Since when did it become inappropriate to ask about salary and benefits at a job interview? Did I miss that memo?
Why Does the World Seem to Be Getting Crazier Each Day? Here's an Example for You
This is on my mind, because I just read this news article yesterday where a woman was denied a second job interview at a food delivery company called SkipTheDishes in Winnipeg, Canada, because she dared to ask about salary and benefits. How crazy is that?
You can read the whole article here, but the gist is that she was offered a second interview. When she got home, she realized she forgot to ask what the pay and benefits of the position would be. That's pretty important information, right?
You would want to know that before you bothered going in for a second interview somewhere. I know I would. It's important to know the job is going to offer you the things you need to, you know, pay your bills and eat and such.
But this woman apparently asked a forbidden question when she sent an email inquiring about these things to her interviewer. She received a simply wacko email back informing her that her values did not align with the company's, and so she would not be getting that second interview after all.
Stupid Corporate Culture Strikes Again
What company values did she offend by her questions? Apparently, the company wants people to work for them who are only concerned about providing an excellent delivery experience for their customers, and to whom financial compensation is not an important consideration (or even a consideration at all).
The hiring manager told her the company looks for employees who value "hard work and perseverance in pursuit of company goals as opposed to focusing on compensation."
What alternative universe does this hiring manager exist in? I mean, I'm sure her salary and benefits are pretty good, and among the top reasons she took the job. Sure, she may like what she does, but what good is that if it isn't paying the bills and supporting your family?
Yet, underlings, who are presumably going to be paid less than her, are expected to not care about their compensation package at all? They're meant to just come in and do the job out of the goodness of their hearts?
That's called volunteer work, and it's a wonderful thing. But, it's not why people apply for jobs. They do that because they need the money and benefits the job offers. If they can get a job that pays well that they also like, that's an added bonus.
Ask, Ask, and Ask Again, Without Shame
I've been to job interviews before where salary and benefits weren't mentioned in the job ad. If they weren't brought up during the interview, I always asked about them during the "do you have any questions for us?" phase of that initial meeting. Yes, you're always supposed to emphasize how you can help benefit the company at an interview, but everyone knows that's not really why you're there.
Sure, it's awkward to bring up money, even at a job interview, but you aren't there to help build someone else's business while getting no compensation in return.
No one I ever asked about salary and benefits ever acted like it was an unreasonable question. I'd like to think it's because they realize it is a perfectly reasonable question, perhaps the most reasonable one of all when it comes to getting a job.
Honestly, I wouldn't want to work somewhere where the corporate culture frowned on new hires wanting to know how much they will be paid and any benefits they will receive. That's a huge red flag that this is not a company that cares about you.
There are always other jobs out there, and with the Internet, you can even make your own. Don't work for douchebags because you think you don't have other options. You do. You have tons of them, more so now than ever before, thanks to this big, beautiful online world in which we spend so much of our time.
Walk away from that kind of company, and do not look back. There are much better things for you out there.
The Good Side of the Story, if There is Such
The good news is that the story of what happened to this woman went viral and generated some bad publicity for a fairly new company that is just finding its footing in the food delivery world of Canada. The president of the company contacted her to apologize and offer her that second interview. He also said company interviewers would be re-trained as to how to conduct interviews and how to treat candidates. And, he mentioned the actions of the one interviewer didn't reflect their company values.
But, would he have done all of this without the bad publicity? It's sad, but probably not. You would hope the woman could complain to him and get results from that alone. In this day and age, though, often the only way we have to make companies of any size do the right thing is to give them bad internet publicity. They hate that, because they know it whips up virtual online mobs who will boycott them. They don't do the right thing just because it's the right thing.
I know from experience that you can talk to customer service on the phone at a variety of companies and get nowhere. But, as soon as you complain about them on social media (and especially if you already have a decent following), they are bending over backwards to give you what you want, and their competitors are offering to do it for you at a better price and with better perks.
I've done this a few times, and it's always the same. I even tell the customer service people on the phone that since they won't help me or be decent, I'm putting it on social media. They don't care, but once you tag the company on social media, their social media team DEFINITELY cares.
