This is a post I have been pondering for a while. I have various conversations on other platforms and he is frustrated by Hive. I have had similar vibes from other people. I will generally defend Hive, but I can empathise with their situation, which is that for what they make it may not be worth their time. If you spend an hour putting a post together with pictures plus nice formatting and it makes you $1.50 that is a poor hourly rate for most of us. Meanwhile they can see others making $50+ on posts that seem no better.
I hope @dickturpin does not mind, but I am going to quote from something he wrote in a reply to me on Mastodon.
You're taking it personally again, and it's not aimed at you!
I cannot help it! I do promote Hive to people and feel I should counter negativity whilst setting realistic expectations. Others will see what he writes and he may be making seem worse than it is. I will not deny Hive has issues and will discuss that below.
it's been going downhill since the split from STEEM. Every hard fork seems designed to fuck the little guy; the problem is, the developers have little choice because if they don't make the rewards harder to obtain, then the big accounts that already earn 5, 6, 7, maybe even ten times what the smaller accounts earn will see their rewards increase to an extent that sees the gap between Rich and Poor 🤣 grow even further and that leaves them open to accusations such as I'm making only impossible to refute.
There have been changes to the basics of Hive, but there were actually bigger changes in the Steem times. Early on there were posts making over $10k if they got whale votes whilst I was lucky to make a few cents. I think at one point I needed at least 1000 SP to give a 1c vote, but the rewards curve made a whale vote worth much more per SP. Now I think it is fairly linear. I did start from nothing as a refugee from Tsu and only knew a few others who came from there. I was really active in commenting (over 54k so far), which got me noticed by some and in 2017 I went to Steemfest in Lisbon where I met more people (and more events since then). Some of those people have been kind enough to put me on their automatic votes. I am not relying on any single supporter for my rewards and nobody has asked be to vote for them in return.
I have seen various people say the whales try to drive people away, but is that really in their interest? Okay, so they can earn nicely from curation and some who post will get good rewards, but as things stand the $HIVE price is way down on what it has been. One thing that would help it is if people stick around and decide to actually invest some money.
What I have seen is big accounts 'adjusting' rewards. Someone may get votes up to $40, but then see a certain account remove a few dollars with no explanation. I assume that is some sort of way to spread rewards, but it does not happen to everyone. I have seen rant posts from people who this happen and it has sometimes led to nasty accusations flying around. I am not surprised such people left when they then got a barrage of downvotes, but attacking members of the community will no go down well.
I was thinking about this last night, and Hive is so hypocritical it's untrue. "You don't earn anything for posting on Twitter." but (Potentially) if I post in the style of Twitter (say 200 characters) on Hive, either of two things happens. The post will be hidden because there's little to no content in it, or HW is all over it like a rash for "Poor content." like I keep moaning: "Why should I spend two hours or more of my valuable time creating a post that doesn't even break the $10 barrier let alone the heady rewards I see of $75 for posts I wouldn't even wipe my backside on.
I accept that there can be negative attitudes to short posts, but we have @dbuzz and now Leofinance Threads. When you are getting automatic votes on every post then doing short posts may be seen as milking rewards. Dbuzz sets a default limit on rewards and Threads go into comments, so they reduce this. Arguments can be had about what any post is worth. The whole idea of this platform is that the community get to decide, but automatic votes do not care about quality. That is one reason I do not use them, apart from adding small votes to what @tenkminnows supports. I appreciate that many people do not have the time to manually curate, but having a big 'pile on' when a big account upvotes something does not help the spread of rewards. I would rather double the rewards of a good post that has only made $1 so far.
He mentions Hivewatchers downvoting 'poor content', but I am not sure that is really their thing unless someone really is mass posting for self-votes or tribe rewards. Other groups such as Hive-DR will go after that. I just do not think it should be vindictive. You may not like some person, but they can post what they like as long as it is not breaking the generally accepted 'rules' of Hive. There is plenty here I do not agree with, but I leave it alone unless they are attacking someone.
I think it's very unfair to give a response of: "Well, leave then!" that just demonstrates that Hive doesn't have the answer or just doesn't care. 🤷♂️
I do not want people to leave, but we each have to decide what is worth our time. Time is very valuable to most of us. I would stick around even if I made less as Hive is fun for me. I have previously been very active on other platforms that paid me nothing, but the mix of friends I have made here is great and I get a lot of engagement with my posts. I am sure some people are equally active on Twitter whilst making nothing.
I took this chart from one of the statistics posts by @arcange. Although Hive has a lot of active users I assume most are just playing Splinterlands. The two lines representing curators and authors are not climbing and are way down from early 2018. So it does seem there are factors that are hampering the growth of Hive. I have seen plenty of people join and then give up, but then others get on fine. I think it has a lot to do with engagement. If you just concentrate on rewards then you may be disappointed, but if you find a community of like-minded people then it could be as fun as an equivalent Facebook group, with the possibility of rewards.
There are no magic tricks to success on Hive. You could try chasing whales in hope of a vote, but you could be one of hundreds and their time is limited too. There are only a few whales and some do not even post. The numbers of dolphins and orcas are down on their peaks in Steem times, but slowly climbing now.
You can get noticed if you are seen to be adding something to Hive such as building a community or a dapp. I think it is crucial that we have the sort of quality content that would attract attention from beyond the current community, but that is generally lacking. 'Influencers' will tend to go where the big audience is. I keep saying we need people to take a chance on Hive and bring their followers across, but I have not seen much of that happening. It may be partly down to the perceived complexity of Hive, but tools like Keychain have made it easier and some of my less technical friends seem to cope. If you have a fairly big stake you can claim lots of accounts to give away.
I may be considered to be in a privileged position and out of touch, but I was once one of the 'small fry'. I have bought some crypto, but I mostly got here by sheer persistence. I saw great potential in the platform and wanted to be part of it. I want many more to come along for the ride, but we cannot be blind to the negative experiences some are having.
I think that will do for now. I welcome feedback from anyone with an opinion, even @dickturpin. He and I have different opinions on various things, but we keep on talking anyway.
It's not all about the money, sadly that's what people seem to use in defence of Hive when complaints are made:
"Ah, you're just in it for the money, then?"
"Meh, people want money for nothing; you've got to work at it!"
The conversation started based on "interaction". I demonstrated to you that on Mastodon, I could drop out a Toot with 200 characters, and within a few minutes, I can get not only lots of responses (Comments) but Boosts (Reshares) as well. On Hive the only constant interaction on EVERY post I make is from you @steevc
"Well! You can get paid $0.00 on social media for your posts or get paid for posting on Hive."
But that was the point. What I said totally debunks the statement of: You're in it for the money . How can I be in it for the money if I'm saying I get far more interaction on Social Media than I do on Hive? I'm saying my valuable time is far more rewarding on Social Media than on Hive. Now the interesting part is "How come you're more popular on Social Media than Hive then Pete?" so I have my own ideas, which I guarantee will invite hoards of "RUBBISH, YOU'RE TALKING OUT YOUR ARSE PETE!" responses, but I bet I'm close to the truth of it. People want to follow healthy accounts and be associated with accounts that gain big rewards; it's human nature. Who doesn't want to be associated with success in the hope it rubs off on them? I mean, it stands to reason if there are big voters on an account, then maybe if I get noticed in the comments every time, they might drop a big vote on me? It's the same mentality of following whales; people may not, in fact, like them, but the lure of a fat wallet is irresistible.
