The Truth as a whole (as previously mentioned) constitutes all that was, is or will be. With respect to everything that does exist or has existed, the Truth, reality or existence is the territory. It contains all that has been known and all that remains unknown. What we do know or have known, is the map of reality or of the territory. The truth of what can be is not manifested yet. It isn’t generated into reality. Future is a potential that can be actualized.
What actual is or has manifested, what does exist or has existed, is the Truth Level 1. This is the current condition. Knowing the various truths comes from objective existence. What can potentially manifest is partly in our hands to a large extent. We create into reality to affect and alter what is there. Some things that do exist, like immoral behavior, shouldn’t exist. It ought not to exist. Where Truth Level 1 is the ‘is’ of actuality, Truth Level 2 is the ‘ought’ of potentiality that can be.
Truth Level 2 is what should be, based on principles of Moral Truth; the absolute ideal compared to the relative condition of reality that changes. The ideal is what is right, good and true; a potential which can be actualized. We can create, generate and manifest a reality that is more good, right and true. Where Truth Level 1 is what is in or has manifested in objective reality, Truth Level 2 is first derived and understood in the subjective consciousness which can then be brought forth and actualized into reality through action. Just as once upon a time there was no fork in existence, a fork was imagined in consciousness and then created into existence.
Truth Level 2 is derived from our consciousness where we have the inner vision to create an inner universe or parallel multiverse within. The power of consciousness can envision universal Moral Truth potentials to actualize as moral truths in the outer universe of existence where our outer vision is present. The potentials from consciousness are actualized into existence.
We can also create falsity into the Truth of existence. The wrong potentials can be brought forth from consciousness (Falsity Level 2) and manifested into existence. False ways can be lived to create a falser reality (Falsity Level 1) compared to a truer reality that could and ought to be. It’s a falser way, but it exists and is part of the overall Truth Level 1 of reality.
Lies are truly spoken, but they aren’t true. If someone lies, it’s not a truth, but it’s true that they lied. Falsity can be truly lived (F1 as part of T1) but isn’t a true way to live (T2). The universal absolutes of T2 and F2 are potentials that can be actualized in relative time to make T1 relatively more or less true or false than what was before. The absolute of T2 is what is always right, good and true as a way to create, generate or manifest into reality. The absolute of F2 is what is always wrong, evil and false as a way to create, generate or manifest into reality. One is the way and path of greater absolute Moral Truth, and the other is the opposite.
To be a genuine, real and authentic being is to generate in alignment with the potentials of what is more right, good and true. The opposite is to be disingenuous, unreal and inauthentic in contradiction to principles of Moral Truth and generate in opposite to what is right, good and true. We’re always generating potentials from where we are. The future potentials are generated in comparison to what is already generated as the current condition of reality. What currently is in the present, is the base being compared to derive and manifest a greater potential in the future.
The Truth itself as an absolute concept (universal) includes all that was (past), is (present) or will be (future). What currently is manifested or has manifested has actually come into being (Truth level 1), while the reality that can become is a potential. Whatever does manifest is a relative (changing, conditional) truth that can change in time (cease to exist, come into existence) within the absolute (unchanging, unconditional) totality of Truth.
The potential to create into the actuality of reality comes from consciousness where we can recognize, understand and choose a higher, realer and true way and path of living (Truth level 2, morality). Moral Truth is absolute as well. A moral truth doesn’t change based on time, cultures or physical locations, contrary to the false “moral” conceptions people have had, do have and will have. The Moral Truth is a subset of the Universal Truth. Particular moral truths are relative to each other (murder is more wrong than assault), but not relative as to their being a moral truth.
There should be a discipline to teach people how to build their truth maps. By learning how to think and therefore why to think a certain thing. If one knows what to look for on a map filled with all sorts of information, the navigation through what we perceive as a reality can be a positive thing for us and for others. The wrong maps of the truth usually lead to nowhere. Even if the nowhere is perceived as something, it in end, it's all void.
Interesting, I like your articles.
There are precious few APODICTIC (logically necessary) TRUTHS.
Most logical truth is purely tautological.
There are precious few claims that are PROVABLY FALSE.
MOST claims hold no "truth-value" (either OPINION or GNOSIS).
