a9edc10e180decb7bc3a075cb2b14c577af531b4
The Splinterlands company is working to reduce our expenses as much as possible to ensure that we have adequate funds available to continue operating and improving the product indefinitely. The less money the company spends, the more money ultimately goes into the ecosystem and the game assets, which ends up benefiting the players and the company in the long run.
We've been working to reduce our non-payroll expenses down as much as we reasonably can, and we continue to work on that, but we are also trying to find ways that we can reduce our payroll expenses - which make up the bulk of our overall costs - without significantly reducing our productivity.
To this end, we are proposing that the DAO hire @cryptomancer to continue building out the Secret of Praetoria land expansion effective as of October 1st, 2024. This will help the company out significantly and we strongly urge the SPS stakeholder community to approve this proposal.
Cryptomancer's rate for software development services is $90 / hour, and would be capped at a maximum of 160 billable hours, or $14,400, per calendar month. In some cases, due to time off or other circumstances, the monthly total will come to less than this. This proposal will last for one year, unless the DAO votes to cancel or modify it before then, at which point it will end and a new proposal will need to be passed to renew it beyond that.
@cryptomancer is extremely detailed and organized and will provide to the community detailed timesheets and updates on his progress on a monthly basis which will serve as the work invoice to the DAO. The monthly invoice will be paid by the DAO treasurers in either USDT, USDC, ETH, BNB, or some combination thereof, on the Ethereum or BNB Chain networks, to the EVM wallet address provided on the invoice.
If this proposal is approved, @cryptomancer will still be part of the Splinterlands team and will continue to work with the rest of the team as normal to develop the Secret of Praetoria expansion. The specific tasks or features that he works on related to the expansion, and their priorities, will still be determined by the Splinterlands company, unless a future governance proposal is passed that specifies otherwise.
We understand that the DAO does not have unlimited funds and that the community needs to be careful and smart about how its funds are used, so we would not even submit a proposal like this unless we felt that it was necessary and we expect it will ultimately benefit the community more than it will cost in the long run.
If, however, the proposal does not pass, we do not plan to let @cryptomancer go. We plan to keep him on the team, however we would be put in a very difficult position of needing to make cuts in other areas at a point where we have already reduced the team down to what we would consider a bare minimum necessary to continue at a reasonable rate of development.
Updates - Oct. 7th, 2024
The following updates are being made to the original proposal above after discussion and feedback from the SPS stakeholder community.
While the Secret of Praetoria Land expansion will be @cryptomancer's main priority, he may also be required to fulfill duties not directly related to Land as part of his employment by the DAO, such as code reviews for other developers, assistance with monitoring of production systems, team meetings, urgent bug fixes, etc. These items, along with his work on land, will be tracked in his timesheets that will be made available for the community to review on a monthly basis.
As part of this proposal, Splinterlands agrees to create two new promo cards after the currently authorized promo card sales are completed and sell or otherwise distribute them in whatever way the DAO instructs (within reason). The details of the two new promo cards and their sale/distribution will be determined via a future SPS governance proposal.
Since the DAO will now be directly paying for the development of a key piece of the Splinterlands codebase, as part of this proposal Splinterlands agrees to work with the SPS stakeholder community in good faith to find a mutually agreeable way to ensure that the SPS DAO will have access/rights to the Splinterlands codebase and all related assets and IP to ensure that they are in a position to continue to operate the game in the event that the company is no longer able to.
We all know @cryptomancer is excellent and is highly respected by all. This vote is not about whether or not to have Mancer around, its really about whether or not to make cuts in other areas vs. having the DAO fund the expected shortfall vs. increasing revenues to the team in other ways.
I believe its very important that @yabapmatt has a townhall to go over the issues and answer questions so that we have a clear grasp of the situation; and thus be able to vote responsibly. I think most everyone would want to support Matt's plans, he's the reason most of us are here. But in order to properly spend our money on a plan, its important that we clearly understand the goals and purpose of such a plan. An AMA would be a good opportunity to achieve this objective.
Honestly, it's hard for me to say yes to this proposal. I feel a bit betrayed here. The land presale raised at least $1.5 million (150,000 plots at $10 each), and now we are being asked to use DAO funds to cover what feels like more and more how mismanagement the last years was. It's frustrating to see that we're now in a position where we—the players and supporters—have to step in and pay for it. Again..
