Downvote
The downvote was designed as a critical part of reward pool distribution. It has also established itself as a relatively effective tool in combating abuse.
Like anything, there are two sides to every coin. The same tool that is used to curtail abuse can be used to bully others on the blockchain. The same tool used to "disagree" with post rewards can be used to "silence" other people's opinions.
As one of the most downvoted people on the Steem blockchain, I completely understand how some people feel when they come under a sustained attack, especially from a whale or a curation trail.
Many people, including the emperor of Steem himself, have suggested removing the downvote function. Here on Hive, it has been talked about a lot too. Of course SMT's would have resolved all that. If you don't believe in downvotes, you could create an SMT without the downvote function.
There is, in fact, one such pseudo-SMT's called APPICS. There is no downvoting on APPICS. If recent memory serves me right, from reading the DTube whitepaper, the Avalon blockchain on which DTube will be running will not have downvotes either. It's also one of the proposed changes in Blurt.
The question then is this: Has the downvote function passed it's sell-by date?
What say ye?
Peace & Love.
No
고마해라~!
이 디질랜드야~!
One downvote does more harm than 100 upvotes. That is psychology. If Hive wants to grow it should end the downvote option.
You're correct about the psychology. A lot of social experiments have been done showing this.
Exactly - downvotes have been used to bully people on Steemit for four years, and now the same is happening on Hive. It is one of the biggest impediments to growing the platform. The cover story that it's to control abuse is just bollocks - it's mostly used to control content and drive users off the platform - always has been. Downvoting sucks and Hive needs to bin it.
You know I will say we need it. I have not found so much that needs downvoting on Hive, but there are still cases of spam and abuse here. The lack of 'bid bots' helps, but there are people who can still buy delegation and use it for themselves. Some of those who get downvoted here are still making a lot of Steem through the sort of behaviour we would discourage, but they cannot get away with it here.
I may be one of the most downvoted on Hive. There's one troll who has a bot farm that can send me 50 flags. Happily I get the support to cancel that out. There is another with big delegation who also downvotes me and can actually affect my reputation score. I accept that as part of the Hive game. I am prepared to take action to defend the platform.
Recently there has been a small account who was posting basically the same post every day as a countdown to her birthday. That is not really adding value as do it attracted some downvotes. She is complaining about that, but she has other posts which are okay and they still earn. It is up to the community to decide where the rewards go and downvotes are a tool for that.
I think you're on to something there. That's one of the major differences between Steem and Hive so far.
I did notice you've being followed around. Even your comments are getting downvoted I noticed.
There is the account that downvotes all my comments, but it has no real effect on me. It may upset some people though. We just to accept there are trolls on Hive and some do have a lot of power.
It must be some kind of bot. I can't imagine someone logged into their computer following you around haha. How sad.
I have had ever post, (and every comment that receives an upvote) down voted on - for over three months now, I think.
The negative function provided by down voting is far greater than the positives...( it drives people off, and I'm sure it stops people signing up- I know it does ).
!ENGAGE 20
ENGAGEtokens.Perhaps keep the downvote option but to downvote you have to leave a 10 word comment first. Then people would at least know why they are being downvoted lol.
That will also discourage impulse downvotes I guess.
And generic bot downvotes.
That would be a good start. A lot of the accounts downvoting are bots or morons who never post or comment, so that's them over and out
nah
next idea pls ^^
LOL. Love it. Straight to the point.
:D
We should remove the upvote button first.
LOL. Radical.
If you just want an echo chamber than sure remove downvotes! I think we’ll see it play out with blurt and die a slow death
I don’t see how you can have upvotes then, let’s remove that too and just do tipping contributions instead! If you going to remove one you should then remove the entire mechanism altogether
Hahah that could be interesting. If upvotes go, 99% of the creators will go. Tipping alone doesn't work. "Free" upvotes is what encourages people to do it. People would probably rather spend their own coins than tip it :)
Indeed most likely but that's where I think the project tends to fail, the inflation distribution has been so focused on that people can't lift their heads up from seeing it more than a cash grab. I mean traditional social media offers you nothing yet people are willing to use it because theirs a sense of value outside earning, which I think is something this place is missing
hive is a massive echo chamber at it is is...is...is...is..is.is.is
I tend to agree, and now its going to get worse with 4 forks running from next month. The way I see it is not about governance, its about who gets to govern and if they don't like the odds they fork! HIVE can only make DPOS work if there's an equal amount of parties that don't agree
4 forks?
uh?
Yes, from next month it will be STEEM, HIVE, BLURT and ZAPATA
blurt and zapata ? do you have any links/info?
I can't believe I've missed this! lol
Their sites aren't up yet, you'll have to check out their twitter or discord
BLURT - interesting name - related to BLOT I wonder?
Lol no clue but I wish them all the best with their project
there seem to be people on here who are paid to downvote - check out this post situation and tell me what you think about it? https://peakd.com/activism/@maxigan/covid-19-hoax-the-crime-of-the-century this guy was downvoted for what? posting his own video on his own page? I went on hive watchers and complained and then #they call me dan swooped in and stuck up for Max - but the other dudes - who's names you will have to find on the list because they are dangerous mf's, when you go to their pages - it shows that they are all enjoying downvoting for the sake of it and calling us all whiners - I just don't get it. Also, I would like to know what this other blockchain you are referring to is -BLUT? I can't find it. please share. thanks!
That post is a perfect example of what downvotes are really being used for, and the abusive comments highlight what is going on.
ok but WHAT are they being used for? and why are certain people being downvoted and others are not? What is it all about?