Here's a hint, if a claim is emotionally charged, it's OPINION (neither "true" or "false").
Click to watch 23 seconds,
Hello! The quest for truth is difficult, few embark on that journey. How much of our society has been shaped by truth vs by opinions? People are emotional creatures who often think and make decisions based on emotionally charged informations. It is difficult to adress the truth and nothing but the truth to a creature who understands the language of primary emotions rather than logic. Great leaders and liars in parallel had this task of convincing people of their beliefs, based on their own truth. Which, under the microscope of Logic, might lack complete sense. But if charged with emotion, it might have all the sense in the world for those listening
!ENGAGE 25
ENGAGEtokens.If you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth.
only to the fools, not for the facts
delegate 222.22 hive to @deepdrive
hivesigner 222.22 SP delegation to @deepdrive.Hi @logiczombie! Special squad of highly trained hamsters prepared this delegation link for you:
ENGAGEtokens.Thanks
Nope.
It may become indistinguishable from "truth" to some people, but not to all.
!ENGAGE 25
I think you mix objectivity with subjectivity and thus your message becomes conflicting. MORALITY for instance is subjective. To say "Immorality ought to not exist" is EXCLUSIVELY SUBJECTIVE. For example, we humans, believe that it is morally wrong to kill a child/offspring/young life. There is essentially NO EXCUSE that would see that any other way. YET.. a LION (which objectively, is a life form equal to man) does that very thing. We the human then rationalise it, as part of Lion Existentialism. We still don't accept it as right, but we do view it as JUST and essentially compartmentalise it.
LION has no concept of morality though, and we know that, (though we have no absolute proof) but it is not something that we then say "because we are aware of morality, we must now END LION and it's immoral ways." Again, we accept the compartmentalisation of conflicting beliefs. So then.. SUBJECTIVITY is the ruling factor. From existence of Human.. it will never be OK to kill child. Yet as an observer of Lion, we accept it as "that's just how they maintain pure bloodlines"
A FORK also.. is just a formed metal, shaped in one end into 3 (or more or less) points that then interact with the matter which A FORK is utlized for: FOOD. "A FORK" does not exist. That is just the term used to described this relatively innate piece of matter which is one of many that constitutes the technology we refer to as UTENSILS.
I see your post as more about IS DISCOVERED and YET TO BE DISCOVERED. That YES, consciousness is the great frontier in that endeavour. However, discovery is also dependent on PROCESS. Consciousness already has ability to TIME TRAVEL. We do it via recollection of MEMORY. Of course this is completely virtual, but then.. that is PRECISELY the realm of consciousness. TO ACTUALLY travel through the spacetime continuum other than forward through each NOW FRAME that we experience as EXISTENCE is then much more complex. YET, PROCESS of discovery will likely one "day" lead us to not view TIME TRAVEL as the impossibility that is is to us now.
So PROCESS, not consciousness is then what leads to that. When we discover ability to revert to a previous frame, to then allow that frame of PAST to accept an already expressed energy signature and for that Energy of the FUTURE ENTITY to re-interact with an already PAST STATE.. etc etc... I'm not going to give it all away that easy...
kidding I have no clue.
Anyway I really like your writings.. I really enjoy reading your wordings. I just think this post mixes two very different elements of existence and expression. IMO, (as you've identified) CONSCIOUSNESS is the ONLY REALM of REALITY. I see matter as the INSTANCE emerging out of the virtual, claiming place upon the fabric of spacetime. Again, like you point out MANIFESTATION is then what brings that new "light" (instance) into BEING.
first, one word , abortion
second, we only HOPE it is subjective, wrong is pretty much easily distinguished from right.
third, time travel within time, what if time doesn't exist?
Interesting topics
Well that 'right to life' debate is a great example of subjectivity. I am on the side of allowing all life from the point of existence, but then I also support Elitism which means almost all humans alive are dispensable and in fact, useless. Most carry disease and are not achieving betterment. They live in decay and continue the lifestyle through their offspring. Therefore the existence of so many humans is damaging to the health of the species. That's the dilemma of society. To achieve perfection, there is a high price to pay. To have humans rights, is to not be achieving true progress where the species corrects it's flaws.
