Omg all tokens on Hive are shit!
Okay, all jokes and clickbait aside, let's talk about tokens on Hive for a bit. I'm going to be honest, aside from a few of them (SPS, LEO, (posh :p) and very few others) I would never put a single hive into them. You may ask me why and yes that is what this post is going to be about but also about some other things and something I would like to help with in the very near future.
Although hive-engine brought us the ability that Steemit never managed to and everyone was very hyped about being able to create proof of brain tokens (no, not the very unoriginally named PoB token with a very unoriginal supply nor any real innovation behind it), it seemed that not many took the opportunity to create some real value behind them. There have quite frankly not been any that have caught my interest where I'd be "oh wow, I really would like to earn and invest in this token (with the above mentioned being the exception)". This might just be me who used to hunt altcoins back in the day on bitcointalk and became quite strict in terms of distribution and premines, etc, but goddamn do many of those tokens have really awful distributions.
Hey, I get it, it cost quite a bit of Hive to create the token and front-end and enable staking and all other costs associated with hive-engine (don't get me started on deposits and withdrawals still being 1% each way), but are you really going to give yourself 20-50% of the supply from day 1? and no, putting some aside towards "curation accounts" doesn't change the fact you are giving yourself an ungodly amount of a premine. Who would want to invest in something like that? I'm not dissing all of them, I realize some of them have some solid plans on what to do with the premines that would possibly go back to making the token and ecosystem better, but there have been very little proof of that happening with a majority of them.
You may say that the Hive ecosystem is too small thus not enough value has gone into the tokens to give them a fighting chance to prove themselves and you may not be completely wrong there. I do think, however, that if distribution was better more serious investors would have taken it more seriously. There is plenty of proof of that with LEO and how well it did and is doing and even more proof with SPS and all the other tokens involved with @splinterlands. It wouldn't just be @azircon and @onealfa interested in investing in them if they showed some more promise, there would definitely be more bigger stakeholders but also medium and smaller stakeholders if things would seem a bit more fair all around. I know I would be interested but that the initial distribution has been something that has pushed me off very hard.
Distribution
You know what would be cool? More airdrops.
Not many of the tokens I have looked at have even bothered doing airdrops aside from the ones mentioned, they all seem to want to give themselves a huge chunk while having the community work for them, there's nothing wrong with the other but the former I do not agree with.
It is one of the reasons I respect what @3speak is doing with their 1:1 airdrop to hive holders, same goes for @ragnarok.game and something I need to again mention without seeming like I'm making this post about POSH as well, to actually buy into your own token. Is that too baffling for some of you? Is it blowing your mind?
But acid, why should I buy up my own token I spent 500 hive to create when I can just give myself x% of the starting supply, silly.
To show us that you are truly invested in it and want it to do well? The old saying of "put your money where your mouth is" fits rather well here and I don't see many doing it. Just paying for token creation is not enough in my opinion.
Tokenized communities
There are so many ways you could distribute a new token to authors it hurts when I think about how no one does it so let's talk about communities for a bit. I think one of the biggest reasons why no one is even attempting to create tokens for their communities is either that they've seen how unsuccessful and uninteresting most tribe tokens are or that they think it is too expensive to either create one or having to pay 1% to deposit and withdraw each time. 1% may sound like a lot but deposit 100 Hive back and forth 50 times and you'll be down 100 Hive. (yes I know, the 100 Hive will keep decreasing thus 1% will be more like 0.099 Hive after the first deposit, etc so it's only correct if you deposit and withdraw exactly 100 Hive each time).
I don't think it's the latter that is stopping most people, though, I think it's mainly how so many have not been successful and I believe unfair distribution is a big part of it so it has gotten me into thinking. How come no one has used this immutable database we have to distribute tokens in other ways than "earn it or buy them"? I realize the way that one coin did their distribution on Steemit back in the day was rather stupid and reckless if you remember which one I'm talking about that only cared about what your reputation number was which determined how many tokens you got. Surely there most be better ways, though?
As many of you know we at @ocd run a community incubation program where we support different communities to not just curate and reward authors posting and socializing in their community but also monetize curation and moderation which is something unheard of on Reddit but made possible on Hive.
So how could someone tokenize these communities and at the same time make sure they are distributed properly?
One idea I had in mind that I would like to try out with willing communities, is to distribute the initial airdrop based on authors, commenters and voters on posts submitted to your community. This is something that would make sense on many levels and retrospective airdrops are becoming quite popular in the crypto space. It fairly rewards those that who have made the community more active with their posts, and engagement and at the same time those who have voted posts in said community to help it grow. Naturally the leader of the community must have posted there as well and spent most of his voting power there too considering that's the niche he is interested in thus he is running the community and same goes for the moderators and helpers.
It also would not be difficult to track this data and determine what kind of airdrops everyone would get.
Let's take as an example the Architecture community ran by @storiesoferne and what you would query to get the data.
- Who has posted in the community
- How many posts has each of these users posted in the community
- How much rewards in total has each of these users earned in the community
- How many comments has each of these users posted in the community
- How much post rewards has each of these users earned in the community
- How much curation rewards has any hive account earned in the community
Now all you do is look at the data, determine how much % authors would get, how much % comments would get and how much % curators would get. Remove some muted accounts or known and unanimous bad apple accounts like haejin from the airdrop (or accounts that are curating with delegations of others such as @ocdb (unless they agree to distribute the airdrop with their delegators)) and you've got yourself a pretty good distribution from the get go.
