Moments of Pleasure, Years of Pain!
I got the title from of Dan's recent monologue at 3-speak. It felt original. I feel quite similarly about hive. It's lots slogging and crap most of the time punctuated by moments of absolute joy. I am going through one such phases of joy at the moment. Lately I have been analysing some hive stateholder data. This is simply because lately I am trying to encourage some splinterlands players to engage in hive. So obviously I am having to answer questions related to "hive etiquette". To understand that, and maybe the underlying behavior of hiveans in general, I started to do some data visualization.
Basically, I think I am trying to detach a person from his shadow! No clue about what I am talking about? Well you got to read Haruki Murakami's Hard-boiled Wonderland and the End of the World. Don't worry, you don't need to read and understand that book to read through this post!
Generated with AI DALL-E3 ∙ August 26, 2024 at 4:29 PM; using prompt "detach yourself from your shadow landscape image"
Top 1000 Hive Stakeholders
This is a continueation from my previous post where I analyzed the Top 200 Hive Stakeholder data. Now here is the top 1000 HP plotted with Held HP along the X-axis in log scale (I will try to keep this axis similar in all plots) and Reputation along the Y-axis. The size of the circles represents author HP.
This is the overview plot. Few observations:
- Few datapoints higher than 500K HP (our Whale mark)
- Lot of data lower than 500K HP
- Data density increases the lower or more to the left along the X-axis we go!
- Size of the circle generally higher more to the left
Same plot with our social classes! The lowest HP is 14,126. If your HP is lower than that, your data is not included.
A closer look at our Middle Class
I said in the previous post that a strong and active middle class is very important in the success of any economy, so same goes for our hive economy.
A closer look at HP 100K and below will help us focus on our middle class. You are looking at 800 total accounts in this view. Obviously we need to draw the 65 rep line, which is in yellow.
Next we look at the same region of HP, but only in rep 65 and higher, because that is where the action is! I have drawn the 50K HP green line, but I honestly do not see a significant different on either side of the vertical green line. We need to look at Authors HP against Held HP to understand the posting pattern of these folks!
As we have established in the previous post, the dashed yellow like is the Author HP + Held HP isoline. If an account is above this line it is currently holding less HP than the Author rewards.
We did upto here on the previous analysis. The post was well liked and had many comments and requests. One good one was a reminder that Authors also personally curate, either by manual curation or by automation. Both processes earn them Curation rewards. So if we are splitting hairs, we should be looking at Total earning which is Author Rewards + Curation Rewards.
Naughty?
Mind you, this is tongue-in-cheek! Just because you sold some hive doesn't really make you naughty. You might have a good reason to take profit. You might be investing into other on-chain or off-chain assets. It is none of my business. I am just looking at the data.
Above the yellow line, you have earned more than you currently hold. Good or Bad is obviously subjective, and I am not judging.
I see this as a positive item. I see more dots below the yellow dashed line than above. This means as a community we are more disciplined. At least our Top 1000 is more disciplined for sure.
Being a scientist, I wanted more concrete estimate. Summarize all the data into a simple number. Can I do that?
I will call it the Krampus Co-efficient! Because why not?
If I divide Author Rewards + Curation Rewards by Held HP, people who held more HP than they earn will have a fraction less than 1.0. Those who held less HP will have a fraction higher than 1.0. This is the Krampus Co-efficient! Or KE.
- KE = 1.0, you hold exactly as you earn (approximately!)
- KE > 1.0, you hold less than you earn
- KE < 1.0, you hold more than you earn
There are three plots above. The first two focus on the Authors, and the third one shows the separation of major curation programs, which are mostly delegated HP. Hive users delegate HP to have curation done by groups of people (curators). The programs generally provides a return to the investors immediately. This is a commercial service, and should not be confused with an individual.
Also another note, the highlighted names are random mostly, unless someone is asking me to put their name or if some name I wanted to see because I intuitively know their hive etiquette.
