My wife and I got to head out for a few hours tonight and grab dinner together, as we were able to have a family member babysit for us. It is pretty rare to have any evening time away from our daughter and hopefully now that she is getting a bit better with her foods, we can do it more often. "Alone time" currently means talking about renovation plans.
Over dinner - we talked bathrooms and laundries - risque.
But I am not here to talk about house renovation foreplay.
This is a picture I took from our table with my phone on a 5x zoom. Not bad.
There are some concerns that the @steempeak cross-posting function is going to lead to abuse and I believe that the concerns are valid and should be looked out for, but even with abuse there is opportunity.
Some of the potential abuses
Firstly, the concerns for abuse are generally surrounding the cross-posting of one's own posts in order to get multiple payouts on the same post. At the moment (afaik) the split percentage for author/ sharer/ interface is 90/5/5, so I could cross-post my content which creates a new post, and double-dip on my autos. This is very possible but also relatively easy to spot. If I see large accounts reposting themselves in this way, it will likely be met with flags.
So then, they will cross-post from their alts to abuse the autos instead. Yes, probably, and this is harder to detect. But since this feature is generally reserved for the best content, it will be pretty obvious when it happens again and again on the same author. While this seems like a good way to make some extra Steem it is also likely a very good way to lose a lot of autovoters. I encourage autovoters to make sure to check on what they are voting on often.
The third point is cross-post selling, which would be much like bidbots except instead of paying delegators, an account with autvoters on them could take a kickback for cross-posting someone else's content. Again possible, harder to detect, but once detected it is likely that the account will lose their autovoters due to their scammy ways.
So what is good?
Well, firstly when it comes to the abuse of the cross-posting functionality, it is pretty easy to spot what is a cross-post and where it comes from. When it comes to the larger accounts, more people will have their eyes on them anyway and the potential loss for losing autovoters is far greater. Those who abuse it are either very greedy, or very stupid.
But beyond the abuse.
Encouraging and incentivizing sharing is a brilliant move to get good content to spread. An individual curator who s able to do this well and build up a following can earn without having a lot of Steem Power to curate. Previously, curation was the main reason (from an economic perspective) to resteem a post as one could vote early, resteem and get more votes to come in on top - this is obviously more of an advantage for those who have SP and a following.
However, because this is targeted at sharing through communities, a curator can cross post relevant content into a tailored community and add value to the community by introducing good content and add value through a percentage of the post rewards. Without creating anything, the curator can earn a percentage and the original author earn a lot more without having to market themselves. This value adds to author and sharer, who could become a valuable content influencer within a community.
Visualize me cross-dressingposted
For example. Let's say I post this piece of content to the OCD community as it is my main community at the moment. However, someone might think that it also fits into the SteemLeo Community and cross-posts it on their account into there. While I wouldn't do this for my own content because I see it as double dipping from my own audience, it is up to the marketplace if they think it fits their audience.
This creates two (or more) instances of my posts that can receive votes, but the audiences might not have any overlap at all between who read the first, and who will read the second. This is content exposure. Not only that, the cross-posted content might not earn Steem at all, but could attract an SMT from the community it is cross-posted into.
Remember that we are here to empower users in many ways and that many of us have been begging for more rewards for good content creators. Providing incentives to share means that users who might not have Steem Power (or other SMT power) and do not have the skill or will to create, can still earn something on their consumption - with no financial investment. And, the incentive is to share good content that the community values. This adds another filter to the proof-of-brain mechanism.
Try adding more incentive to share good content
I would be quite happy to be able to have a larger percentage of the gains go to the sharer and further incentivize them. The reason is that they may have access to audiences I do not or do not have the time to share to, and essentially they become a part of my distribution network. It really is no skin off my nose and it is up to them to shill me if they want to earn more. I would predict that most of the cross-posted content isn't going to earn much unless it comes from a large account.
And then we have this. If for example I find content that I really really want to reward and believe that my audience would apprectiate it as much as me, I can cross-post it and that author is going to benefit heavily from the autovoters that I have worked very hard to gain over the last three years. The effort to gain them also means I do not want to lose them, so I do not want to cross-post undeserving crap, as it is not in my best interest to do so.
This is where a large account with autovoters would be very stupid to take payment for cross-posting, because once an auto is removed, it isn't likely it is coming back. I would have to be very careful as each cross-post will be a short gain for the user I support, but a potential very long loss for me as an active creative on Steem and someone who values my time, content, the community and my ability to earn into the future.
The bad and the good of it
Yes, there is potential for and very likely will be abuse, but whenever there is anything of value to gain, there will be those who try to scam the system. If you haven't learned that from being on Steem yet, you haven't been here very long, or you are blind. In society, these abuses and abusers are generally hidden away, but on Steem they are far more exposed and traceable in history, plaus there are mechanisms to deal with them directly, through downvotes, mutes, unfollows, loss of delegations and turning off the autovote switch on those who abuse the trust.