Now of course with a market tied to the token you will have to expect quite a lot of sell pressure from suddenly airdropping a ton of tokens to everyone but at the same time you don't have to airdrop too much of the total supply initially or have a higher inflation to reward those that hold on to their tokens.
I am sure that not only would it get more people interested in investing into such tokens knowing they may be oversold due to the initial airdrop and depending on the plans of the community with the token, but it also removes the "premine" from the equation giving investors relief that there won't be a sudden owner going rogue and just dumping all his tokens either instantly once it hits a certain price and liquidity or that they keep selling consistently over time pretending to be putting it to work or whatever while others may be buying a token with no future in sight and maybe the intention was to always just make the most out of selling it after initial buildup. This also gives the creators/owners of the community a chance to not just earn the token themselves but also buy into it to show their community and other investors that they want it to succeed. It is way harder to sell stake you've put effort into earning compared to just having given yourself 50% of the supply a year ago for having created a token.
Future plans
OCD would like to help communities wanting to tokenize with funding and distribution help but similar to our requirements to joining the incubation if you are a tribe (very strict most often due to the distribution) we would reserve certain requirements of what you do with the token as well. This can of course be discussed but we believe that starting tokens the right way will bolster the community and the ecosystem of Hive a lot more and we would like to be part of it in an advisory way.
If you reading this are running a community and have thought about wanting to create a token for it but aren't too sure how to get started or if it is legal in your location to do so, feel free to get in touch with us on our Discord. We are of course going to prefer doing this with a community already in our incubation first because we know a lot more about the community and owner and it would probably be best to give it a try first but we also wouldn't mind incubating communities that do this kind of fair distribution of their niche community on their own - that would have to go through our community incubation application channel in that case.
Please let us know your thoughts regarding this, though. Before you start typing out a really long response about a certain token I would like to let you know that I have not been all that up to date whith what tokens exist nowadays and how they work or have been distributed so don't feel like I'm calling them all out for being "unfair" in this post.
The main challenge for Hive-Engine tokens (as for most crypto) is one of utility.
For example, with play-to-earn there is no real value created by catching virtual fish. If there is no market for the fish and no tangible benefit to anyone from catching the fish then there is no reason for anyone to invest in the economy to pay the fishermen. So the fishermen get paid with native tokens that no-one wants, except for new fishermen looking to buy fishing rods to hopefully make a profit catching fish. And the token value goes down (once the rate of new fishermen dries up).
For hive-engine tokens the utility gained from being able to decide which articles get rewarded is pretty thin (in my view). It doesn't create utility, it just determines which users receive any utility. The articles may well have value, but it is hard to generate an economy for that value, particularly if the articles are published for free.
That said, there is a lot of potential utility to be generated by a community. I think the NFT space is now leading in that area. That's probably the way I would go if I were launching a Hive-engine token. Sell a stack of NFTs with each NFT linked to a (delegated?) allocation of the token (potentially varying by rarity) and ransack the NFT space for community-utility ideas that bring value to being a member of the community. Then have PoB as a means for communication and rewarding moderation / governance / ideas / development.
You explained Axie Infinity quite well there :p
Those are some great points and something I've been planning on doing with POSH PETS NFT soon. There needs to be utility from many viewpoints, sinks/spends and other sources of income than just printing tokens and waiting for speculators to buy your bags.
Soooo. You neglected to mention BRO. By far the most successful hive-engine token (apart from sps, but that in all fairness is becoming a multi-million dollar power house). We've held our price fairly well in the two years that we've existed. Not only have we maintained the balance sheet ($180,000), but we've given out fairly well in dividends. 1100 Hive to come out on Friday! :D Leo? Man, last time I looked Leo was down -99% lol.
Also, airdrops. We did that with cine. Dropped to Leo investors (which to be fair without the Leo community we wouldn't even be a thing), and the BRO investors. Mostly all of them spunked their airdrops away and me and a few others bought it up. I get what you're saying man, but every time I think about doing something good for the community it almost always ends in getting swapped out for hive. Utility is key, and we're going to bring that eventually.
We have future airdrops planned of course, but not until our front end goes live, and not until people "feel the POWER of the dark side!" lol.
I have a lot of Cine tokens but I've bought every single one off the market and didn't drop myself a penny. In fact, we started Cine off with no sell walls, nothing! The team got dropped, but that was it.
I hear old @chronocrypto is selling out his BRO if you're interested btw. Always BRO to buy on the market if you want it :P
I have heard good things about BRO but as I mention at the end of the post this is not meant to be a post pointing fingers at any specific tokens or tribes, it is more about the general ecosystem and how a majority of the tokens are either completely deserted or have only been liquidated by the creators/community and are deemed dead. Even though I am not that involved in the space I could count way more names of dead ones than those still alive and well.
So this post served more of a "how can we do better" and what has been the issue with most of them of which I gave one idea that most likely could be improved upon to make it even fairer and give investors a reason to add it to their spreadsheet. Some ways BRO has done their airdrops is a good step in the right direction, though, retrospective airdrops bring a lot more value to the place than just random/untargeted ones.