I would prefer keeping the funds within the DAO and looking for cuts in other areas instead. Moreover, I have serious questions about how the Decentralized Hive Fund (DHF) was supposedly feasible for marketing if we can't even maintain the current team effectively.
At this point, it's all just incredibly frustrating.
Yes, I agree with all of that. Great points. I want to support Matt's vision, and I think cryptomancer is great and has been a big part of why the game what it is. That said, I think these proposals go too far in the first step. A discussion should probably be had about options we have for moving forward with development, including where cryptomancer's expertise would be most impactful. If the Steem Monsters company is paying for it, then it's up to them. If the DAO is paying for it, I think we should have a larger say other than simply yes or no to a proposal like this.
Thank you for the comment Dave this makes things more clear. This isn't about not funding land its just about putting @cryptomancer on the DAO payroll.
Agreed, if the dao is going to pay for services, it should have some say in what services are provided. I'm not sure 'Secret of Pretoria' work is the best value for our money considering the additional downward pressure this will place on SPS.
Having land up and running wouldn't be negative pressure it would actually be positive. Every time we mention land is coming soon everything increases in value. Then we get screwed over by constant delays.
I couldn't agree more that land will do practically nothing to bring new people into the game and does very little for most of the remaining players as well. Land is really for the small handful of OG players that were around for the presale and want to lord over their tracts and regions with a lack of cards and DEC.
I would agree that Land is not the best use of developer time and funds, but I don't object to paying Cryptmancer out of the DAO fund as I would like for the DAO to take on the majority of product/development funding responsibilities (while also being the org that brings in and grows its assets/profits).
We might be getting to a point where it is time to hear Matt's full vision on how Steem Monsters Corp (SMC) and the SPS DAO will coexist as the SPS emissions wind down and then end.
True. That's a big thing ... What'll happen when the SPS emissions stop?
The SPS DAO is still sitting on a big pile of SPS, but there should also be a buyback program that uses assets to repurchase SPS from the market to refill its reward payout.
Is there any plans to what to do when that happen?
We had some preliminary discussions in a few of the DAO channels. I think we also need to adjust some of the SPS emission streams to match/adjust to the whitepaper.
Exactly. That's how we should read this. These are separate matters, but this may open the possibility of not having a DAO-funded mini set before the end of year. Matt said he thinks about it, and to have the next core set sooner next year instead.
Hi Dave, hope you are safe and well.
This proposal is really about the fact that Steem Monsters is MASSIVELY OVERPAYING its developers.
We the DAO are already sending a disgustingly large amount of money to Steem Monsters every month to cover the wages of PJ and his team, to develop something that is allegedly important but has no bearing on the actual game itself.
Now we are being asked to spring for another 180 grand for one person's wages.
There are literally thousands of great developers all over the world that would do a great job for Steem Monsters without being paid big company wages.
Frankly, if you want to earn 200 grand a year for not a lot of work, fuck off to google or some other mega corp with more money than sense.
For a tiny games studio to be paying a whole bunch of people lavish wages at a time when the company is struggling to survive is really insulting and offensive.
CUT WAGES, not take even more support from the DAO at a time when it is already paying out a huge sum to the company. which is already receiving funds from Hive itself.
This is really going too far...
Well said, so many great coders out there, so many games that do well with 1% spending compared to SPL but with game play that seems to attract players. No idea why such proposals and such numbers are even discussed and to let DAO pay is ridiculous.
Please keep the conversation respectful. This is NOT a request. It's a requirement.
Do you think the decisions and actions being shoveled to us players in the form of "DAO voting" are respectful to us?
I have been an avid player, collector, advocate, and have spread Splinterlands on real life in my gaming store here in Spain for years. Now I think I am being ripped off, and that the DAO is being plundered. I'm choosing exactly the words that I wrote as they mean exactly what I think is happening. So not sure if there is a "respect" problem on simply words, but actions.
A DAO is owned and governed by the community. You are part of that if you own SPS. If you think voting is disrespectful, then you are showing disrespect to yourself :)
Right, right. Words are just words, nice strawman. I stand by my post.
