Community Proposal #8
The purpose of this proposal is to adjust Brawl rewards to promote advancement to higher tiers and prevent stagnation by guilds that find it more beneficial to dominate lower tier Brawls for higher rewards payouts. This proposal aims to accomplish this goal by making the following changes:
First, remove the Reward Reduction for Brawl tiers with less than 10 guilds participating. This should make advancing to tier 5 Brawls much more viable for top guilds that are currently disincentivized from doing so as they get higher rewards by dominating tier 4 Brawls.
Secondly the top 3 bonus rewards boost for Crowns and Merits will be removed. The top 3 bonus for SPS rewards will remain.
If this proposal passes then the suggested changes should be made to the Brawl rewards structure with a high sense of urgency as this is currently creating a compounding problem with preventing guild advancement at all levels.
This proposal is based on a draft submitted by @schachoberhessen and reviewed by the SPS DAO community in the Discord forums. Post rewards are set to payout to @schachoberhessen.
Should we update this proposal to only remove the top 3 boost for crowns and merits while maintaining the boost for SPS rewards? Drop a comment if that would swing your support. From the feedback I've gathered so far, it seems the crowns and merits boost it's what is keeping guilds from advancing.
what keeps guilds from advancing is the fray structure, not the incentives - as I elaborate in a reply to the proposal; as a T2 guild officer responsible for brawls I am strongly against this proposal. Not only this is "rich get richer" proposal, it may destroy many smaller or mid-tier guilds. Whoever thought of this proposal is not a brawl office in a lower tier guild. Big NO. Do you want to kill many small fish and dolphin guilds, so that only whales guilds remain? Do you think this is good for the long-term health of brawls as the game mode?
Sorry but I don't get your point.
To remove the Top-3-Bonus will especially help the smaller or mid-tier-guilds as they will get more rewards, this change will take away rewards from the top-3-guilds and bring it to the guild from place 4 on.
Maybe you don't understand how it works, so let me explain you:
At the moment the rewards are shared into two pots:
With this this change Crowns and Merrits will be shared:
in fact guilds who finish from place 4 to 10 will receive 14% more crowns and merrits than they get now at the expense of the top 3 guilds.
Competing in T2 is not so rewarding but we are stuck because of T3 frays. Despite the frustration we still do that and the rewards for working hard and being in top 3 keep at least some motivation going. The proposal which will primarily benefit whales will kill whatever little motivation we have left. Many guilds in T2 do not work hard, do not fill many frays, and only use lowest level cards. I suspect some of those are alt accounts. Why would you redistribute any resources from the T2 guild which work hard to make top 3? We are already getting like 15 SPS and 2000 merits per brawl. Do you want to decrease this little amount even further? The proposal may sound good in theory but it is not created by people who actually have good experience competing in lower tier brawls (T2) and who do not appreciate the current reality of brawls in Splinterlands.
"We are already getting like 15 SPS and 2000 merits per brawl."
So it would be a good idea to move to tier 3 as their was your result 19,661 SPS and 2111 merits and the merits (and also the crowns) would increase by roughly 14% when the top-3-bonus is shared between all guilds.
"The proposal which will primarily benefit whales"
Exactly not, the most whales are in top-guilds who reach regularly top-3-positions, so they will even loose rewards but I hope that they see the big picture.
"Many guilds in T2 do not work hard, do not fill many frays, and only use lowest level cards."
Have you spoken to them or how can you be so sure? Don't you think your statement is arrogant towards smaller guilds in Tier 2, who are usually trying to do their best?
Unlike you, I play in T2 and I see who we face. Many guilds do not fill frays and many have level 1 cards in Silver frays. The irony about arrogant statement...
Why didn't you mention out T2 results? Playing in T3 we got the LOWEST merits relative to our T2 brawls. The SPS was comparable but certainly not the highest.
"Why didn't you mention out T2 results? Playing in T3 we got the LOWEST merits relative to our T2 brawls. The SPS was comparable but certainly not the highest."
Exactly this we want change buy removing the top-3-bonus for crownes and merits.