We all know the accusation that Hive/STEEM is a Ponzi scheme I would argue that it's more like a Pyramid Scheme with the whales, Orcas etc. at the top having to do very little while hoovering up rewards and I might add earning off what others do and those at the bottom struggling for followers, interaction and advancement up the food chain.
I know nothing about Splinterlands, but it's always cited as a success story for Hive. It's basically a Casino where you can earn big rewards, but you can also lose your shirt and underpants too! Now Steve knows my views on what I think Hive is or at least should be, and for me, it's not a Casino or, for that matter, a Crypto making trading platform, so sure, I'm happy to accept that maybe in a small area I might have the wrong idea.
I'm not saying I want to leave Hive or that it needs closing down. I love this "You have to work hard at it" statement everyone drops out; I literally wet myself at it because it's bollocks. I'm practically one of the originals joining in 2017 after Steve invited me; you yourself only joined a year before, in 2016. I vote every day, comment on lots of people's posts fairly regularly, and I'm insanely active on the @ecency Discord channel. The only failing, possibly, is I don't shove out shit twice a day every day to keep the activity levels up. I prefer to post something genuine that has value. Think of it like Kate Bush or Adele, they may not drop out an album for years, but when they do, you know it's going to be brilliant.
image source
Remember folks
Just because we disagree doesn't mean I don't like you.
I will point out that your quotes and not things I actually said.
I hope you read some of the other comments as you will see that money is not the primary driver for many. Of course it can attract people, but then they may find a fun community. On Mastodon or Identica you might have already have known a lot of people there from being active in the open source world. Hive/Steem has had less of those people so far.
Compared with many you are not actually that active here and what you do on Discord will be invisible to most.
Hive is neither a ponzi nor a pyramid. Those rely on people at the bottom paying in for those at the top to get paid. Hive generates the funds anyway. Nobody has to buy $HIVE if they don't want to, but if they do then it may help the price. There have to be reasons to build your stake that way and I can think of a few. It does get noticed if you make that sort of commitment, but it's still optional.
If you haven't looked at Splinterlands your assumptions may be wrong. You do not lose money as such there, but buying cards or packs can be considered a gamble.
I can't say that you are really 'doing Hive wrong', but maybe you are just not reaching the right people. I know others who are new here and post once a week to get big votes. That can be because they got involved with an active community.
I definitely don't want you to leave, but we each have to make the best use of our valuable time.
!BEER
That's not strictly true. If lots of Minnows start buying Hive like they are constantly being encouraged to when the price is low, that then inflates the value. It's simple economics that those with a bigger stake stand to gain more than those minnows with nickel-and-dime investments. That, in turn, very much makes it look like a Pyramid scheme. Desperate people see accounts gaining high rewards for very little effort, and so, therefore, they start buying Hive because their rewards are so small, and they, too, want to be on the next tier. Hell, it's one of the reasons I keep bitching about my Rep because I'm convinced one needs to be in the 70s' to start seeing the big bucks. 🤣
I seem to remember (Not necessarily by you) being told that the way to make connections was to be active on Discord?
If only I could bank all these different bits of advice, my HP would be through the roof. 🤣🤣🤣
!LUV
@steevc, @dickturpin(1/1) sent you LUV.
wallet | market | tools | discord | community | <>< daily
HiveWiki
HiveBuzz.me NFT for Peace
Whatever. I'm not going to say anything that changes you mind.
Maybe it's your attitude...
Maybe? Nobody likes a disruptive element. 😉
I worked pretty hard for what I managed to accomplish. Do you disagree?
I can't because I don't know your work. For an account that has over 5000 followers while only following just over 400 in return, you're clearly very popular; that's borne out by the fact you don't appear to have a single post under $100.
I also see you're one of the 2016 originals. There weren't many members then, were there? Still, at least we're engaging, which is primarily my main concern. The rewards, while yes, is an element of the equation, it's not the main point of the discussion I had with Steve.
Even following 400, only have ten votes to hand out in a day. Only so much time in a day. I do it all manually. Wouldn't be able to support 5000 myself and was never a fan of the follow for follow trick; prefer the organic approach. Would be nice to be able to support more but I'm spread thin. About half of my HP was purchased and still not enough. I don't post often these days but I am out and about, people follow just from seeing me around commenting I guess. Certainly not invisible here.
I asked though because you seemed to be confident hard work doesn't matter. Yet now you say you'd have to look first and couldn't really answer my question. And I only asked it because you picture says "Question everything." ;)
Not sure where you came to that conclusion from? There are a lot of individuals who do work hard, @steevc and @slobberchops, to name but two (Not keeping on tagging people as it makes it look like they're being picked on.) My definition of hard work is putting the time in, talking to people, encouraging people, delegating, and promoting others' work. "I work hard!" is a bit of a trap statement, TBH. If anyone dares to refute that statement, maybe by saying, "Well, you don't post much?" there's bound to be a massive bust-up. In my opinion, I work hard too. I curate a fair few; I delegate with what little I have to spare. I try and help others, especially on Discord; when it comes to the pitfalls of HiveWatchers, I promote Hive on Social Media, so much so I was very nearly banned from a Mastodon instance a couple of weeks ago for telling someone they could earn from their photos. (Can you believe some people dislike Crypto? 🙊) so what I'm trying to get folks to understand is I actually do put the time in. I do comment, I do vote, and I do everything everyone seems to think is the answer apart from buying Hive (although that is a slight lie, I have bought very small amounts on about three occasions.), and yet I'm really no further forward that I was in 2018 and don't even get me started on my Rep. 🤣
Oh, and it's not just me saying these things. There are a good few others. Even in the comments, there's one or two with the same thought(s) in the back of their minds. 🤷♂️
Yep, I work seven days a week, 8.5 hours a day, Monday through to Friday; then there's a house and family and a very demanding dog. I'm fairly active in the FOSS community (That's outside of Hive) and active on Social Media hence my statement of "My time is valuable" I'd argue that time has a far higher value than any reward Hive has to offer, which is why it makes me a little annoyed that a few peoples first line of defence is: "Ah, this is about money." NO, IT IS NOT. #LeSigh
Rewards do play a part in it, but only because it has to given rewards are part of the Hive ecosystem.
Ah, so you bought your way to the top? 😉🤣
I must admit, the term "Pyramid Scheme" came to my mind too.. 😁
But hey..
It does look a hell of a lot like it was modelled on one, at any rate. And then, what with every screaming "BUY HIVE!" 😉
😁
It is exactly that! Crypto comes from a thin air, there is no value to it. It grew as people began to invest in it and it slows as people take out of it. Small fish lose, and big fish win. Small fish will always lose.
Steemit and Hive are built on the same principle. We have 20% for HBD savings because if people will not buy HIVE, the value will drop. Big fish will lose money.
Just curious, if you feel it’s scammy like this why use it? Not a criticism, I dig ur stuff after looking just now and you seem pretty rad. Just curious though.
One word for you - people! 😉
True that :)
Just a couple of points to add to the conversation..