Stand by for eternity :)
This tells me that we obviously need to generate revenue or we're screwed. Land does NOT help generate revenue. NEW PLAYERS GENERATE REVENUE. We have neglected the NPE for over three years now, it's time to focus ON THAT AND THAT ALONE before ANYTHING ELSE to keep the lights on. And if we need every single dev on the team making that happen, that's where I'd want to see the DAO funds directed, not towards land.
What brings in new players in the Crypto world? We had a period years ago when tons were coming in and we had a terrible New Player Experience. So i'm not sold on this. People will find a way if the situation is right. What we're agreed on is the desire for new players... but in the crypto world maybe it's a bit different what drives them.
I agree, we should have been constantly pushing for new players this WHOLE time, regardless of the state of entry. The thing about this 'NPE' is that the team has flatly refused for YEARS to focus AT ALL on bringing in new players, and the excuse is always the lack of a NPE and tutorials. We get told that it would be a waste of time and resources to make tutorials, since gameplay will be changing to much, soon, and everything would have to be re-done... but...those changes never come. I was told this THREE YEARS ago. Imagine if we had just made tutorials THREE YEARS AGO and put some energy into expanding the player base. The lack of any serious tutorial at this late date blows my mind.
We need new players and we need them now, no more excuses. Whatever it takes to make that happen needs to be TOP priority. This has clearly become a matter of survival at this point. We can no longer depend on a handful of whales to prop up the economy. We have to stop pricing things so a large part of our current player base refuses to buy. And we need ALL hands on deck making it so we are 'ready' to attract new players. That's the only way we can keep the lights on at this point.
I have come to realize that Matt's vision of land, while awesome, is simply to grandiose to realistically achieve with the current skeleton crew in any reasonable time frame. We have had simple NFT crafting games for years now, we could easily adapt a MUCH simpler way to create items and spells, and then build out Matt's vision as time and resources allow. Clearly, we don't have the resources for the luxury of full on land at this point in time. So in lieu of that, we need to focus on what we need to SURVIVE.
Land can be and should be developed at the same time NPE and the rest of the parts of the game are. The goals are very clear for near term land development, get the rest of the natural resource plots working and the corresponding LP's. This does not interfere with NPE development if this proposal is passed. I don't think Matt would have let this proposal be submitted if it was going to, so let's not second guess him as he has proven himself at leadership so far and he has made it very clear how important NPE is. You can see they are making progress on that and are getting ready for a marketing push.
The way I read this is that we get one person dedicated to land and nobody touches him for other projects but he still falls under the guidance of the team leadership as to how and what parts of land are to be developed. That is exactly what I want.
Land resources can be awarded to new players in an achievement system in loot chests and they can sell those to land owners. If we get the natural resources plots going and corresponding LP's that burns a lot more DEC which makes the whole economy more appealing to new players.
If we get these natural plots up and running maybe we can introduce the salt system and DS crystals in the near future which also opens up possibilities for new players to acquire more land resources in ranked and sell them to land owners.
Either price (SPS) going up and 'high earnings/returns' or a game that is actually super fun.
The first is fully up to another totally irrational bull market where everything goes up like crazy as they are out of options to yet print another new asset out of thin air. For the game to become more fun, a new game mode is needed as Current Ranked & developed Land won't do anything whatsoever to bring in new players.
Without being with malicious intent, would your team be able to do it? What would you estimate on a project cost? I hate projects paid by hour, instead of delivery.
Totally agree!
I do agree that the NPE is THE most important glaring hole that needs attention at the moment. As long as that is still being worked on and developed, I think this is a good idea.
Maybe Yaba can elaborate as to where we are on that. What our holdups are, who's working on the NPE, and if Mancer would even be useful at this point being pulled off Land and thrown into something else.
I know they said Mancer is suitable for the Land updates as some of the necessary work is similar to stuff he's worked on for HE. I dunno...just playing devil's advocate here. Maybe a little more info on where we stand on NPE would be useful in helping folks decide if this is the right play or not.
Matt has been preaching that the NPE is the most important thing for us. If that still stands true and it's still being tackled by those who've been entrenched in it, and we are making solid progress as is, maybe pulling Mancer off Land and thrusting him into that might not be prudent. Maybe it would. I dunno. 🤷
Any info to share on this @yabapmatt that could help clarify things a bit more?