When bro dragon @acidyo ? (1000 bro holder)
when you least expect it bro
Would probably have to agree with you there in all honesty. We just recently moved to hive rewards instead of tribe rewards. At the beginning I was paying something crazy like 75% APR. A year later we were paying just over 1%. That's not a good look.
It's sad, you know. I'm hoping to switch that up a bit though. I'm creating something called the Dragons Den in our discord where people can apply for funding (for a percentage capital exchange). Perhaps that will help.
One thing is for sure though, is hive-engine needs more users.
The upcoming smart contracts will be interesting in that regards for guaranteed income streams that don't rely on you getting a number of their tokens to begin with but straight income through the contracts as well. Also interested to see what kind of tokens will be created and how they will work through HAF, i.e. what the costs will be and what kind of fees they will have for trading, etc, preferably the best outcome for Hive would be if they all relied on RC usage for smart contracts, etc.
If we could have a Hive Smart chain I would be really, really happy lol
Check out some of BT's latest comments I upvoted. :p
Does @brofi just blindly upvote anyone holding bro tokens?
Just noticed some weird votes so had to ask, doesn't really sound like appropriate curation if you aren't even whitelisting authors that receive the votes.
I was in a curation event the other day. I used brofi to share the love. Could have been that. Most (if not all) of the large holders are well established authors in the BRO circle.
That being said I've told them multiple times that we won't be voting shit, so if you abuse the service then you'll get taken off the vote. We do have a blacklist, yup, with one or two people on it already :)
Brofi upvotes for holding BRO is complimentary, so it's not an actual set in stone service. It's like something we do to help our community since we're not a tribe.
Always liked BRO. One of my favorite dividend tokens out there. Can't wait to see what you do with it in the future Ray. All the best!! I don't post on cinetv but it helps me to find some cool films and tv shows. Love it.
Thanks man! This year I'm trying to dish out as much hive as I can & become a hive whale in the process. Next year we're going to farm those splinterlands lands dry and share it with investors (we have a tract & $100,000 worth of cards)
Sexy. Makes sense. Hive is the daddy of all coins so it's better to build a huge stack of that. I would suggest you to have some kind of a "HBD pot" that gives out 20%. That way you can also take leverage when the market crashes. And sell a bit during the bull to fill your HBD stack again.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
If you check the brofund stack you'll see I've been doing that :)
Duh me. It's only common sense. xD
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I think the idea behind LEO is what makes it timeless. Here you sit, talking about business and $ figures, and that all has direct and undeniable relevancy to LEO. LEO is all about finance, investment, and capital gains and moves. The fact that any currency is tagged to anything at all on a blockchain, means that LEO itself is intrinsic to Hive as a whole. It's a piece of the whole puzzle, that without it isn't complete. That's how I view LEO when it comes to the long term and what will stay relevant and what won't. We all have our perspectives though and I'm not saying mine is necessarily right, but it's based in logic and reason and a willingness to accept the future is going a certain way and I'm merely along for the ride and must adapt to ever-changing environments physically, mentally, emotionally, and yes, financially. :P
Well. My logic is that I bought 13,000 Leo Miners, and 45,000 Leo. They were worth $150,000 at one point. Now they are barely worth $5,000 altogether. I can't honestly see more truer logic than that. Why does no-one talk about the epic losses of Leo?
The "Epic losses" of LEO are no more "epic" than the losses of BTC, ETH, DOGE, HIVE, STEEM, TRX, Etc... Delusion is what makes you think they are any different. Why does no one talk about the fact that you could buy in for $0.21/ea back last year, and then you could have sold for double your fucking money the next month? Hmm? Why don't you talk about that?
Oh, because you look at it like something that should have raised in value by this point and since it hasn't, you've taken "losses." You fail to mention how much LEO those miners and the LEO you bought earned you. Did you not stake it? Did you not vote any? Did you not post with the LEO tag? If so, then your stake not growing over time was your own fault, not the markets. If you didn't sell off when they were so high, you chose to stay in for the "losses." That's on you... lol
The timeframe of when a crypto did what means very little if you're actually in it to win it. Sometimes it takes years. If you sell your shit now, yes, you take losses. If you hold on, how do you know it won't be worth $1million where it used to be worth $150k, but went down below $5k, so you sold because you "lost." What if we're a little more conservative and just say it manages to reach back to $150k? Then you've gotten the $150k you speak of and then how much did you earn actually applying the asset? How much did the miners earn you in LEO over time? It seems you are blinded by fear that it won't ever reach that again, so you're looking to pull out. That's why most people go broke in Crypto. Fear is a hell of a motivator.
Hive is now only worth a fraction of what it was at one point. Should you stop using it and earning it and investing in it? Does that make logical sense? Or does the idea behind the currency mean enough to you value-wise, to stick around even though it's a fraction of it's past value? Should you quit posting and voting simply because you bought in @ $2.00/ea and bought 100 Hive and now someone could buy your 100 Hive for less than $20 or around that? The points you make about LEO are points that would entail all other crypto being worthless money sinks. This flawed logic makes no reasonable sense. lol
Let me guess its not about price it's about building
One thing I have to do is fiercely protect my investors, and if that means a big unpopular dump then so be it. It might not be about image for everyone else, because soon™ and all that jazz, but I roll with the times you know :)
not relevant to the discussion here but what an unfortunate username you continue using :p
Just checked out bro on leodex, not bad, it's doing pretty well (I mean well). Never did take the time to see for myself.