Hard work is no guarantee of success. It increases your chances but doesn't guarantee anything. You have to produce something that people want. You could spend hours to produce an outstanding article but if it is on a subject that not many people on hive care about then it probably won't receive much in the way of upvotes. As far as frequency, I don't think you have to churn out multiple posts a day but posting something twice a week will probably give better results (or quicker results) than posting once a month.
The problem is Hive just doesn't have the critical mass to guarantee that your interests will be shared by a significant number of people.
Of course, this assumes most people of Hive upvote like I do. That is, I upvote and comment on things that I like and/or interest me. To be sure, it can still be a challenge to find those things on Hive.
I realize that autovotes, whales voting for friends, etc. affects all of this but I guess I consider that an alternate path and obtaining those kinds of votes is more work than fun. Building a following of people interested in the content you produce can be a slow process. Especially on Hive where the user base isn't exactly skyrocketing at the moment. Engagement on some place like Facebook is going to be much higher right now because there are so many more people there. Until Hive gets significantly more users, that won't change.
Facebook though, will be more genuine because there is no money involved. Here, you get "friends" based on the power of your votes most of the time. Statistically, you get more engagement on your posts if your wallet is "handsome". And there are many comments that are incredibly generic to confirm it.
I don't know... I mean there are certainly some of those spammy comments on hive but they tend to be self limiting because 1) they don't achieve the desired affect and 2) they are likely to lead to downvotes, especially when left on whale accounts. And Facebook has its own problems with spam though it takes a slightly different form.
Also, while whale accounts may attract more comments statistically, that's true on places like Facebook and Youtube as well. The more popular you are, the bigger the audience you have...the bigger your audience, the bigger your account is likely to get (though that doesn't necessarily translate into money on Facebook...it certainly does on youtube though).
Facebook's advantage isn't in being more "genuine"...it's just in having orders of magnitude more users. That isn't likely to change quickly.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
That's kind of what I've said over the last few months this "Work hard...." is subjective. I feel I work hard but as you said. Probably nobody likes what I post. They do on Social Media though. 🤣🤣🤣
View or trade
BEER.Hey @dickturpin, here is a little bit of
BEERfrom @steevc for you. Enjoy it!Learn how to earn FREE BEER each day by staking your
BEER.The way I look at is this. If I'm going to go out and take some photos and publish them somewhere in any case, then why wouldn't I do it on the platform that pays anything at all for posting them. And sometimes when I post something better, the post is noticed by a curation project run by people with whom I have no personal connection whatsoever and the curators give me a big upvote.
If I hated to put together photography posts, I certainly wouldn't do it for $1.5. But since I enjoy it, I will happily take the coins.
Ditto. You summed up my thoughts about this perfectly.
I've been blogging since the days of bulletin boards (late 1980's) and in all that time I've never come across a platform that consistently rewards content creators like hive does.
The nearest thing that came close was tsu that @steevc mentioned but that went down in flames primarily because it had a single point of failure...it was centralized.
Hive was born from conflict by a group of people who have been around the block a few times and knew there was a better way to do things.
Like you. I enjoy taking photos and making videos which I put out into the world not for the money it might make but simply because I like doing it.
Complaints about rewards distribution is the oldest chestnut topic going. There will always be someone who would like more rewards but for what?
Equating posting to an hourly rate is quite frankly bonkers. We are not inventing a longer lasting lightbulb here or curing some dread disease.
We are having fun and if that process happens to earn 'any' rewards. Then be grateful that people thought it was interesting enough to warrant an upvote.
Don't do it for the money. That mindset leads to misery. 😂👍🏼
!beer
Well said. I have blogged for years too, but with a lot of it I got few responses. I do much better on Hive and it's not just about money. I don't take my rewards for granted, but then I have put a lot into this platform. I want to see more people get the benefits, but it's not a 'magic money tree'. I'm interested to see how it can scale up.
Hive is an amazing concept to begin with and much improved since we forked off from the other place.
The simple fact that rewards are available is incredible considering that we don't generally have ads running all over the place.
It is quite remarkable.
Scaling it up will be interesting to see how it evolves. Rewards will have to be more widely dispersed I would imagine? Plus as the rewards get dispersed the value of the token would increase as they become more scarce and sought after?
Let's try this !BEER thing again 😂👍🏼
That is a good attitude. Would you create a Hive post and share it on other social media to reach a wider audience? I think peakd is actually pretty good for presenting photos. The big curation projects do have a lot of rewards to share around, but I do feel they have too much influence. I know people can get paid for delegating to them, but it concentrates the rewards on less post. There are lots of voting trails that may reach a wider audience.
!BEER
I have shared my posts on Twitter on a few occasion but I very few followers.
Yeah, too many delegations to big curation projects is a bit of a problem because not too many people have time to consume an awful lot of content.
For a better distribution of votes, I think it would be useful to have the front ends develop better algorithmic feeds with notifications to motivate us to spend more time on them. When you don't have to go looking for posts interesting to you, you also more likely to upvote them.
Content discovery is still lacking on Hive. That is one reason I do #FollowFriday posts. We can each do our bit to help with that.
Should I share posts more on Facebook and such to make people aware of Hive? Not really been doing that, but guess it's a good idea.
Is a very good idea ;)
Any promotion of Hive on other social media helps :)
Check out POSH token on Hive.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I wonder if POSH will extend to Mastodon as some people are leaving Twitter lately.
It's entirely up to you. Do you think some of your Facebook followers would be interested in Hive? They might at least like to see your videos.
That's how I plant seeds to take down Twitter using hiveposh.com - I don't get much of the $POSH rewards but I was banned by Twitter for calling someone a boob... All my account followers and accounts I followed for curated news - gone. So I made a new account - use a cleared out cache on a diff computer and guerilla market this place. It's just the right thing to do. I never expect to make money here.
I've managed not to get banned there, but it's turning to shit anyway. I have to focus my energies where I get the most benefit for my time, and it's not just about money.
Yes. I am a big fan of going to places where I can get a real gage on crypto (amongst other interests) and not fluff, ads, or people trying to farm like they do over at reddit if they have tokenized karma. Plus all those places you can't speak about relevant crypto and decentralization subjects without some moderator deleting your post. I actually returned to Hive after being busy with Web 2 social promotion for @devcoin project. It's cool that you can earn here but I don't hold my breath. It's a good place to get read conversation by comparison. By comparison to Web 2 giants, I feel much more positive here. I still am active on bitcointalk.org by the way. It's because its a place that is still tolerant toward a lot of actual on-topic project related subject matter if you're in the right topic. That's how awful Web 2 is for social forums - I'm hanging on a SMF board running software from 2006!
I'm amazed more crypto people don't come here to discuss it as you would think they would prefer a decentralised platform. I've heard people getting slammed for promoting crypto even on Mastodon. I don't get why some of the open source crowd are against it, but there are many scams that give it a bad name.