There you have it. I have detached your shadow from yourself :) It is upto you how you deal with it.
156 accounts out of 1000 have KE > 1.0
6 of those accounts are in Top 200 HP holders
150 accounts out of 800 have KE > 1.0 in the HP holders below Top 200
Curation accounts are excluded.
I feel as a community we are doing well.
Only 15% of our Top 1000 HP holders are net sellers. Rest are holding for an extended period.
Love it - I'm naughty! But also love that you take pains to say no judgement. I paid off the rest of my mortgage by swapping HIVE for BTC at the right time, so I'm happy enough with my actions! I'd love to see more of these data posts - I tend to tick along on HIVE as I'm here for the enjoyment I get out of writing and reading others, but it's good for me to focus on the data once in a while.
I did say no judgement!
Isn't it a powerful story to share? Why if you ask, here is my answer:
Power to you Riv I say!
May the river of grace always flows through you!
Thankyou my love! It is a powerful story - I tell it to anyone who listens!
@bpcvoter3, sorry! You need more $IDD to use this command.
The minimum requirement is 50.0 IDD balance.
More $IDD is available from Hive-Engine or Tribaldex
@bpcvoter3, sorry! You need more $HOP to use this command.
The minimum requirement is 1.0 HOP balance.
More $HOP is available from Hive-Engine or Tribaldex
Nothing can be achieved without pain, struggle, and challenging moments. So along with a big congratulations to everyone in the top 1000, I also want to share my sincere respect!!
The intent of this post was not to congratulate people for being alive, but to show where they belong in the community.
Your KE = 3.46
That means you have extracted nearly 3.5X rewards compared to your currently held HP. Think about it, and process this information.
PS. Since I know you nearly from your day 1 at hive; I went in and checked your account to process the information myself!
I am happy to report you have no outflow from your account. All those 'extractions' are saved as HBD in your savings.
Congratulations!
Thank you but I am not sure if it's a situation that should really be congratulated. I wish I could invest more in this platform and be more recognized for this thing rather than my blogs. But yeah, it's been a while since I joined the chain and I am happy to meet you from my first days around! :)
That is prudent to say.
Since we are decentralized the responsibility is on you. Why don’t you show the light to someone new. Someone who is not here but you know. Also someone who is here already but seems lost. Show them the way!
I am afraid this is very hard to achieve. I hate being a pessimist but when I joined the chain I brought quite a few people and we had a very stable and beautiful community until the big drop happened and 95% of them ran away!
I am assuming this is the situation for more people as many look towards a new opportunity only when things seem easy and nice but when it gets harder, they simply disappear. Most of the Romanians that are still on the chain right now, don't even live in Romania anymore because of obvious reasons and lots of things missing, including financial education!
The best I could do was to welcome the newbies and obviously offer advice from what I learned being on here. But when the first questions are all related to income, rewards, and methods to get as much as possible in the shortest period of time before the price drops, it seems like a lost battle already.
It's terrible to say this based on how much I try to promote my country, but Romania is a beautiful country, those leading it and some of the people living within are the problem!
@gabrielatravels with your experience on Hive, you have so much you can offer, and it doesn't need to be restricted to people from Romania only. I get it, it gets frustrating when newbies focus is not in the right place, and that's where we can help. Even if it's just one or two people, that's one or two more people who can go on to contribute to help Hive growthin the future. The chain and communities are also desperately in need of good curators, I'm sure your contribution will be welcome and appreciated
I agree! I never said it is easy. Otherwise we would be very popular and Hive will be well above $1.
I think I have a theory on this. People on social media prefers their ideas, opnions, being read by as many people as possible as opposed to money.
I mean they love the money, but enjoys the limelight and interaction with their friends more than money. Also they will be where their friends are. They don't care if Facebook sells their data and exploits their pocketbook; since their friends are on Facebook, they will be on Facebook.
So I don't think we can change this behavior. Hive requires a special type of people. The 5% who stayed, let us work on them.
