I write a lot of philosophy, politics, science, and other miscellaneous topics. Every once in awhile I'll go down a religious, paranormal, or esoteric path. Let's face it. I am a weird guy. I gladly wear that label.
So I write this now to all of you that follow my eclectic writings. If I ever write something you disagree with. Feel free to call me out on it. That doesn't mean I'll agree with you. I will welcome the discussion. I also will not expect you to magically and suddenly agree with me. I will not call you ignorant or attempt to belittle you. I will admit I can fail at this if I feel someone is attempting to do this to me and I've been known to fail and resort to similar things. I am aware of this problem though and I am continually getting better at not falling into that personal mental trap. If it happens... my apologies in advance, I am not at all proud of it when it does happen.
Ultimately, you are an individual. I respect that an incredible amount. Everyone will have my respect until they give me reason not respect them. You see I don't agree with the "you have to earn respect" statement. In fact I find it to be flat out wrong. You have my respect at the beginning. You can lose my respect by your actions and behavior, but you do not need to earn it at the beginning. I try to give it to everyone. If for some reason you did lose it, then yes "you have to earn BACK respect" would make more sense to me, for only those who have lost it need to earn anything.
I do not expect you to agree with me, or believe the same things I do. In fact, I think a lot of the magic and wonder in the world comes from difference. I am not omniscient. I am no prophet. I make mistakes. I learn from people I disagree with. Though that learning may take a bit to manifest as I think, and ponder my encounters and observations through the days.
Ultimately, I don't care what YOU BELIEVE. All I want from people is that they truly think for themselves rather than being a puppet/extension of someone else or some group. Be the individual that you are and that can be a beautiful thing.
I may challenge your beliefs, but that is from my perspective. I do not expect you to change. You need to do what works for you and be who you are. I need to do what works for me and be who I am.
I have my flaws:
- I am triggered by the usage of absolutes. They are usually false, so I pounce on the absolute without sometimes reading the entire piece. Usually this doesn't matter because absolutes are usually false. It has however bit me in the ass a few times, and it is a personal flaw.
- I do not like people treating speculation as fact and expecting other people to believe speculation.
- I sometimes feed trolls. I think it is important to know that they are not simply someone disagreeing with me(which is healthy) rather than assuming they are a troll. Thus, I may feed a troll a bit until I am certain they are one. Fortunately, this doesn't happen much here on steemit.
So ultimately, you have my respect from the beginning, I don't care what you choose to believe, that is for you to decide, I only care that you think for yourself and use your mind.
Regarding respect, I reckon showing respect to others you do not know is self-respect, as you are responsible for your behaviour. Behaving in a respectful way shows you care about that responsibility.
I note that, almost certainly due to your attention to your own behaviour, you seem to be the least confrontational writer I have encountered, but do not simply pander so as to avoid conflict. I confess I have already learned by your example, and intend to continue to do so.
You are absolutely correct that ad hominem attacks and other rhetorical tactics completely fail to convert opponents in a debate. However, there are a lot of people, who, seeing such tactics applied, follow on because of the tendency of human society to form around powerful leaders.
Sadly, this trait is the enemy of reason, and civilization itself. I appreciate your rising above such tactics, and, in order that I might myself promote greater civilized discourse, I am trying to do the same.
Thanks!
Thanks, I try. I haven't always been that way. I still slip up occasionally. I just try really hard not to be a hypocrite and practice what I preach.
Not a trivial task! And big boots to fill. Thanks for leading by example.
This makes me very happy. I imagine a distant world in the future and dream of the things people might accomplish if they rise above the petty bickering and thumping of their proverbial chest.
I agree. People can disagree and still be civil about it. Sometimes I think others just forget this.
It's tricky at times... someone totally belittling or name calling you, it is very difficult not to respond in kind. It does take effort. I think it is worth it.
yes it does. But you know you're the bigger person. People resort to name calling when they lack a valid argument. i find that happens often especially when debating politics.