Look at the value of Splinterlands though. Think about the Metaverse, Web3, and terms like "flow" "seamless" "interoperable" and you'll understand making so place seem not worth your time and seem like the public doesn't have interest in leaving places with censorship even when they are making truthful points... it's all a game. I assure you Ubisoft Entrepreneur Labs taking in a project called Xaya that's connected to where I hail from in my journey - Splinterlands (Steemit is where it began - very clever), and Axie Infinity for 5 months during COVID from 5/2020 to 11/2020 - you will see why this place is being PURPOSELY held back. All I have to say is I know from a few different experiences in my life that there's things I used to believe from the media and "social media" - then there was negativity and everythings a lie - and then came back my Social Sciences and Psychoanalyzing where I remain neutral about something perplexing. I look at why one would not want to spend time here. I look at why one would have interests in bashing people on a censored centralized platform with risk of bans. I look at a lot of sides of it, and I might come up with a reason. Usually the first thing I can come up with on a place that I need not explain to you the value of, obviously, is that the place is special - and there are people of influence and their financiers testing you to see where you prefer to spend your time. There's marketing and human research going on too. "Is there enough money people can make here to lure them away from using our echo chamber where we neg places like Hive or do we even need to because its pretty obvious that indirectly reporting crypto bs stories and fake news and constantly having fights and feuds we sort of drown out Hive and other places. My reason I'm back is the same reason I ended up her with @devcoin. I think about social motivations of people on both sides of the issue, and then reflect and try to make a decision. If I come back obviously it means I re-evaluated and re-confirmed my belief that this is a valuable place and we are still living in tested times.
Btw, back to the gaming I mentioned: https://www.playtoearn.online/2020/06/11/ubisoft-invites-xaya-splinterlands-and-axie-infinity/
And since Ubisoft was one of the few Google "Stadia" Cloud gaming developers and publishers that announced (but not specifically) a plan to transition people's accounts, items, and games to somewhere but not specifically where I ask you why they are having to do so in the first place? Google is shutting down its servers for gaming and accounts - showing that sure clouds rock, but they aren't serverless blockchain DLT with smart contracts and engines to run dApps (games). ;)
https://support.google.com/stadia/answer/12790109#zippy=%2Cq-what-about-my-game-progress-can-i-take-my-game-progress-to-another-platform
Ubisoft's moves are obvious.
That's not the one reason Hive is a valuable place worth keeping down for the meantime by someone with motives. It's just another reflection of why a place like Ubisoft thinks it's special. That Twitter account has 9.4 M followers. They have social pull to bring the masses.
Lol , great way to take an exit .
If everyone has this mindset then Hive promotion won't be difficult . We have to see earnings here on Hive as a bonus .
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I'm only 34 but I remember Seinfeld well enough to exit on a high note!
Honestly I was wasting time on Twitter too. I was aggregating social opinion in the space to make my own psychoanalysis of it. Something a Social Sciences and research analyst does for fun when he's on his medicine. But I realized I had been missing out on Hive since most of my dev team left since 2020 @devcoin @devtome ... When I came back I realized even though there are people here to earn it was nothing like Reddit when the r/Cryptocurrency sub introduced "Reddit Moons" ERC-20 tokens for the Karma you tallied monthly. That was a shit show. It was also a place where you were only moderated for actually talking about cryptocurrency instead of just making 3 word replies for upvotes to "Moon Farm"... It's not where the world is heading - its a game that makes people realize what they like after making them subjects of many different games from behind the safety of their Web2 administrative walled gardens. Even bitcointalk.org is a far less censored place than any of these Web2 trying to transition to Web3 platforms. It's all a game. This place is one I ended up on for many reasons.
I also share almost every photopost on Twitter. Unfortunately, I don't have the reach there to make a significant impact.
I have a fair few Twitter followers, but many of them are on Hive anyway and I am disinclined to use it lately. I've done loads of tweets about Hive, so anyone who would see them will know about it anyway.
We need some way of decentralized voting ? :)
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
That's called using your own stake. If you delegate to a big account your are centralising it and I think that can be detrimental.
Oh damn you are right lol .
I usually upvote myself . I used to run an engagement project though which used to upvote comments ( used a bot to calculate quality of comments ) .
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I never upvote myself these days, but small accounts who don't make much can do it. I want to use my votes to support others and I do okay anyway.
Oh no no , I think I didn't frame that sentence properly lol . I meant to say , I don't use vote trial or delegate to other projects for curation . I usually vote other posts/comments myself .
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I love this perspective
View or trade
BEER.Hey @markkujantunen, here is a little bit of
BEERfrom @steevc for you. Enjoy it!Do you want to win SOME BEER together with your friends and draw the
BEERKING.Makes a lot of sense . The one aspect of Hive is , it can monetize any activity .
We have seen tokens for running / walking / gaming / photos etc . So I do agree with you .
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
First problem I have with that is: viewing yourself as little.
Never do that. You're you. Not big, not small. People can also keep themselves permanently "small" if that's how they see it and choose to be as well, so you can't give "small" accounts special treatment.
And it sounds more like wanting to post for pay, rather than posting for an audience that might pay you. If you're posting for an audience, you'll get an audience. It's up to the individual to attract interest in their product. Nobody else is responsible for that.
Also, I don't see how anything is up to Hive. Who is "Hive" when "Hive" is doing something wrong? It boils down to each individual and their choices. For instance, I don't represent Hive. I vote for what I like, when I see it. Certainly won't be spending time consuming content I don't like; for the same reason I don't buy Burger King. I'm not going to go out of my way to vote for someone just because they feel they're not being paid and were able to use their keyboard. And how am I even supposed to know they exist? Impossible to know everyone here. If people want to see more people getting supported, get out there and support them. It's not up to "Hive".
Completely agree with your thinking.
A new user needs to be helped to understand the dynamics of Hive which may be difficult to understand at first but should not be rewarded if he/she makes little effort because this attitude could be counterproductive..
We do have to take on the responsibility of marketing ourselves. We can also promote the work of others. It's about giving as well as taking. I am largely on here for fun, but it's nice to earn something and I've made far more than on any other platform. On Tsu it took be forever to make the minimum $100 withdrawal amount. On Hive you can take funds out whenever you want.
I think, at times when people are saying Hive is difficult; what they really mean is, new.
New challenges. New things to learn. It is not "Hive's fault" when people refuse to take on something new to them.
It can be so deflating when you know what can be accomplished, prove it with your actions, and people still refuse to believe it; even worse when they start accusing you of wrongdoings yet everyone who put in the time and effort knows cheating gets you nowhere.
Thanks for doing this post. Good stuff to read here. A lot of perspective.
This post addresses some important things, and it’s nice to see someone that’s been around for awhile talk about them!
Downvotes are tricky to address. They definitely aren’t censorship, and I don’t necessarily think they are personal. Yet, they can really feel like it (especially to new people who are trying hard to be a good Hivian).
Ultimately part of censorship resistance is that any of us can go and downvote anyone, for any reason. Even if it can feel like the opposite, it’s actually a gift 🤷🏻♀️
There are a lot of nice initiatives that encourage new people to invest in, and stake hive. I feel I am able to offer a unique perspective on this, as I’ve been here 3 months and have reinvested every bit of Hive I receive. I do this because there ARE whales that curate and look out for newbies. There ARE people who invest in us, encourage us. That makes me want to add my little bit to it all!
If you’re new, and aren’t experiencing this love, I gently suggest not giving up! And if that fails, try a different approach 💚
Could there be more? Could we be encouraging people to build their accounts more effectively? To stay and be part of it all? Sure, there’s always improvement. But I’m not going to sit here and say that newBees are entitled to a bigger piece from the people who have been here for years! That feels spoiled and… well, just not right. I know people are working on this everyday, are helping build Hive in amazing ways that most never see.