Exactly!! I couldn't say this better honestly. I'm happy my message wasn't misunderstood! Hugs from Romania!
I've invited a lot of musicians to be part of Hive and of those only 2 have been consistent and are thrilled with the blockchain. @kococuatro @edgardsaxo
I still believe that Hive is a great platform and that HP is a great tool to help people around the world realize their dreams.
Hive connects us, because we all have a part of the responsibility for its future.
Congratulations @azircon For reaching the top 1000
Will you be continuing these analysis? They're really good to provoke people to think more about their actions on Hive.
I have the data prepared upto rank 2500, which is 4500 HP. That is minnow territory. Unless I get a data dump from @arcange I won't look any further below. But that is already Minnow territory.
So yes, I will be doing one more post.
Trouble is this is static, and will be obsolete immediately. However, I am mostly interested in the broader patterns which is going to be more or less constant or slowly changing.
Yes. I wanted to trigger a change. I am glad I see that happening already.
Here is you, custom made only for you :) Your KE = 0.85 is a very good number by the way!
Ooh, can I have a custome made one, too, please?
I've enjoyed these posts so much and looking forward to the other one you have planned. It's great to see a solid middle class base and illuminating to have a more rounded picture of Hive.
KE = 0.22 is absolutely amazing!
Here you are among your peers!
Notice, they are basically all on the Santa's list. This is typical at this HP range! I call it the "owner class".
Since there are so few people here, I can zoom even further!
Thank you 😍
Nice 😃
Let me try to improve that soon
I promise I will write about my perfumes soon and also my shaving creams. Both of which I carry at least 50 different brands :)
50 only? I wouldn't expect anything less 😄
Never really counted, could be more
Fascinating analysis - Very clearly presented.
Obvs my position is that peops should aim to power up MORE than they take out, not necessarily power up everything they earn!
Interesting to note that the ratio is so much higher for the 50K plus accounts, had no idea the 'farming' was so much worse lower down the orders.
Be interesting to see the longer term stats going back to the Steem days. Be interesting to know how many are really long term hodlers!
There's no need to rely on @arcange necessarily, @dalz or @geekgirl, maybe even @slobberchops or @steevc have enough command of the code to knock up more detailed stats.
Post defo under rewarded IMO!
Much appreciated! I had some time on my hand, and I have been trying to onboard few new people, so wanted to see for myself how existing people are doing at hive. That's all. I am glad that people like it. I think they all wanted to see how the community is doing. It is probably good just before hive fest. A little bit of self criticism is something probably our whole community should embrace.
I agree, wholeheartedly!
This is a really cool visualization of the Hive Ecosystem and "Money Flow".
I appreciate this as it helps me understand a bit more about how much Hive is required to be "meaningful" as well as the ability to see who's doing what with theirs :P
Great post AZ
What I am asking SL players is to be active on hive. To do that I must demonstrate what is good hive etiquette not just by words but also by numbers and plots. That's the goal. Hopefully you understand what is good etiquette and what is bad etiquette. If you understand it quantitatively then it can follow it in practice. Words are easy to fake, data is not to easy to fake.
Yes sir - that is why I have been adding more Hive and will continue to do so :)
In addition, I have been more active and will probably have a little more time to do so due to some unfortunate life events... but we shall see!
Ok, I was delayed by work, but I just got around to reading this. Very interesting results. Feel free to make my name visible in future results. I hope I am on the Good list in future ones, but either way I'm interested in seeing the results.
I'm honestly a bit surprised that only 15% of the top 1000 are net sellers. I am generally am optimist and think well of people, but on Discord in many of the popular hangouts like Bro and Leo, the majority of talk is about how much abuse is going on among the top Hive users. I'm glad to see that the actual data shows otherwise.
There you go; your KE = 0.76. You are Santa's list :)
Ah, I think I know why I am so close to the line. There was a period that I was taking all of my HBD and putting it into savings instead of converting it to Hive and powering it up. My guess is that is why my author rewards are nearly higher than what I have powered up. I'd likely be over 100k HP if I had powered the 8000 HBD I have in savings up.
