution, @acidyo ) sharing the post on Twitter as long as they are registered with @poshtoken. Sign up at https://hiveposh.com.
Not that I am great at utilizing it to its fullest potential... but I always tend to think that the post 'description' feature is underutilized because (at least with PeakD) it is what search engines use to find content.
Basically I think there can be much more done with the search engine discovery and specifically how the 'description' feature is used in general to bring more folks to Hive.
On a different note. I only commented because you wrote this:
That put so many things to words that I have been trying to express for quite some time. Good to read it and thanks for spelling it out so clearly!
The Honeymoon period is a dangerous one but also understand the reason behind it. Wouldn't it be better to wait a week or two before to see how they interact with the community. Rather delegate some HP first and then give them no reason not to comment and vote. I think we are sending the wrong signals even though the intentions are right with showing support.
I absolutely agree . Give a bigger delegation rather big upvote as the number of fake accounts set up to try and hit a big upvote on an intro post is staggering.
No blame on OCD for trying because it's everyone's responsibility to keep attack and try and help newbies settle in and get to know people, not just on their first post but consistent engagement with them would aortboutbthevwheat from the chaff.
Yes it is something I am conscience of all the time and prefer to start off slowly seeing what new accounts do. I remember when I joined and had no votes for ages on my posts with no value but I am still here as it made me work even harder. I think if it is made too easy it sends the wrong message and no wonder people don't stay as the rewards will dry up once the honeymoon period is over.
Lot's of people are still sceptical when i mention that you can get paid for posting original content, some even think it's a pyramid game or MLM, but i keep cross posting on twitter , left facebook long time ago and sometimes drop a link on linkedin. Interacting with others is getting better for me, most interaction is on Discord an not on hive itself. To be able to find like minded in my part of photography i did setup a community last week :Macrophotography hopefully it will work to bring more intrest in this form of photography, Time will tell .
Do we have wise accounts on hive? ;-)
In my opinion those real outside influencers mostly will not like HIVE? Arent they used, to stand on a podest, having their followers adoring them? But on HIVE everything is different, to some point even the smallest plankton has the same worth than the biggest fish.
I also thought, wow would be cool if they bring all their followers, they could even reward their fans for commenting. It seems they live a different more ego driven lifestyle and the best of them probably dont care about a 100$ dollar reward on a single post as it's only once payed. "Outside" they can multiply this over a long time and dont see other benefits on long term.
For myself, hm. Still feeling like a newbie, I try to post daily to get seen. I read your post some time ago about the worth of content. This gave me a lot to think, is it really value I add? I dont know. Would appreciate your honest opinion!
Very strange is, whenever I do a post with lower effort, I see (if I dont count the big OCD or curangel votes) that I get much more people voting. Was wondering about. A meaningful post, putting all my time and heart - not much reaction. A relatively quickly written one, some nice photos not very meaningful - a lot of reaction?
My conclusion was: The low effort posts have shorter sentences, are easy to fly over the text. We (or I) dont have people who want to invest time in reading.
Engagement is the key to keep the mission on hive progress which I believe many can testify to it. This however don't only have to be the idea of replying alone but should also bring the idea of attracting people to visit you once again. I believe as this continues improvement will definitely occur and the mission to be consistent would be active and more rewarding to every users that do the right thing to engage.
You said many things, but one of those, I consider it is important education in principle when you get to hive, if possible before. For many retire without even knowing what commitment means, even more critical is the one who stays for years and still has not noticed that there is something beyond posting a post.
On the other hand, it is important to bring people to Hive, I do not know if those who are on Facebook. What I do agree is to make it easier in some way. Oh and one last thought, advertising can help a little to have visibility although many do not like it, we should try not to make it so invasive.
I'm posting here on Hive, IG, and sometimes vlogs on YouTube, but it's mostly for documentation of my activities and not really as an influencer, so in the end, I don't attract much of new followers to my contents.
Some IG followers also don't like reading long posts, so they just stick with Instagram. And all of my referrals didn't last long because they said writing long posts diligently is a bit draining vs traditional social media posts.
Maybe if there's a new Hive dApp that will really disrupt social media, then maybe real influencers will flock in. Most dApps here are just clones of traditional social media apps, so moving to Hive is another work to handle each day plus with Hive has less human audience only automated interactions.
I did not think it would be a problem here aswell - but alas it issss what it isss as they say. Hopefully after a while only those who want to actually be part of a community will stay ^_^
For the fact that we have influencers on Hive being showered with votes and not putting enough effort to bring back value on Hive is crazy. They should not complain if a correction is made on their article since they show no value themselves to Hive.
They are of no difference to regular people who come on here to strive and understand this place. Or not even better than regular guys who tries their best to promote HIVE and give back value.
I understand this concept that: to whom much is given, much is expected. That’s why I do my best to play my part. I earn quite a lot on my post sometimes, and I try my best not to take it for granted.