Vonak!
land generates a ton of new revenue including fees from more swapping and trade. Stop thinking the company is making no money. They are making plenty they collect 5% fees off of all trades happening, rentals etc. It's most likely greedy investors on the backend if I had to guess.
Land is good enough for now, so put it on the shelf for now. You want to put one of your top coders on an esoteric system that only a tiny minority of players participate in? It's asinine.
1,000,000,000%
1 BILLION PERCENT!
I think we should do a DAOn Hall with @cryptomancer and possibly @yabapmatt to discuss this proposal.
100%, Need to get more in detail with this one
Land is such an albatross and I hate to say it, but land is going to bury us.
In my opinion, nobody, including Cryptomancer, should be working on anything land related as none of it will matter anyway if we don’t get new players and a new core set that is accessible/ desirable to them.
Guilds and all outstanding NPE material need to be the absolute priority above everything else.
All hands on deck for things that are immediately impactful.
That said, I will happily support the company via the DAO, but the conditions need to be changed. Land needs to take a back seat to everything else. Game changing development and updates to this beautiful game need to be a clear priority from top to bottom for everyone, especially our veteran dev Cryptomancer.
Well said, I completely agree with this.
Land is the luxury component of Splinterlands. It is hardly necessary for the core game, but can provide interesting mechanics that can be nice to have in the future. That requires a healthy thriving game with lots of players, and we need to make sure that happens first!
100% agree,
Land was mainly a cash grab based on optimistic promises and it has been dragging everything down for a long time. A pivot needs to be made to find another 'easy to implement' use case in the short term while for now giving up on the idea for it to be a fully separate developed game. The core Card Game and fixing what is broken there needs to be the priority!
Yes!
Hell Yes!
I think we discussed this on a show a few months back, now land has the potential to pull us down and suck all the resources since it's SUCH a huge vision and huge project. We literally don't have the resources to build land right now. Put land on hold and build what is NEEDED to bring in new players so we can FINALLY launch this 'marketing push'!!
Land is not making money, land is not bringing in new players. Land needs to be rescoped to make it less timely to implement and to bring in funds/player. imo.
IF the DAO pays, the DAO should be in charge of rescoping and maybe designing a revenue model to make a profit on this transaction.
👍
I agree with majority of current sentiment I see here in comments. Before we focus on another major project (Praetoria) - which is also an EXPANSION to the CORE game. "NPE" polishing is a core game necessity to guide new players in the ecosystem. Would prefer the DAO pay @cryptomancer to help complete all core game needs first (NPE) with such a small team! If @yabapmatt disagrees with that priority, I'd interested in seeing a "NPE Roadmap/goals" & current completion checklist & maybe some insight/perspective from the Teams' point of view why Praetoria should be a primary focus right now over help with NPE or other core game functions like Guilds? I have roughly 25 Land plots myself, but I've already put Land on the backburner mentally; I don't mind waiting another 3 years for land if we have to as long as we make the right priority calls short-mid term to survive.
This proposal does nothing except INCREASE the concerns people have about what exactly is going on with Steem Monsters.
Blithely asking the dao to stump up 15 grand a month for a developer is quite the shocker!
From the DAO's perspective, we are responsible for SPS, not for funding a game development company.
Personally, with no disrespect to the individuals involved, especially Cryptomancer, who is a top chap, the problem here (as we saw previously with the equally questionable proposal to pay PJ and his crew another huge DAO fortune for not very much work) is that a small games house is paying its developers big company wages of $172,800 a year, which is freaking ridiculous.
It is time to CUT WAGES and get VALUE FOR MONEY, rather than turning to the DAO to bail out some seriously overpaid people.
There are literally thousands of great coders all over the world that would work for far less.
This does nothing but suggest Steem Monsters is on the point of failing, despite currently being subsidised heavily by both the DAO and Hive itself.
As @alexvan pointed out, it makes more sense for the DAO to fund something by project rather than by hour. Land is probably not the best fit this.