Generally speaking if you are within 10% on either side of 1.0, then likely you have done something similar like what you are describing.
So KE of 0.9 to 1.1 can have people like you, or it can also have people who do hold less than they have earn. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
It is a fun exercise you must admit.
Indeed! I've been finding these posts quite interesting!
AH YES - the HBD!
Very interesting data! So to be in the top 1000 hive Power holders you need 15,000 hive Power or an investment of about $2,700 with HIVE at about 18 cents.
If you were investing fresh $ into Hive ecosystem how would you allocate your investment?
Is it all into staked hive tokens (Hive Power) or some into HBD which pays 15% and is somewhat of a stablecoin?
Yes, all into staked hive.
Staked hive provides curation return, which is also 15%. In fact, that is the source of HBD's return.
Average curation return at hive is about 15%.
Ever since I started writing at the end of 2023, I have not sold any more HIVE for Splinterlands assets. Instead, I've been splitting my reward between more HP and more HBD, which goes straight into savings for more APR. I'm really enjoying watching my account grow day by day, week after week. I've even snagged a few HiveBuzz powerup bees along the way this year!
1493 HP is deep into the hive jungle :) I don't think my analysis can go that deep for now, but keep working on it, and try to make it 14000 HP, and you are close to top 1000 :)
Only a few years to 10x my pile. I got this!
Maybe it is finally time for me to automate daily curation, but I still like to read, comment, and upvote on my own.
I am in the same boat Duce - I like upvoting and commenting myself :P
The best way to do it!
The Krampus Coefficient... haha! Perfect. Another fantastic deep dive into our ecosystem. Looking forward to the minnow post to come, az! Great work
Much appreciated. We are in this together.
Now we just need a web browser script that injects the KE ratio of a hive user next to their rep. So it shows like rep 72 / KE 1.22 or something like that. Maybe one day peakd will implement the KE ratio right next to the rep natively.
It is incredibly simple, right? (Author+Curation)/HP....that's all.
You can make it potentially complicated, like what if user holds
These will take a few false negative out. However, I don't think it will bulk the overall trend.
My shadow's the only one that walks beside me
I intersect with a K.E. of 1, that will do me. A hairsbreadth more and I would be Dr Evil in my Volcanic Island lair. 😀
I love the "naughty" tongue in cheek bit. It's just transparency and even though the chain is ultimately transparent seeing things in graphs like this is blummin magic to support that view.
Keep going, new data analyst man!
I don't know how you landed that impressive feat, because I thought that would not be easily possible! :) Must be your Volcanic Island Lair!
I always love data visualization. I do a lot of that for living/work. Fun fact, there haven't been work as I am resting at home. Soon that will change though!
You should do take a little longer off work. Do a bit more hive posting 🙂
Data visualisation is the best. I might have to steal that style of graph for work!
Thanks for this great data. It looks like the top 1000 mostly keep Hive in their wallet. When I checked the KE for myself I found it at 1.08. I'm going to Power Up my recently purchased Hives and get it down to at least below 1. I cashed out some crypto when I got engaged and that's what changed things.
That is a great call!
So, 15% selling is not so bad, but what percentage of total sales does that represent?
I keep getting told that it is the redfish authors selling everything they get that is creating the down pressure on the price, can you make a visualization of how that 15% stacks up against the rest of the sellers?
And, who is doing the buying?
Somebody is keeping the price above my mortgage the pets and back up the truck price of <.1usd.
I'd be interested in knowing if that price support was coming from the people that already have game breaking amounts.
It certainly isn't coming from the folks selling to pay for lunch.
I'm gonna bet that the exchanges anonymize too much of the data on who holds the ~1/3 of hive on exchanges to be able to accurately determine who is doing that holding.
