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UPDATE 3/21/24: The SPS DAO will send 350,000 USD payable in DEC (Dark Energy Crystals)...
Proposal:
The SPS DAO will send 350,000 USD payable in DEC (Dark Energy Crystals) from it's treasury to the Splinterlands/SteemMonsters company in order to hire at least two additional developers and to ensure that a fully functional SPS Validator product is complete within one year.
I have already confirmed with Matt that this support from the SPS DAO would be welcomed and greatly appreciated.
Why should the DAO use these funds to support the build out of the SPS validators?
- I think it's fair to say that one of the DAO's main objectives is to protect and to grow the value of SPS.
- Having the SPS Chain up and running will move us closer to being more decentralized, which is part of the original vision and will help protect us against anti-crypto regulations.
- On the last Townhall Matt made it very clear that getting the SPS Validators up and running "…is an incredibily important thing…", and it hasn't been made a priorty because it's not something that will generate revenue for the team.
- Matt also mentioned that he believes we need to get a fully funtional validator system in place before attempting to get SPS listed on a tier 1 exchange like Binance or Coinbase. He also showed his support by saying "There has been a lot of talk about getting SPS listed on Binance and Coinbase, which, obviously I'm for".
- I believe the DAO should be utilizing it's resources to best support the needs of the team and right now the team can use the support. With NPE, Land 2.0, and more, pulling team members to work on validators will likely slow everything else down without additional help.
- Time is of the essence. We are potentially on the edge of a massive bull run. It could be now or 6-12 months from now, but getting the validators up and running is foundational.
What are the details?
- Matt, or a team member appointed by Matt, will be in charge of hiring, paying, and managing these developers.
- Matt may use up to $350k in order to hire at least two additional developers and to ensure that a fully functional SPS Validator product is complete within one year.
- Any funds not utilized will be returned to the SPS DAO on May 1st, 2025.
- If the team finishes the validators prior to one year, then Matt and team, will have the autonomy to utilize these developers as they see fit to continue to bring value to SPS token.
- By May 1st, 2025 the SPS DAO will vote on whether to continue paying for these developers or not. If the DAO votes no, then the Splinterlands/SteemMonsters company may hire them on their own.
- On May 1st, 2025, if the Splinterlands/SteemMonsters company has not produced a fully functional SPS Validator product, then they will be required to pay back the SPS DAO 50% of the $350,000 for a total of $175,000.
Thanks for putting up this proposal DJ. I agree with this given what Matt said about the importance of validators for the pursuit of exchange listings. Ultimately, I think that DAO funds can and should be put to use to better the game and its ecosystem, and this seems like a good way to do just that.
Brave and DJ......conceptually nothing wrong with the proposal.
but we MUST get the cost down.
Please we need to reach out to developers like @cryptomancer and find if the cost is realistic especially if we recuit globally, cheaper places, like Philippines, Indonesia, even India.
Please edit the cost otherwise it will be a NO vote from me.
I think the main consideration here should be whether the amount we pay is reasonable given the expected delivery timeline. I agree that $350k for a 1-year delivery timeline might be a bit expensive, but frankly I would be in favor of paying that much if the delivery was closer to 4-6 months for example. We need to regain momentum, and completing the validators can help, which makes it worth the investment in my opinion.
Here's another way to think about it: the spend we're looking at here is peanuts compared to the EXPECTED value we have for this game/ecosystem/token. Of course we want to be thoughtful about our spending, but if we're overly timid then we potentially run the risk of not giving ourselves the chances we need to succeed.
100% in agreement there, Brave. Question is mostly 'what we need and how to get it done'. Most people are unsure how much work is done. Estimate varies from 80% finished to nothing at all depending on who you ask. Just needed some clarity here, and DJ is getting back with the info.
The issue is that it's hard to tell what % done it is and what more needs to be done at this point. That's part of the job of the devs we get to do this. The project has been worked on by a number of different people on and off over the years, most of whom aren't with the company anymore.
What I want to do is to get two top notch developers to own this project. That includes reviewing everything we have, planning out what needs to be done, giving realistic timelines for completing it, and then getting it done.
Ultimately, if the DAO decides to help out here then the token holders will be trusting me to use the funds wisely to get this done in as high-quality and efficient a way as possible. We will make sure to be very transparent throughout the entire process, and share with the community the list of tasks that need to be done and their progress on a regular basis.
I'd be happy to discuss this in more detail on a DAOn hall or other avenue as well as I think this is a very important topic.
So the way I read is that there is a lack of continuity on this project.
If I take my project management experience for 'non-software' related project, I'd estimate that it will probably take more time that you estimate right now; especially considering new developers in the project.
That brings us to the question of money. DAO is running out of stables. I am unsure where the money is going to come from.
The DAO has over $2M of non-SL funds available. Some ETH can be sold if needed. I'm not saying that to mean that you should approve this proposal, I'm just pointing out that should it be approved, the DAO has more than enough available for it.