Instead of this proposal, SPL could ask the DAO for funding for NPE development (or other projects that can be completed over a shorter timeframe), and use their internal funds to complete the land project. If everything goes well, this could amount to the same amount of money anyway, but in a way that makes more sense. This NPE funding proposal should include a clear plan with smaller milestones, which upon completion will unlock payments from the DAO.
This way, the DAO can be much more certain about getting value for their money. The amount asked for here leaves the DAO very short handed, as @clayboyn stated in the discord thread:
Thank you, at this stage, we need to be very effective with the funds, as it seems that there is a million dollar party going on, where everyone gets some money out of the DAO. There is a plan needed for the next steps, with clear actions, as you mention, but I doubt that somebody has even something like that in mind. We don't have an updated roadmap, for example, a commitment to the community.
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As a landholder I say f*ck land for now. I don't give a hoot about iron and desalinization crystals. Make this a game normies want to play and us land owners can use the esoteric land system as it currently is (so farm sps and for research, etc.). You should be all hands on deck to improving player experience (including new players) and onboarding new players. All of the esoteric shit needs to be put on the shelf.
The DAO is quickly becoming an ouroboros.
More info here, SPS DAOn Hall with Cryptomancer and Matt: https://www.youtube.com/live/emrt6uafKNk?si=XLypitEzbrdw4zfR
I'm going to echo some of the sentiment here. If we are being asked this, to do so means we are basically broke. We were warned that mismanagment would eventually lead to the DAO being plundered. We are at that door.
I have not bought a pack in months, I have barely played in that same time. Why? Because there is no incentive for me to. There is nothing for me to gain? Wow SPS. I can just go buy SPS. I'm not interested in SB or glint. I'd already lost all interest in Land. Player experience and incentive has been destroyed for most, hence why we lost so many players and is why we dont gain any either.
That feeling of earning random DEC drops - Gone
That feeling of burning Glads - gone.
Real reward cards - gone.
Pack drops - Gone.
Pack pricing is not worth the incentive either. $4 packs for where the game is. It's too out of touch with buyer mindset and emotion. $2 packs would be the go but not without incentive.
I want to play the game, I want to spend money on the game but what am I gaining? Part of the fun of spending hours battling was the thrill of getting something back in chests that had tangible value. As a consumer in NFT gaming, I don't want soulbound rewards I have to pay to unlock. I'm sorry not happening. And somehow despite the constant nerfs, the pleas from an ever decreasing playerbase, people still cant read a room.
New players will come, old players will return and spending will increase when the incensitve is there for it. Enter PE and NPE. I support Cryptomancer, I wont support this proposal as using the DAO to hire for land but rather to go back an unwind some of the nerfs that have hurt player engagement most. Land is not the solution to the current situation SPL finds itself in. It is another one of those moments where we cant build our way out of it. Anyone find they miss the old days of early Chaos and Untamed? Maybe ask why? I think rolling back is needed to find where the true heart and soul was with why players felt they couldn't miss a day playing. The old feeling of clicking on a chest not knowing if you had a potion, a GF card, a random DEC or SPS amount or a pack hidden behind it.
Now bots were and are the biggest drawback to this but I think we have come far along enought to realise ownership of SPS is a key player and nuking the SPS rental market to stop bots would have a greater impact against this malpractice experienced in the past. Also paying to play a season isn't so bad if there is incentive to.
Just some thoughts, I'm not here to debate the merit of if I am right or wrong. I'm just here to place a value of sentiment. Because sentiment is everything in this space for right or wrong...
I was thinking about chipping in as well, but you basically layed out everything that needed to be said. Spot on.
And this is the sad part. The fun part of the game being drained for years, and yet, still thinking land is the solution.
Thanks Pardinus, I'm trying to come from a genuine heart and place and not one that is trying to throw mud at anyone person or decision. I've had my time to be frustrated. Man I love this game, I met some amazing people through it. I think this game has an unbelievably resilient community and I think the game itself has riddiculously untapped potential. And yet I am sad. Not because my bags aren't pumped. I mean I'm still here with $1000s in assets, but I have nothing to play for I can't get just staking. So that is what I do. I sit and stake and wait, wanting to play but unwilling to risk more $ because I don't have anything I stand to gain from it, be it a free pack and random DEC or SPS drop or even if it's a crappy 1 cent common. It's what drew me to spending 10sk on this game in the beginning.