But, I believe that on this one, the potential for far ranging benefits outweigh the costs of short-term abuse as it provides a feather in Steem's cap that further differentiates it from the market place of the attention economy.
For instance, I am one man sitting at my dining room table each night after working two jobs during the day - I am not overly skilled at or have the time for promoting myself - but I do create relatively decent content that seems to add value to the community in some way. This means that you my audience become my word of mouth publicist and can benefit from doing so while supporting your communities and me in a win-win-win scenario.
I will say it again. This has the potential to be a game-changer on the internet as people will be rewarded for doing what they are currently doing for free - taking engaging content viral.
Taraz
[ a Steem original ]
I apologize for the even longer than normal post, but I think that this has to not only be addressed, but given a chance despite bad actors and other risks. However, keep a very close eye on the cross-posters you see and the values they get. Be curious and skeptical - click the link and see what is shared. You might be pleasantly surprised and find some great content, you might have a target to downvote.
Wouldn't be surprised if we saw a lot of old/inactive accounts share some shitty crypto "news" onto all relevant communities soon.
Been having a lot of discussions about cross-posting soon and hoping the good will outweigh the bad usecases of it and that Steemit will also implement it in the near future. As mentioned in the past we at @ocd have been hoping for something like this to exist since our community is so general, glad Steempeak added it. Planning on how to best empower more niche communities with cross-posts but needs some thinking to make sure it's the best method and the one that can scale the best.
Cross-posting this onto the SteemPeak community.
@acidyo and @tarazkp I am sorry to say that partly because of having life issues, and not being able to keep up, this communities, tribes and cross-posting thing is making my head hurt. I am, afraid, going to retreat to my WP blog and post via @steempress and use hashtags.
Frankly, one of the reasons I like @ocd is because I'm not boxed and because I have an eclectic range of interests. I guess I'll find a path when 3D life calms down to a panic and I can spend time working through all of this.
Which brings me to my final point: this has become such hard work - just keeping up - and it was supposed to be fun and a place to share content and engage.
rant over
Hmm, I was going to ask someone the other day to create some sort of infographic on how everything works now so it's easier to have an overview of it. We've also refrained from posting clear guidelines of cross-posting from OCD's point of view so far but I think it is about time to do so soon.
That would be very helpful @acidyo and before you do, and you'd like a "stupid" person to ask the "stupid" questions, please feel free to get hold of me via discord. I'd be happy to oblige.
lol, actually everyone is confused to some degree, if not by the technicality then by how to use cross-posts so it doesn't turn into abuse. :D
Bwahaha! Now I feel a whole lot better.
Thank you!
You can share and engage all through the place and if you have specific content for a community, you can find a group who have the same interests. The way it was doesn't scale, and while there aren't that many people here now, with not too many more it becomes unworkable.
Thank you @tarazkp, but this is my point: why should I
be working so hardspend more time looking for a place to post when, on other platforms, hashtags do that for me?Perhaps I got out of bed on the wrong side this morning. Need more coffee :P
Hashtags might do it for you, but so do the algorithms that the platform runs, which can be used to also make you invisible. Are you sure those algorithms are working in your favor?
It is a lot more manual here at this stage, some love it that way.
Well, right now, truth be told, I'm sure of nothing. So, time to stop wittering on, and get on with things.
I will learn and be less of a grinch. In time... ;)
Being a grinch is part of the fun :)
But, so is learning new things :P
Indeed. I was having a look today at the main of one, thinking if it was taking advantage of the many autos yet...
It is obviously going to get abused by some, but I am hoping that the EIP will help curb it a little. I also think that as it evolves, there will be better ways to use it that are harder to scam on.
Thank you for the cross-post.
Can't communities moderate content now?
To some degree I think.
Hey, @tarazkp.
I was kind of surprised to see how the crosspost actually looks—essentially a post to a link of the original post.
I wonder why it is that way rather than acting more like a resteem, just within the community that it's crossposting too. Same post, different community.
It would make more sense to me if it carried the same upvote and amounts regardless of where it showed up (similar to the way it happens when you look at the tag it's in, or your blog feed—same post, same accumulative STU). Otherwise, I can see it creating far more problems than it actually solves, mainly for the reasons you cite.
If you look at it through Steempeak it looks like the normal post with a label, but the other interfaces haven't introduced it yet.
It can't carry the same values as it allows a post from years ago be shared again. I do not think people should use this on their own content however.
Eso mismo leí en una publicación de tu hermano. Vengo de regreso despues de más de un año fuera de steemit y me encuentro con muchos cambios que no puedo asimilar rapidamente. Pero.. ¿Cómo puedo cruzar una publicación? No tengo idea de cómo hacerlo. ¿Por qué quiero hacerlo? Bueno, existimos muchos steemians, principalmente de la comunidad hispana, que desconocemos tantas actualizaciones que han llegado. Yo publico desde steempeak, porque me parece fenomenal, sin embargo, batallo cada día en aprender cómo funciona. busco aprender lo que más pueda porque de esa manera puedo orientar a la gente con la que estoy en contacto cada día. Sería muy amable de tu parte si pudieras explicarme o dirigirme a na publicación dónde pueda leer al respecto.