If it is still 1/3, that report was demonetized years ago and no longer publishes.
source
Look into this post and the last plot
https://peakd.com/hive-13323/@azircon/governing-dynamics-gentleman-top-2500-hive-accounts
So, if I understand the chart correctly, 73.6% of the top 2500 posting authors hold more than they sell, but my question is if the top earning accounts sell more than all the others combined?
50% of the daily inflation intended to attract newbs goes to the top 20 curating accounts and their preferred authors.
The restivus split what they don't take, or burn.
This chart only shows those with up to 20k hp, I'd like an overall picture of how the selling of the top earning accounts compares to the restofus.
Not to bring shame on the greedy, but to shed light on the subject for the unknowing.
I've been asking this question for a long time, and all I get in answer is that the greedy minnows and redfish are keeping us in the poor house.
Dalz frequently publishes the top earning accounts. They don’t sell. Selling does increase exponentially as we go down the HP ladder. So what people are telling you is indeed true. Supported by data.
Yes, and this is an issue, imo.
Hive is already centralized to a game breaking amount.
All hail, the ninjamine!
Why would anybody buy in above a nickel when the price to power ratio is not profitably favorable to changing who is allowed to influence the shot calling even a little bit?
TMM said it one day, he came to the conclusion that no matter how much hive he accumulated he would never have enough to impact the status quo.
Then he negotiated for a witness spot he should have had all along, iyam.
I'm glad he found his balance, he is an asset to the ecosystem.
But, the restivus would benefit by a new whale experiment.
IF people make sock puppets, hw's can be paid to find them.
Linear rewards kinda moots that anyway.
Getting back to the original design, without the ninjamine, and exponential rewards is probably not gonna happen, and the game has suffered for it.
And, again, I am not trying to embarrass anybody, I'm just trying to highlight a friction point that I feel has been holding us back all along.
Being outgunned 1000mv to 1mv is one thing, but to be looking into a 20k mv black hole that can never be escaped is another.
We are supposed to be community governed, but clearly that is not the case at this level of power disparity.
Not 20K, I went down to 4500 HP
15% of sellers is a good number. I don't think their sales put significant pressure on HIVE's price. I wonder if some of these people will buy HIVE again if its price drops significantly.
It's okay. I would like to see it below 10% though
Yeah, now I want to see it below 10% too.
This is some interesting data !
To be honest I had to read it multiple times, just to understand 50% of it.
Having started to post on Hive recently, knowing that there are enough holders for Hive is encouraging.
I am more of a passive reader than an active author. I plan to post more and stake all the earnings once I learn all the unsaid rules in the Hive community.
Well hopefully after a couple of reads you got most of it :)
Another fantastic dive. I don't think it told me anything about our top 100 that I didn't already glean just from being around for several years, but it's nice to see a visual analysis.
I mostly did it for myself. I enjoy data visualization.
Likewise. One of the very few reddits I still visit is r/DataIsBeautiful, and that's purely because I love seeing data graphed out.
I get a bit of that too at work - we are a bigger name in the real estate space and part of what we do is collect rental data across the US - so I get to see graphs showing current + historic rental prices for something like 200 metros across the US. It's pretty fascinating stuff.
That sounds interesting. I am very interested on the US real estate market. You should share some of your plots and analysis as a hive post :)
I think a lot of the data I look at for work is proprietary, so I don't know if I can show much directly, but I could likely talk about trends I see and find other supporting data. That would definitely be an option.
This is interesting. The visuals really help a lot. I see my name there thanks for highlighting it. So above the green line and greater than 1.0... these things are good to know about ones self.
It only means your current HP is less than what you have earned over time. That's about it.
Yeah. I've taken gains a few times over the years. I've only ever cashed out HBD though, never HP and never powered down. That's been my balance I guess.
Yeah I checked:)
I see nothing wrong with it. Your content is good and you are here. I think that should count as reward for the chain and us.