Also thanks for upvoting my story a few days ago. I did notice that. ^_^
I am having to vote less than I like voting at the moment as it drains my power a lot faster since HF19. I am still trying to find my legs. I've not been voting as much lately as I still have only managed to get my voting power up to 80% and it is probably lower again after today.
That is understandable. Seems like a lot of people are adjusting after the last hard fork. Hopefully it will get better to manage soon. I can't wait until i can actually adjust my voting power percentage. I know I've run down my power so have to let it recharge soon.
Community Needs to Gang up and FLAG Everything "Bacchist" Has as a Thug and Bully....he is trying to beat up everyone who he disagrees with and he is flagging the same people over and over 24/7 like some nut case...
Hegel's master/slave dialectic might be useful here:
Two individuals meet. Both recognize in each other similarity, the similarity of sentient individuality and independence. Thus both present a threat to each other in a way that no other thing in nature does.
Struggle for dominance thus ensues. One side wins, the other side submits. But after a time, the master comes to depend on the output of the slave, while the slave learns by resentfully watching his labor get appropriated by others that he is not only worthwhile but also designed to be free. Thus the master/slave relationship does not really produce true freedom for either. And thus eventually the struggle for freedom begins anew because the master/slave arrangement does not truly produce it for either side -- it instead produces a binary star, with both sides destined to endlessly circle each other and never break free.
The only exit from this perpetual tangle, this endless cycle, this yin/yang of dominance and submission, is for both sides to voluntarily avoid dominance of the other, and allow both to interact or avoid interaction as they wish without any hard feelings on either side no matter the choice. Rejoice in pleasant interaction, and wish well without hard feelings if the path of the other lies in another direction.
That is progress through enlightenment. Active defense only when necessary, calm withdrawal in the face of aggression the preferred choice. Allow the universe to construct itself in a productive way, because the universe assembles itself if we allow it to. That is how you bring balance to the Force (to channel my inner nerd, but hey, Star Wars wasn't really just about space opera, now was it...)
I must say that the universe is immune to our perceptions of it. Rather, when we accept what is we are best able to objectively consider our own actions, and thus best able to seek optimal outcomes.
I reckon the force is just as unnecessary as it is nonexistent, but that does not matter to the substance of your remarks, which accurately capture the essence of individual sovereignty and interaction between equals.
I therefore completely support your thesis, insofar as it remains Midichlorian free.
Well -- now you're going to make me have to do a post about this! Such torture..... ;-)
I think most everyone (avoided absolutes haha) has a fair amount of confirmation bias. Acknowledging that mental trap is the best way to avoid it most of the time so you have that going for you!
And yes everyone gets should get a base amount of respect and gain or lose that accordingly. Kind of like the reputation score on here! People start as regarded, and work there way up or down from there if that makes sense? If it doesn't, all you need to know is I concur sir. And look forward to talking more in the future
Well i MUST upvote this. I dont really like that "you must be nice" steemit 'rule' I see many post from big players on steemit no one decides to criticise. If you care what others think i guess you accept constructive criticism. What's the point in commenting all the time "you are great, upvote, follow me i will refollow you.
Yeah if I disagree with you I will comment, but I will do my best not to be an ASS about my disagreement. That's when things usually don't go anywhere. If I consider anything a waste of my time it is name calling and belittling.
Not a fan of spam. I didn't flag this but some people would have. Especially linking to an ambiguous external site. This can be risky for people.
Good post....I am a new user, and write a negative article about the price of Steem and this guy below is staking and bullying me by the minute...so......
Community Needs to Gang up and FLAG Everything "Bacchist" Has as a Thug and Bully....he is trying to beat up everyone who he disagrees with and he is flagging the same people over and over 24/7 like some nut case...
