Has Hive Failed?
In early 2017 I heard about this "social media on blockchain" platform from a crypto Youtuber that I used to watch back in the day and David Packman, a political commentator in the United States. I thought nothing of it until they mentioned a "YouTube alternative" they were both on that "paid you in crypto". That got my attention back then since I was a YouTuber myself at the time and wasn't particularly monetised on that platform yet - at least not on both of my channels.
They were both referring to Steemit and DTube of course. They must have brought quite a fair bit of new users to the platform, which included myself. I've been in this ecosystem since then creating both blog and video content. The YouTuber, and Packman, are long gone. Both either bullied off the platform by some people that didn't like what they were saying, or whatever.
Over the years there have been a number of alternative platforms like LBRY/Odysee, EOS Voice, D-blah, D-blah-blah-blah. All failed. Many large creators have been de-platformed by YouTube and other Web2 giants. Many of them have turned to Rumble and other such places and eventually learned that those aren't decentralised either.
Meanwhile on there have been several efforts made to bring Hive and even 3Speak to their attention. They've either taken one look at it and dismissed it, or have seemingly actively ignored us. I mean, Jack Dorsey, Elon Musk, Alex Jones, heck Donald Trump himself have verbally flirted with our platform but appear to be ignoring the obvious. Trump even went ahead and created his own platform which was a monumental failure. Failure after failure, these folks just kept re-inventing the wheel trying to achieve what we've been doing here for years! As I write this, Dorsey is soooooo close to inventing Hive.
The funny thing is, these other platforms, the minute they launch, they get centre stage attention! Suddenly all the big influencers are talking about them and even signing up. They get talked about non-stop (by name) and people flock to them, only for them to fail miserably.
This content creator, a large crypto influencer, has had his account wrongfully banned twice by YouTube. In this video he bemoans the lack of alternatives. He clearly describes Hive and 3Speak but just calls them "some blockchain like stuff" in a pretty dismissive manner. He then goes ahead to mention Odysee, a dead platform, by name! Do you see what the issue is? This guy is a savvy crypto content creator. You can't tell me he doesn't know about Hive or, maybe, even 3Speak. He described them quite accurately. He just couldn't bring himself to say the names.
He's not the only one I've seen do this. Another very large crypto influencer, Cryptos R US, did the same thing. He had is account taken down for no reason. When he came back he ranted about alternatives but never once mentioned Hive or 3Speak by name. I wonder why.
Talking of the video, I was close to leaving him a comment about Hive and 3Speak, just in case he hasn't heard of this platform. I didn't though. I don't know. I thought he had a point actually - about the users and viewers. Bottom line is, adoption is catastrophically low here and we don't have that many non-content-creating users that consume only. This kind of creator is a creator-only person and won't do well here without himself interacting with people. He can afford to do that on YouTube where most of the users, 99.999% in fact, don't create their own content.
The other reason why I didn't is, to be honest, I don't want to invite someone here for fear they'd just be bullied off the platform anyway.
What do you think? Has hive failed?
Peace & Love,
Adé
Hive has not failed.
All they/he needs to do is register a cool .tv domain name, get it hosted at https://agori.host and stream/livestream from there with the free https://Hive-Tube.com plugin. Easy peezy. He could be up and running (and getting massive syndication too) there in less than 1 day. No more worries of getting banned, demonetized, etc.
I started writing a post about how I think we're on boarding people the wrong way on Hive, everyone creates content and not enough consumption. I need to tidy up my thoughts and dig it out from my draft box
Would be great to see your insights. We really do need a format whereby non-content-creators see inherent value in what we do. A good example is TikTok as I mentioned to someone. Somehow, tiktok consumers have developed a tipping culture and buy tokens on there for the sole purpose of tipping others. It's pretty interesting to see.
If people aren't consuming content here, it means the content they see isn't interesting. That means either there isn't any interesting content here (which I don't think is true) or we are failing to show users the content they want to see. That in itself implies our curation model is not working, regardless of the apparent quality of the posts that get upvoted to the front. eg. comparing Hive to Steemit, we are clearly better, yet compare it to other social media such as Reddit or Instagram, and people are way more interested in the content they find there.