So, is Hive worth it in my opinion? Not just for money, definitely not. I spend probably 50 hours a week here 🤣 it sure isn’t for money, or I’d be wacko
For community? YES, 1000 times yes. I’ve made a dozen amazing friends already, and I make new ones almost daily now! 😍 The payout is connection. It’s a uncensored space to be human. It’s being a shareholder (no matter how small) in something that adds value to the WORLD!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, and offering a kind but firm perspective on the bigger picture 😊
It sounds like you are enjoying it. Some people think we bigger players want newbies to invest just so we make more, but that's not the full story. I want lots more people to benefit from Hive. It's not a 'ponzi' scheme as such as the money gets produced anyway and you don't have to invest a cent if you don't want to. Building your account gives you more options.
Downvotes are just part of the system and I'd hope people could accept that they will happen. If you do fall out with a whale then there's not much I can do to help though. I would hope people can express different opinions without getting driven away.
Have fun!
!PIZZA
IMHO the "censorship" question tends to come up because it seems there are some of the larger players here who downvote anything into oblivion that doesn't fit a certain narrative. I've seen high quality political or social commentary get downvoted just for having an unpopular opinion.
I guess we can downvote for any reason, but in my opinion downvotes should be reserved for low quality posts and plagiarism, not for opinions we disagree with.
You've done a really nice post here. This is just a frank take of people's experiences here on Hive. While people's passion and love for something and their contents play a role. It's hard to deny the fact that for most persons (almost everyone), money was the Primary attraction to the Blockchain. Hive is not as much as a social media platform that one will enjoy spending time in. In fact, Hive was designed around the idea of rewarding users, so people's mentality when engaging here on Hive versus on other platforms is drastically different.
Newbies are not being given as much attention as much as they need to keep them from leaving. Even as a relative oldie like me, getting votes over 1usd is still mostly a matter of fortune. I know engagement is being preached here and there. But there is too much layers to engagements that it's becoming hard to keep up. You have to engage on the Blockchain level, and as most communities may demand, on their Discord/Elements/Telegram channels. The barrier to growth now on the Blockchain for most newbies that are just coming without significant financial investments, and that aren't able to build on the chain is just too high now.
Money changes things, but people do want to be social too. There are some very active communities where people discuss their hobbies like running, knitting, collecting, whatever. We need that critical mass of people that will make it possible to everyone to find their community. I find plenty to keep me amused, including music, comics and photography.
I always tell people to make it fun for themselves and then the rewards are a nice bonus that can grow.
!BEER
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BEER.Hey @zestimony, here is a little bit of
BEERfrom @steevc for you. Enjoy it!Do you want to win SOME BEER together with your friends and draw the
BEERKING.As someone who joined Hive in March 2021 with only three other people I knew, I have found what I consider to be success here on Hive. However, my definition of success may not be anyone else's definition of success.
The fact my content has the ability to earn anything at all is awesome! I've been active on traditional social media for 17 years and in all that time individual posts did not earn me any type of monetary reward. So the fact I can do what I've always done (create content) and maybe earn something of value is cool with me.
I also don't see what I am doing as a comparison to what anyone else is doing. I am running my own race, going at my own pace, and enjoying my journey along the grand adventure that is my content creation flow. I think doing so alongside the global Hive community makes this an even better experience.
Not everything any of us says is worth curating. What I think has value may not have value to others. The opposite is also true. Only we as curators can decide what we think has value and upvote accordingly. As this is an individual experience none of us has a right to tell someone else what they should and should not upvote or by how much.
These are my thoughts and may not be how anyone else approaches creating content. I appreciate the post @steevc. Good food for thought.
I'm happy to hear it is working for you. I do think these are still early days. If and when it does grow then people like me who just dabble in blogging may get sidelined by professionals, but I have built up enough stake to have some influence. So far the 'influencers' have not really taken much notice, but then the audience is small and they may be doing okay elsewhere. I keep saying it could do well for more niche interests. If a thousand bonsai growers moved in they could build something. I just hope some of the big accounts do not try to muscle out those who don't fit their image of what Hive should be. Having seen people give up I was inspired to write the post.
It will be interesting to see where we are at the end of next year.
!BEER
I'm beginning to think that it isn't for everyone. It is and always has been a long form content platform, even when it was Steemit. Unfortunately that means that most people will avoid it since they have short attention spans.
It has changed lately but I can't put a finger on it. Besides the drop in Hive price, I don't feel the same optimism or initiative on Hive that I used to feel. Communities seem to have slowed down, drama has gone up, and it just feels like the wheels are spinning here.
Idk how to change it, but I plan to keep going until it gets better or collapses entirely. This is still a way better place to be than other platforms.
Tell you what I like most about your comment; my take on it was that it wasn't written while wearing rose-tinted glasses with your fingers in your ears singing: ♫ ♪ "La, la, la, I'm not listening." ♬ ♩ 🤣 #hugs
There are short-form option on Hive too. I would hope that can be acceptable. Most people will not read a 1000 word post (like I wrote!). Hive should cater to all types of people.
While the blogging platform will always be important, Hive's real long term value is as a decentralised backend for the future internet.
Secure single sign-in to everything you need online with consumer portability of data between competing front-ends of everything from games to podcasting to blogging to finance.
That is the future of Hive - the future back-end of the entire new internet.
You and I are living this right now and whenever I have to interact with the legacy internet it is so frustrating, slow, insecure and annoying.
Most people will just see Hive via peakd, ecency, liketu etc. I assume thousands just use Splinterlands and don't even know they could blog with the same account. Having a single account for different purposes opens lots of possibilities and I hope people will find that out. I'm excited to see what else can be done with it.
Unfortunately (For me), I just see it as a blogging platform. 🤷♂️
https://hive.io/eco
It's an interesting post, dear Steve, and it makes me think about the reasons I'm posting here almost every day. To be honest, the reasons are the same of years ago when I started on Steemit: to share my contents about my art and my life in a cozy place where I can meet people from all the world. Before to start here I had a simple, normal blog where few times at month I wrote something, but just in my mother language. I felt the need to improve my english to open my way to other countries and so I started to use Steemit years ago. Like you, I met a lot of interesting users in Lisbon and I was sorry to miss the Hive Fest in Amsterdam, but I love to spend my our at day here, writing and reading contents and sure, not just to earn tokens. Just to know, I use other social media like twitter where I can't earn money,but I continue to use them to stay in touch wit people, so why I have to leave Hive just because I earn few money? (in my opinion, even few money are a lot of money more than I can earn writing everywhere). ^_^
I'm so glad you are Paolo stuck with it. I enjoy seeing your art in my feed. We need Hive to be about much more than just cryptocurrency. I have hopes that it can become a hub for artists and musicians who could sell their work here. Steemfest and Hivefest have had art exhibitions as well as musical performances.
hive has a long way to go before it is ready for everybody. but thats ok. the tenacious bloggers keep blogging, the gamers keep gaming and the devs keep building. perhaps when we have our own version of amazon we will start getting shoppers, or our own version of tiktok we will get more quick fix entertainers, who knows? but it is a long game to play and theres no point expecting anyone else to like it as much as we do, until the day that it becomes undeniable!