Well, unless there is a good use case of the tokens, then there will be barely a good market. And that is what happened with 3speak Larynx tokens, its useless for many who do not plan to run a node. So I think, along with a fair distribution, you should also plan how the token is going to be useful, that will derive a good market price. There should be incentives to hold them as well. I think, BRO token has done well, but I am also not very up to date.
Oh yeah I was thinking that these tokens would most definitely be used at least with curation in mind to start out with, just that in general there will and always are sellers of anything airdrop-like because they deem them as "free" and may not even bother finding out what they do. I know many did this with their LEO tokens early on for instance only to regret it later.
Having the airdrop completed in the staked form rather than the liquid form could help with the sell pressure to some extent IMO.
!PIZZA
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I guess but that would be something for the community to decide themselves, in a way it's more like a bandaid, you either have them power it down and earn more rewards while they doing it or buy it all up at a lower price cause they instantly want to dump it those that will eventually dump it either way.
Point is more towards the initial distribution being fair and rewarding those that made the community become what it is today in terms of posting in it while having those interested and who believe the community leaders will be around to take good care of it and/or have more plans for the token to trust with their investments.
It's kind of also that whole "what if satoshi were to return and dump all his million BTC" that many of these tokens are under as well due to such a big premine.
You'd think most people would've learned from the mistakes of steemit by now. :p
Evmos had and action based airdrop where portions of the airdrop got unlocked after performing certain actions. Having only a small portion airdropped at first and later releasing the rest for engaging in the community, powering up even more Tokens etc. could be a better way to manage sell pressure. That does not solve the distribution problems though. Having a community fund which reward users through lotteries, games etc. might help. I'm not an expert here. I'm sure we will figure out better ways as time goes and more experiments are carried out (even if many of those experiments end up being failures).
!PIZZA
Let me quickly share some thoughts here.
First of all, I agree that you need a use-case and a user-base for a token to be successful.
Remember Utopian? It's been missing from hive. We need a task/job community and I ve thought of the name 'hivejobs' or 'hivetasks'
We could start simply with a community here and see if there is interest into growing that.
I was also going through this post https://hive.blog/hive-118554/@hive-118554/images-and-ideas-challenge-hive-to-be-won-rdcrbo and this is my comment. It would be great if such initiatives could start their own token.
What would also be very useful is a token guide for a community who would like to move to hive :)
Thanks for your time
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I miss utopian and fully agree we should build a replacement
Is this something which we could use the DHF for?
Utopian only worked because there was 4.5M+ Steem Power delegated for free from STINC. There is no central authority to hand that out now.
I think you nailed it here:
This is the challenge across the crypto world in general but, keeping to topic, is certainly the case on Hive. We see tokens rolling out without much of a plan and even less action. Certainly, not all is going to succeed while things fail for many reasons, even with the best of intentions. However, it seems like we are not even starting with high aspirations.
Conversations like these are vital. The CTT guys regularly harp upon the founder's stake and how detrimental it is. Well, stands to reason it will have the same flaws on Hive-Engine.
We are here to experiment. Projects can try many different things to see what works. This is a time for innovation.
Projects that keep it, in my view, will have long term success. They might not hit on the first go, but over time, there will be winners there.
That is why I am high on Hive in general. Overall, there is a lot of new stuff tried over time.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I need to get back to listening in on the CTT podcasts!
The great thing about having a good and fair distribution early on is that you can feel free to experiment and innovate with the token later however you want because you have a solid foundation. That's been something on my mind with POSH as well and I'm quite excited to see what we can do with it in the near future, even though it is quite a unique coin where the focus will always mostly be to reward those sharing content.
Feel free to look at our tokens SCV is the current one we are running and the previous 2 have been working exactly as described and we have had zero complaints. Obviously we are not whales and get zero recognition but stats speak for themselves we have consistently outperformed all other tokens on hive-engine. Our defi token has more % of liquidity than any other which means when you want to sell you actually can, is there any other token that can do that without you losing out? Our SCV token is already returning an amazing ROI and will have liquidity added as the sps airdrops starts. It is already trading 2x within a week and its not artificial pumps our tokens don't dump.
You pointed out Leo and sps please feel free to compare both to ours.
With the way we have the new token set up we firmly believe it will outperform everything on hive-engine so feel free to keep an eye on it.
Also check out our update posts and read through comments to see investors thoughts
The person who wrote this post missed some great projects, but I think the general sentiment is that most projects really aren't that awesome.
However I would like to second that all hivebuilder projects I have invested in have delivered on their promise.
Hivebuilder isn't recognized because like you said, the investments are small, and the investors are also small time investors, so we get lost in the shuffle.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
The tribal tokens have some value for curation as they provide a way to give extra rewards to content.
Unfortunately, none of the tribes are making any effort to focus the content and they are all just generic mush.