WOW...how rude can you even be.....gezz.....there are no lies....I see that you must be one of his fellow bullies....name calling? Gezzz...what is wrong with you? You should consider removing your comment...it is rude as hell.
he has flagged many things and zeroed out the money...so I deleted 5 articles that had nothing to do with him bullying people which he does...and he does against other people
I don't know man. I've met some people that definitely shouldn't think for themselves lol
I agree and I'm glad there are actually quite a few like-minded people here. But I've had some conversations with some who aren't. One in particular, I won't mention names, seems to be consistently condescending and evades answering any direct challenges to his beliefs. That's fine, people are how they are, but I don't think I'll be having any more conversations with him.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and state an absolute: All beliefs begin with some kind of assumption. One of these assumptions is usually that the believer has access to all the information necessary to support that belief. This is where most beliefs fail, in my opinion. If you're not omniscient, there is a high chance that your belief relies in part in intuition.
For people who believe in reason as the basis of all truth, this can be hard to accept.
Come to think of it, Every. Single. Word. that we use to come to a logical conclusion is only understood through an intuitive grasp of their meanings. Logic and intuition are intertwined.
I should stop rambling 😬
I have had to painfully review my beliefs, and find a great deal of wisdom in what you say. I have come to regard Plato as the father of science, in his statement "I know one thing, that I know nothing." I'm not sure who said "Acknowledgement of ignorance is the beginning of wisdom.", but that's just as true.
I once experienced a prophetic event. I am utterly convinced my experience was real, but upon reflection I had to consider that I cannot be certain that the source of the prophesy was a Deity. It coulda been me with some kind of ansible trying to warn me from the vantage point of hind sight.
It is all too easy to accept the first intuition regarding what to believe, and as our beliefs inform our perceptions, to become trapped in a circular belief system.
Everyone should think for themselves. That doesn't mean they know how. We do the world a service if we can help them start walking that path. Sure it can be difficult and frustrating, and we may not even get to witness what changes we may have wrought. It takes time for these things to grow within people. I believe where we get a lot of our frustration is in expecting instant understanding and a chance to witness the change. It really doesn't usually work out like that except in rare cases. People need time to think.
In fact when the change eventually happens they may not even remember you or your discussion.
Yes, I agree 100%. I was just kidding when I said that. But I'm sure you knew that.
I live in Japan, where people are literally brought up NOT to think for themselves. I teach English, and I consider it my duty as part of my job to try to get my students to think for themselves and question things.
It's definitely not easy, and I'm not even sure how much influence I have when they leave the classroom. But you've got to try.
Exactly. I often call it planting seeds. Some may grow, others may not. I also view discussions with people as them planting seeds in me.
This is the norm. Yet your absolute fails. As you can train yourself not to be fixated on your assumptions and instead view them as possibilities. It takes effort, but you can open yourself to the idea that anything you believe can be wrong, and simply view the world as you working off of probabilities based upon the knowledge you have at the time.
I speak of this because though I still back slide into what you are describing there are also times where I manage to not view it that way. It is not easy though, thus why I back slide. :)
That is EXACTLY what I was getting at. You don't have to believe anything. You can simply absorb information and use it to reason down various paths, without even necessarily coming to a conclusion. You can even let your subconscious do a lot of the work.
One of my most strongly held beliefs is that belief isn't necessary.
It might even be a crutch.
Yes. Or an obstacle.
Well it is definitely often an obstacle.
dwinblood thanks for sharing. I am an avid thinker and am fairly convinced that using our brains will actually empower us as humanity to address all challenges that we face...both ones we create as well as ones we don't. In my process of growing into using my brain several spiritual encounters really laid the foundation of who I am and how/why I function, and really how I think. I am totally with you in regards to absolutes. I believe that as people have a genuine desire to find/commune with their creator they will find it.
In my process of trying to communicate spiritual experiences/encounters with others I find that either I get into trouble, or the person Im engaging with when they attach their identity to their religion or belief and are unable to engage in thought.
Im curious to know your spiritual experiences/perspective on religion.
First. I believe in freedom OF or FROM religion. People are free to believe what they want as long as they don't force it upon me, or they don't pass laws based upon their belief that impact me. I will do my best to show the same courtesy.
With that said I am well versed in quite a few religions, and I know a lot about Christianity and early Judaism. I also have been interested in new age, and other movements. In fact I kind of have been a collector of religious texts most of my life.