Gracias.
Thank you for your post that's led to these discussions, I was going to quietly fumble through it all as it was confusing me somewhat, not having much time and zero techno know-how but now I understand how someone could share a post I wrote some 2 years ago, I was really puzzled by that!
! ENGAGE 25
I have been playing around with this a bit in the past few days. I was a bit surprised by the way it worked... And thought it was just sharing the same post in a different community (which would address the problem that I have of wanting to belong to a few communities...), I didn't expect it to create a new post!
As it is, it isn't what I hoped for... But I hope that there will be a way to be able to post across communities (it doesn't appear that having multiple jobs tags works?)!
Nah, this is much more geared towards sharing other people's content.
I also think there is some confusion as many seem to not distinguish the difference between an interface and a community at the moment. That'll change though.
I am hoping there is a way to post to multiple communities using the same instance of a post coming, kind of like the resteem works to add it to the blog roll, where the "resteem to community" function exists. Not my area though :)
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Greetings @tarazkp you seemed to have stirred a bee hive here Lol
For what it's worth, I will not be doing any cross posting at this stage.
But I have a question.
If someone cross posts my stuff, will I be liable to also cross post their stuff?
Blessings!
You don't have to do anything at all :)
If they cross-post your stuff, you will benefit the most from whatever that post earns. As I see it, incentivizing sharing is a good thing, although there is the potential for abuse of various kinds.
!ENGAGE 30
Thank you for this and for your kindness Sir.
Our charity holds a sterling record of accountability and we do everything the straight and honest way.
Sadly the abusers will always be around and one just has to tread carefully.
You are correct that the incentivizing could unlock some growth across the board, but and there is always a but, a close eye will have to be kept on the procedures!
Blessings to you and yours!
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I checked one of the cat communities and found my old post there. I don't like that.
There will be more bad than good, but we can always add more troops to Steem Police and watching policemen taking advantage of policing.
Did you blame the cat?
I think that in time there might be the potential for an "opt-out" where people can't crosspost (@jarvie). There can be several other measures that come into play also as it develops.
At least, it is better than someone cutting and pasting content as there own which used to happen often and still does from time to time.
Out of curiosity. If your cat post ended up earning a lot (you get 90%, the sharer 5%, the community it was posted to 5%) , would it change your opinion?
I'm very interested in this discussion
Technically they didn't post his content there... They referenced his post, simply shared a link in the post. We looked up that link and showed the post and correctly attributed and forced the user to give their post rewards to the original author. So is this comparable to someone is saying they don't want their content talked about or seen by another group of people?
Is this like saying the NY Post doesn't want their news article linked by Trump on twitter because donald trump supporters will read their news and that's not who they want to cater to with their public news article.
Yes, it is an interesting aspect.
What is possible however is to edit the post after CPing, and make it look like something it is not perhaps. Yes, the history to the edit is there, but there is also the potential for taking payment on something that wasn't the original.
I have seen some users CPing and then editing in the original post to make it look like a new post. it does make it look nicer, however it also takes away the "warning" that this is a cross post and therefore anther instance. THey are doing this on their own posts of course...
No, because this feature will bring harm to the steem platform.
People with no reputation and no steem power will start cross-post farming to catch some cents. Not Canadians or Finns, though.
I see this becoming a big issue sooner than later.
They are doing that now, at least they will have some better content and that better content can earn as well? When it comes to distribution and inclusion, the idea is to open taps to those without reputation or Steem Power. However, I think that the biggest gains for this will be for those who put it into communities running SMTs, not Steem, as it always for a community to have attractive, relevant and decent content without having to only rely on their own community for it - which might be small to begin with.
Takes time to evolve.
I have been meaning to get to this for the last 24 hours - it raises things I've been thinking about too, though I usually go for the yay! positive side.
I think anyone autovoting should limit to one every 24 hours, BUT of course those using their own autovoters are going to take advantage of the system. I'm going to be super cautious of voting cross posts UNLESS they are old posts - like @whatamidoing's dead post iniative, they are great for evergreen rewards and to start new conversations in communities.
Yes, and that's what I like about it. I'll crosspost things I really thing SHOULD be seen by multiple communities, and I like the way we can drop a conversation starter or a reason for the crosspost on it - i.e 'Hey @naturalmedicine folk, really don't want you to miss out on this!' as a community leader.
Indeed - as responsible Steemians too, we want to model responsible behaviour. I'd be very circumspect about exactly what I crosspost.
I do think this has enormous potential, and I'm really looking forward to see what happens when we all get a handle on how it works. There will always be those who scam the system as you say.
I do love the potential for community conversations too - eg I really loved a post by someone 6 months back about making your own witchhazel, and it came up in the Discord server, so I will find it and post it to the community with a note - the author will get new rewards and we get to benefit from teh content we might have missed the first time.