Why would a user who doesn't have a stake here waste their time when they find better content more easily elsewhere?
I could be wrong, but I doubt Hive gets many random users who stumble across Hive uninvited. Those who arrive here, come because someone they knew told them about Hive, and how you can earn by making posts. And that's where the issue lies. Everybody comes here with a "I'm a content creator" mentality. Content consumption does not cross their mind and is not a priority for them. Some "engage" because they're told by their onboarder to do so, but they're not really consuming content. There's a fine line between the two.
Nearly half (45%) of peakd.com's traffic comes from organic search according to similarweb.com. Comments made by @jarvie in the "Town Hall" on Twitter suggest to me that's likely fairly accurate. It's even higher, 62.5% for hive.blog.
I would argue that the fact that we do not see any meaningful channeling of this traffic into either
supports the idea that people land on peakd.com and hive.blog, but they don't find it compelling enough to stick around.
I don't know how many of such users actually go on to visit the home page or trending page, but these are the kinds of things we would need to be looking at to begin to understand why the "content consumer" type user does not stay with Hive.
I don't find that difficult to answer. When I'm on YouTube or other channels, the hurdle for having my own account is low. I've asked this question a lot over the years (on posts like this one): Why doesn't Hive have a guest comment option? If you assume that people don't want to be producers themselves, but just want to browse or comment here and there or leave a "like", why don't we give them the opportunity to do so? How are we supposed to build a larger consumer following without such low entry barriers? I was told that this was a work in progress or that I should check the proposals. So far, however, little or nothing seems to be happening in this direction, as far as I can see. I use Hive as a frontend, not peakd or ecency.
No HIVE is not failed ..... I see we just need to get more normal users in and let them all do normal things here ... so this bigger users start see we have lot users in here who play what this pages on a daily basis and it also brings in some money.
and I've also noticed over the years that if there are people who really don't have anything, they can use HIVE much faster than people who already have everything... since you don't have anything, you use and try to find everything on the internet to make a little living and this how HIVE comes in this game , which could also be the reason why these big users don't come here, they don't want to bother with the system if they have everything, they're just hoping to get stuff free and fast and then try tell all how they are cool and they need more :))) because old websites have given them too much stuff too easily and they haven't HODLed in years .... they are too lazy to build something new in the long term.
Sorry ... I hope my weak English say something :))
I totally agree with you, getting more everyday users would make hive as big as platforms like maybe YouTube, though that is if Hive was trying to be as big as those other platforms. I see web3 as a more advanced interface that could adopt web2s system easily, but has decided to use its own unique content creation and user interaction methods, it will eventually gain recognition, even YouTube had a time when hardly anyone was using it, due to lack of trying something new...and your English is great so no worries 😊
Thank you!! 🤗👍
@foxkoit your welcome😊
Your English is perfectly fine :). I know exactly what you mean. I think we need to find a way to get users here that are not creating content, but just consume. I think that's what the curation rewards were for.
TikTok is a good example of how that is working. Most people on TikTok don't make videos but a lot of people still tip gifts to creators without getting anything back. I don't know why anybody would tip someone on tiktok, but they do it all the time.
Thank you!! .... now I go read what other users say here :)
What r u talking abt fren!
HIVE has been always the talk of the town. All the witnesses keep building. All the content creators are great writers. That 30 person community damn strong.
I only just saw this 1 month late ROTFLOL!!!!
Your reflection on Hive's journey and the challenges it faces in gaining recognition resonates with many in the community. The struggle to attract influential content creators and the issue of low adoption among non-content-creating users are valid concerns. It's frustrating to witness other platforms gaining immediate attention, only to falter later.
The reluctance of some crypto influencers to explicitly mention Hive or 3Speak is indeed puzzling. It raises questions about the barriers we face in getting recognized, even when the merits of the platform are clear. The fear of inviting someone to Hive only to see them face potential bullying adds another layer of complexity to the dilemma.
In essence, Hive hasn't failed in its core concept, but the challenges of recognition and adoption persist. It's a call for the community to reflect on how to overcome these obstacles and create an environment that appeals to both content creators and passive users.