I have all my favourite authors in my favourite list on Peak'd. Just wondering is there any notification on a platform telling people that someone has just published?? I think the hot period for any post is the first few hours and after that it fades into the unknown unless there is a dramatic argument or a major update from Splinterlands. Then the comments keep coming. Staggering the link to Twitter after a couple of days might prolong your published post.We had a pro footballer on Steem once. Played in the German Bundisliga. Forget his name. I agree on @tarazkp . Don't know how the fecker can produce quality stuff day after day. I get more info about Hive off him than anyone else especially Splinterlands stuff.
F.R.I.D.A.Y (Discord)
Ah I see. Cheers.
You're welcome. You can set various things to report on. I use it and it works nicely.
Your content has been voted as a part of Encouragement program. Keep up the good work!
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Is it controversial to ask if honeymoon period and honeymoon phase are the same thing? dot dot dot
= }
One makes for a pretty crappy honeymoon.
Which makes me wonder,
Might wanna cancel deep sea diving and schedule deep sea fishing.
good points
I think the real thing is that the more followers u have that are active here the more exposure your post will have and the more rewards it will gain
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STOPCheck out the last post from @hivebuzz:
"Influencers" ¿Influencers? ¡Influencers! Bring influencers with a large following to Hive!
Sheesh! I really don't know where that mindset came from that luring & bring onboard external big personalities and known influencers with a large following to Hive was going to be of any benefit to the platform, its users, stakeholders and to the entire ecosystem as a whole. Especially when most of them would already be getting 10x or 100x more the intellectual satisfactions, massages to their egos and monetary rewards somewhere else out there where they are already clearly established?
I'd bet $100 bills against pennies that if I would bother to convince and bring onboard to Hive to Jesus Christ Himself, I have no doubt he'd end up crucified anyway. };)
Re-think content. The Blockchain (those who use it) have failed the content. Mostly, I think that is the me factor. When I get my billions you can share the penny millions that spill over.
Imagine Hive media.
People log in to Hive Media like any news outlet.
But! Hive Media needs to be organised.
It would need it's front end. Once logged in a user has choices, what topic. Politics football blah blah. Click the topic link and Hive authors are linked in the specified topic.
This would require someone to find all the relevant publications each day for the site to link too.
Optionally all authors might post from an organised schedule of one account. Gets more complicated though.
Then you have the ability for just the reader of topics to be here. The way things are. not so easy for a reader to find what they look for.
Opinion wanted on value an account brings.
https://peakd.com/@silverquest/posts
This account by its nature is designed to take money from the reward pool. It does this by posting and accumulation of rewards from giving votes. Subscriptions also contribute. They do not add up to that much. The sub is cheap to keep it fun and open to the newest of members to the chain.
The idea is to build the rewards to cover the cost of the ticket plus a dollar. Then begin to buy two lines or enter to an alternative lotto.
HA! Maybe I should not have asked that you will flag it to bits lmao.
I think we must create a culture of investment, it is not about publishing and get the money you can produce, but to encourage growth and investment I that so little time in hive, I managed to see a great potential, but people do not have the culture to delegate and support because they want to have their hp free to withdraw it later, and it is their money, they earned it, they can do with it what they want, but if we join the votes in support and growth programs that help others while they learn I think it is a good way to make this blockchain more solid, see the work they managed to do with me while I learned to publish was a great investment of time, even so they were by my side, I hope you can review the @hispapro project, and know what it does for the chain, with different support programs from live programs, creation of initiatives to promote publications, hispaup which is like a pot where you collect a hive per user, and then in a live sweepstakes with a bot, the winner is empowered by the hp, making the user grow in power with the support of all, but this type of entrepreneurs need support and you need to delegate because you can not always do this job, it is better I think to leave the responsibility to a bot.
pienso que debemos crear una cultura de inversión, no sé trata de publicar y sacar la plata que puedas producir, sino de fomentar el crecimiento y la inversión yo que tan poco tiempo en hive, logre ver un gran potencial, pero la gente no tiene la cultura de delegar y apoyar pues quieren tener libre su hp para luego poder retirarlo, y es su plata, la ganaron, pueden hacer con ella lo que quieran, pero si unimos los votos en programas de apoyo y crecimiento que ayuden a los demás mientras aprenden considero que es una buena forma de hacer más sólida está cadena de bloques, ver el trabajo que lograron hacer conmigo mientras aprendí a publicar fue una gran inversión de tiempo, aún así estuvieron a mi lado, ahora en lo poquito que tengo apoyo estos proyectos para sumar, para que otros tengan el mismo apoyo que yo tuve, ojalá puedas revisar el proyecto de @hispapro, y conocer lo que hace por la cadena, con diferentes programas de apoyo desde programa en vivo, creaciones de iniciativas para fomentar publicaciones, hispaup que es como un pote dónde se recolecta un hive por usuario, y luego en un sorteo en vivo con un bot, el que gane lo potencian el hp, haciendo que el usuario crezca en poder con el apoyo de todos, pero este tipo de emprendedores, necesitan apoyo y ustedes necesitan delegar ya que no siempre podrán hacer este trabajo, es mejor considero yo que dejar la responsabilidad a un bot.