Great post - I won't crosspost it, but will resteem it, and refer to it in my own post this afternoon. xx
:)
There is a lot of potential here and it is in a very rough for currently. Once there are edges knocked off and functionality added, it has the potential to add a lot of network value and give options to more people for earning, while giving content buckets more chance to fill with quality.
I am running through many comments on little time, but thanks for adding your thoughts :)
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I really wish people were not creating functions to cross post in their apps. When we post we are being rewarded so in essence we are being paid for our work even if it isn't much. We are basically free lance writers for these sites. So as a free lance writer if you write a piece and say Forbes buys it, you can't sell that piece to the New Yorker the next week. Not unless you are in some type of syndication but then that is a whole different set of rule and are normally owned by the same company or leased by the company that bought the piece and lease it to be used by another company.
I personally don't like cross posting as I believe because of the reasons I stated above it is wrong, but also why would anyone come here if they can find the content on multiple platforms. It devalues every platform it is cross posted on IMO.
Well, while I can appreciate the stance, the reason behind your example is advertising revenue and the magazine saying that they own the content.
Historically, a freelancer was a mercenary who would fight for whoever paid them.
We aren't freelance writers, we are free-writers.
A free-writer has no rights if s/he publishes here?
A free-writer owns whatever they post. A Freelancer sells it to whoever pays.
You do have a valid point that we are not really freelance writers and more of free writers, but I think that every platform would be better off if people wrote content exclusive for the platform and instead of cross posting they cross-promoted.
One of the benefits of Steem is that there is content freedom however, people can go anywhere. All of these platforms are on Steem.
Wait I was talking about cross posting on other platforms that are not steem. I thought the Front ends no matter which one you used posted to the steem platform I guess I didn't realize it was cross posting across the front end. Since when did people even start to need that, mind you I rarely use other front ends and when I do it is because I can't access steemit then will use busy. I am not into all the different apps and front ends that others use. I am so old school.
Because communities were introduced and it is crossposting into communities, not necessarily the front ends.
Why would you need to if it all ends up on the same blockchain. Yeah this seems especially abusive of the rewards system even more so than cross.posting on different blockchains IMO.
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I agree with most of your points @tarazkp but these rules apply if you want write a blog or share a youtube link.
For example, if I want to upload a skate video on Dtube and then share it with the Steemskate community there is no other way to do it than cross post my Dtube post from the dtube community to the Steemskate community since just adding the hive tag on a dtube video won't work.
Yeah, I can see this and I am hoping that there will be a way to "crosspost" the same instance to different communities, but I do not think crossposting for twice the rewards will benefit the author long-term - as any autos and support one gets might drop away very fast.
There is game theory in every step of the process here and, it is highly dynamic. Makes it hard to really know what is the best course of action as one has to consider the reactions of a decentralized community, all with their own incentives and agendas. I like it :)
Thanks for your fast reply @tarazkp.
We skateboarders really love to share videos instead of blog posts so it's not about the rewards, it's about making the Steemskate community active. If you take a look at the #Steemskate tag 9/10 posts are dtube videos. You are right about the auto voting man. People won't vote the same guy 10 times a day and I can't blame them for that.
I am pretty sure that Dtube will fix this though or else communities are pretty much useless in our case (skateboarders).
Yeah, I understand your case in point for this. I will assume that at some point there will be a cross-posting feature without the new post being created.
I am glad there is a skate community here :)
Hope so too my friend! I don't like ripping the rewards from the reward pool either. I am doing pretty great with just my daily upvotes.
Yeah, we've been active as a community for more than 2 years under the #Steemskate name. Here is our hive if you want to subscribe and take a look :
#SKATEFORLIFE bro!
Subscribed, thanks :)
! ENGAGE 25
Thanks for the tokens!
Here is my gift to you.
!SKATE100
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I have been taking this approach for a few days: /@simplifylife/communities-and-cross-posting-made-ridiculously-simple-for-everyone
and cross-posting my own stuff, just to get more eyes on it. My logic in cross-posting to a couple of different communities is to ensure I get more visibility, not to double dip. But with the way rewards are distributed to each of the cross posts individually it seems to actually hurt me more than helping.
Big accounts are naturally going to get more cross-posts from others. Smaller accounts are going to get even more hidden by the fact that their posts are only showing up within the communities they post in.
Perhaps a solution of funneling back the cross-post's rewards to the original post (like Resteeming does) would be helpful for creators like me.
I don't think this is the case, except from small accounts. I have found that the larger accounts using the feature tend to cross-post the work of others. Then there are curation communities like @ocd who are only going to reward cross-posts from others.
Maybe, but I think that a better solution would be being able to resteem own posts into different communities, but only cross-post someone else.
I resteemed a post from a community into my own blog, that seemed to make a difference in visibility (and get me some downvotes from people who genuinely did not like the post!). It would be great to be able to resteem to communities.
I haven't cross-posted yet, but when I do, it will only be someone else's content. I think the resteem to communities will arrive soon enough. This is all a new thing and it is good to be able to see behavior before investing into design fully.