The key thing though is I don't believe in any REVEALED or PROPHETIC type religions. In a sense I don't believe in organized religion itself. I see the fingers of man everywhere I look when I study such things, and I see a lot of arrogance disguised as humility (i.e. fake).
It is not for me.
I sometimes call myself an atheist/deist which seems a contradiction, but it turns out it really isn't. I am anti-theistic in the sense that I don't like theistic religions. Though I do think there could be some creator or catalyst which I cannot define, and I can speculate unto infinity. If there is no creator what do I do? I observe and use reason. If there is a creator/catalyst then what do I do? I observe and use reason.
Some people might think this makes me agnostic, but it doesn't. It isn't that I don't care. I do care. I just believe I've distilled it down to two ultimate questions which I'll likely never be able to answer, and another human telling me the answer is going to be them speculating and being arrogant enough to believe they know things they cannot know.
If you want to know more here are a few places I was more specific in my beliefs. I also want to say that this doesn't mean I don't think there are strange dark things out there we haven't explained. I've seen such things. I simply don't treat my speculations about such things as fact.
You asked. In some cases that might be like opening Pandora's Box. If it makes you uncomfortable then I am sorry, as I said I am fine with you believing what you will as long as that does not lead to force applied to me.
Thanks for sharing...really fascinating - I joined steem it today and have never dialogued about this stuff on-line - I appreciate your cander -
In my 12 years of intentionally being open to spirituality I have met incredibly diverse people with incredibly diverse experiences. I have landed for now that if a Creator wants to be known he is more then able to encounter us in our finite self - in which case each individual then has to build out in our limited brains a grid for who that creator is.
I have also found that an open mind to others experiences has helped me shape and engage who I have found to be my creator. Many of the people I do interact with will often share their beliefs or experiences from a hyper-spiritual perspective in order to build themselves up or from a jaded place of pain or disappointment, and even in these when my brain is engaged Im able to have a slightly more complete understanding then before.
All that to say I really appreciate your exhortation in this post for people to think...especially for people to think in such a way that their understanding is probably not complete, and can evolve when faced with new information.
Cheers
I don't remember where I first saw it, but I once came across some meme with a picture of Einstein and "Great Minds Think Alike!" written... with "Alike" scratched out, and "For Themselves" written in graffiti text.
That pretty much summed it up for me.
I enjoy your ruminations, regardless of whether or not I agree with them. I share some of your "flaws," including being triggered by majority generalities phrased as facts or "laws." I sometimes feed trolls, too... but it's for entertainment purposes, mostly... to see if I can feed them enough rope to publicly hang themselves.
Indeed, Einstein is perhaps the best example of exactly that independence of thought. Even regarding his own theories. He was often at odds with other physicists, particularly the Copenhagen school of quantum mechanics, and never (afaik) abandoned his method of ontological consideration of physics and cosmology, which pretty much makes Schrodingers cat impossible.
At the tail end of his career he was regarded as irrelevant by the young turks of cosmology, but had begun to regard de Broglie/Bohm Pilot Wave Theory as not only a better explanation of quantum physics, but completely ontologically consistent with Classical Physics.
I have often yearned for such fresh considerations of cosmology, particularly as string theory, the multiverse, and Schrodinger's Cat continue to pose ontological impossibities. Too many physicists just follow the grants, and to Hell with independent thought.
Nicely done -- I like your approach. I think social media has, for the most part, been a vehicle for people to cordon themselves off with a group of exclusively like-minded people. Maybe Steemit will start to break some of that impulse down so we can start seeing one another as people trying to do the best we can with what we have to work with.
Yes, we need to get rid of echo chambers and circle jerks. To do that you have to be able to talk with people who know different things, believe different things, and often will disagree.
It is only through rational disagreement that knowledge can advance. Absent civilized discourse such diversity of views cannot be resolved into a new synthesis, and, again, knowledge is unnattainable.
I do hope my use of absolutes here is treated as oversimplification, rather than zealotry. Concision is something I essay to achieve, rather than to give free reign to my tendency to excessive verbosity.