Your Opinions, Please
So, what do you think? Do we live in a world where you HAVE to generate negative publicity for a company to get them to do the right thing? Is it the only way to keep corporations honest and responsible?
And, would you ever take a job if they didn't tell you the pay and benefits beforehand? Would you ask at an interview if it wasn't brought up by the person interviewing you? Do you even think asking about pay and benefits is proper?
I think it's proper and reasonable. I'm concerned we're living in a world where some companies are starting to think you should work for them only for the joy of knowing you're enriching the company, without giving a second thought as to what the company can do for you.
Why else do you need a job?
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It's not forbidden in the US corporate world, but many employers and HR try to avoid the issue. The main reason is because the salary range for employees doing the same exact job can be so wide....and they just don't want other employees finding out what others make.
Saying our values don't align with the interviewee is bullshit though. That's just an excuse for we don't want to hire you...could be for any reason.
It's nice that the president of the company stepped up and gave her that second interview (after she gave them plenty of bad publicity on social media).
Hopefully it was genuine and not just a marketing move to save face.
I hope so, too.
Seems like an awfully inefficient way of doings things. As now the woman has had to hurt business at the very company she hopes to work for.
True. But, in our current world, that's sometimes what is necessary to get people to do the right thing. At least with social media, she has a means of doing so that is impactful and will make the company respond to her.
Reporting on real events should not be viewed as a thwart. It was the HR who was the real reason the business was hurt, not the applicant. Still, nobody is and can be expected to be perfect in every aspect, so I don't see a reason why both could not work at the company after the problem has been resolved.
I wish this would work everywhere in the world. I recently got out of company that didn't care of their employees. For years and years you slave there, you are demanded quality and quantity all at once, but no one ever can speak about better salaries or benefits. If you didn't like there - here someone else can fill in your seat. When I announced that I will be leaving they even had guts to ask me to stay longer - we can't offer you anything better, but please, stay longer? Are you kidding me? It was such a draining experience.
Oh, stay longer, but with no incentive to do so? Why, thank you, yes, let me keep working at this terrible job for no other reason than to earn your company more profits. (Geez, the business world is awful. It's no place to be.)
Ummm, there is something here that I think people have missed. I only noted it because I have experienced it myself. The person doing the interview may have taken a personal dislike to the interviewee and used her inquiry as an excuse to deny her the second interview. I remember getting the same type of a reaction quite a few years ago after I asked something ( I can't remember what) after I had already been offered the post, but had not yet formally started the job. In fact, it was the same 'you don't value our company' thing. A couple of weeks ago, I was set to start a formal training on another job, and when I was asked if I could do it on Tuesday, I replied that I had an important vet appointment that day, and could I do it (just shadowing the owner for a few hours) on Wednesday? I got the response from the owner that she would check and get back to me on the weekend. The next day I had to take my cat in on an emergency, so I was now free for Tuesday. I let her know, but she did not respond. When I sent another inquiry, she told me she had scheduled another training that day, and gave me the blah-blah about always needing people, etc... . Haven't heard back from her. The key point is that the company is a pet-sitting/caring service, so penalizing someone for caring for their own pet kind of sends a certain bad message. The moral of both these experiences is that the companies were tiny, and owned by unprofessional people, and I definitely got the vibe that they were looking for an excuse to NOT hire me, more because of a personal dislike than anything professional. I gave them that excuse, and they jumped on it. I am, btw, in Canada, though in Quebec. And, yes, it is always appropriate to ask about salary and benefits. The person conducting the interview in the case you mentioned might even have been so embarrassed by forgetting to include that in the interview, she torpedoed the second interview out of spiteful embarrassment.
Yet more reasons why corporate culture is no place to be for actual humans.
I support and I agree with you
Thank you. :)
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Thank you, @randowhale. :)
Any employer that would find this question disqualifying is not an employer worth being employed by.
The interview is not supposed to be a one-sided process. Sure, the employer is usually the one in the position of more power, but it's still a negotiation preceding a contract and a contract requires both parties to agree to all terms. Your salary and benefits are the main reason you get a job, so I refuse to accept that requiring that information can reasonably be frowned upon and I've made that known when I've encountered this during interviews.
That is exactly true. That's why I've never had a problem asking about it if an interviewer doesn't bring it up. And you definitely don't want to work for a company that frowns on this type of question. They would be a bad employer, and you don't want to get into that type of employment situation....you'd just end up getting fired or quitting soon after starting there.
Absolutely, especially with smaller companies. In larger companies it might just be a problem with the particular HR person, not really a company-wide thing, but yes, adverse reaction to salary inquiries should be taken with caution... ;)
Yes. I definitely wouldn't trust a company that looked askance at such questions from applicants.
That's what these meat grinder transnational corporations want. SLAVES. Don't ask about the $$ because you will be paid in cold cuts & peanuts...and you'll have to shell those peanuts. We're not giving you de-shelled peanuts for fuck's sake. The fuck you think this is?!
It's funny because it's sad and true.
That is absolutely ridiculous,,... quite frankly I wouldn't want to work for such a disgusting company's anyway. With morals like that and a horrendous attitude towards potential employees, she should consider this a blessing lol
I think so, too. Imagine how horrible that lady would be to work for. I think the woman got off easy, and will have a better opportunity come along.
For sure... she will definitely have better opportunities come along, as will we all 😎
For sure. :)
unfortunately we live in a global economy where the labor force is larger than the jobs that are available, so employers can pick and choose who they want and they always want to pick someone that is willing to work for next to nothing, or even better a computer/robot that can perform the job 24/7 for free... unfortunately the economy will only get worse as time moves forward...
All the more reason to create your own job. You can't rely on anyone but yourself to ensure a decent income these days.
yes :) worker cooperatives are nice too because they are democratic
Anything that protects workers from employer abuses is always a good thing.
very good interesting post
Thank you. I'm glad you liked it.
It's because you're not supposed to be concerned with money or else it will come off as if you want the job only for the money, which to be honest for most places like this, IS the only reason. It's a silly game we have to play with capitalism where we pretend that we actually want these jobs...
I used to think capitalism was a good thing, but the older I get, the more I can tell that it's a good chunk of what is wrong with the world. I think the planet would be kinder overall without it.
I always viewed the interview process as that of a 2 minute negotiation wrapped in 28 minutes of BS. It's plenty of "so tell me about yourself," and "what we do here is ..." The fact that she did not ask how much the position offered before she sat down to conduct the interview should have been enough for this hiring manager to conclude that her values are right where they need to be.
That's a good point. You'd think since she didn't ask until AFTER the interview was over, and sent the question in an email, that the interviewer would consider that a good thing.
I believe that the"forbidden question" you were referring is not that forbidden in my culture. Cause I also dare to asked that question. :)
As well you should. It's a reasonable question in any culture, I would think. Except, apparently, Canada (or, at least, Winnipeg).
I believe it's more the person's perspective with the question not about which he/she is from. just my opinion :)
hmm Job!!:
Advantages :
-Financial security that allows you dating relationships
Much more stable, durable.
-if you work in the field you like, you feel like you're blooming!
Disadvantages:
You're in prison from evening to morning ...
(You realize it especially during the winter when you do not see the sun of the day!)
-tu es corveable to thank you ...
-exploited by your boss
-stress ... psychological pressure ... (and for some: depression)
-in short, you live for you only on weekends.
And again on Sunday afternoon from 5 pm, you spend your time telling you
That right there is exactly why I can't work a traditional 9 to 5 job. "You're in prison from evening to morning." A full-time job is like being in prison all day, with short furloughs to go home and eat, sleep, come back the next day, and maybe get a break on the weekends. I don't understand how people can live like that. I just can't. I've tried and I can't. Nothing is worth that kind of torture to me.
I've worked part-time jobs, and full-time ones with flexible or non-traditional schedules, and I do okay with those. But, nothing beats having your own business and working for yourself.
You really nailed it here. That's eggzackly how I feel working FT jobs. Like I'm in a damn prison, I get depressed, but I have $$! Meh..