Agree with you, but just wanted to jump in here in case you didn't know: Hive does already have it's own Amazon. Check it out. Long term plan is to become a vendor myself
https://hivelist.io/
It's got better over the years. I think it is essential to have good mobile apps and there is progress on that.
Hive can be for everyone, but it shouldn't be anyone's dream to earn a regular income from it at first.
People in the crypto world already know this better than all of us, some things will settle down over time. When I look at Hive profiles, I see people who have been here for years.
Some of them took a break for a long time. Others have continued to write regularly.
But wherever they are in the world, I don't think they are people who live off the money they earn here. What they earn here can only be used as pocket money.
Especially for newcomers, and I think for anyone who is not a dolphin.
Investors have other techniques of monetization, as you mentioned, voting, trading, curation, and others.
But I don't think it's realistic to calculate the money that creators make per hour.
The money per hour is different in many countries.
That might be why we don't see too many creators from developed countries in Europe. But we see more of our friends whose dollars are very valuable in their country.
But I agree that it doesn't make sense to spend too much time on any social media, including Hive.
In conclusion, let's say that I hope everyone makes at least some income and makes themselves and their friends happy by eating a nice pizza with the money they earned from the free time they spend here.
I know there are people who have managed to live from their income here, but with the current price that will be harder. For some in places like Venezuela any extra income can make a difference. Hive can empower people, but it does take work to do well.
Where I live , people can survive for 500 HIVE a month .
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Is that in India? I wish I made that much. That's maybe £150 and that might just cover my food for the month. I suspect only a few people on Hive make that much.
Yes this is in India .
India is very diverse , in metro cities we would definitely need more HIVE per month but where I live ( suburb ) 200$ would suffice since cost of living is very less.
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Cost of living can vary a lot. I hear of places where people just make a few dollars each month, so Hive can make a big difference. Here in the UK things are pretty expensive, but Hive can still give me a nice bonus.
Very true . The problem I have seen with low income earners is that they don't have enough time for skill development at all .
Say construction workers or cab drivers , they work all day long and still earn only so much to support themselves and their families . They don't get time to develop any other skill to shift the job too .
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Thank you for this post. Even after a few years here, I do feel often like it's only been a few months. The key is connecting with new people with hopefully similar interests and as you mention very clearly .. bringing along some friends makes all the difference. For me, it's about photos and friends with similar interests in Light Painting. Maybe we all should try Splinterlands sometime. I did experience with Steem and on Hive many different things, positive and negative. Some 'Players'' here feel like they own the sandbox and have to force their way onto others. How to properly behave on Hive is to many new people not clear. It's hard to search for things here. Almost impossible I would even say. So before you know it you have a week of downvotes. Triggered by a single person, which is without checks and balances just BS and drives people away when not done in a humane bullying way. I have seen this play out in "Facebook Style".
It took me forever to get some traction here but today I am thankful that I do find the attention of some people more than before. Curation trails and automatic upvotes are comparable to a Patreon concept which I support, yet it does not prevent someone to post super short posts. I at least always try to compile enough content to make it whole and round for a quick but interesting read as well as some photos that are somewhat interesting. Yet I see the broad mass does not have much attention time. That's ok and we all have to adjust to that. Provide the content in eatable servings. Learning the right balance is hard I must admit. I still struggle at times.
Whist is the next important question. Instagram's success was taking out the fluff and fuss. Just the photo and only when you want to add a caption. I appreciate here that effort to make it more interesting is rewarded. To make people see it though seems another task. I am glad that I had the persistence to stay as long as it took to make it worthwhile for our little community here.. And that is not a monetary-driven motive since more and more friends have found their way here over the years. The rewards become the icing on the cake.
I find myself on both sides of the argument. To start the rewards were unregular and small. Today I am happy when I get attention for some Light Painters from a bigger account that may have followers. The persistence from the early days on allows today for slightly bigger rewards. I have no idea to make it fairer and a little easier for everyone. Thank you for keeping the discussion ongoing. If there is a better way we find it through dialog in a group.
You have always made great content here as far as I'm concerned. If it weren't for you I wouldn't have learned that light painting was a thing (now I just have to get back to doing it lol).
It would be great to see some kind of IG type front-end for Hive that takes the fluff out of photo posts. Leo's Threads seems close, but still not quite the same. Unfortunately I'm not sure we could get some people out of the mindset of "300+ words for every post". And I know it would end up with a ton of junk posts getting rewarded. More than what we see now? Possibly. But I also believe that sometimes a photo is worth a thousand words (or upvotes) and should be rewarded for it, even if it means some crappy ones get rewarded too.
I have tried Splinterlands and honestly I just don't get it. Maybe I'm too old lol. But it does seem like a good way to add value to the Hive economy.
Glad you like that we concentrate here as much Light Painting here as possible. We have an amazing community here and many of the people you see know each other in person. You can see that often in the comment section of the photos. When the English guys go out at night or the german crew drives to some destination together. Then share the story and results here. That's just amazing to see and what we love about Hive as Light Painters.
I always compare Hive to the wild west. There are people with a little power who like to enforce how they think it should be, but it should be about freedom. What is considered abuse can be a matter of opinion in some cases, but why not have short posts? Most people online never read long blogs or articles. We want a slice of that here. Things like DBuzz and Leo Threads could be part of that.
I keep talking about building communities, but I think that is the way forward. Light painting may be a niche interest, but if you can get people from around the world together it can add up. That is what the internet excels at. I grew up at a time when it was hard to find people beyond your own neighbourhood who shared your interests. When I got into computers I had to buy magazines to find out what was happening. Things have changed a lot. I think Hive could be the next generation of online socialising.
!BEER
Being here early on with just a handful Light Painters I have seen people onboarding but losing interest and i think that's partly because maybe they miss some easy-to-use and instant gratification. One could argue thats not Hive but I would love to see Hive having two layers. Call it the superficial Instagram layer and the 'In-Dephth' layer with much more description. That could widen the used case and attract fast-food millennial and generation Z users.
Maybe that could accelerate the wider adoption of the platform. The Wild West situation has its charm to find the gems here takes patience that the most need to "re-learn". As you describe reading a longer post is rare nowadays. To be the next-gen platform some things have to get easier. I am hopeful that all the different DApps will hopefully soon get more and more applications to serve the different styles of the Whatever Web3.0 used case is. We have it all within reach here. Absolutely agree!
Interesting times 😎
G
I think there have been a number of people who were building communities, but then they were scared off by the powers that be. It is pretty sad to look at what you earn and think you have been here for 5+ years and that is all your time is worth. Especially compared to some others who never get downvoted and make bank. Since we do get paid for our content it is hard to take the money side out of it. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying, it feels like I should be in a different place by now than where I am. Especially given my outside investment in the blockchain and time posting. We each give what we are able in terms of resources and time.
Who are 'the powers that be'? I know HW have scared off some. We do need to deal with abuse, but it needs to be done in a reasonable way. Some people just make mistakes, but will give up if they get a load of downvotes.
I don't think you can take anything for granted here. It is a pretty small community and some of us got lucky in who we got to know. It's harder to get noticed now, but people have to put in the effort.
I wish I could have made it to some of the HiveFests. I really feel like that would have boosted my following. Now I fear it is too late. In my opinion the powers that be are the ones who arbitrarily decide that posts are too high rewarded and they flag them. I'd be cool if they had some kind of criteria published that they follow, but when it is just random, it sucks.