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Dear @tarazkp
Cross-posting seem to be another trendy topic lately. I've found your post thanks to @oneray. Thank you for sharing your view on this issue.
Just like you've mentioned - potential for abuse is real. And I worry that cross-posting will be a reason for many new flag wars and people being downvoted left and right.
I personally will discourage everyone from cross-posting to our project.hope community. Such a posts (on steemit) look like spam. Nothing inside except of link to original source.
Upvote on the way,
Yours, Piotr
You do not seem to understand and perhaps you should look at it through the interface that introduced it, Steempeak. They aren't empty posts there.
It's me again @tarazkp
I'm not sure if this is the way to go. Only because one front-end introduced some feature - it doesnt mean that users should move to this particular front-end to avoid seeing "empty posts" (including cross-post link).
Anyway thanks for your reply. I appreciate it
ps.
I would need to ask you for little favour. Recently I've decided to join small contest called "Community of the week" and I desribed our project.hope hive/community. Would you mind helping me out and RESTEEM this post - just to get some extra exposure? Your valuable comment would be also appreciated.
Link to my post: on steemit or on steempeak
Thanks :)
Yours, Piotr
Mi apreciado @crypto.piotr, creo que educarnos y hacernos conscientes de los beneficios y posibles abusos, puede hacer que la integridad se preserve en cada steemian que use la publicación cruzada. ¿Has pensado que una excelente publicación que esté infravalorada sea un motivo para cruzarla? Tal vez hallemos una publicación que merece ser bien recompensada y no haya tenido la visibilidad para ser votada. Como dije en la publicación, esta herramienta de Steempeak es como un resteem, pero con beneficios adicionales. Es cierto que pueden existir abusos, pero... ¿Acaso no contamos con las herramientas para frenar el abuso? ¿Debemos desechar algo por tener algunos puntos que asumimos no favorables? La información, o mejor aún, la formación de steemians con los valores y principios correctos, evitará que se proliferen las malas prácticas a las que tanto tememos. Es cuestión de crear conciencia y las comunidades, juegan un papel importante en todo esto.
I wonder if there is an easy way in steemsql or on the chain to tell if a post has been cross-posted? Would like to see who's been cross-posting thus far.
Would be nice if @steempeak also added a notification of cross-posts the way resteems show today "this was resteemed by @x".
Yeah for sure. And something for @ginabot's creator to add in too?
I am guessing there must be as it auto sets beneficiaries. Perhaps you could have a chat with @jarvie and see if there is a way to filter.
That would be nice to see. I know the author gets a notification because it's a mention. But for other users to see would be really nice.
Short of making the cross-poster add a comment to the post when they do it which would also be annoying.
Yep, it might be a nice little metric on a post too for a "Number of crossposts" badge and a link to who and where. Might also be a good metric for an entire account, similar to number of resteems. While I know that some will abue the feature, I really think it has the legs to become something very valuable. You guys are doing a great job.
Nice thing about badges is that literally anyone can run them ... even complex ones like that. They can set up bots to watch the chain for certain things and then make it so it follows/unfollows users based on that info. Just set up the code. If it's useful we'll whitelist it in a heartbeat.
A user could make a badge saying "Tarazkp's Top 10 Commentators" badge
Users who have given me a .12 cent vote. Users who have said the world elephant in a post to me. Hahah .... random but still...
More likely something like users who have crossposted 10 times.
Will it be possible for example, if @abh12345 writes badge scripts that get whitelisted, to have a badge marketplace where I could add it to my profile and pay a little on it?
I am hoping that in time there will be a market place for analytics and a way to customize my own account configuration to try and improve experience of my audience (an audience - not necessarily mine) in a similar way that I could do on Wordpress and using the third-party plugins. I know this is some way off...
so for badges all that you have to do is follow/unfollow. So I guess for a script all he'd need to do is create a script that follows or unfollows based on your qualification. Pretty simple. You keep some SP delegated to that account so it can do the follows and un-follows
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I think you should get some ENGAGE for your treasure hunt and the awesome cross-posting data review I know you will deliver ;D
:)
Doesn't seem to be anything obvious in the DB. Was wondering if i could do it based on beneficiaries or matching post titles/permlinks but not sure at present....
keep cross-posting my content until you work it out... ;D
Will do when I find an appropriate community tag you haven't used ;)
Touché :D
:)
Answering my own question above, this looks promising..
{"app":"steempeak/2020.02.2","tags":[],"image":[],"original_author":"tarazkp","original_permlink":"cross-addressing-cross-posting","original_category":"hive-174578",
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I have just the last couple of days been messing around with cross-posting and communities. I started my own and have been fishing around for content for community page and others I relate to.
I quickly became aware of the concern I should have for my auto voters and your article gave me an idea. I have another account that has no auto voters, so maybe I should use that for the majority of the cross posts I am doing and use this account sparingly and very carefully.
Discord: https://discord.gg/5fPatJx
We discuss open, decentralized, anti-prohibition stuff and Steem promotion.