See? I'd edit that away, but Imma leave it as an example to me =p
chuckle
well said. respect back.
sorry for being bored, but dont know where to disgree:)
peace
I believe that if we would learn how to believe in the things we believe without trying to make others agree with us, the world would change for the better.
I used to be different a long time ago, trying to show everybody how stupid they were for believing certain things, and how awesome I was for not agreeing and believing something different.
I'm glad I changed, and now I'm able to listen to someone's opinion without feeling the need to contradict that person every 2 minutes. I think I'm learning way more this way.
Nice post, really liked it, I wish you best of luck! :)
I went through a phase early in my college years where I liked "mind fucking" people which looking back I was pretty arrogant. We all live, and hopefully learn.
I thought it was an absolute truth that you were never supposed to feed trolls!!!
I have now been corrected and feel like a better person for it.
... and yes ... per one of your previous posts, it is amazing how fast you can reply/upvote peoples comments.
I think you are faster than most bots.
My problem is I've seen someone call someone a troll and jump all over them and then have their friends jump all over the person when it was clear if you looked that they simply disagreed and the person wasn't actually trolling them at all. Once you realize it then the troll in the story becomes the guy who pounced and brought all of his/her friends to the fight. I don't want to be that guy.
Based on your logical approach, it would be very hard to mistake you for a troll.
A harbinger of truth, but not a troll.
Damn glad I rarely touch reddit anymore. I did tend to feed trolls quite a bit. That is when I truly feel like my time was wasted. One of the few times.
As we are living in the zombie world nowadays people think less and less, cause they are encouraged by the mainstream. Its like they want to fold that responsibility to others - doctors, government, media, priests... so that they wont do the work. That collective hypnosis is powerful and we are all caught up in it every once in a while.
p.s I totally agree with you about the respect part :)
Preach! I don't understand why the concept, "Let's agree to disagree" is so hard for some people. Great post.
Nice post. I would have to agree with you on this one. You have my upvote and resteem. You have my upvote and resteem.
A truth seeker? You have my attention. Followed and ready for combat. =)
Heh... or how about rather than combat... ready to play... then we both survive and are the better for it.
We'll see how it goes)
Thank you for this writing. I sometimes use this wih people when we have a discussion: "Let us just agree we disagree". Most of the times all discussion partners will walk away from the discussion wih a rather good feeling. Nobody has to agree with one and another, sometimes both parties have different views on a matter..
That is a good way to end it if you believe it likely has nowhere left to go.
namaste!
you need to learn what FUD is versus your personal opinion and BS....try respecting FREE SPEECH...
Your free to say whatever you want. I'm free to not respond, not listen, mute you, not vote on you, not follow you, etc. I completely believe in free speech. That doesn't mean I'll support people insulting other people and belittling them. At the moment that doesn't get anyone very far here on steemit.
stalkers and bullies in the community is a problem...and a good reason why STEEM will fall....you cannot increase good authors on all topics if you allow bullies to do these things
I don't allow bullies to do anything. I give them no support. So what does that have to do with anything I said? If a person is an ass then it is THEY who have something to learn. You are free to speak, that doesn't mean you are free from the consequences of your speech.
Free speech never was about forcing people to listen. It was about not stopping you from speaking. People could fire you still, they could choose not to serve you, etc.
Speech is free. You just need to have realistic expectations on how people will react.
Abusive speech and name calling doesn't typically convince anyone of anything other than the person being an ass. So if you truly are trying to change minds it is not the way to go. It's pretty unimpressive.
You HAVEN'T spoken to me this way YET. This is me responding hypothetically to your initial comment.
If people need to use FUD and opinion that is disrespectful and/or offensive then I'd flip your statement on you and state my OPINION that it is they that have something to learn. Then perhaps later I'll learn that they are no longer an ass. :) Then we might have some interesting exchanges.
It is simple..not you...but a person should not be bullied, attacked or stalked for posting a blog about the price of STEEM....it is that simple....this will get out and the STEEM price will crash over this BS in the community...