Again, who are 'the powers that be'? I only see one or two accounts removing rewards like that and they may be acting as individuals. Isn't everyone entitled to their own view on what deserves rewards? We don't have to justify it when we upvote a post.
To a degree yes, but I also think when you get to the point where you can remove so much with such a small downvote, you have a certain responsibility to the chain. Similar to how you or I who have been here might point out to new users when we see them self voting their comments etc. There is also the point where other users get caught in the crossfire like users who retaliating against a specific user by downvoting all of their upvotes. Everything we do here has an impact on others around us whether we realize it or not. What we do creates ripples. Do we want them to be good ripples or bad ripples?
As I said, it's individuals and some of them can be anti-social. A bully with a big stake can do a lot of damage, as we saw with 'Bernie'. There are no hard rules on Hive, so people can do whatever they like. I would hope most of the bigger accounts have an interest in growing it.
A few of those Splinterlands players (on the graph), do post now, but it's generally Splinterlands content. Is HIVE closed shop?, I can only speak for myself that it's not.., but is only for the tenacious and dedicated.
People notice if you power up, don't sell out.., maybe that's bad for the needy, but that's how it is. Are all these quotes by @dickturpin?
The quotes are all from him. I'm definitely don't want people to attack him for them. He is a guy with strong opinions, but that should allowed.
I don't mind if Splinterlands players just post about the game, but everyone has more than one interest in life and I'd hope they would find other topics to engage on.
I'm not sure even you know why your posts get so favoured, but I suspect your big investment is appreciated by some. I don't generally check on what stake people have before I vote, but posts with lots of rewards get a smaller vote from me as I have to ration my voting power to support more people.
Haven't got a clue!, used to be $5 a post..
You're using your stake well. I know you were a bit cagey about getting on trending, but it doesn't seem to attract too much flack.
Yeah, I'm the only one brave enough to commit negative thoughts to print. LOL
This is a very interesting chart. Didn't realize splinterlands was such a massive part of hive activity.
If we're going by content creation, hive can't be for everyone as not everyone is willing to create content, especially on a very regular basis. But then hive has a lot of other things; blockchain games like splinterlands have brought in so many people so that's nice. There's also those who just came in to invest. If we're going by that then it can be for everyone.
In any case, It's great to see that the active users have increased, but yes it'd be nice to see a lot more activity posts and comments wise.
!PIZZA
Splinterlands is generating transactions from the battles and has many thousands of players. I am not sure how many have looked at other aspects of Hive.
I agree that not everyone is a content creator, but most people could post something and they can still earn from comments and curation. Hive offer opportunities.
!BEER
I think still couple of JSON are kept off chain . That would have tilted the chart much more .
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BEER.Hey @b0s, here is a little bit of
BEERfrom @steevc for you. Enjoy it!Learn how to earn FREE BEER each day by staking your
BEER.As I keep saying, it's a miracle that Hive works at all. There was a lot more spam and rewards milking on Steem.
People who want a more equal distribution can start their own community token based on identity verification. Here on Hive, it doesn't even need to be a separate platform. Let's see how much money such a system will attract.
Yes, it is a miracle. Apart from Tsu I've never earned elsewhere and I can do pretty well here whilst having fun. It works well as a social platform for me, but I had to find people. Going to events helped with that.
This is an interesting stance. I wouldn't necessarily try to extract an hourly rate from social media, though I suppose that's inherit with any tokenized system (time optimization and what not).
I'm not here for that, I'm more interested in a cohesive community driven social media (Mastodon seems pretty fragmented) that doesn't rely on doomscrolling for profit (see Twitter/Facebook/etc). I can't recall seeing ads on here (Ecency) which is a lot nicer than having some corpo overlord profitize content from users. I plan on building out some more curated posts, but for right now just trying to engage with the platform and get a feel for organic conversations rather than crafting content.
No ads is absolutely the best part of it for me! I hope the people steering the front-ends have things sorted out so ad-free is sustainable in the long term. Few people believe me at first when I talk about a social media platform that can pay you for content that doesn't rely on advertising. It's a truly beautiful thing.
We may see ads in some front ends as they have to cover their costs. Some take a cut of post rewards, but then we can use whichever we prefer.
Exactly!
Completely unrelated but, did you start up that drumming community in the end?
It's here. Not much going on so far. I need to do more drumming posts.
It's a start. I'm excited! Got a few recordings to share. In time...
LeoFinance is using ads and I don't see anyone complaining about it till now .
The recent news shared by the team said they will share it with the community itself ( LeoAds) which is a good news :)
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I've not noticed ads lately, but I'm not always on Leo. Any project like this has to pay their bills and needs to find a way to raise funds. I'm not totally against ads, but they should not be intrusive.
That's cool - I haven't tried out LeoFinance yet, but may check that out. Nice thing about them claiming to share the rewards is it should be easy-ish to verify those claims.
Doesn't PeakD have ads?
It has promoted posts, as does Ecency. I wonder if using Brave means I don't see some ads.
I'm sure it was PeakD? I remember people being up in arms about it. Maybe they don't do them anymore?
peakd still has promoted posts on the trending feed. I see 'sponsored' ones in ecency too. Which people were 'up in arms'? Just because one person complains doesn't mean it's a general feeling. The community is diverse.
As you can see it does not guarantee rewards.
An hourly rate is just one way to think about it. I just had people saying it wasn't worth their time, but value comes in many forms. Most successful people worked hard for a long time to get where they are and it was either because they were convinced they had something good or they just enjoyed it.
I've been in Steem/Hive for 3+ years, I started with 0 upvotes and without any knowledge about blockchain and crypto--I even had several hiatus in between.
I studied Hive, the code and the reality, there is really no guarantee of "compensation", but anyone will "earn" by growing with Hive. What worked for me is sticking to a community and engaging with like-minded folks. I even made friends in and out of Hive because of Hive. In the end, Hive is not equal to compensation, but simply a proof-of-brain, proof-of-stake, proof-of-patience. My blogging journey extends 10+ years, but only in Hive where I felt being a part of it instead of a siloed blogger.
Anyone can go to Tumblr, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, WordPress, etc., and they nobody will earn a following or subscribers without consistency and/or directly giving back real value to the people who consume their contents.
I did have acquaintances who got counseled by HW "police" due to their principles, it was sad seeing them go away, but that's reality, and we need to accept it.
Proof of patience, that's a good one. POP
It took me 2+ years, to gain a following because I was so introverted to engage with people outside my posts before, but tbh everyone likes to hear comments too. Some people might be "against" your perspective (but not on you) can be also positively impact on your understanding of things, and also you might win good friends afterwards.
I agree. Your experience mirrors mine in a lot of ways. Patience is required. That's always been the case though, anything that's worth doing takes time. Building, cultivating value. Doesn't happen overnight.
Most of us had to build up from nothing. If someone with an existing following elsewhere joins up we don't want them to get chased away. HW can be a bit blunt with people who may have made a mistake. They may come here with the wrong expectations for how they can earn.
Maybe it started by the original slogan "blog and earn," we might need to change that like what I heard in the HiveFest vids.
I'm still waiting for influencers to really jump Hive, idk when, but maybe they can drive more bloggers here. My friends on WordPress haven't asked me yet, even if I am open with Hive.
Wordpress users could be using the plugin (@exxp) to get their content on Hive too, but they need to engage here to get support. It is a matter of whether they consider the Hive community to be an interesting audience.
User retention is still a huge problem as well as active users ( besides the Splinterlands thing ). The graph should be going up or at least stabilizing at sustainable numbers ( not a few tens of thousands like we have now ). Don't get me wrong, Hive is still the best platform to earn magic internet money but it can be much much better for both newbies and people struggling for years to escape plebdom :)
Had to smile at plebdom
It's rough out here...
tell me about it :)))
Some are saying it's still too early for the masses, but I think we ought to have far more active people. We definitely don't want to be scaring away people who could be good for Hive. The 'police' can be a bit too draconian at times.
When it comes down to it Hive just isn't for everyone. If you are hugely fixated on the dollars then you probably wont last because no matter what you earn it will never be enough and you will snap.
It sounds corny but if you are here for more than the money it usually equates to better rewards because your interactions and actions on the chain are seen to be genuine and people reward not only posts but authors they like regardless of content. Hence auto votes.
I cant say it is the case for DickT but in the hundreds of cases I have looked at of people complaining about rewards and interaction almost all have an account that does little in the way of building their own presence and they just seem to expect the rewards to roll in.
It is hard, that is true. But people including ourselves have carved a niche and enjoy the place. I have seen new people do the same. As you mention above, interacting reaps dividends. I was an insane commenter when I started, I think I was almost top if you discounted the bots it helped me get out there. If you make 1-3 comments a day you will probably get nowhere.
It is hard but not impossible to earn on Hive as is easily seen in the feed of those who go for it.
Also, I tend not to assign much to the user number graphs for the simple reason that they, along with Crypto are cyclical. I know we would all like a nice trend line up or at least to be stable but people leave when the token value (and correspondingly the rewards dollar value) drops. They join when it is rocketing, tis sad but true
I think most who do well have worked hard to get there. I really am a nobody as far as the general internet is concerned, but I 'put myself about' on here. It was quite touching how many people knew me in Lisbon.
That's always nice. I think you are quite well known! Hive stardom is all that matters 😀
Social networks have ups and downs, and for the decentralised networks, which are the only ones I attend, the niche they build upon does influence what is going on. Hive is money in its foundation, Diaspora is tech and liberal policies, Mastodon is Woke, Hubzilla is geeky. For all that I would say that Steemit/Hive have been one of the best experiences as I have been in contact with so many interesting people that are not at the upper middle class tech savvy sort, and many creatives.
I do not think of the money at all any longer. To me it is a window for my art and a way to communicate with those who are interested.
I would say Mastodon is originally geeky rather than 'woke' (whatever people take that to mean). People come to Hive with different expectations. Originally it was lots of crypto folk, but creatives have followed them and now it's pretty diverse. I have always found most people to be welcoming.
As an artist you need to get your work where it will be seen. I am happy that I can find and support it here. I do not really want to have to visit lots of sites all the time.
Well geeky is also a pretty vague thing, but I think it goes for all the decentralised networks that a majority of the users are somehow into tech. Hive had a great influx of artist, creative, people from parts of the world that we normally do not see in the echo-chambers of other medias (including the tech-upper-middle-class of the federated medias).
But yes, I am and have been many places through the last 8-9 years, somehow it would be nice to actually be able to connect some of all those systems and accounts.
People need to look beyond the reward of the hive at first in other to enjoy the hive.
My strategy is to interact with those authors and communities that interest me as much as possible, doing this I have made friends, some followers, and helpful supporters.
Some people leave because they were not patient enough to do this or before they could even understand the ecosystem works.
Your post gives quite an insight, Steve, thanks for your thoughts! 👍
Sometimes I feel the need to express how I feel about things, especially when someone is talking Hive down. I do accept that it has faults, but I think it's mostly positive. The lack of rules means that people can do bad things, but a lot of that gets dealt with. I think people need to realise that downvotes are part of the system and not necessarily meaning they are doing things wrong.
Very good conversation .
I personally started posting on Steem as a blogger ( wasn't really much of writer ) but then after I starting programming , I shifted my focus on developing more than blogging .
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Not everyone is a blogger, but then there are lots of things you can do on Hive. I have tried a bit of programming around it for fun. Lots of fun things you can do with all that data.
!BEER
Oh without a doubt . Being a data analyst and python developer in real life , Hive data is like heaven for me.
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I remember the time when I got something more than 1 c per post. Those were the fun times. For what it was and what it is now - it is a friendship contest. If you have a small budget, you aim at curating with full vote power which equates to circa 10 upvotes per day. The friendship circle grows slowly. The mightier your vote power, the more friends you get, because more people would want your "bigger" upvote back. And also, you can reduce the power of the vote and spread joy with more people. So it is really a game of fortune.
From that, coming to Hive should be for fun and not for profit.
I'm not into just swapping votes. I reward what I enjoy and have tried to spread the rewards. Hive is a form of anarchy and that's the way we like it.
!BEER
Unfortunately, a swapping game is perhaps the only ticket for a lower pool.
I remember seeing one comment where a person complained that he kept commenting and commenting but the other person would not return a favour so he said he will stop the engagement as there is nothing for him. When the engagement works one way, you lose "donors".
Thing is, Hive is a complex system where each sees its own algorithm and finds ways that work. If it would be so easy, we would have more users who stick around. I would disagree with a form of anarchy because the control is there and the hierarchy is too.
There's lots of different interactions going on. There are active communities who support each other. We cannot rely on whale votes as there are not many of them and they are busy people. I only see a small slice of Hive and it's fun for me. Your view may be quite different.
As a newbie an average of a penny a vote is my current aim.
I'm happy to build slowly
Good luck with that aim. It can take time to grow your account, but there are various ways to earn here including games and investments as well as blogging. I just hope it's fun for you.
!BEER
The reward really sucks almost everyone I brought to hive have given up, thanks too tribes and the @hive-engine team and communities else here would have been worst than STEEMit socialization is hard on hive and there are so many tightening but the sad fun about all this is am already addicted too hive even if I barely earn anything reasonable I can’t leave
I get that a lot of people come for the money, but it can be fun too. You need to make connections with the right sort of people and not just the big accounts. Stick with it and good things may happen.
!BEER
Hive has so much to offer folks. Yeah, I think it is for many, but not all people understand Hive or crypto. Folks have not been educated or properly introduced to it. I know Hive is definitely for me.
There are some that will never really get it, but I think that still leaves millions who might. There are over 2 million accounts, but a lot less real people and only a fraction are active, so we have lots of potential for growth.
Just a quick response, it’s posts like this that actually get a hierarchical series of replies and threads below them!
Maybe people just want more conversation here than anything else?
Posts about Hive tend to get a lot of engagement, but this did really well for comments. I think we do need to talk about problems with the platform. Nothing is perfect.
I couldn’t agree more. I’m totally engrossed in Hive but then there are other platforms where you can get different variations of engagement.
What I like about Hive is that a post will always earn something even if tiny! There is a sense of community here.
But I do get the argument, it could be a lot bigger.
Hive is tiny for now, at least for active users. I want to see if it can scale up, but some people feel it's not the right time yet.
True
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