The decision to raise HBD interest to 20% seems to have put the nail in the coffin of most HE coins. There were people who were moving their HBD earnings into HE to buy tokens. Now that market has gone dry.
You mentioned Steem. It is interesting to go to SteemEngine.net . That place is struggling even worse than HE.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
@irivers Your comment contains a link that is on my blacklists ❗ ❗ ❗ 1 2 3
@acidyo do NOT click on the link above in their comment.
Reason: PHISHING
Link: "steemengine.net*" => DO NOT CLICK ❗
More info: https://hive.blog/hive/@keys-defender/new-feature-phishing-detection-and-auto-reply
Comment 10% downvoted to make it less visible.
This message is self-voted to be more visible among others.
@irivers Your comment contains a link that is on my blacklists ❗ ❗ ❗ 1 2 3
@acidyo do NOT click on the link above in their comment.
Reason: PHISHING
Link: "steemengine.net*" => DO NOT CLICK ❗
More info: https://hive.blog/hive/@keys-defender/new-feature-phishing-detection-and-auto-reply
Comment 10% downvoted to make it less visible.
This message is self-voted to be more visible among others.
Actually HIve Engine changed this a while ago to:
Ah thanks, had forgotten about it!
Happy to see a new (old) face pop up in the LeoFinance post stream.
Welcome!
I've previously shared my thinking on what gives Hive-Engine tokens value, with the main driver coming from the fact stake gives you influence over how content is displayed within a niche community.
If you had a monetised offer and wanted to put it in front of prospective buyers, then you could do this via buying ad space on someone else's site...
...Or by buying stake in a tokenised community that not only gives you the ability to put your content front and centre immediately, but also build a priceless social rep for your business.
Money money!
I just think the business angle is hugely underrated and the fact we really haven't seen anyoneeee do this within Hive communities full of targeted buyers, is mind boggling.
Why?
Well partly the reason is like you said, because the token distributions and pre-mines make them extremely unattractive to anyone that understands what's going on.
But still, the potential is undeniably there if communities can get their initial distributions and ongoing emissions schedule fair and allowing sustainable growth.
I'm happy to hear that you and OCD are thinking about this too and trying to encourage new communities to begin on the right foot.
See you around!
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Hi @acidyo,
We are in the process of launching our own Hive token $DOOM for the FPS that we alreay have live on Wax and are launching on Hive in July.
( here is our first Hive NFT [sold only on Hive] so you can see that we are nearly ready for launch - https://hive.crypto-shots.com).
Good read. We would like to welcome more feedback from the community in order to make things the right way.
Our Discord: https://crypto-shots.com/DISCORD
Our talk on stage at DYGYCON 9:
Thanks!
Would love see how $DOOM plays out...
Where can I read more about the token distribution?
Ahhh!!! Introspection time. This goes me to think about why I invest in HIVE, LEO, SPS, and a very select few tokens from the Hive Engine. There are some common factors that influence my decision towards investing in them:
It is actually evident which of the projects and tokenized communities fall in the above categories. Selling all my shittokens for the ones that matter. :))
@acidyo
As many know... I am the #thoughtfuldailypost guy. The spreader of love and positive energy. The Building Positive Bridges guy... One Token I would like to highlight would be the LUV Token, created by my dear friend @crrdlx. Not a Token to "get rich" on. But rather, one that strives to remind us that there's more to being rich "financially".
We need more LUV and positive energy on the blockchain, as well as in the world. Check out @crrdlx and his other token hivebits.
Wes...
!LUV
@acidyo, @wesphilbin(1/10) sent you LUV.
wallet | market | tools | discord | community | <>< daily
Nice idea even if I am asking myself how many tokens are really required to make this ecosystem more functional. But anyway, it's real fun to see all these project rising up here
They can be a nice added bonus for those more involved in the niche and community, it is something reddit is looking at getting into but we all know how walled garden and not free from censorship and most likely not with the best intentions of the end users in mind they will become. Hive tokens can be different.
If we are wanting to create a tokenized society where we can create value for most of our actions then we need lots and lots of tokens.
I like seeing all the projects rising too.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I see what you say. Until tokens are a way to create democracy and fundraising, I guess it's a good way to create and amplify the economy
Yep. incentives are a great leverage for new communities.
And besides, I miss you curating some of my posts! I am trying to share some interesting contents 😎
Agreed, 90% of the already existing hive engine tokens are crazy in terms of supply and distribution and the projects are widely mismanaged, I came to realise this some time back playing around with tribaldex, it's quite sad that many are running on huge losses as most of them have taken a dive with no hope for recovery...
It's amazing to see the ocd team jumping in to support, for the most part of it, funding may be the most difficult part of all this...
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Most do not appear to even be managed let alone mismanaged.
How many have projects that appear to be proceeding forward?
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Was thinking about tokenizing Cross Culture in the beginning but I felt it was a big responsibility that I wasn’t ready to take on. I’d feel awful if people lost people money because I didn’t have the time or energy to keep building up the community.
Yeah that's definitely an issue long term. I remember when I came up with the idea for Hive pets and a curator volunteered to maintain it, just for the sake of the long term uncertainty I asked him if he would be okay if the community accounts keys would stay within ocd. (we don't have direct access to them but they were passed onto another curator who is still with us thus allowing the community to continue living on). So maybe the solution to that would be multisig to the community account.