I think that this is a good option for those with autos at least. I think a few people with large accounts will do this to self-vote too, so keep an eye out :)
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These updates have not yet rolled over to esteem and I have been accessing the block via my phone all week. Things are moving fast which is good, but there is a lot of change to keep up with.
So can we still resteem or is that dead?
These updates are not on Steemit or through communities, it is a @steempeak feature. Not sure if other UIs will integrate similar, but I am guessing it will evolve.
Yes, resteem works and it will go into your blog roll like normal. Weird thing is, if you post in a community and want it in your own blog roll, you have to resteem yourself. The reason is that sometimes you might not want every post to be in your roll, for example if there was a helpdesk community where people asked questions, it could be that those questions were automatic "decline payout" and you would only want them to appear there.
thanks for the explanation @tarazkp, it's really hard keeping up with all the changes
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Thank you very much for you deep review of the new "cross-posting" feature. I have a mixed feeling about cross posting when not correctly and wisely done, especially cross-posting own articles.
You pinned down the problems very precisely. Hopefully this new feature helps to endorse good articles and makes them better known.
I cross-post your article to:
https://steempeak.com/c/hive-181925/created
Yes, there is a lot of room for problems, but that will also drive innovation to a healthier outcome in time that helps the ecosystem grow and diversify.
Thank you for the CP < sounds like a sex thing. ;D
Ha, ha . . . true!
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Oh, WOW, thank you! :-)
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Still a little unclear about "cross posting". Is it essentially resteeming or is it different?
So what would I do to cross post this Post into Curie or Dcooperation ??
Quite different.
For example,
A Cross-post creates a new post under your name that has a link to my post with a short description you can add to explain. Then whatever votes your "version" (just a link to the original) gets on it will be split between curators like normal (50%). Of the remaining 50% I would get 90%, you would get 5% and the community you posted to would get 5%.
It is going to take some development to get it right, but it is worth the experiment I think.
I’m already confused 😂😂😂
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No surprises ;D
It will get easier in time... supposedly.
What’s the difference between cross-posting and tagging multiple ’tribes’? Or is it different because tribe != community?
Cross-posting creates a new post that can get new votes on it. It also automatically sets beneficiaries to reward author/sharer/ community.
This is a @Steempeak feature so far.
I have no idea what you mean by cross-posting via Steempeak. Is it like resteeming?
I think that only if we resteem and show different kinds of posts we find out what the audience/steemians like. For sure it is not (only) what we see in trending.
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This is what I posted in another comment a bit before:
@tarazkp thank you very much. 👍🏻💕
I constantly stumble across tales of abuses that I would never even think of, (although maybe that speaks to the properties of my slow-moving thinkbox!!!) this leads me down a particular train of thought. The people who discover and exploit such loopholes and engage in nefarious deeds and practices, clearly put a great deal of thought in to exactly how they can 'game the system'.
Thus it occurs to me that if they only used these super-powers for good, they could create any number of creative, laterally thought up ways to help the community and likely be rewarded well for it too.
I often think of this concept when reading details of the latest super slick, sophisticated scam to hit the
world wide webuhminformation super highwayonline world, the planning and creativity that goes into such schemes is the stuff great entrepreneurs and innovators are made of... We do indeed inhabit a strange orb of incalculably unfathomable human creatures, huh?Damn I'm rambling aren't I? Was I rambling? I should bring this comment to a swift conclusion before I exhibit all of my strange intricacies...
If anybody reading this has any tips on how to remove an image that may or may not include cross-dressing from one's mind, please contact me on Discord (same name) or leave a message with my therapist.
Kudos on this pesky little thought bubble! A little thought goes a long way in the modern world doesn't it?
Good instead of evil - unfortunately, a lot of people don't want to or can't do the work it takes for one side of that occasion in the short-term, so they screw themselves over long-term :)
Bookmarking this as we're really glad there is discussion about it. Even though we haven't seen any abuse as of yet we'd like to make sure any issues are addressed before they arise i guess. It may all end up hypothetical or minimal but it's still worth looking into.
The first comparizon that comes to mind is Voting on comments is also a medium for abuse where people can write dozens of comments and upvote their own comments... but the good has outweighed the bad, even though users can hid votes inside of thousands of comments.
I guess voting at all is a system that allows the ability of abuse.
Anyway I'll go back through it and maybe collect some more thoughts more closely related to what was written in the post. Thanks for spearheading the conversation.
I am really glad that this feature has finally arrived and I think with experimentation, it could be great for Steem :)
I didn't really understand that this feature created a new post until this evening when I used it for the first time. I thought that it simply allowed you to share one post to multiple communities, and so cross posted my short story to creativecoin community as fiction is very much relevant to what they are about.
I can see the benefits of people using the function as a curation machanism, but I think that there needs to be some way to post to more than one community without replicating a post developed in the future.
I'm not going to be cross posting my own content again after learning how it works, but there are many types of content that legitimately belong in more than one category. Also, some of the long standing steem communities that are none genre specific, like powerhouse creatives or OCD for that matter, are good examples of communities that someone might want to post in while also posting in a genre specific community.