There is no wrong and right outside of human psyche. WE created that belief system. Universe only honours process and effect. Universe judges nothing. Only its own "laws" of physical manifestation and interaction. If a person throws a baby from a bride (which happened in the country I live) the universe does not alter physics to save that innocent life. Entities outside of our realm likely do but interaction to defend "right" is either not an ability, of there's an even greater force that has only one principle "everything that can happen will happen when it happens".
Your last point is.. somewhat odd. Because strangely, you've chosen to view time subjectively or more accurately: philosophically. PROCESS/ENTROPY very much exists in this realm of physicality and only in a forward direction. Consciousness does not recognize Time (we can both reflect on past and imagine a future), thus as mentioned earlier TIME TRAVEL is possible in such a realm. At no point do I mix physical reality with virtual reality though. I also do not claim the two will always exist parallel to each other. That's again determined by process and entropy.
It might well be that a Trillion "years" from now the universe experiences "reverse time" but not before process indicates that the fall of "time" as all physical expressions know it (action+reaction) have seized to be 'THE Reality'. If human is around at that point, it's not a recognizable being to the human of now. Again process determines and governs that.
I pretty much disagree with everything you said, but you are the one who chose to believe in this.
I will just reinstate one single thing, and you can go further on from there - time as a dimension and proposed as such does not exist and there is no proof to it whatsoever. What is considered the quantifiable is a fabrication.
I don't "believe" in time either. I made clear that PROCESS/ENTROPY is the REAL effect (causality) of physics. That's ACTUALLY Objective Truth.
Do you not see entropy as a process of the universe?
What I see is that things are adding up, and the only thing that can add up is the effort. Conclusion in general is that no conclusion makes sense, and the main question is what/who and how. This is undeniably correct, but numbers are a bit too big for our math or we can't quite get it under dimensional/sensor/other(?) limitation.
That's all subjective.
ENTROPY is part of the expression of physics. THERMODYNAMICS has absolute laws that existed long before human came along and realized them. They will likely exists until the end of "time". Because it's how the Universe formulates matter: thermodynamics.
That's the point I make all along.
That people mix the two.
SUBJECTIVITY: which is from view of a subject/perspective.
OBJECTIVITY: which is from no perspective.
The "view" is actually virtual because it's usually outside of the system. When we talk about thermodynamics, we're actually holding position either outside of the universe: cosmology, or deep within: quantum.
That's why morality/immorality only exist within Human psyche. We deem killing wrong. Yet killing is natural outside of our civilized world.
Actually this here
Is PURE AND ABSOLUTE: OBJECTIVITY.
Which is my point. That it's a trait of human to need to make sense of things. A burden really, because we judge by set spectrums where subject is the viewpoint.
!ENGAGE 25
ENGAGEtokens.There are precious few APODICTIC (logically necessary) TRUTHS.
Most logical truth is purely tautological.
There are precious few claims that are PROVABLY FALSE.
MOST claims hold no "truth-value" (either OPINION or GNOSIS).
Here's a hint, if a claim is emotionally charged, it's OPINION (neither "true" or "false").
Click to watch 23 seconds,
From the fact that a lion kills its offspring it does not follow that morality is subjective. It follows that the lion does not act according to what we call morality. Morality may very well exist in an objective way, and the lion does not know it, and therefore does not act according to it. Why do you say, "morality is subjective"?
There are precious few APODICTIC (logically necessary) TRUTHS.
Most logical truth is purely tautological.
There are precious few claims that are PROVABLY FALSE.
MOST claims hold no "truth-value" (either OPINION or GNOSIS).
Here's a hint, if a claim is emotionally charged, it's OPINION (neither "true" or "false").
Click to watch 23 seconds,
You're right.
I explained why in the follow up comment but I'll clarify. There's obviously a spectrum: GOOD (morality) BAD (immorality). Then there is by default PERPETRATOR (the BAD deed actor) VICTIM (the SUFFERER (that we essentially view as VICTIM) of the act.
The EVENT/ACT which we are deeming/judging (from PERSPECTIVE of OBSERVER) as BAD is ultimately determined by how each SUBJECT is placed on that spectrum. THE ACT alone can't be judged on this spectrum unless those two parties are realized.