Oh hell yeah!
I remember that whole key-sharing thing go wrong in an epic fashion so many times.
The feelings, sentiments and securities of today may not be forever. Even with the best intentions and greatest positive will in the world. It can be more of a security thing than a human thing.
I didn't even realise multisig could be used in this way, (I just searched it lol), therein lies another huge part of the problem, there's a heck of a lot of people like me around. People who love the DC and censorship resistant aspect but are sadly lacking in the technical practicalities.
As for the greater premise of the post, 'sellsellsell like it's 2008' mentality of many here, scuppers the vision of those heavily invested, (I don't mean financially) in projects, communities and tokenisation efforts.
I do 100% believe that mid to long term, genuine utility will be the huge turning point that sees a very different trajectory to most tokenisation efforts we have witnessed.
I don't really understand much about crypto yet. Things make sense to me only partially.
There is one thing that I have understood is that if the token doesn't have any valuable project behind it will turn to be a shitcoin. Another thing is how much the creators are interested in making it successful. If they just want to reward themselves without thinking about the community, the token wouldn't succeed.
I would agree with the points you have mentioned about airdrops. Instead of distributing them blindly on the basis of past reputation, the distribution should be for active users. These are the people who are really interested in the growth of the token.
I really think the underlying issue with a lot of these hive engine tokens is most are created with how they can make money off the token and not really build a community like a quick paycheck. But you get that with anything in business and life 95% don't make it 5% do and what you're seeing and mentioning are those 5% that are doing it right. They treat it like a business, they invest and they bring in capital to support the token price. There's no reason why all of these tokens couldn't hold value simply by running some type of ads that inject at least some form of capital into them. I personally don't like the dividend tokens I also feel like they are illegal in some sense and why wouldn't you just invest yourself instead of buying a dividend token and only getting a portion of the cuts?
bro did very well price wise, paid and still pays daily dividends and even gives small votes to holders. Oh yeah, we got a cine airdrop too :D
BRO is one of the best.
#BROArmy ❤️
#BROGAY 🥰
Some tokens have been airdropped, eg VYB got airdropped to POB holders.
But every single airdrop has been followed by a sell-off.
Do you remember Byteball, which was airdropped to all Steem holders and promptly tanked as everyone sold?
People don't value what they get for free. They only value what they buy.
Byteball was the one I was thinking of when I talked about the reckless airdrop based on reputation in the post, couldnt remember the name so thanks!
Though I would not say that is why it tanked, it got airdropped at the top of the market and naturally went down with everything else, doubt they airdropped that much of the supply for our userbase to make the biggest effect on it but considering how dumb the airdrop was I would not be surprised if it did cause a lot of the sell pressure. I remember some guy had like thousands of accounts he had bid botted to a high rep or did so after the fact to get more airdrop.
Didn't help that people like supermeatboy made 5K+ accounts to abuse it. He wasn't the only one that went extreme like that.
It seems that many of these coins are made based on luck. They think that working for the project to get value is something simple or automatic, as if the price of a coin comes from nowhere, lol (well, not that the US dollar has a value backed by anything, but historically it did before).
I think what's needed are users actually interested in creating a token with value and a utility. I don't know if the supply of a coin really is a definitive determinant of whether it has value (there are several coins with quite a bit of supply and they have a relatively high price).
When you say funding what do you mean? I am wanting to build a game I had 30k+ funds for Dev but UST collapse killed the LP and well, crashed the funds.
I'd be happy to do something like this with the token I created. It's cross chain and I made it that way so we could list on other chains and bring value into Hive to the game.
What do you need and is it something OCD would be interested in?
Funding as in paying for token/frontend creation fees, we're not a VC.
Oh wow. You posted a problem AND a solution.
I will be combing through the comments to see what communities will be taking you up on your proposal.
I would be one of those "small time investors" willing to come in with delegations and such.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
It makes me remember the airdrop for the VIBES token (Musicforlife community) and I liked that it was distributed based on the people who posted in that community. It had to be posted with the main community as that tag. Unfortunately, the community is kind of dead now though.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Yeah was a good start, need to think about it all in a more longterm based way as to how make the tokens more sustainable.
I'm sorry to have to correct you butt..... $FART Token isn't a shitcoin, it's in a state of gas and not a solid
I own some FARTs
HODL
that is not healthy
haha true, we are working on a solution for this though.... announcement coming SOON
all farts holders get sharts?
I like the thinking there BUTT.... its even better than that. Don't want to ruin the surprise. I need to brainstorm with you one of these days 😂
The future is $FART
When I heard the news I thought I shit my pants!
But it was just a FART.
Facts
I take everything back, and wish I could some times do the same with farts to avoid awkward situations.
😂
😂
Shitposting about shittokens. Nice.
9mins of your day gone for reading his shitpost about shittokens, haha...
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I reads comments too.. what a great loss.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
You mean both are shit😢
If you think this is shitposting you are not gonna like the next few gaming posts I am about to drop
Best token on HIVE is the non fungible being of each individual user.
