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RE: Raw meat eaters debate vegans?!

in #philosophy7 years ago

If you eat a pound of lard, you will be far healthier than if you eat a pound of vegetable shortening...

Provide a study for this and for the health benefits of raw meat.

Also yeah, if I was about to die raw meat would help me live longer, but is it healthy? PLANTS ARE.

IN regards to starch being responsible for most disease, provide a study.

In regards to processed oils, I'm not defending those. Things like corn syrup and scientifically altered plants are dangerous. I agree. But.. I think I could provide a lot more evidence that meat causes most disease than you can in regards to starch.

Regardless of the parasite worm issue which is frightening thousands of people a year die from, especially sushi which kills a lot of people.. Studies show animal products to be similar to smoking cigs, that's not healthy.

I don't know of any studies showing vegan diets to be comparable to smoking cigs, no.. Vegans tend to live longest and be most healthy BASED ON STUDIES, with least risk of diseases least vitamin deficiencies, better heart health, better sexual health, less balding, less obesity and on and on and on and on and on.

So.. Just show me some studies that show how healthy raw meat is if it's so healthy, there should be a lot of studies out there.

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"
Despite the vitamin E, vitamin K and heart-healthy unsaturated fat content of vegetable shortening, it has two major nutritional drawbacks. One is the 3.2 grams of saturated fat present in one tablespoon of the shortening. According to the Harvard School of Public Health, limiting your intake of saturated fat to 7 percent or less of your total caloric intake can drastically cut your risk of heart disease. Depending on how many calories you consume each day, that tablespoon of vegetable shortening can be a significant amount of that limit. Even more dangerous is the 1.7 grams of trans fat the tablespoon of vegetable shortening contains. Aim to completely eliminate trans fats from your diet because they raise bad cholesterol levels, lower good cholesterol levels and increase your risk of heart disease, reports the Harvard School of Public Health."

If you disbelieve me that trans fats are killers, I will look up actual studies for you.

No you said starch was bad in general, I already told you I don't disagree with the chemical processed things.

Show a study that says starch is bad in general like you said it was. Not chemicals like saturated fat/trans fats and stuff like that.
And if you're worried about that stuff you get tons of it in meat, animal products are the largest contributor to heart disease. THE PRESIDENT OF THE COLLEGE OF CARDIOLOGY IS VEGAN and he advocates his patients to go vegan.

So.. Are you saying you are better researched on this than the president of the college of cardiology?

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"but is it healthy? PLANTS ARE."

By and large, if you are in the jungle, you will live longer if you eat only things that you have to run after to catch. Plants, being immobile, have evolved many defenses against predation. There are a few animals that are poisonous, mostly at the bottom of the food chain, and they have developed violent red, yellow and black coloration to advertise the fact.
But dont believe me. You go out to your nearest forest, eat one plant at random, while I eat one four-legged animal at random. Lets see who lives longest.

Sorry I didn't mean all plants, there are surely poisonous plants out there. I wasn't saying that ALL plants are healthy, I meant edible plants as opposed to meat.

Now I gotta get going for a while, my time is up. I'll respond more later.

Did you mean that all meats are unhealthy? Because all edible meats are not.
Yeah; edible plants and edible meats are edible, and non-edible plants and non-edible meats are not edible. I agree 100% with this.

In general though, because plants are immobile, they are likely to contain more toxins than meat. Try eating a bowl of chillis, or a bowl of lemons (including the pith and skin) or a bowl of basil. Thats the SAFE plants, without even getting into potatoes that have gone green, or veggies that have gone rotten.
Try eating raw (shelled) beans and lentils and you'll be going to the hospital. They are full of lectins, plant poisons. And those are the EDIBLE plants.

Heck, I bloat up like crazy if I eat Jerusalem artichokes, boiled mustard greens or sprouts, all of which I live. Eat too much and I'll be in agony of those COOKED AND PERFECTLY SAFE plant-based foods.

Give me something my stomach can handle, like 4 ounces of raw beef, anyday.

This shouldnt be a war about one OR the other - there are always exceptions and anecdotes and isolated studies and problems with processing.

The truth is that we should eat about 1800 calories of a diet including about 70% non-starchy plants. That's about it.

Meat-only eaters can comensate with metamucil and vitamin pills. Vegans can compensate by eating the settled dregs of beer-brewing or vitamin pills.

But just eat a balanced diet and you'll be better off.

If you eat a lot of starch right now, you really need to cut back hugely. Thats the advice I can give you.

Only have a couple minutes to respond real quick then I gotta go again.. But...

Did you mean that all meats are unhealthy? Because all edible meats are not.

Pretty much. Anything over like 10% of your protein from meat is bad, and other research shows there is really no safe amount of meat.. It's not a health source, it's more of a survival option if you're desperate.

In regards to you saying plants are more likley to be dangerous and all that other stuff about how you react poorly to some plants, and yeah some people have allergies to some plants as well, like some people can break out from touching a peanut and die. That doesn't mean all plants are bad, and there's enough of them that you can find ones you're not allergic to.