LION attacking/destroying CUB (of rival) is THE ACT. So the natural sympathy which we have for VICTIM is how it ultimately exists within the confines of SUBJECTIVITY. Because conversely, to have sympathy for perpetrator is essentially deemed again to be immoral.
OBJECTIVELY it was one life form ending another life form. PHYSICALITY: matter interacting with matter. Energy transforming.
I disagree. The act/event is bad/evil because, on the one hand, the "perpetrator" is doing an evil, and on the other, the "victim" is suffering an evil, thus making the act evil. Evil is not only something that is suffered, but also something that is committed. It not only has to do with us feeling empathy and putting ourselves in the place of the "victim", we can also put ourselves in the place of the "perpetrator" and see what he did as a mistake that we would not want to make.
Also, objectively it does not refer only to that which exists as matter, it also refers to that which exists independently of the observer (subject). I could then say that objective truth does not exist either, because it does not exist materially, which is a self-contradictory argument because by saying that objective truth does not exist I am affirming that it is an objective truth that objective truth does not exist.
You're very confused on the meaning on OBJECTIVITY. You even identify that the ACT of EVIL occurs between two, which are. SUBJECTS.
Thus: SUBJECTIVITY.
Give me one example of "EVIL".. NOT viewed from human perspective and tell me WHY it would be deemed EVIL?
I also make clear that OBJECTIVITY is VIRTUAL VIEWPOINT. Why are you confusing it and saying "it doesn't just exist with matter". Matter (physicality) and judgement (which is what all this is) are not the same thing.
That's precisely why OBJECTIVITY doesn't respect EVIL/GOOD. Because it never existed until Human came along and created the viewpoint.. WITHIN HUMAN MIND... SUBJECTIVITY.
Maybe we speak two different languages.
It is not possible to do what you ask of me, to give an example seen from a non-human perspective, not because it does not exist, but because I am human and I am inherently limited to giving an answer from a human perspective. Even if you think you can give an answer like that you will not be able to, and it will only be an illusion. Everything you can say is limited by your vision, your hearing, your olfaction, your taste, your haptic perception, and your intellection (perception of ideas), tell me something that exists objectively that is not seen from this point of view, something that exists objectively but not from a human perspective in which you use any of these senses. You cannot give me an example of something that exists beyond your senses because you are limited, you can only see the world from a human perspective. There is nothing beyond this for us, it even still exists.
Objectivity refers to all those things that are related to the object, and not to the subject, (in the subject-object dichotomy), that is, what exists in itself. When we say that something is objective, we say that it exists in itself, that it exists independently of me (the subject).
I never said anything remotely like that.
We don't judge something as good or bad by pure arbitrariness of us, we perceive good or bad in something and that is why we put that label on it, if there was no good or bad in it, we would not put that label on it, and affirming the latter is to say that the human is in such a state of madness, that he sees things where there are none. The same would happen with other ideas such as justice, it does not exist according to you, beauty, truth, etc.
You speak as if the human were something alien to their environment. As if these two things had nothing to do with it at all, when the opposite is true, the human and the environment in which he lives, the human and the universe, are a unit.
Saying this is like saying that we see it through the eyes only exist in our eyes and not objectively, there is a difference between what is perceive and what is perceived.
No but we can talk about cosmology can't we?
That's actually talking about something outside of the human perspective.
THAT'S OBJECTIVITY.
You CAN'T speak of evil/good outside of human MINDSET because that's SUBJECTIVITY... which you agree is not possible. I already knew that. That's the VERY POINT.
We also ARE ALIEN to the rest of life on earth because we've figured out (although we don't know how) SELF AWARENESS.
SEEN IT THROUGH HUMAN does not mean SEEN THROUGH EYES. Because we can also see it OBJECTIVELY.... VIRTUAL EYES. Again, think of cosmology. We use complex mathematics as our "eyes" and computer models generate that "visual" environment. NO HUMAN did that with physical eyes. Not yet.
You continue to mix the two views and this is now just making you look bad. (Not EVIL BAD lol... Or Michael Jackson Bad!) It's just not something you can mix and then expect me to take serious. I appreciate this discussion though but I think you need to study the VERY DEFINITE difference between subjectivity and objectivity.
!ENGAGE 25
ENGAGEtokens.There are precious few APODICTIC (logically necessary) TRUTHS.
Most logical truth is purely tautological.
There are precious few claims that are PROVABLY FALSE.
MOST claims hold no "truth-value" (either OPINION or GNOSIS).
Here's a hint, if a claim is emotionally charged, it's OPINION (neither "true" or "false").
Click to watch 23 seconds,
I see your angle. That's within human experience and expression. I agree with your point on emotion as the drive. It's subjective still.
I'll tell you something, (with danger of sounding superior and egotistical) I once detached from Humanism. It was an odd and dark experience but also cleansing and mind altering. It was truly transcendental.
My physical watched: by my virtual.
At the time I was pursuing deep spirituality and shamanism. Dreaming was the place I considered myself awake. Awake, I viewed the experience as observing another life form.
I achieved such detachment that I no longer "felt human" and therefore didn't feel any pain. So one day, while doing some home improvement, I drilled a hole through my finger and viewed the experience completely outside of myself. It was a self-tapping metal phillips head, so I was applying much force. It jumped off the screw head and burrowed a large hole into the underside of my index finger. I sat there like I was watching a medical video. Examining the internal "goo" on my flesh. This was what "snapped me back to reality".
Because I realized existing disconnected was dangerous to my life and also what made me completely come to the realisation that WE ACTUALLY ARE outside of ourselves - as consciousness - OBSERVING ourselves. Yet we view consciousness as WITHIN, because from BRAIN emerges MIND. Thus, EMOTION is proof of that duality. (the nervous system: has physical existence but virtual expression), So this duality is highly necessary for us to VALUE that lifeform (physical entity) that we are attached to.
SUBJECTIVITY then, is most definitely how we view environment, all interactions within it, and all elements of this external Energy field, outside of our primary position (SELF). Including other Humans. So it makes clear sense why SUBJECTIVITY is wrongfully seen as THE REALITY and so many struggle to see the difference it holds from OBJECTIVITY.
OBJECTIVITY doesn't emerge out of individual/subjective experience. It is THE FIRST INSTANCE of Energy Manifestation, before interpretation by Experiencer. That's what I attempted to achieve with this comment chain. To prove how MORALITY is second layer, constructed exclusively by Humans. That it's only within Human systems (spectrums) that it means something.
Now the conundrum that now exists (if you've picked up on it) is that there's a conflict here in my body of text. How do I see objectivity as the ruling truth, but also claim spirituality.
That's a DUALITY. This is... "true".
To expand on that however requires much more than words alone. So it will exist as.. a cliffhanger. Because the easy story is that, I intended to put that on here (steemit originally) but then after understanding the system and community I arrived at thinking that it would not be seen as value, and then gave up on wanting to put that on the platform.
Hive has aged well, in the community sense, but still not the spiritual/mindful collective I thought I would find. I wait patiently though. Because I don't see the passage of time from then (when I joined) to now and to future as length. Just process in effect. I hold belief that these platforms will mature and then attract mass of many walks, so likely, I'll end up fulfilling that ambition of content expression once the system is sufficient.
Time - Will - Tell
Right off the bat you are wrong. Actions produce effects in reality. Action that cause harm produce measurable effects in reality. These are not rights one has to take. They are wrongs you don't have a right to take. Classifying what is right and wrong based on objective measurable effects of harm is morality. Culture doesn't determine morality, which is how most of the world think morality operates, which is why it is subjectively determined at the whims of people. Objective morality is the same everywhere. Moral truth is of the domain of humans to discover and learn to live by, not other animals.
Your own conclusion aligns with the point I made, that it doesn't exist outside of human existence/experience.
That's is why I used LION as example. Because you then can't claim morality as a universal truth if you see it as only a thing meaningful to humans.
There are precious few APODICTIC (logically necessary) TRUTHS.
Most logical truth is purely tautological.
There are precious few claims that are PROVABLY FALSE.
MOST claims hold no "truth-value" (either OPINION or GNOSIS).
Here's a hint, if a claim is emotionally charged, it's OPINION (neither "true" or "false").
Click to watch 23 seconds,
Maybe, but not in the way that you seem to think,