I was never 'making' bank buying 1000+ Chaos packs or Rift or Dice packs I bought in the beginning, but I was earning tangible assets no matter how cheap in value they were. There was always the rush of getting lucky and getting a good drop every few seasons and then that rush made me want to buy more so I could increase my chances. So I spent more, knowing I was never actually making back what I spent but paying for that 'thrill' via exciting battle. With those things gone from the game and replaced with things that were less desireable, the idea of battling leaves me empty.
Sure there was the hope that so long as this thrill was activated, eventually my earlier assets might begin to work for me in a net positive way that is envisioned in NFT Crypto Gaming. That is the goal of making limited NFT's after all in the first place. And like it or not that is the idea of crypto gaming most crypto enthusiats take some comfort in.
When we shatter that hope and thrill, we lose players in this space no matter how much we try to say this should not be the goal of the individual. It's a incentive thing. It's a sentiment thing. Without positive approach to those 2, you get to where we are today. Just wish others could see that.
I completely understand and feel the same. It's not the "devaluation of investment", it's seeing bad decisions after bad decisions, and making the game less and less appealing; and it's frustrating to see that time after time it seems the obvious is being overlooked, and the why is not something I understand fully. Oh well, crossing fingers for better days (and decisions).
Is it an option to make some of the supposedly so complicated land code open-sourced? I guess not but I want to ask, because frankly, land back-end can't be that complicated and frontend, while the UI/UX considerations are tricky for sure, as I understand is not part of the specification here?
Not an attack at cryptomancer at all, he is entitled to set his rate, but looking at the development cost and what comes out of it, I can't feel but that the end product can't possibly reflect the cost. I mean in the end it is an economy simulation plus staking requirement, the later should be done. So assuming the 1.5 preparation abstracted all production processes etc. this really shouldn't eat hundreds of hours and subsequently thousands of USD.
What I also don't like is the presentation of this proposal. It is basically "do you want to pay for x", when we have no idea what the alternative is. What does making cuts in other areas mean? I am all for the DAO shouldering some of the development costs, but then I would like more insight. So could you provide some sort of requirement or specification for land to reveal what is so hard about it? Or is it all just owed to bad documentation?
Land needs to really be scrapped and start over. It's overly complicated for NO REASON. Should be so simple to put out. Build buildings to collect resources to make consumable NFTs. Keep it simple stupid.
100%. The entire idea of land making it a complex game was a massive mistake and more of an unrealistic promise to get more $$$ from the pre-sale during the peak metaverse-land hype. They should pivot now to making land something really simple with an option to maybe properly develop it later on in case the funds are there to do so.
agree. the DAO should be responsible for rescoping as well imo, if it is paying.
No, no and again no. I agree we can employ Cryptomancer (i suggested that a long time ago in fact). I knew will have to help the team, couse money is tight and runway running out. But for land no, no and again no. There are far more pressing matters to do first that will be way more beneficial. And not so damn time consuming (the minute i seen whitepaper 2.0 for land i thought to myself, who the hell will code all that). First and foremost get the ideas together for guild reworks. Cryptomancer already worked on that so there will be no delays in deployment. He knows the ins and out of guild system. Get the inflation under control, employ packs, dec, sps, cards for guild rework. There where so many good ideas regarding that, but for some reason discarded. Imo that will be money better spend. And after all shouldn't the DAO be the one having the last say if its DAO funds. FFS, has everybody lost his mind.
So there was a big pre-sale 4 years ago to develop land during the peak of the 'metaverse-land' crypto hype.
This was followed by delays and announcements of extra costs to take from the value of plot prices which went so high in price during the bull hype with the need to also stake DEC, buy a power core, a building in a box, time crystals, pay Grain,...
Now 4 years later there is a very basic product which is producing worthless resources all with the promise that one day everyone who invested will be able to make the items & spells for which might not even be the demand and which are kind of already implemented in the game with the new summoners.
All of this now is followed by a crazy funding request from the DOA to pretty much start developing land while none of it will actually help the game forward as it won't bring in new players or make the core Splinterlands game more fun and accessible.