After that we have LENM and LEN by @liotes which does quite good in terms of growing the value of the hole project. I also like the idea of @ravenmus1c she created a token with a very low supply and puts value into it by creating. And the use case of this token is to support her and her art. Tribe tokens... well I am a burnt child in that one... all of them I should have just sold in the moment I earned them as all others did.
I leave you a token that is distributed in a fun way: !PIZZA
<3 Thanks for mentioning my project.
It is pretty overwhelming to try and figure out all the tokens and what their purpose is. I have bought some for games and for listnerds but it's hard to know if they are useful or fluff.
Listnerds is definitely not fluff, it is new, so the value will go up and down for a while as the team builds, but it is backed by a team of long time online business investors.
The game ones are only really a good investment if you like the game. Although I have bought a bunch of SIM because they treat it as an investment token.
How are your scrapping videos coming along?
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I didn't buy Listnerds, I bought this CTP token to be able to vote more. Seeing as I don't use Listnerds anymore, I suppose there is no point in keeping them but they are staked so I will just leave them there I guess. The game ones were for dcrops and Splinterlands but I don't really play much.
The scrapping videos are doing okay, I guess. It depends on how you look at it. They earn pretty decent but I don't think they get watched much. It's better than on YouTube where they earned nothing, got not many comments and still got watched very little. Luckily I don't expect much. I think even the top YouTube scrappers have under 100K subs after many years so it's not like I jumped into a popular genre, plus I really don't know how to do all the polished video stuff yet. I did make a disclaimer though! Next will be an intro title clip. I might see about hiring someone with Hive to do something animated. I don't know where you would look for that though.
I am glad to see you are still around.
Hiring someone on HIVE sounds interesting, best of luck with that.
I am inclined to agree with most of what you've written here and it is exactly why the Scholar and Scribe community has hit most of your points so far:
The only way to earn these tokens is to engage in the community and give or receive votes that use the tag.
We have a SPK breakaway community frontend spun up at scholarandscribe.com and additional use cases are being discussed/planned.
We are partnering with projects on and off chain to seek opportunities and value for our holders.
And you didn't give 229,723,948,134 tokens to yourself as a founder premine :)
I gave myself exactly 1 SCRIBE and 10 SCHOLAR, and the same for the community account. That is all! Even the tokens we have given away as prizes have come directly from the community account or my personal earnings. The tokenomics plan left a small portion ( <5%) of each token that we could use to fund LP rewards, token fund, or whatever, but if the community decides not to use them in that way they will be left unissued and will be distributed by the proofofbrain rewards pool.
Scholar and Scribe may not be widely known yet but it will continue to do things the right way and build.
The rewards earned on this comment will go directly to the people(@acidyo) sharing the post on Twitter as long as they are registered with @poshtoken. Sign up at https://hiveposh.com.
@acidyo! The Hive.Pizza team manually curated this post.
PIZZA Holders sent $PIZZA tips in this post's comments:
hivecoffee tipped acidyo (x1)
vimukthi tipped acidyo (x2)
@forsakensushi(1/10) tipped @acidyo (x1)
solymi tipped acidyo (x1)
Join us in Discord!
This post has been manually curated by @bhattg from Indiaunited community. Join us on our Discord Server.
Do you know that you can earn a passive income by delegating your Leo power to @india-leo account? We share 100 % of the curation rewards with the delegators.
Please contribute to the community by upvoting this comment and posts made by @indiaunited.
Congratulations @acidyo! You have completed the following achievement on the Hive blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s):
Your next target is to reach 110000 upvotes.
You can view your badges on your board and compare yourself to others in the Ranking
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word
STOPgood points, not sure how to tackle it although. Many have mentioned the utility problem which I think is the biggest one as well as the points you mentioned.
I am running the LTC community, but why create a token? Maybe the original idea of having all sorts of communities with their own tokens is just really hot air. We have seen that it only works when you put in a lot of effort and you got the skills (LEO; SPS etc.) 99% of the communities don't have that (myself included). It's a huge hurdle to manage the economics and everything behind it...
Started writing a reply but realized it was going to become too long and already in bed on my phone so will have to write about it later:D there are plenty of reasons, though!
tomorrow's shit post bro. Learn to HIVE 🤣
I have been very bad at that, not to mention getting more active at posting first after the bull market...
I consider EPC worth investing in due to the fact it's bound to gambling and you are able to essentially be part of the casino's bankroll. You don't typically see any casino in the world offering people with less than anything substantial to offer (Millions to billions most likely, if those scenarios even exist) a chance to gain dividends based off of the losses of the casino participants. Sure, sometimes casinos go broke and lose all their money based on runs of luck, but it's highly unlikely. The house edge also gives a fair chance to earn elevated levels of returns before you even lose and it's more likely that you recoup what you put in and are in profits by the time a worst case scenario does happen. I look into aspects like "How long has it been paying for? Does it consistently pay?" and stuff of that sort. From what I could tell based on holdings of others, EPC has been paying for years on end in a somewhat consistent manner, but the APR% is through the fucking roof compared to anything else around in the long run. I calculated from other's holdings and returns, that they had received up to 126% APR and that if they had traded on the shifts in value even a few times when major shifts happened... That the earnings alone from shift in value would have potentially seen them return 300%+. I guess we all have our reasons for doing what we do, but when it comes to financials and the concepts behind them, I like to delve a bit deeper into each concept and as we all know we should do, only put in what I can afford to lose. It may not be everyone's cup of tea and they may not act as such, but the saying goes "You can't win if you don't play." and sometimes the least seeming to be successful, surprises you and pops off with some massive gains. :P Something to think about and I'm not sure if you've even heard of or seen EPC before, so I figured I'd mention it on the off chance that you do deem it worthy of investment or at least potentially something worth looking into deeper.