A guild in Tier 3 should always get more merrits than a guild in Tier 2.
So with taking away the top-3-bonus for crownes and merits the first in Tier 2 get significant less crownes and merits than before and the places 4-10 in Tier 3 get significant more crownes and merits than in Tier 2, so that is doesn't make sense to play in a deeper tier to win more crownes and merits.
Imagine that in football all teams want play on second league and no one want play in first league - you think it would be possible ? I think in no country this would be possible - also not in your home country.
Maybe their can be a single team who don't want to promote but than many many teams stand their to take this place.
I am going to have to say I'm against this. The guild I am apart of sure as heck doesn't have the DEC/Crowns to move up. This should of been a larger discussion and town discussion with as many guilds as possible and of course Cryptomancer and other devs. As this is I'm going to have to vote against.
crytomancer took part in the discussion, you can check this in discord.
Sorry I really don't get your point.
You write that the smaller guilds haven't the Crowns to move up but than you are against to increase the amount of Crowns smaller guilds will receive ?
Maybe you don't understand how it works, so let me explain you:
At the moment the rewards are shared into two pots:
12% for the Top-3-finished as bonus.
88% for all guilds (including the top-3-guilds)
With this this change Crowns and Merrits will be shared:
100% for all guilds without any bonus for the top-3
in fact guilds who finish from place 4 to 10 will receive 14% more crowns and merrits than they get now at the expense of the top 3 guilds.
I don't care about the top 3 boost for SPS either.
Set up a potential proposal to hopefully fix things in a lasting way:
https://peakd.com/hive-13323/@khazrakh/lets-fix-the-brawl-system-take-2
Would probably take a bit more effort to implement, so I already contacted Cryptomancer to see if that's something he would implement.
It's kind of a moot point because there is no top 3 boost for SPS rewards. That only applies for Crowns and Merits anyway.
For me this is not crucial; I would agree to the proposal in both cases.
I still dislike this proposal. Have people considered that guilds aren't moving up because they don't have the DEC/Crowns to do it? It's not just the lack of rewards/incentives to climb higher.
Yes we have considered this point and put the removing of the Top-3-bonus into this proposal, so that smaller guild will earn more crowns in the future (if this proposal pass).
Maybe you don't understand how it works exactly, so let me explain you:
At the moment the rewards are shared into two pots:
12% for the Top-3-finished as bonus.
88% for all guilds (including the top-3-guilds)
With this this change Crowns and Merrits will be shared:
100% for all guilds without any bonus for the top-3
in fact guilds who finish from place 4 to 10 will receive 14% more crowns and merrits than they get now at the expense of the top 3 guilds.
I got it mate. Two of my three accounts play in top guilds that can't currently afford to move up a tier. This new rule will further minimize our earning potential and make it even harder to move up, as we constantly place in the Top 3. Again, it isn't a lack of incentives that keep us from moving up, it is a lack of DEC/GP and crowns (which we'll earn less of).
In each of the guilds, I've always been an advocate of trying to move up as soon as possible, but my guildmates are not willing/able to invest the DEC to make it happen. Maybe you're right that passing this proposal incentivizes them to invest more to move up, but I'm concerned that it will have the opposite effect and slow down donations more since we are earning less in the Top3. Only one way to find out though.
Maybe you can then see it as a (small) sacrifice for the entire ecosystem, because the guilds in places 4-10 will receive higher rewards in the future if the proposal is successful, so nothing is lost, it's just distributed more fairly and the DPS bonus What will remain for the top 3 is the top 3 bonus for Crowns and Merrits.
I see your point of view and even the value of your proposition, but it just doesn't cut it for me. Maybe once we get to Tier 5 I will change my tune. I assume you are part of the German contingent of the Legendary guilds.
No I am not part of the "German contingent" I play in Peakmonsters Premiere.
So if you see it from this point of view I cut my own rewards cause we normally reach a top-spot in Tier 4, last brawl we had the Immortal Gods in our brawl, so we got second place.
If I would act selfish I would say "Let this Top-3-bonus - I personally has an advantage from it."