I agree with that.
How did you respond to them when they did?
Also we've had people saying things like this about steem and steemit for over a year. We've gone through Ponzi scheme talks, etc. So far the predictions have not come true. They may, but so far it doesn't seem to be the case.
he posted name calling on my page....and he then flagged it where it fall off line with his steem power.....and yes, his actions have done nothing but show how flawed the Steemit business model really is....BTW I have extensive experience in all of this stuff off of Wall Street and the Internet...I have been on CNBC over 100 times and featured on the cover of the Wall Street Journal ....my experience today from this guy have confirmed that I am right on target....again, when I asked him to remove all flags, he has refused and to me to move on....what after he bullied me and creamed my new account in Steemit?.....so he can come back later and do it again? I dont think so..
Have a nice day. :)
Note I didn't say FLAG you. I avoid the flag except in extreme occasions... I'd likely simply mute you if it came to that.
SInce I posted an article why STEEM price would fall (from $2.09)...several Bullies have called it FUD which is childish BS.....now this guy below is flagging every article that i have written about any topic, and stalking me. Is this how the Steemit Community wants to be managed? By THUGS controlling what you even say? That is not free speech...
Community Needs to Gang up on "Bacchist" Has as a Thug and Bully....he is trying to beat up everyone who he disagrees with and he is flagging the same people over and over 24/7 like some nut case...most bullies only understand one thing....a bloody nose, in this case where the community lashes back at this guy for bullying new users to do and say what HE wants...NOT GOOD!
I am not a fan of the flag. Especially when it is used for opinion. I won't answer it by using it. I use the flag exclusively for spam, abuse, and plagiarism.
The only way I've found to stop a bully here is to deal with them with civility. Calling them a bully likely won't get them to stop. Having a discussion with them and avoiding name calling and such might.
There are people bigger than @bacchist, but I am not one of them. He got involved in some sports posts which are far more popular with the masses then what I write, so though we started at the same time he is more powerful than I am.
I've also had many exchanges with him. He supports communism, I do not. That's an area we disagree on, but we each show each other mutual respect.
Generally you can convince people with WORDS but it requires doing it calmly and without ATTACKING them. That can get them to stop, but it would have to come from you. Not me.
Furthermore, answering flags with flags just makes things worse. We've seen it here before.
I asked him to stop and to remove all flags and leave me alone..he has refused and has lost his mind....that is a bully...all he has to do is remove all the flags off my page and move on...that is all he needs to do...he is trying to mully me off of steemit....so the choice I have is to go after him and stay on his ass until he learns to stop and move on....but hee needs to remove every single flag across my entire page which he started,....I am a new user...I did not even know how to flag until he lost his mind on my page.....@bacchist he thinks this is all funny....I am 54 years old and a veteran...I will NOT be bullied like this...I fought in Iraq...do you think I will coward to a guy like this...he needs to reverse all OFF my page and I will move on
It likely depends a lot on how you responded. Calling someone any names, including bully typically won't convince people of anything. It only makes them more angry and focused on you. Thus, it is a losing strategy.
Making demands also will not go over well. People don't like being told what to do.
You can ask, and it might work. Making demands usually will not.
And having not read it all I am commenting on is what you are telling me.
You need to settle it with him. Perhaps try another tactic.
Ask him if perhaps he will leave you alone and if he really doesn't like you tell him to mute you and you'd be fine with that. Then he won't see any of your posts or comments.
all good suggestions....his first post was calling me an idiot then flagging me all over the place...now he is staling me...and yes,,,,I have said to him if he removes all his flags, then i will move on and he needs to move on...he will not do that....when i see people like this, they always come back to bully even more and they try to get others to bully you....so he can take the flags off all my page and articles and be nice with people or face the community ....I have read from others about he has done this before.
@baah and you calling people "cunts" who you disagree with make it right? does it?....so after you posted the above, you then go on under an unrelated article and call a person a cunt? You may want to follow your own advice before giving it to others....take care