Just think about ownership. This is your blockchain too. The reason hive have any monetary value is because of people who hold the token. Since there is no fed controlling the monetary policy, it is all of us collectively who does that job. Always remember that you are part of that 156 individuals who enjoyed the rewards because of the other 844 individuals. You understand if those 844 individuals did exactly what you did, your/our hive will be valued near $0.0 now. This is not a passive aggressive technique just a training into blockchain economy.
Thanks, I appreciate that.
Yeah, if everyone rushed to sell every HP that they earned then the token would be worth nothing pretty quick. For the longevity of Hive we need the majority of the tokens to be locked up in ppls wallets to maintain the price.
We need tokens locked up in people's wallets and used to grow the economy through distributing rewards.
Yeah. That too! Inflation control and decentralization
Delegate Tokens and HP to Fallen Angels to earn weekly rewards!
Delegate | Join to the guild
😁
Yeah and your KE = 1.5.
🎉thanks
Wow
I only have 2k HP so I still need more to get to 14k before my data can be included
Feels like a hard task, lol
Also, you have just told us again about how important it is to build our HP and not just making withdrawals all the time
You only have 2K because you exit all your earnings from your wallet and only powered up a grand total of 0.10 since August 2023.
No surprises there huh?
Try powering up rather than taking everything out.
Oh wow
I thought claiming rewards is the same as powering up. That’s not a problem. Thanks
Also, I take some to boost my Forex account or invest in other cryptos but if that’s the case, I’d always power up my Hive on Tuesdays
Thanks!
Hello
I noticed you downvoted my post and I’m sure I didn’t do anything wrong
Is there any problem?
Yes. I know you can read. Please read Galen's comment above in bold letters.
Rewards can be given and can be taken away. Also rewards are not yours until day 7 at payout. They belong to common reward pool. I am sure someone taught you this hive lesson.
Also please do not respond to this comment or comment on any of my future posts. I have muted you.
So, after your logic of finding excuses to abuse people, and the reason given for the flags for more than one year and a half, you would need to flag @abh12345, to be concessive in your argumentation. But please don't do, he is a fine lad, whom I'm met in person. You could admit, that you hate people who have different views and who stand up for others like you started flagging me.
Thank you for your witness vote!
Have a !BEER on me!
To Opt-Out of my witness beer program just comment STOP below
View or trade
BEER.Hey @alexvan, here is a little bit of
BEERfrom @isnochys for you. Enjoy it!We love your support by voting @detlev.witness on HIVE .
Interesting for sure, a lot of people above 70 reputation, I hope your efforts in trying to get splinterlands players more active on hive will be very effective 😊I'll do my best to get in your overview one day lol!
Taking profit when you have large numbers isn't wrong I agree, but it's a two sided knife I see now, because you earn with upvoting other people too, while rewarding them for their good work making cool blogs.
So far, I've had fun reading other people's blogs from the other side of the world and watching their beautiful pictures.
These KE posts are very interesting my friend. The concept is very catchy and It wouldn't surprise me if it becomes part of the Hive lingo. Lot's of insightful discussion in the comments section too.
I'm happy to see a lots of sub 1 KE folks around here. I've been struggling to climb past the top 350 in terms of HP held. I hope I can make it to the top 100 one day with sub 1 KE.
The other day we talked in my comment to a Galen post, and I’ve continued reading opinions on that topic, which brought me to this post (of course, I read the most recent ones and the previous one to this). I’m very far from the 14k mark, but one day I’ll get there.
In the meantime, I’ve learned several things thanks to your recent analyses. I come from the Latin community on Hive, which isn't a very strong community in terms of HP, and seeing this data has motivated me to keep growing. In the future, I hope to be in that top tier. One thing I'm sure of is that many of have worked hard to be there, so I suppose I should thank you for your analyses. I may be small in HP, but I’ve grown in my way of thinking and I love that
Pretty cool chart, I’m in there somewhere but I’m not entirely upset that my name doesn’t pop up in any of the graphs. At least none of the naughty ones which is good :D.
This is a good bit of movement in the right direction I think, to try and guide people in the direction to increase their stake instead of constantly extract it all.