Let's face it, Land was an easy cash grab with an overpromise of an entirely new complex 'civilisation-type' game that would give older cards a great use-case and value. All we are left with is the Splinterlands card game where you either have to choose between investing 6000$+ to be somewhat competitive in Modern where you are forced to play at least 1 hour daily and where it's a sure thing that your card investment trend to near zero as all use-case of the cards is taken away once they get dumped into wild. The other option is to play in Wild where you are forced to run a bot and where it's the most efficient to just use free soulbound cards.
The entire idea of land has been killing Splinterlands and it's needed to make a fundamental switch on it in the short term.
What Splinterlands needs most is a new game mode that is super fun and allows new players to easily get in without the need to make a major investment or do overcomplicated rentals without the rewards even covering those costs.
I Would vote yes on a funding proposal for a new game mode (something like Arena in Hearthstone) where players pay a fee to enter and get rewards (Packs, Glints, Cosmetics, SPS ...) based on their results in a fair way while they are able to play on a fully level playing field (no Pay2win garbage) with max level cards. These cards that are used in this game mode should be provided by players/investors who own them just by locking them on land for which in return they get part of the entry fees that are paid based on how many of each cards are staked and how often they are used.
This would give older cards more value again as it allows for an easy 1-click rental option and it would create an easy fun entry point for new players also allowing them to play when they want without forcing them to play each day 1 Hour+ or run a bot after investing their life savings into a sinkhole.
This Land Funding Proposal nonsense is one of the reasons Why I'm giving up on Splinterlands after 6+ years. The Card-Price-Gap- Problem needs to be fixed and older cards need to be made more valuable again if Splinterlands ever wants to attract more players and keep their existing ones.
Month after month Aggy pumped the crap out of land (land is for whales) and then did a vanishing trick leaving a pod of disgruntled whales.
considering that cryptomancer works on other projects like hive-engine, isn't paying 14.4k/Month for a part-time dev too much? Or is it increasingly clear that the SPS DAO is paying for the development of other projects indirectly? As we are entering this phase where the DAO is paying several costs that should be the company's, we should clearly receive all financial and expense information. Who knows, perhaps there are other areas OR other projects that the community would not be interested in financing?
It's weird how this love affair between SPL and the DAO seemingly works. Looking in from the outside it is hard to distinguish between who is the boss and who is the slave. If SPL wants money from the DAO then does that not make the DAO the boss? If that is the case and if SPL wants to throw the towel in over the land expansion then why is the DAO not the one presenting a proposal for the continuation of land development given that it has to pay for it if it wants it?
The way this proposal is put forward (the DAO hires cryptomancer but he works for SPL) it looks like SPL owns the DAO and any vote is just a rubber stamps for whatever SPL wants.
The compromise is to let @cryptomancer do his backend things with an eye toward the user experience and to give up grand aspirations that land going forward can have the same front end graphical experience and visuals. Set crypto free to create ... the creative team should be focused on some other stuff for New Players, marketing and sales related projects.
I will pull this card... but the reality is that most land owners do their actions over on PeakMonsters.com anyway and making changes there takes a fraction of the time it takes for making changes on splinterlands.com
This request also points to the NEED for the DAO to actually bring in income in the upcoming promo sales! 'Breaking even' is not enough and should NOT be considered success.
As a holder of a significant amount of land, I have to say I am voting no without a few key things being added.
How does the DAO earn this money back? Maybe we need to make a plan here. Revenue from land. How will that revenue be made, how much will go to the DAO, and ETA to recover funds? Or maybe this should be a loan?
If the DAO finances this, the DAO needs to scope it and have a timeline made, likely with progress payments based on work completed (or maybe bonuses for being early and penalties for being late).
And I also feel compromises should be made. The pay is in line with other highly paid developers, but when my company struggles I have to take a pay cut. I am not saying he is not worth that amount or that pay cuts should be on him. But we need to be responsible. maybe there is a way to keep the hourly down?
ALSO, if we are paying him for 40 hour weeks, does that mean all his focus will be land?
Clarification and transparency, how much of that $90/hour is going directly to him? Is the DAO paying him directly the funds or are we paying Splinterlands who in turn will be paying him? I know paying employees comes with costs. If I pay my employee $1000, it probably cost me $1300ish, etc.