While this new feature really is a great leap forward I think some things need ironing out.
It has been a common error, and unless called out, one might not realize at first what has happened.
I think so too, and I think that it will happen. This feature is a bit different as it allows you for example to crosspost the work of a poet you find into a poetry community they didn't know existed - and reward them. It is pretty powerful.
I agree, and I can see how it can be used altruistically to boost a little known, or new, steemian's content to get more eyes on. Also, to reward them more with any autovotes you may have o your account.
As you've pointed out concisely in this post, it is a double edged sword as to people using it to abuse the rewards system... but I guess that's what free downvotes are for ;-)
Things are very interesting on steem at the moment, and I'm sure the peeps like @jarvie at @steempeak will figure out how to allow for posts to be submitted to more than one community soon.
I'm currently in the planning stages of possibly setting up a community myself.
we already did ... cross-posts
Otherwise you can always try posting your post in multiple places. I can't say how that will be recieved but I haven't seen many people trying that out. Just copy past the content and post it again to a new community.
Cross-posts allows you to post someone elses content and obviously just copy-pasting their content is a big no-no.
Hi @jarvie
No, I'm talking about a mechanism that doesn't repeat a post if you want to share your own post to more than one community. Cross posting replicates your post, meaning that there is two instances of it that any autovotes you have on your account will vote twice.
This would mean the same problem, two identical posts.
What I would like to see made possible is a way to post one post, at time of publishing, to two or more communities. In many instances this would be appropriate, as with a niche subjects that has a niche community, but the post is well written so you want to see if OCD will vote it for example.
Imagine a travel writer has a fantastic post, and they are a loyal patron of travelfeed, and also a member of one of the long standing communities like powerhousecreatives, plus they want to try it in OCD as it might attract a curators eye. They are stuck with the quandary of choosing one place to publish the post, when it is entirely appropriate for them to post to all three communities. There only other choice is to use cross post and then feel guilty for replicating their post, and maybe being viewed as a reward abuser. This happened to me yesterday, as I hadn't quite grasped how the cross posting feature works. But I stand by why I wanted the short story shared in both OCD and Creativecoin communities. It was right for both of them!
Of course a facility to post to two or more communities could be abused, but everything that is built on steem has the potential to be gamed to be honest. It's up to us all to weed out the abusers.
I'm trying to see the good in cross-posting, from the point of the platform. I don't see anything but abuse being introduced once again and again.
Upped and Steemed
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As I posted above in a comment. Once there are thousands of communities and SMTs, it can be a great way to pull in relevant content. For example, if you have a market Friday community, and come across content that might fit but isn't in there, you could potentially crosspost a new account in and get them a bump reward from the start using your own support network.
Thank you for clearing my muddle. I am still away with sketchy internet, so have not been able to keep up with all these changes. Steemit just upped and ran away from me. :)
Have a great Sunday!
Yep, it suddenly got more dynamic :)
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Why I don't tag hive in and when I visit my post their is
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ok.
As you know I made an error cross posting my own post and will not do so again...I'm in the process of redistributing the rewards back to others as I type this as per a post I wrote earlier today.
Someone I follow just cross posted one of their own posts and I couldn't help but to think it's abusive to the reward pool and I'll not be voting on it of course. If it continues I'll probably not vote on that person at all.
Yep, I would do the same I think, and if I have autos on them, I would remove them (the people I auto is a very small list) if continuing. I don't want to support people abusing the mechanism because they got some autos in the past.
Exactly! I wouldn't think it would take too long before the culprits would lose that support altogether which seems rather senseless . It takes time, effort, relationship building and trust to earn those consistent supports in the first place... There would be no foresight in taking the route that would wreck it all.
Yes, and I think in the early days there is the chance for error, but in a couple weeks, very little excuse :)
Agreed!
Thanks for the info. I’ll have to investigate further.
I posted in a new community that I created via Steemit.com but it didn’t post to my main blog. I figured out how to get it there too but it was a bit annoying at first.
It is weird having to resteem yourself!
However, I see the logic. For example, there could be a helpdesk community that answers questions, and you might not want what you ask in your main blogroll, so you don't need to resteem it. It allows for more choice in what you deliver to your followers. I think in time it will be cleaned up and evolve.
It's terrible. We shouldn't have to crosspost. The previous Steemit is better, anything posted on other dapps or communities shows up on Steemit.com and vice versa. They are making Steemit more complicated to use. 😢😢😢
I don't think it is more complicated and if someone is coming in today, it makes more sense. If there was 1 million posts a day instead of 25 thousand, the old Steemit wouldn't be useful at all.
Yes it will make more sense to newbies maybe. I'll just keep using Steemit and other sites the way I use it. No sense getting into all the complications going on. Hehe.
It will be case by case and hopefully will lead people away from autovotes. I personally do quite a bit of auto voting but receive very little in regards to my total payouts. I think autovotes are barely 5% of my totals.
Nothing is clear cut and you cannot make a "fit all" rule. Going case by case and acting accordingly is the best course of action.