As for the timeline, in my experience it all depends on the lead developer. There are some developers who make projects go on and on forever and there are some who know how to get things done and often surprise you by how quickly they do things. I have the latter sort of developer already picked out to lead this project and I plan to try to get it done with or without the help of the DAO (this proposal wasn't even my idea).
That's great. Essentially I think we want:
(1) Current status of the work (to give more transparency on how far along we are).
(2) A clear budget (from Matt, given he knows best on the completion rate) needed to complete the work within 6 months.
(3) A review of the importance of Validators (I think it's important to itemize this again to get the Community's support).
Brave: please read the conversation between Matt and myself; he says he can get it done this year. In that case I see no need to fund this.
There have been other conversations about more important funding allocations
Ah, I had missed that, thanks for pointing it out Azircon. Ok, makes sense.
I'm in for hiring more developers, but why the insane amount of money? same thing with the person who runs the DAO proposals, an insane 50 kusd for 1 person, in my country 0,1% or less earns that amount...
So, in these terms, NO, we're just making people millionare with DAO's funds, and then DAO will empty their bags...
100% voting for this one! I can't see anyone who wants the game to succeed not voting for this.
Literally the opposite. Is Invennium the one that needs to deliver a product they "invented", not us the players. This is just another shill to pump whales bags, using the recent discussion for the Tier 1 exchange.
Wow, this is getting really toxic really fast.
I agree with this for sure
yeah how about we take the money out of the subsidary company and fullfil the promises made in the past with that money?
It´s beyond me how anyone can see the money this company made in the last years and the dozens things it tries to juggle without ever saying that it should focus on the main product. The fact that a 100 % owned subsidary company is let loose and builds two ecosystems while steemmonster inc. is close to bancrupcy appearently is pure madness.
And now the DAO that is supposed to provide the baseline for rewards from 2026 onwards (if I remember correctly) is stripped of cash left and right.
At some point we really earned it that we´re not relevant anymore in web3 gaming.
175k per programmers...no wonder you having issues with a small team of programmers and cannot deliver in time if you put all your money in overpaying people...wow. Then we wonder why land, tower defense, guild revamp, proper mobile App(R.I.P.) as never been delivered in time...
Meanwhile you have project like Golem overlord that got 1 guy company/programmer/everything that created a game from scratch, with proper mobile version, many new features getting added all the time etc.
Sites like PeakMonsters that create better market since day one and that get everything updated day 1 when new stuff change in the game and it's runed by what, 2-3 guys?
Or project like Baron tools that create 100% better UI and player experience then the main game since day one and we talk about 1 guy doing that for peanuts in his free time..
But you tell me you cannot find proper devs below 175k per years...I'm sorry but if I paid a guy that much, he better deliver stuff in 2-3 months then you make him work on land 2-3 more months and we're done with land 2.0 then another 2-3 months and we're done with 3 years worth of delay by the main team, otherwise, sorry but such a salary is unjustified for a full 1 year timeframe and there is no reason not to hire a full team with that much money, if you answer is "good luck finding good programmers bellow that price" well you need to start to learn outsourcing for the right price and learn to challenge more then one devs and have them give you a proper quotation and learn the basic of negotiation...
Since when the DOA have become a charity that throw away money left and right to hire all the Splinterlands friends and family and provide them with salary without any proper head hunting to find the real right people for these jobs...are we not paying a guy 50k per year to represent us and do that job for us?
I don’t mind these types of proposals. I agree it is a lot of money but you need to spend money to make it. I think there are two things people are missing from this. 1) it is a minimum of two developers. If they’re able to find more developers at a better rate they could hire more. They could hire a lead at $170k and 3 juniors at $60k, etc 2) if they fail to complete the Validators by 05/01/2025 they’ll be required to pay back $175k.
I like the time line and the consequence of not meeting it. But it still a no for me.
I think we can be a little more creative with the funds we issue from the DOA. Like corporate structures of stock options and invested stock options. For example, a developer is hired at $60k. $50k is base (DEC/stable coin) and the remaining $10k is in the form of an “sps option” meaning the developer will have the option to buy SPS at a set price for a set time interval. Let’s say 5-years and an SPS price of $0.10. With our $10k example this would be 100k in Sps. The way the developer benefits here is if SPS passes $0.10. Let’s say sps hits $0.30 in 4 years. The developer decides to exercise his stock options and buy 100k Sps at $0.10/Sps from the DAO netting them a $20k profit. If Sps never reaches $0.10 in 5-years the Sps is released back to the DOA. This way the developer is invested in the company and wants it to succeed as opposed to just a one time employee.
If you justify the development salaries better you can 100% get my vote. This is a very niche salary that you have to make good use for. For now, I'm a strong no.