The community is the strongest thing we have here I suppose. Someone pointed out that this could be the last stand against AI :)
If Hive's sole purpose was as a mass adoption content hosting platform then Yes, we would have failed.
But that is not even its main purpose.
The blogging / content aspect was just a way to achieve wide dispersion of the token and thus true decentralisation of the blockchain. This has already been achieved.
That's what 'proof of brain' was always about.
Going forward its useful for community and also allows uncensorable on-chain communication between community members that is crucial when facing attackers (eg Justin Sun) who may be able to censor us on centralised platforms.
But the purpose of Hive is as a decentralised, permissionless, open source back end database for Web 3. Everything from games to @podping to the only viable algorithmic stablecoin to fast and free monetary transactions. And much more.
Interesting. Was this from inception, ie from Steemit days, or a new direction from the fork into Hive?
Indeed, I'm aware of the other stuff too and love podping (I listen to Hive/3Speak podcasts on Apple Podcast app).. but is all this sustainable without the adoption?
This was from inception. I saw Ned speaking about it way back in the early Steem days.
Some adoption is necessary but mass adoption is not.
Mass adoption is ultimately necessary. The crypto space is currently uncompetitive, but we can't assume it will always be like that. The networks that have weak network effects will no longer have a basis for speculation and the money will dry up.
Hive is doing just fine. We are still around, 7 years later. That in itself is an accomplishment for a blockchain. We keep improving, slowly but surely. If we grew quickly, there is the risk the platform would break. Slow growth is best.
I doubt that's true. We don't see the non-content-creating users here because they are unable to comment without making an account and the stats for this site are not readily available or easy to parse given all the frontends involved, but I can almost guarantee you it is a non-zero number. Hive ranks very high in SEO. Many times if you search for something you know is on Hive, the Hive post you are thinking of will be at the top of Google. There is no way that this isn't leading to a lot of incoming traffic.
That said, if you want to talk problems, Hive's problem here is we have no way to convert casual traffic into fans. We have no subscription function. No RSS, no "email me for updates", no newsletter, none of the things that other blogging platforms like Wordpress have. Not to mention, the only way to leave a comment is to make an account, and Hive accounts are so incredibly hard to make for normal people that they give up. It's not worth it for just a comment. Hive will never grow massively until we figure out an easier way to sign up for accounts that doesn't scare off people with dozens of keys. Adding a way for people without accounts to interact would help growth.
3speak sucks, simply put. It has sucked from the beginning. It is a horrible experience. If we want to compete against YouTube, 3speak is not the one to do it. Some more people should tackle video on Hive, just like Leo and Ecency are tackling small-form (Twitter) content.
Seeing it the same way.
Having an easy way to just comment as a guest, to leave a "like" without earning, why not?
Also, I would like to see the "eyes" in numbers on the single blog posts on hive frontend (in the very beginning this was a function but then it disappeared).
As a new user myself I don't think Hive has failed, I just see it as it's own unique thing, though I'm only starting to navigate my way in here but I do think it is something that should be spread. Honestly, if the creators of Hive wanted to be like those other web2 platforms I feel they would have done so easily by now, but I doubt that's wat Hive is meant to achieve.
Welcome and hope you're enjoying the platform :).
@adetorrent yes, I am enjoying the platform, there are so many interesting posts here
The fact that Hive is still here shows it has some staying power, but the active community is tiny really. I think our biggest issue is obscurity despite some efforts, including a rally car getting coverage. The 'bullying' is also an issue to some extent. It has prominence because people talk about it. We've all seen the 'rage quit' posts after someone feels they were hard done by. Those who deal with abuse need to be fair in their actions so that people have a chance to change their ways, but we will get some who try to exploit Hive.
Meanwhile hundreds, or maybe thousands, of people just get on with using Hive every day. A lot of them are busy on Threads and Waves that may not attract attention from the 'Hive police', but those will tend to earn less that posts can.
I would love to see some of the old crowd come back, but we need fresh blood too and a few 'influencers' could make a difference. I think there is big growth potential in niche interests, e.g. if a small reddit group moved over to here. We shall see.
I'm one of those people. I have Hive permanently logged in (post only mode of course) on my macbook and phone. It's probably my top 3 "app" after the camera app and audio apps.