I've never personally that I can remember ever had a bad response from any plants. And.. I feel healthier since going vegan in virtually all ways.. So.. The personal experience speaks for itself,the countless athletes out there winning world records and beating the meat eaters speak for itself. The geniuses like Einstein and Tesla who advocated such speak volumes as well. Plants are superior. Modern and ancient knowledge shows this, and personal experience and obvious observation of athletics.

You're arguing a losing battle, and.. What you said earlier about freezing meat to make it safe.. Sorry. Doesn't work.

"Think that freezing food kills E. coli and other nasty microbes? Think again.

That's the lesson from the new E. coli outbreak caused by frozen chicken quesadillas and other snacks that has sickened 24 people in 15 states.

Freezing does slow down the microbes that cause food to spoil, but it's pretty much useless for killing dangerous bugs.

"It actually does a pretty good job of preserving many of the pathogens and microbes that will cause problems later if thawed out," says Trevor Suslow, an extension research specialist at the University of California, Davis, who studies food safety."

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/04/04/176242166/freezing-food-doesnt-kill-e-coli-and-other-germs

So.. Now that you know you can't freeze your meat to make it safe.. What do you say? I know I know.. You'll say.. You can't freeze plants to make them safe either! Or something like that.. Smh... Then I could remind you all the e coli and shit was from diseased farm animals who shit on the plants.. I mean how many wild animals out there in nature are getting e coli from eating off the land?

To me it just seems so clear and obvious in virtually every way.. I don't understand how you can continue to try to argue this when virtually ALL of the evidence is against you.

"I've never personally that I can remember ever had a bad response from any plants. And.. I feel healthier since going vegan in virtually all ways.. So.. The personal experience speaks for itself"

I've never had a bad response from a steak, and I have been FAR healthier - with blood numbers to back it up - since I eliminated plant-based foods (starches) from my diet.
The personal experience speaks for itself.

"What you said earlier about freezing meat to make it safe.. Sorry. Doesn't work.

"Think that freezing food kills E. coli and other nasty microbes? Think again."

The freezing was in response to Sushi parasites, which definitely works. I made that clear, so you are deliberately distorting.

Think E. Coli doesn't come in salads? Think again. http://www.about-ecoli.com/ecoli_outbreaks/news/is-it-safe-to-eat-lettuce-amid-e.-coli-outbreak/#.WYjF4CMrJcw

". I mean how many wild animals out there in nature are getting e coli from eating off the land?"

Cattle eat their own feces all the time. (they shit on their food source) - in the wild, that is. They also eat parasites from the grass, and so on.

Plants are spectacularly susceptible to being shit on by diseased animals. Why? Because they cant move. Dogs pee on grass, as do deer, raccoons, and you just KNOW that bears shit in the woods.

The one place that it is safe to eat without fear of shit contamination is to take out a muscle from an animal and eat it. There is no E. Coli contamination within muscle. There may be in the intestine or on the skin, but not in the muscle. Your wild-foraged greens, however, I suggest you wash very carefully.

Most of what you write is in the "it's so obvious I dont have to prove it, many people are saying, everyone knows" logical fallacy camp, so no point in responding to that.

"The geniuses like Einstein and Tesla who advocated such speak volumes as well. "

Here's a more extensive list of their habits...
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170612-what-you-can-learn-from-einsteins-quirky-habits

Tesla squished his toes 100 times every morning to stimulate his brain cells. He also preferred celibacy until he fell in love with a pigeon (transferred meat pangs, I suppose). Pythagoras banned the eating of legumes. Einstein himself was an avid smoker, so we can dismiss his healthful example.

All of this is of course as pointless as your red herring to begin with.

"I think I could provide a lot more evidence that meat causes most disease than you can in regards to starch."

Unlikely. Starch is the number one killer in the Western diet. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2844943/Why-fry-isn-t-bad-thought-Carbohydrates-risk-diabetes-heart-disease-saturated-fat.html
https://www.livescience.com/48969-heart-disease-diabetes-risks-carbohydrate-saturated-fat.html

Simply put, when you overeat carbs, they get converted to fat IN THE LIVER, where one third stays, destroying your liver. Another third spills into other organs, such as the pancreas and heart, where they cause other diseases. One third makes it to the adipose tissue.
When you overeat fat, it goes straight from the blood to the flab, where it causes few problems.
Basically, starch-> visceral fat, the fat that kills.

PS. Cigarettes are plant "foods". They contain the same toxins I was warning about, and are also found in deadly nightshade and green potatoes. Members of the Solanum family - eat with caution.

"Vegans tend to live longest and be most healthy "

There is a reason for that. Its hard to overeat if you eat vegetables, as most are nutrient poor. You wont get fat on a diet of radishes and cucumbers, or green beans.

But try living on a diet of pizza, fried bread, corn oil, high-fructose corn syrup and Tofu, and you will be going to the hospital fairly quickly.

Sure, you say, there are SOME bad vegan foods.... Yes, and I say the same to you. Eating too much factory meat will make you sick, especially if its processed with things like too much salt and nitrates.

But eating meat is not a killer. The vast majority of meat-eaters live quite happy and long lives.

If I can squeeze out another couple of years by eating raw lentils all day long (toxic by the way), I'll do with the couple of years less.