But this is not my point and I put a healthy economy without Distortion of competition over my personal interest.
I am sorry but this proposal is a bit out of touch with reality. I am the guild officer for a T2 guild. We tried several times to go up to T3 and it is difficult because of the frays. There are just not enough players who can do the higher level frays. Splinterlands does not have that many players at the moment and in fact over time we lost a good number of players some of whom just quit the game. We still manage to be successful in T2 due to hard work. We usually get top 3 but I feel that we are barely holding. Reducing our rewards may just destroy our guild, like many others, because we CANNOT go up to T3 and some may not like T2 anymore if the updated rewards are made worse. I vote NO. And I hope others will think carefully about this even if selfishly it might benefit you in the short run.
Thank you for your oppinion.
You really bring it to the point:
"And I hope others will think carefully about this even if selfishly it might benefit you in the short run."
So please do this and think not to your guild who get a top-3-spot in Tier 2 but think to the guilds from place 4 to place 10 in Tier 2.
Why this guilds should get double lower rewards - first cause they took less points (this is okay) but second cause you want consist to your top-3-bonus and don't want share them with the 7 guilds who was not able to join the top-3.
You thought to this point ?
I am downvoting this proposal as I feel quite strongly that there is a better proposal out there, specifically this: https://peakd.com/hive-13323/@khazrakh/lets-fix-the-brawl-system-take-2
Conceptually, I agree with some of what's in here. However it's not entirely clear (unlike the other proposal linked above). I'm fully in favor of making brawl improvements, just want to make sure the proposal we back is the best one that's currently available.
cc @davemccoy @khazrakh
I have no issues with anyone downvoting and I like KH's idea too. My main focus is eliminating the extra bonus merits and crowns for the top 3 in each tier. I feel this creates a situation where we are building a moat around the top few guilds and this actually creates a perverse disincentive to future competition.
Ok so it sounds like there's been a good discussion between @clayboyn @khazrakh, @xsuilx, and @azircon at the DAO townhall where the conclusion was that this is a step in the right direction. I trust my guildmates, and so I will switch to an upvote.
Cool Brave! I wasn't on the townhall, but I heard the same thing from KH.
To further clarify - I don't disagree with the direction, I just think there's a better execution out there to achieve the objective of improving brawl rewards.
The problem I see right now is with the Fray system, not with the rewards. One guild cannot decide to be new player friendly and have 20 low level players since there is not enough low level frays do be able to do that.
On the same issue, if I decide to level up my guild to make it go higher in ranks (which is what is suggested in this proposal), I'm losing even more low level frays. So no I'm not interested in being forced to fill my guild with only elitist players and be forced to kick all the new players I have that I was trying to help get involved with the brawl system at the first place.
Once they fix that issue with the fray system, we can then talk about other issues but this proposal seems to have been created by the top elite guilds out there to benefit the top elite guild out there without considering the fact that this will have a bad effect on smaller guilds.
Also, I'm sorry but because 20 people discuss about these topics in the DAO chat don't mean it worth investing 100$ DEC in putting up every of you and your friends idea that you consider are interesting...getting a bit tired of all these half-ass proposals that we get for the past month that could have need months of discussion and making sure everyone is on the same page on before wasting the DAO money to propose them to people that were not even part of the originals discussion to get started with. I'm voting no simply because this is not the time for new proposal right now and that most of them are useless and a waste of time and money.
We need to stop creating band-aid fixes on issues that actually require the entire thing to be redone or upgraded. Right now it's like we're re-applying some stickers on a rusted car with holes everywhere that we know we are going to change soon anyways...
First of all, the proposal was not only discussed in the Discord, but there was also a Hive post about it:
https://hive.blog/splinterlands/@schachoberhessen/splinterlands-dao-proposal-remove-the-reward-reducting-for-brawl-tiers-with-less-than-10-guilds-participating-and-remove-the
This proposal was only created a few days after it was paid out.