I think it's true most people buy something with the intent that it will just automatically gain value over time and be worth far more than they spent. I think this disillusion comes from things like hearing about Microsoft and the early investors in things like that, so people feel like "Oh, this could be the 'Microsoft' of this generation, I can't miss out!" and assume that any given asset could be "The one" and rocket them to a life of luxury. While this can most certainly happen, it's not usual and when it does, it's typically because someone has a much much higher threshold or bankroll to deal with the fear that comes from major dips in price, and they happen to ride waves that others long bailed out on. It's always fun reading posts like this, because I enjoy seeing how others view the Crypto world and the world in general, as a whole. Thanks for posting! I enjoyed reading it and the title was definitely clickbait for me, I've heard the term "Shitcoin" and "Shittoken" and just in general "Shit" tagged to something when people think they're god-awful and it piques my interest for some strange reason. :P
My land-backed ECOBANK token is a registered security in Colombia. (@ecobanker feed for all posts)
Lots of people say 'most tokens are shit' and they are not wrong. But it doesn't acknowledge that there is promising projects being built with crypto, and some of them are being built on HIVE.
:) yea, I am also not very impressed with any token.. I do stack LEO since that is given free almost.. I just delegate to leovoter and then move the LEO sometimes..
There are already so many crypto coins to invest in, tokens are extra to me..
It would be great if ocd supported the "feathered friends" community, which is slowly dying. There are already very few posts a day, many people have left, and those who remained in a depressed state, and there is no desire to post anything.
Maybe ask them why they left the incubation
Very informative and directorial post. Sometimes the trajectory of HIVE has to be shown with the pitcture perfect analysis. You did it well..Looking forward to see more of it.👍
Interesting thoughts, I have spent a lot of time this past year exploring and thinking about communities and hive-engine tokens. Great points! !PIZZA
We're very grateful for the work that OCD puts into helping projects grow. Your support instantly catapulted us into the limelight and the league is coming along nicely.
The catchy title got my interest. I was curious about the number of tokens available. However like you said tokens should have value - it should be all about utility. I guess it is just a copy of what is out there in the crypto world - lots of shit coins for no particular purpose but bought by many - for speculation.
I will share your post on ListNerds.
I can agree that most of the tokens lack utility and that is reflected in their lack of value. People will still use the tags to earn them as it's all extra income for no extra work. The game token at least have some uses. There's a fairly busy market in Starbits from @risingstargame.
Thanks for clarifying so much about all these layer 2 tokens. For someone relatively new to Hive it has been baffling.
The community tokens are a fantastic idea that I thought for quite a while might be a great idea for the Silver Bloggers community.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Thanks for this Article. Take a eye @fnvdesigns
Dude! ,,, a couple of good points, but this sounded like an OCD puff piece ?
OCD is not going to gain anything from this, as mentioned above if curation accounts are supposed to receive airdrops, they have to distribute them with their delegators. Social tokens linked to communities should become a thing and I wanted to point out how they could get off to a good start, if anything it is probably going to cost us some hive to help set these things up and pay people to crunch the numbers of who is going to receive how much by scanning the chain.
While it brings up a big issue I also wanted to represent something like a solution in the near future so that these tokens are taken more seriously by the broader ecosystem.
Thank you @acidyo for this informative post.
If I invest in tokens,it should be done judiciously.I didn't know it can be created for own earning purpose.
great idea!
!PIZZA
!LUV
!LOLZ
!PGM
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
BUY AND STAKE THE PGM TO SEND A LOT OF TOKENS!
The tokens that the command sends are: 0.1 PGM-0.1 LVL-2.5 BUDS-0.01 MOTA-0.05 DEC-15 SBT-1 STARBITS-[0.00000001 BTC (SWAP.BTC) only if you have 2500 PGM in stake or more ]
5000 PGM IN STAKE = 2x rewards!
Discord
Support the curation account @ pgm-curator with a delegation 10 HP - 50 HP - 100 HP - 500 HP - 1000 HP
Get potential votes from @ pgm-curator by paying in PGM, here is a guide
I'm a bot, if you want a hand ask @ zottone444
lolztoken.com
They lie still
Credit: reddit
@acidyo, I sent you an $LOLZ on behalf of @forsakensushi
Use the !LOL or !LOLZ command to share a joke and an $LOLZ
(1/8)
This is very true, not many tokens have a solid foundation and the distribution from day 1 is not the best, in order to show commitment, the founders should buy their stake from the market, not by pre-mining a huge amount of the initial distribution!
By the way @acidyo, we noticed that you powered up some LEO in June 15, thanks for joining LPUD and helping the LeoFinance community grow!
Just dropping by to let you know that the second edition is just around the corner, hopefully you'll join once again!
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta