Please stop with that narrative. Take into consideration my comment before it's too late to save Splinterlands. Honestly, 90% of the proposals that pass/not pass show me time and time again that the whales only have their own interests in mind instead of the overall game/player base.
When Soulbound cards were announced there were always talks that they could be unlockable, in the future. No one, at the time, thought it could be anything other than the burn value. That's a very fair situation: no DEC is ever minted with this.
2x fee to unlock, even with voucher discount, is already move expensive than it should be. I'll still vote for it because people are crazy about wanting even higher fees. Just think about 5x. There's no way anyone will ever pay $62 to unlock a GF legendary. Add all the market fees that now exist, plus the risk of not being able to sell it for enough to make a profit, and the cards are still basically Soulbound. You can buy GF legendaries for cheaper than that unlock fee from CL regular and rewards set!
The cards can't stay Soulbound forever nor can they have such a high cost that no one unlocks them. This would be very bad for any new player joining in after those cards are not being printed anymore. Even anyone joining now would be screwed out of many of them. Even players who played the whole time at lower leagues, if they eventually want to invest more and move up, would be stuck with low levels for these cards.
You make a lot of assumptions in there. I guess we disagree on how to find a solution.
One thing you should consider before you tell people to "stop with that narrative": insulting people that are trying to help you with this ridiculous statement will not help you at all. Don't be surprised if everything else you say afterwards will be viewed as biased and self-serving:
Normally I don't take the time to blast someone that is so rude, arrogant, and condescending; but in your case I will tell you that your attitude is exactly what causes problems for the community.
You don't want to see anything but your way, you have it all figured out in your mind, and what you haven't learned is how to work with others. Instead you are like a child that doesn't get his way and throws insults out in hopes that he can rile up enough people to join his cause.
If you want a reasonable discussion of my point of view, then I'm happy to have one. But for you to try to thrust your perspective in and drown mine out, then don't waste your breath.
We all have a vote and you are welcome to vote how you want based on whatever is in your head.
Well, it is the truth. Most often, people vote with their own interests in mind. Sometimes it's perceived interest, other times it's real interest. It just so happens that, usually, the interests of the whales don't align with the interests of the rest of the players. Some of them also have a bigger voice in the community to rally up others to their cause. I've seen the discussions in discord about this. It's absurd how some people try to argue that a higher unlock fee will actually make you profit more.
There is no downside big enough that is worse than the downsides I presented if we don't unlock the cards or if it's too expensive to unlock.
Thanks for the polite engagement, even though we don't think alike on these 2 topics. While I disagree on both points, of course we each have our own perspective which form our opinions.
I don't even see how my original comment was rude in any way, shape or form.
Your arguments have some flaws. The "no compromise aspect" is the worst part. 2x even with voucher discount is already a compromise. It should have always been 1x. That was what most people perceived would happen when they announced Soulbound cards. It would remove any possible DEC minting from these cards because, even if they were burned, they would only be getting back the DEC that was burned to unlock. Also, not everything is about compromise. Ignoring the obvious problems, if someone suggested that people with over 1M SPS were forced to give 10% to distribute to people who had less than 10k SPS, should we be talking about compromise and maybe go between 1% and 5%? We can't compromise anymore than this. These cards need to have a chance to become tradable, otherwise it creates too many problems, not for the economy but for the most important part of Splinterlands: the game itself.
I already have a few cards maxed out (only commons and uncommons) that I obviously would love to sell so that I could get other cards that I need. I'm not even sure I am willing to pay 2x with voucher discount and risk never making that back. If it's anything above that, I know I won't ever touch the unlock button.
You want 4x unlock fee? How is anyone gonna pay more than that for these cards? A maxed common would be $8. You can buy almost 3 maxed common reward cards for that price. You can even buy most maxed CL commons below that. A maxed rare would be $9.6, a maxed epic $18.4 and a maxed legendary $22. In rares we reach a similar conclusion to commons. Other than the summoners, there are only 2 CL rares that currently cost to buy maxed than it costs to unlock a maxed rare. Epics are similar too. Legendaries are a little better but it's still cheaper to buy any CL rewards legendaries and many CL legendaries than it is to unlock.
And just looking at the most extreme: GF legendaries would cost $50 just to unlock. Most GFL in CL or CL rewards cost that or around that. Even a couple GFL summoners are very close to that price! So, if I unlock one of mine for $50, for me to get a similar profit to a situation where I get and sell a GF Djinn Oshannus, I have to sell it for over $100 (because of all the market fees). If I sell it for $60 I profit about $6. Most people don't buy GF legendaries. If there are several very powerful legendaries that people can buy for the same price it costs to unlock these, why would they bother paying more for these?
You say that if the fee is low and there's no time limit the cards will be cheap. That is not a problem. I want cheap cards. Cards too expensive are a problem for the game. Right now most people can't access the most OP untamed cards and those who do have a huge advantage. We can't create a similar or even worse problem with these cards, especially because they still have very well over an year in Modern.
A high fee makes the cards more expensive for the buyer. It also increases the risk and lowers the profit for the seller. Everyone loses.
The only possible positive for some people is the potential upside by gambling the unlock fee if there's a time limit. But that is only available for whales who have spare capital. Most players can't afford to gamble that money into unlocking their own cards instead of buying some of the new cards.
I would prefer that they remained soulbound forever and instead could be burned for "dust" that could be used to get other soulbound cards, from this or future sets. This way, there would never be an oversupply of these cards but even new players could always burn some of their cards to get an old one that isn't in print anymore. This dust system is something that hearthstone does.
Rather than me rehash many points I've already made, let me just point out all the assumptions you make. Maybe that will help you to understand better:
a) 2x is a compromise.
b) 1x is the way it should be
c) most people perceived it this way
d) we can't compromise more than this
e) these cards need to have a chance to become tradable
f) if not tradeable it will endanger SPL itself
g) you say I want a 4x unlock fee
h) you then explain how the card market works without any reference to past issues like Alpha, Beta, Dice, Untamed
i) you want to sell at a profit but you also want cheap cards
j) high fee lowers the profit for sellers
k) only whales will benefit if there's a time limit
We don't have to debate these assumptions, but there are people out there that would think you are wrong on each of these points. Thus they are in your mind, and called an assumption.
Just remember that not everyone sees things as you do. You may think you are right, but others would say you are wrong. Its ok to have an opinion of course, but you should know that any opinion is not proven, its simply your theory.
I will vote against this for the reasons I stated in my original post. Its not a compromise and doesn't have a time limit.
I would compromise on my issue if others did so too, but I'm certainly not going to reward with my vote people that are unwilling to give an inch and see the other side. I don't think that is healthy or good of the game, so I would rather see this fail.
That's my opinion and I will vote on my opinion. I'm sure everyone will do the same.
You say you want a productive discussion yet you don't even try. You simply stated everything I said and said it is an opinion. Not everything is an opinion. If someone proposes that the DAO pay them all their assets, it's not a matter of opinion which one is wrong and which one is right.
Several of those are facts, not assumptions. How can anyone argue against the fact that a fee lowers the seller's profits?
You literally said you were happy with a 4x fee that Matt supposedly agrees with.
I talked about prices of CL cards because those are the most recent ones and those are the ones that will stay in Modern at the same time as these soulbound cards. There's no need to compare them to cards from a different era.
How do you not see the problems for the game if some meta cards are untradable? Imagine you were a new player arriving after these are out of print and you liked the game. You started playing but you kept losing to some cards. You investigate and you find out you can't get those cards anymore. Do you continue playing a game that is going to be super frustrating because, no matter how good you get, no matter how much money you're willing to put, you'll never be able to compete with people who happen to own those cards?
I explain all of my points. You putting them like makes it look like I simply gave those statements.
Paragraph 1: no one proposed the DAO pay them all the assets.
Paragraph 2: the fact that you don't know this just shows you should learn from someone that might. The answer to how much profit you make is not tied to the fee you pay to unlock. Its tied to the incremental demand OVER the unlock costs. If you can make a profit, so can others. Then its a race to see who can undercut each other to the point where only a bot can out do everyone because all the profit is gone and people have better things than to fight over each 0.001 DEC.
Paragraph 3: no I didn't. I said I was happy he stated his thoughts so that we could move closer to compromise. Without him weighing in, then people didn't know what he thought and thus clung to their side harder.
Paragraph 4: I understand why you did it. But to use them as the examples of the future prices is short sighted. All your examples can be counteracted with examples of other sets that would show the complete opposite outcome. I don't know about you, but when I value an investment of a card I look out over a long time frame. I still have most of my cards from every set and rarely sell any of them.
Paragraph 5: I am for unlocking of the cards or if they remain soulbound then we definitely need to make sure the new players can obtain them. So in this case you are assuming again something I think that isn't true. I agree that new players need to be able to get these cards and also need to be able to get the Gladius cards too.
Paragraph 6: my point to you is you do a lot of assuming. Generally you are not asking me why I disagree with any of your points, mainly because I don't think you believe I have a good answer. Like in paragraph 3, you read what you wanted to read and assumed something that wasn't true. When I pointed out that it wasn't, you came back and said it again.
The bottom line is I'm happy for you to vote how you want, and I'm happy to explain any of my thoughts to you anytime. But when you make statements like "the whales" are "just out to give me the short end of the stick", then its just creating a negative atmosphere meant to stir up emotions.
To make it clear to you, I vote for what I think is right for the health of the game in the long term. I rarely sell my assets and have held them for a very long time. I care that all players enjoy the game and feel that they are treated with respect. That goes for little players and larger players. We are all people in this world and I advocate for what I think is right.
Paragraph 1: it was just a ridiculous example to make my point.
Paragraph 2: The fee to unlock most certainly affects the profit of the sellers. Even if the cards sold for $1k, the less fees paid, the better for the seller. And it obviously isn't that simple.
Paragraph 3: I did not interpret what you said like that but ok. Honestly, the team and Matt have been wrong so many times I value his opinion as much as anyone else's opinion.
Paragraph 4: I have very rarely sold cards. I think I sold a level 6 or 4 Kelya to buy a level 8 Kelya. I would have sold a GFL if I had ever gotten one that wasn't soulbound. I still don't think it makes sense to compare these cards to anything else other than the CL and CL rewards cards, both for the print run and for their lifetime on Modern. Alpha and Beta were different times. Even Untamed was different. All those sets are under printed for the current player base.
Paragraph 5: You say that but you want a high fee. 2x is already pretty high. It will already make many players not want to unlock their cards. I honestly doubt it will ever be worth it for me to unlock my extra rares and commons, especially if it's anything over the fee that is in this proposal. That just means I have literally worthless cards in my collection.
Paragraph 6: I don't need to ask why you disagree. In a discussion, people are gonna say way they agree or disagree. My assumption is for anyone who supports a high fee and time limit is that they have something to gain from it. Even if you personally don't think that, I am 100% sure many do.
This is an unhealthy and destructive opinion:
You can state it all you want, but that doesn't make it true.
Its insulting and I'm quite sure you wouldn't appreciate people ascribing a negative connotation to you without knowing you at all.
If you want to be treated with respect, you should treat others with respect.
It's an opinion that is backed up by how a majority of the whales voted most of the time. Most people vote with their own interests in mind, I do too but I have voted against my own interests in the past because I thought it was the best. The problem is that not only the whales alone can make or break a decision, some of them are also able to influence a lot of people.
It's not even an insult. At worst, take it as me venting because I feel, yet again, that me and many others will be getting the short end of the stick.
I think its an insult to say someone doesn't care about others. I do appreciate your self reflection though. I think when you say you are 'getting the short end of the stick', you just assume that the vote went in such a way as to not give you what you want.
In this case, I do care that you don't get the short end of the stick, but I'm voting against you because I think your view of things is wrong. I of course could be wrong in my thinking, that's happened before many times. But I know why I'm voting the way I am, and I'm doing so to protect you as much as to protect me.
I don't think you or anyone else is trying to hurt the game on purpose. Unless we had an Elon Musk type of guy, so rich that he could afford a few million bucks to troll us, everyone in the ecosystem has an interest that the game has success. However, I often see decisions (some from the team) that are not good for the game or are too punishing for regular players.
People definitely make mistakes, that I agree with. I'm happy to hear that you understand people are doing their best, even if you don't agree with their conclusions.
We will learn together. And that's what will make us great in the end imo.
Thanks for the convo Olaf!