On the other hand, Splinterlands has just made a change to the Fray composition and Frays have also been lowered and restrictions that made it more difficult to find players have been lifted, for example there is no Fray for alpha cards and no for Alpha and Beta cards more, but at least Alpha+Beta+Untamed cards can be used. This in itself is a big concession to the smaller guilds, which often had problems with the staffing of the Alpha or Alpha+Beta Frays .
Regarding your criticism that this was decided too quickly, I can only say that it has now been over a month since the actual thread was created in Discord, and I don't think it will lead to a fruitful discussion if the post months, because this tends to result in the same arguments being repeated and repeated by the same people. Read the post about unlocking the Soulbound Rewards cards closed on November 21st, if you read all 3973 comments I'm sure you will agree with me that this is not productive. I respect your decision to vote against this proposal, it is your democratic right, let's see how the vote goes and maybe you will take part in the next proposal in the draft phase.
I'm not a fan. This proposal is essentially designed to increase the payout for the top guilds. cover it in any kind of wrapper you want, this will disproportionately benefit T4 and T5...a bit of good splash in T3 maybe...MAYBE...but 100% you are saying "Let those staying back from T5 lose All the penalties so they can advance and play by themselves with full rewards" and T4 benefits because those middle guilds there will gain spots if their betters move to T5...so more rewards for T4 and T5...some possible small benefit for T3 and NONE for those lower.
You said the problem is hurting guilds at all levels, but that simply isn't true...it's hurting the TOP guilds...
If it works as planned it will be a domino effect, as guilds go from tier 4 to tier 5, guilds will go from tier 3 to tier 4, from tier 2 to tier 3 and from tier 1 to tier 2. In particular the abolition of the top -3 bonus (for Crownes and Merrits) helps the smaller guilds, as there were previously two pots: 12% for the top three and 88% for all guilds (from which the top three of course also used), if in In the future, all Crownes and Merrits will be distributed 100% based on points and no longer based on placement in the top three, which in my opinion is a big plus point for the small guilds that don't make it into the top three.
There will be no domino effect from T2 to T3. There are no players who can fill T3 frays in most T2 guilds.
first and secondly should be in different proposals.
For first i would vote yes hands down
just cuz of the second I would vote no because top 3 shouldnt have to redistribute rewards when they are doing their best and filling all frays. Theres many that place 4-10th that arent filling all their frays and that lowers the whole reward pool and they dont get punished for that. we should honor guilds that fill all frays and try their best to be at the top. Unless those guilds that dont fill in frays automatically count as losses and those losses add to the reward pool , this proposal is a thumbs down for me.
A big issue with the top 3 bonus is that brawls are matched randomly wtihin a tier. There are some guilds that obviously dont belong in a certain tier but they are getting matched with super weak guilds that are probably bottom of the tier. itd be like a gold 3 fighting a silver 3. anyways guild brawls need to start having an mmr system so we can actually match similar leveled guilds with similar levels of competitiveity. Theres non competitive guilds out there just putting empty frays and super weak level 1 lineups and they have to fight against a strong guild and then thats considered the strong guild bullying and getting more rewards come on
You have a point:
" Unless those guilds that dont fill in frays automatically count as losses and those losses add to the reward pool "
I agree with you and this is definitely planned to run in a proposal in the future, however @cryptomancer told us in the discussion thread in discord that this change need a significant amount of coding and we cannot expect that this will be quick, so this proposal consist from the things who can be changed quick and later we want bring in your point.
You can check out in discord - I put both topics in the Draft Proposal suggestion thread in splinterlands discord
yes but I dont feel like this should have been together with the current one
I have not put it together, I have submitted both separetly.
@Clayboyn was first handle it in one thread but I tould that it is not neccessary connected - you can check all and read back in discord.
I'm happy to see how people will vote. I'm also happy that we didn't pay to make a proposal on it before we got the feedback.
I personally think this is a good compromise. But of course we need to see what everyone else thinks.
@clayboyn will you get an automatic tally of the votes by SPS or is this just a process where you can see which side of the issue each person stands? Either way is fine with me, but again glad we are getting these up so people can weigh in.
I want to get away from Discord and start using a stake-weighted system on the chain. That way we don't have to worry about anything being edited out without a historical log and we can use stake weighted polling. It needs some more dev work at this point, but there is a dev working on the stake-weighted polling.
awesome Clay!
The main objective of the proposal is to encourage all guilds to rise to tier 4 and tier 5 of the arena by offering an additional percentage of crowns and merits (14%) to those who remain between quarrels 4 to 10. Therefore, If you are between positions 1 to 3, you are invited to go up to the next tier where you will surely obtain places from 4 to 10 and possibly earn merits, crowns and SPS similar to the previous tier or even better. All this is going well and since I have been in tier 2, tier 3 and tier 4 with different accounts this year, I can attest that the rewards in a higher tier are equal or better even if I am among the last places.
However, this bonus would be given by deducting it precisely from positions 1 to 3, since they are a minority and the proposal would surely end up being approved. Out of respect for these clans that for years have strived to bring together the best Splinterland players in the same guild and maintain consistency during that time, it seems to me that they should be consulted first if they agree to take that step as a incentive for other guilds to level up.
On the other hand, leveling up is not easy, you need money to complete the buildings, find players for the new gold foil fights and make the members understand that the first Brawl could be humiliating but that they must be brave and resilient. An additional 14% bonus on merits and crowns may not be what a clan is looking for when they want to level up.
What I want to say with all this is that perhaps the proposed proposal is not fair since there is a subject who will be harmed and a beneficiary who may not notice that additional 14% that is being offered, because the main objective of Each guild will continue to be in the first places.
Before we run this proposal it was discussed nearly a month, first in discord and than in this post:
https://hive.blog/splinterlands/@schachoberhessen/splinterlands-dao-proposal-remove-the-reward-reducting-for-brawl-tiers-with-less-than-10-guilds-participating-and-remove-the
Than it run one week as preprosal, visible for everybody who want see it at Peakmonsters and Splex and we even don in this phase (preprosal) a change by removing the top3-bonus only for crownes and merits and not for SPS.
So I think it was all open and everybody could discuss.
IMO it is not the best way to just come after all is decided and the real proposal run already when it was so long before time to address all issues and I think if a guild is really interested than somebody of this guild can also look once a week if their is a guild-related topic and must not wait for an extra invitation.
I believe that the biggest problem in advancing the guild is not merits and crowns, but rather the large amount of DEC needed, many decs were burned to reach the PEG, today here in my country to level a full guild costs practically R$ 100k or more , this is a great value, not all people achieve this.
For example, we are looking to raise the arena to level 7, just from level 6 to level 7 it is currently 501 dollars, perhaps it would be fair according to the brawl ranking to be awarded X amount in guild points. for example, first place 100GP, second 80, third 60, fourth 40, fifth 30 and so on, it would be a good way to reduce the cost of evolution, as we have several sponsored guilds, but few "organic" guilds that belong to friends who got together and are playing splinterlands with friends, for friends.
The changes to the game are to bring the possibility of bringing the game closer to everyone, so more people will want to play and participate.
i agree with this. its super costly to upgrade buildings
and lets not mention how difficult it starts getting to fill the frays starting at tier 4. its not realistic with our current playerbase
Maybe you can suggest in discord to reduce the cost for upgrade in building or at least to sell a new tranche of dec-b to a reduced price (last was 20% discount) so that it will be cheaper in this way.
this will upset the people that have already upgraded it. it wont be fair to them and most of these are the biggest sps stake holders :D
In every case it stay the option to suggest to sell a new tranche of DEC-B
id actually be against doing any more DECB. it was a bad idea in the beginning and glad they have no plans of doing it again
Maybe you can suggest in discord to reduce the cost for upgrade in building or at least to sell a new tranche of dec-b to a reduced price (last was 20% discount) so that it will be cheaper in this way.
I personally would rather see the Top 3 continue to receive higher rewards (including boosts)...
It makes me feel good when we take top 3 and when we miss, the boys and I try harder next time!
However, I can definitely see where the Reward Reduction factor should be removed to incentivize playing in that Tier vs punching down...
We done the compromise that the Top-3-Bonus should continue for SPS but not for crowns and merrits.