Some of the old folks have gone on to do quite well in the crypto world. I see some of them pop up now and again in the news.
Me too. I don't really use Twtr these days, but I have plenty happening on Hive and get good engagement. I do what I can to support good content. I think we need to be conscious that a lot of rewards tend to go to established people via auto votes and I would include myself in that. We need support to go to people and content with a wider appeal.
I was close my Twitter and Facebook, and Instagram, and Google+ very long ..long time back :)) I been all time here , and I fill be lot years more :)
Well Google+ got shut down years ago. I liked it, but Google have a history of doing that. I keep some accounts just to stay in touch with certain people, but I'm not necessarily active on those platforms. Hive is my main one.
YEs ... HIVE and Discord lets say like this ... Discord is also key thing in HIVE world to have :)
Discord is not ideal to use. We could use the chat in peakd more.
I think HIVE is where it supposed to be for now. It’s not going to onboard the masses. I don’t think that’s what the future of social media is. It’s like what was built here, smaller tokenized communities of like minded people. Eventually it grows as the tech gets more adopted. The masses model is for the advertisement model of social media I believe, as they have to find ways to keep you hooked and addicted to scrolling. Hive isn’t that. I think communities like HIVE ( and HIVE ) are what humans will be doing once the AI effect truly kicks in.
Oh that's a great point!!!!! I'd never considered the AI-resistance nature of Hive. Perhaps I need to recalibrate how I see Hive going forward. It seems many had already let go of this "mass adoption" concept.
No, we are strong and we are together! That's what matters at rough times.
🙌
One thing I am so sure of is the fact that the future of hive is really bright and it is just a matter of time before we see it. The world might not believe in us right now but just a matter of time before they did
Good to see you back here. You've been on this platform for a while I remember.
Hmm
That’s a great thought that some big people in the cryptocurrency world must have heard about Hove before. What if they are looking at the platform like an unserious one?
Well, Hive is not failed but we just have to do better
That’s the thing
It's going to be a joint effort for sure
HEy man .... if you have time , you should jump in here , we have this every week
https://ecency.com/hive-125125/@ph1102/presenta-tu-comunidad-es-en?referral=foxkoit
https://discord.gg/gXKcnSrE?event=1184171559787692072
Maybe next week :). I'm so bugged down with stuff I'm catching up with right now.
ok .
You hit the nail on the head without realizing it. And nobody else seems to be seeing the issue either. This is where you answered the question:
We are a platform of creators but not for consumers. We either need to appeal to the consumers as much as the creators or the creators have to build their own audience outside of Hive and use Hive to monetize it. This is a huge issue in our adoption that nobody seems to want to address. We keep wanting to get these big influencers here hoping they will bring their audience. But they wont come because there is no built in audience.
We need to be attractive to all users or just let creators intergrate Hive into their own sites. If it's the latter then we are seen as just another crypto currency pay gateway. Which honestly, isn't that compelling to the larger creators.
Hive does have some underlying issues that is holding it back from adoption by the general population. But a lot of the older long time users either dismiss the issues or do not see them. Either way it is not growing and if you look at the numbers of active users, it's actually been shrinking over the last year or so.
Hive has not failed.
But it is stumbling and staggering like a drunk leaving the bar.
There are only two ways Hive fails:
While it's fashionable to beat up on the status quo, the existence of a status quo means the platform hasn't failed. I don't care how many people are using Hive, or not, as long as Hive continues to be what it is. Eventually, we'll have more users and user adoption or it will continue to serve well the people it is now serving. But it has not failed.
Social media has become the largest sector of the global economy, bigger than energy, food, and even finance. There are reasons that platforms sabotage themselves, and Hive and Youtool both demonstrate that fact. Hive could achieve the stated goal of providing a platform for free speech that cannot be censored, but it is tweaked so as to NOT achieve that goal.
Since the platform is not intended to succeed, it has succeeded at that. Whatever the covert goals of Dan and Ned actually were, it likely has NOT succeeded at them, because they're both gone.
Thanks!
Edit: BTW, lack of adoption was not the problem. Lack of retention is, and for the reasons you are well aware of.