I'd say content control, with ego stroking and reward theft being added bonuses.
ok, I guess - it seems awfully STUPID, but that's the gubmen ferya
Downvote may have a place when people continuously abuse a system. Perhaps writing to people first explaining they are abusive in their content and reason.
Allow community admin to downvote where on-going abuse takes place. Downvoting creates a negative reaction especially to new arrivals.
A downvote without a reason is a waste of time IMHO...
@tipu curate
Upvoted 👌 (Mana: 0/4)
Thanks you.
It's a difficult one. I'm not exempt myself, even though I know how things are supposed to work. People are happy about unexpected upvotes, but 1 downvote out of 100 upvotes will get to us haha.
At the end of life on Steem I had attracted for no reason up to 40 downvotes at a time, I would have gracefully accepted this had there been one reason given.
Freedom to do a up/down vote is every ones right of choice except when it becomes abusive.
The new Hive system indicates when a person is prone to plagiarism or untoward behavior by @hivewatchers who are doing a sterling job.
Ugh! how annoying! Even if they don't take off much of the reward, or reputation, it's still very annoying to constantly get a stream of downvotes for no reason.
I think it should not be removed from the system but they should have a change like a down boat will not cost anything. Download is only the one boat or discouragement but in the value of money it should not be treated as most of the users are are misusing it
Oh that's interesting. So the downvote should be there, but it shouldn't remove any money from the reward?
Ya.
What would be instead of a downvote button?
Could we get a report button and report people to someone like hivewatchers and they will deem if its spam or plagism.
And not just silence of ones opinion :D
But even Hivewatchers would need the downvote function to do anything. I think in a true decentralised environment, in theory, there's no such thing as 'spam' ;)
Thats a very good point haha.
We could hardcode the downvote button only for the Hivewatcher account :p
Downvotes never should be removed.
Without them there will be just one big trash with everything.
I mean exactly the same posts, stealed content, gifs as posts or other boolshit.
For now with downvotes have problems only that members of community, which really abuse. They treat every mention about this as personal attack, because they think that on blockchain they can do everything. Maybe on centralized social media people don't care about this, because they can't earn on that, so bassicaly they don't do this so ofen, but here on Hive we want see new and orginal content everyday, we want pay people for their effort, we want make this place good for everyone who follows the rules.
What about on APPICS? There's not as much rubbish as I would expect. I think that's probably due to the fact that it is still quite limited and you have to request an invite to use it for now.
Every post and make - and comment I receive an upvote on, are down voted.
For over 3 months now...
That account which downvotes you is the sort of account that needs to be blocked from the platform, but none of us wants to speak it's name for fear of being flagged for ever more, like you...
I recon it is an alt account for a small minded twat with too much hp (with a small penis, obviously).
Another fndamental reason why hive will not grow (or anyother blochchain with money involved - and zero accountability.
Good governance starts with accountability....and there is jack shit here. (with out ID - no accountability)
You can have platforms without ID - but 'mixing up money models with it'?....Mmmmm
I was gonna do post on that very thing - maybe later
I think downvotes are needed but their effect should not be based solely on Hive Power, but reputation too.
You should have needed to gain some reputation before your downvotes count as anything financial, and they should have limited financial effect until your reputation is really good. This means some users cant just sybil loads of accounts delegate their power and make multiple downvotes. All the power for downvoting needs to be concentrated, and that single account needs to remain in good standing.
i have had my fair share of downvotes, however, I think it is still very much a useful tool to curtail abuse. might not be so useful ow but it could be in the future.
I think the old school people will tend to agree with you. It's usually the new people that take any sort of downvote as a personal attack.
Unless the person who downvotes doesn't actively post, it would probably work. Otherwise it's just difficult.
So true.
....like in my case - he doesn't post, just farms curation and downvotes...me.(3 months now)
...every post and every upvote I receive on any comments.
Lately I have not used downvote. But the thing is the moment I saw some fake content or fake user I love to downvote...a kind of warning not to spoil the platform
That's understandable. Personally, I just skip the content and click on something I like instead.
Hahah the best way 😉
They need to stay.
If other apps come out with kyc / unique person account registrations, then I think there is a chance they wouldn't be required. Not going to happen on Hive though.
KYC and identifiable profiles kind of already self limit the abuse. People are less likely to "misbehave" if their identity is known.
Exactly :)
So for that reason I think we'll always need to combat blatant abuse.
Most downvoting IS blatant abuse...
I disagree but would need to look at 2000-3000 daily downvotes individually to be sure.
Thing is - none of us want to name the accounts - I know what happens if I do that from Steemit - but we all know which accounts have been abusing the system for the past four years don't we? And it's not like we have to research it - anyone who has been here long term knows. The account names may change from time to time, but they are not even trying to hide.
Top downvoters since Hive.
dein-nostake-problem, I would say is abuse but is pointless.
fersher and stimialiti, bitter and stakeless nobhead, also abuse.
The rest i am not sure.
I have never used it and I have Commented and Curated on tons of Content, some that probably deserved a downvote. I just do not seem a need for it
I'm becoming more like you as the days go by :)
Downvotes is cancer
Not sure it's that bad
Multiple self-votes each day are selfish. Vote up some other people. You still earn curation rewards that way.
im doing 50/50
Well others noticed, so it may not pay off. If you vote for others then your curation rewards are pretty safe. I have not self-voted in ages as I would rather help others and I do okay anyway as I have made a lot of connections. We need to support new users to keep them engaged if we want the platform to thrive.
Downvotes is love