This bonus for crowns and merrits add for top-guilds a huge advantage as they can buy more gladius-cards and have than better cards for next brawl, on addition they get more merrits and can upgrade their building quicker.
When it leads to the result that one guild play with silver-level-gladius-cards and the other with max-level-gladius-cards this is not a fair competition or would you take part in a car race on foot?
My friend... I have been getting shit stomped by higher level Gladius cards since I started Brawling.
That is the nature of the beast... however, to your point, you are incorrect because only in the top Tiers/Frays where you can play Top Gladiators will that have any true effect.
For my guild, Bitcoin and Brews, we play Tier 3 as that's as far as we've advanced since early 2022.
We're not rich, we're not bots and we don't win every single Brawl... but we DO win... Gladiator cards are great... but they don't win games by themselves... unless they're named Quora Towershield lol...
I think we should uncap the restriction but I am actually FOR keeping the Top 3 Bonus... I mean... that's why it's competitive right?
Otherwise, just load a Fray, pop in a Chaos Agent, take the L and get the same amount of SPS/Merits/Crowns as if you tried and got 6th or something...
One moment my friend, maybe you missunderstand one point - the Top-3-bonus won't be taken completely away, he will (when the proposal is successfull) only removed for Crowns and Merrits but he should stay for the SPS-rewards.
So the proposal won't change anything in the top-3-bonus regarding SPS (at least if 10 or more guilds are in the Tier - not the brawl - ).
To take away the reward reduction for Tiers with less than 10 guilds seems very logical - this will probably only apply for Tier 5 - but why guilds who invested in the store can enjoy the merrit bonus but guilds who invested in the arena will be cutted down be the reward reduction factor.
This factor was usefull to prevent that the first guild who reach Tier 5 will win a very huge amount of merrits but now it has lost his sense as it was enogh time to bring Arena to Level 9 (I mean for the top-10-guilds)
Kind of feels like there should be better ways to do this.
Like maybe penalize rewards based on total number of crowns won to date, a chart, the more crowns the less the rewards percentage.
That said, might not be easy to code and obviously this proposal is already up for vote.
It can be in the future, but we have to deal with the ressources who splinterlands is willing to invest in this topic and @cryptomancer said it clear in discord that anything who need coding won't be solved quick, so I think it is reasonable to start with that what can be done (relative) quick and come later with a second proposal.
The second part is already on the way (but clearly will require another vote, you can check it out here:
https://hive.blog/hive-13323/@khazrakh/lets-fix-the-brawl-system-take-2
it is unlikely that this post will have any rewards @clayboyn
There is virtually no discussion on this I saw only 29 people reacted, why is this proposal even forwarded as a pre-proposal? How many guilds were involved in this discussion. I am sure I wasn't.
The discussion has been open since November 11th and has 29 in support versus 2 opposed. This is something that has been brought up many times. I'll tag you in the thread on Discord to read through it. There are some other reworks that were being discussed, such as counting unfilled frays so that in penalizes guilds that don't fill all frays and rewards those that do. What's suggested here felt like the best option that wouldn't require major dev work.
Clicking an emoji and Engaging in a conversation are not the same. All I can see is less than 10 people engaged on that topic. Isn't it very few ?? Also, when it comes to changing the reward from the top 3 guild brawl winner, you must need feedback from those who regularly win on that position, not just from the guild who are struggling to win.
Mancer already said he is not going to do anything before January 2024, so we still have time to discuss, so why rush ??
I want to see at least top 5 guild brawl representatives engage on that topic and take a decision. by top 5 means, The Guild of neoxian, Summoner Tribes, Legendary Dragons, Immortal Gods & Shield of Glory/Sumurai guild.
The discussion has been open for almost a month. I can't force people to participate in the conversation. That said I'm not sure the SPS rewards multiplier was meant to be nerfed here or just crowns/merits boost. This preproposal may get updated once I get more feedback.
Ultimately I plan on having a soft consensus layer on chain that is stake weighted so we know when a proposal is ready to move forward. Discord is not ideal for governance discussions.