I have been in charge of filtering, interviewing and hiring developers from all over. Sponsoring them to come over, or contracting them. I know exactly what hiring cheap labour does to your codebase so I'm not asking you to change the strategy, because if you do what others are telling you to do in the comments, I'll be the biggest NO activist.
Anyway, look at the comments, give a good explanation of why that's the budget and I'm sure we'll mostly agree. You can't expect a quick yes without explaining.
Cheers
Thought we where waaaay further along with development.
Good idea to offer help, did not think we would be talking up to 350k and possibly 12 months though?!
edit: Will wait for others including developers, coders to chime in.
Hell no. I don't benefit from validator nodes mainly because I never purchased one. You need to fund that project from the same bags that are going to benefit from them.
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This is the most important thing we need to do for the integrity and value of SPS. I'm not a whale and I don't own a node. Voting yes on this.
I fully support this idea as the hiring will be done by the @splinterlands team which is the best party to take care of an operation like this.
Thank you for this new information. I did not even think about this aspect and this is one of the biggest reasons to support this Proposal.
Details, position 6. is very problematic. If you have a contract fine, especially this much and after the money has been spent ... you need to be much more specific. What is fully functional?
Also, depending on the development progress 1 year is not a lot of time to plan, code, fix, test, fix, test ... and so on. How many bugs are allowed to pop up afterwards before the thing becomes not 'fully functional' and said fine is imposed?
What if it's not quite ready in May, but the company decides to keep the devs working on it? Still a fine? That may force a rushed, minimally 'functional' product.
I completely agree that getting SPS onto tier 1 exchanges is a big step in the right direction and if completing the validator system is the way to do this, then I support this move. However, I think a break down of this considerable amount of money should be shown here. I appreciate you may not be able to give exact figures but are we saying that $350k is to be split between two people for a single year's labour, or are there other costs elsewhere that need to be covered? You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but $175k each for two developers per annum seems incredibly pricey.
Thank you for participating in SPS DAO Governance @dejota!
You can place or monitor SPS Stake Weighted votes for and against this proposal at the link below:
Link to this Pre-Proposal
Updated At: 2024-03-24 08:38 UTC
Can someone explain why a fully functional validator system must be in place before getting listed on a T1 exchange? I am a returning player, would appreciate the context
I'd be in favor of this for a smaller price point. $170k year salary for a project that is already in motion is a bit much in my opinion.
"A bit" too insanely much money, in my opinion
only 2 developers? are you kidding? go to Asian country and give them a job with 1/4 or 1/5 the labor of US citizen. Go for India, Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Thailand, or etc. Fun fact: largest Microsoft employees are from India
I echo the gratitude of the gesture but that cost is crazy to me. I say yes only to move forward in hopes that the costs go down
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350 000$ for 2 developers? Who the hell on earth are you hiring? Dao Is not a charity association
"I have already confirmed with Matt that this support from the SPS DAO would be welcomed and greatly appreciated." 😆 This sentence means absolutely nothing, wow.
So let me get this straight: Whales don't want to spend DAO money on a tier 1 exchange (God forbid we become well known) but they rather prefer to spend DAO money on pumping their own bags full of "validators" (An imaginary token that does nothing as the whole token system inside Splinterlands is validated and carried by Hive blockchain)
Am I missing something?
For the record, I am in favor of both the exchange listing as well as this proposal.
How does this pump validators? Holders of licenses are already getting the rewards for holding them. Once they actually work, license holders will actually have to do work (run a node) to get the same rewards they are currently getting for for doing absolutely nothing. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see how this is pumping validators.
This proposal and Matt "featuring" it, is just beyond shameless. The company collected several 100k from selling their validator notes licenses (not sure people already forgot about it, since it was years ago). This money was meant for developing the validator note thing. Actually, we saw several roadmaps and several promises were made, that the validator software is 99% done and basically ready for roll-out. Now... only a few years later after nothing happened at all (but all money - including the funds from the validator license sales - has been burned for totally useless projects), the DAO - once more - shall be in charge for paying the bill. It actually looks like the company can leech the DAO even faster than the bot farms do with the game rewards :D So happy, I am already one-and-a-half feet out of the door. Its really a shame though: What used to be a wonderful game, with a once superb positioning in the market is going to be just washed away by the tides of the web3-ocean that wont have place for mismanaged projects anymore this cycle.
I think you're mixing a lot of things up. Splinterlands earned $0 from licence sales.
But I agree with you, I thought I saw that the nodes were much more advanced than that! 2 dev' for 1 year when it was supposed to be finished soon seems really disproportionate.
I'd rather raise money to pay a professional UI/UX designer for video games instead.
Whether 2 people for 1 year is a lot or not depends on the current state of the project. Is it all planned and "just" needs implementing, testing, fixing, testing? Otherwise they can go learning and planning for the first 6 months of the year.
I can't judge that.