Very possible and it is the way I will handle it.
I only autovote a few people (started a couple months ago) and I don't think they are the abusive kind :)
Yeah same here. Anyone I autovote I either know really well or have been following them for at least a year.
Again, it's case by case. What's stopping someone from posting from multiple accounts the same stuff.
Or spamming, which some do already. .
It's rarely about the tool. Honest posters won't abuse the system.
@knowhow92 tipped 100 SKATE TOKENS for this post!
Interesting new development here on steemit with the communities and tribes and the way posts appear or don't appear. We all want more exposure for our creative content, and of course more upvotes for payout. But there are some who just want their message heard and will aim to crosspost - the new resteem - as much as possible for exposure. We have been given a tool that could be used or exploited depending on the motivation of the user.
Still a bit confusing and messy for most but will settle down with use I presume. Thanks for the explanation buddy.
Congratulations @tarazkp!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following categories:
I'd love to see some of the big auto-voters review what they are doing. Don't just go for maximum curation rewards when there are lots of quality, under-appreciated posts out there. I do benefit from auto votes, but I'd honestly like more real engagement on my posts. We may be neglecting the social aspect of this platform.
I've not figured out this cross-posting feature yet, but I see you can re-Steem your community posts to your feed. I assume in that case they only count as one post.
Yes, so this add a community post to your own blogroll.
Cross-posting creates a new post and therefore, a new open reward opportunity. The benefit is, you can post someone else's content and take a small slice of the author reward, the community gets a small slice, and the original author takes 90%. It is a powerful opportunity to incentivize sharing and give a lot of exposure for authors, plus additional rewards.
Cheers. I will look at how it is being used and see where I can use it. Don't want to overload people with posts.
Yeah, I am unlikely to ever cross-post my own post as it opens up getting multiple rewards on the same content. But I might use it for someone else's. You can see through SteemPeak how it looks in the feed if you go to example, @acidyo's posts.
I will look at using it to add some content to my guitar community. I hope more musicians will join when they get support there.
Yep, I think there is the opportunity to increase visibility on the noobs who come in with great content.
yes you have a point about choosing what kind of post to be done in cross posting. This is a good idea but it could be bad as well. This could be abuse but let's hope it won't happen. Anyway I'm still taking too much time in learning how is steem changing now. For now some new features I have no idea about it. And your post helps me to understand what about this cross posting..
Well. This is interesting. I think i've spent about an hour reading the post and all the comments. I joined several new communities over the last day or two, and in (i think) two of them i crossposted my introduceyourself post. Maybe i did so with another of my posts, i cant remember now.
Although i had already realised through reading info somewhere, that a new instance of my post would be created and therefore potentially new rewards, i didn't crosspost it for that purpose, but simply to introduce myself (without spending another hour or two) crafting another post to do so. Also, the main reason i am wanting to introduc myself, is not for vanity sake, but for a particular purpose, to share and attract help/support for the Matrix-8 multi-level governance platform, which i have a very strong conviction will remove the need for the current corrupt governmental systems which basically rape the general population of money and health.
So, what do i do in future? I have several posts which i spent many hours writing which i think could be usefully re-shared from time to time in different places, for a very good cause. Of course what i could do (and have been doing) is to share links to these posts within a new post or comment, and i will continue to do that. But sometimes, not often i don't think, i would like to re-post some old posts. Perhaps i can set the rewards on the post to @null, or to a worthy party. For now i will refrain from crossposting my own posts until a concensus is reached on how this feature can be ethically used.
Now, i am new here, and still learning, trying to get my head round a lot of new stuff, but this post has brought up some other concerns that i've been dwelling on.
Auto-votes is one of them. When i first noticed two very quick votes on one of my posts i asked them not to vote on my posts unless they actually read them. No responce received, and they continue to (what now realise is) autovote all my posts (including i noticed the two (i think) cross posts i made, which made me pause for thought).
While on the one hand the little greedy part of me (and the entrepreneurial businessman part) which still poke thier heads sometimes, want all the votes they can get, on the other hand the now much more dominant authentic side of me does not want them. Also I'm fortunate that i have a small pension pot (which i paid into for about 30 years) so do not need to earn money any more, and as i live a frugal life in a cheap country.
Having said that, a week or so ago i delegated some SP to @curangel and @sbi and maybe a couple of others, and i see some of them are now autovoting my posts. So this seems like i am just paying to get my posts voted on. It all seems like just ways to get more money out of the pool. Of course it's still nice to earn on posts, or from delegations i make, then i can choose what i do with those earnings, and likely help others in need, or to pay costs of creating the Matrix-8 platform. What to do!
Also, these Engage tokens, and Beer, and COffee, and Pancakes and Steemitboard awards etc. etc. etc. i keep seeing, seems to me to be spammy auto comments again to take money out the pot. Perhaps i'm wrong and there is actually a good purpose.
I am curious. Please enlighten me.
Namaste
Atma
piss off.
:D
LOL :)