Here is my feedback:
This proposal is untimely. There is no rush needed to change any of these.
I felt after reading the discussion briefly that there was limited participation among guilds
For all the other things that we need to change in the game, I feel this is low priority.
That said, you can bring any proposal you like. However, people are free to react as they please on them.
That's fair, I'm not super partial on this issue either way. The discussion met the threshold for bringing forth a proposal based on the placeholder guidelines. The conversation made it pretty apparent to me that we do need to address this issue at some point though. I never really put much thought into why we sit at the top of tier 3 instead of advancing. I remember someone saying it was better for us to stay there and earn more and I just kind of forgot about it tbh. That said... it clearly isn't working as intended if guilds are refusing to advance to tier 4 or tier 5 as they make more in tier 3 or 4 for less effort is it? This reminds me of the whole "why build a champion deck when I can build x number of bronze decks and get more rewards" argument and we can see how bot farms ran with that...
Sorry but you should read the context, the answer from @cryptomancer was a reply of this question:
So he told that this change what we want implement with this proposal can be done quick but the topic
"count all frays whether someone submits or not"
can be done only in 2024.
So we decided to put in this proposal only what can be done quick.
I hope I was able to provide more clarity in this respect.
Just an FYI, this has been updated to keep the SPS rewards boost and only remove the Crowns and Merits boost as that seems to be the core issue. From the comments I've received about this proposal it seems that this should be sufficient to address the problem with lack of advancement incentive and still keep the competitive nature of Brawls alive and well.
Just to clarify - would the reward reduction only apply to Crowns&Merits or also to SPS?
If it's only Crowns&Merits I think it's a good idea and would vote for it.
If it applies to SPS as well I'd say it's too much.
I'm open to making that adjustment if that's what the community wants.
I was the big proponent of the change to the top 3 bonus, but I don't mind if they get the multiplier for the SPS only.
Meh, I worded that badly.
I don't mind removing the top 3 bonus from SPS as well.
My point was to not have the full SPS rewards if there are less than 10 guilds in tier 5 because I don't think that's needed.
So in short - no more top 3 bonus, full crowns&merits even if there are less than 10 guilds in a fray, SPS still lowered if not a full 10 guild tier 5.
Sorry for the confusion, English gets hard when we are going into the finer details.
Sorry I think that you missunderstand.
As far as I understand the reward reduction is ONLY active for SPS.
I think that crowns and merrits aren't affected from the reward reduction. Maybe @crytomancer could make it really clear who it works.
The amount of Crowns&Merits earned depends on the number of guilds in the fray or more exactly, it depends on the number of battles played.
So if there are 100 battles played for example there are twice as many Crowns awarded than if there were only 50 battles.
That and only that is why we are still in tier 4. The SPS rewards are already higher in tier 5 as is - making a change to that won't move a single guild to tier 5. We don't care for increasing the SPS rewards if the guild still earns less Crowns than in tier 4.
What we need to fix is the reduction of Crowns&Merits if there are less than 10 guilds in tier 5 - only that will make tier 5 happen.
Also tagging @davemccoy and @clayboyn for this.
It seems like it's not really clear what this proposal would and would not actually do if it was implemented.
Difference will be even more as only player who take at least one point will contribute crowns to the pot, so in a brawl with 2 guilds 50% of the player hasn't take a point and will not contribute to the pot - IMO what a stupid rule
I would agree with this as well it's enough with not penalizing merits and crowns.
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Link to this Pre-Proposal
Updated At: 2023-12-11 10:14 UTC
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STOPI think this proposal will help the guild I play in, but... Does this proposal incentivize guilds to advance even if they don't have the players and those players don't have the cards to defend next tier frays? To me, I may be wrong, this proposal does that. Guild brawls should be for competing not just for farming sps, merits and crowns. You can't compete, you do not advance. I am right now defending an easy fray in tier 3 (gold level regular foil chaos + untamed) against only 4 more players. That means half of the guilds are not defending the fray. You give more candy to guilds if they advance, more unprepared guilds will advance, less fun... I may be missing something