If the wallet address is not his, I think it is fair the DAO knows what percentage is going to him.
How much does a programmer earn in Ireland? I live here.
The average salary for a programmer in Ireland is €50,000 per year or €25.64 per hour. Entry-level positions start at €39,773 per year, while most experienced workers earn up to €78,500 per year.
so of course I vote no,
I don't understand why the DAO (the players) should be giving extra funding for something we already paid for when we bought the product of Land. Now you're asking us to buy it again. So far all they've given us with land is a way for us to put more money in DEC and cards. I love the game and super excited for the land to finally come out but the way it seems the Splinterlands team has been trying to bleed the players lately is frightening honestly. I'm sorry but if they chose to put the money from land sales to things other than land and now don't have enough for land development, then they need to figure out finding money from their own pockets not dip into ours a second time for a product we already bought and still don't have.
Nope, I might be for a half split for the first year but not a full split. This is just yet another penalty against your players and DAO for a gross mismanagement that happened for years. The DAO needs more funds and it needs to start passively earning funds on those funds so we can start to cover more costs such as this. However we are no were near that stage and are instead simply draining the DAO now. This is the wrong priority. YOU OWE us the players that invested a shit ton of time, money and assets into this game for land without asking for even more.
I don't usually comment on these things but when I saw that we were being asked to pay $14,400 (Nearly £11,000) a month for a developer I nearly spat my dinner out. What the hell is going on?
I think the SPL team must be living in an alternative universe or something. $14,400 a month !!! I'll write it again $14,400 A MONTH !!!
I'm sure Cryptomancer is a great developer but there is no way that he is $90 a hour good and to be honest I don't think any developer working for SPL should be getting paid anywhere near that amount of money.
I like in the UK and it isn't exactly a cheap place to live but I just did a quick Google search and it came back with
I love this game and I've been here since the start but when I read proposals like this I do wonder whether it can last much longer.
Are you freakin' kidding me?!!! Full time Uber driver make $ 80 000 per year
I don't know how bad is the situation in UK but sounds rubbish to make 35 000 per year as a developer!!!
The salary paid shows the poor financial organization of the company, and the little attention it gave to its payroll, with 10K a month they can hire 2 programmers 3K each plus a program manager 4K, regardless of the experience of @cryptomancer he will never be more productive than 3 people (even if they have less experience).
They should start to see salaries outside of the bubble of prosperity they lived (which is not a reason to neglect that part) but nothing can be done with the past, thinking about the future they should analyze all the salaries of the team.
Thoughts:
For comparison prime minister of UK earns £13800 per month, prime minister of Spain €8600, prime minister of Philippines $7600 and Poland $5800.
Check this site out about WEB3 IT types salaries:
https://web3.career/web3-salaries
just because they are based in US does not mean they cant offload work to cheap developers in asia. Its poor decisions like these this company is in ruins today
I'm confussed. This proposal and it's justifications reads two ways for me, one " we cannot afford to dedicate capital to land as we do not see a retun to our bottom line by doing so, please pay for it if you want it. You should want it becuse you as a community already paid for it, well truth is you need to pay for it again" and " We are doing the pre work to walk away when the inevitable day comes that we are no longer solvient as a company"
Perhaps I am being dramatic? Hysterical? IDK but how would I feel if I invested 250k across 4 years and dedicated 20+ hrs a week of my life to this project only to be further sqeezed? Pretty shitty. What I would want to hear is we as SPL the company can funtion without further monitizing our base of support. The DAO just reads like an ATM at this point.Pehaps I am too WEB2 thinking. Perrhaps DAO's should do this stuff as governance denotes ownership and we as owners are let in the loop of buisness desicions and I am just a newb to buisness? My emotional reaction is " holy crap sell my shit" but then again I have faith in the DAO as you boys and girls have held tight despiste to rockiest of conditions and likley will even if SPL caves as a company.
Ugh keeps getting diceier by the day. Wish Millions wasnt wasted. This is likley a 3 years cycle of flat like all other boom/bust cycles in crypto. We need a break even stasis. Dilluting the DAO which is pretty broke from a Software development buisness perspective should not be paying 250k to develop something it cannot guretee will pay dividends. What new player is going to care if an exspansion pack is made for something they do not even understand. If its to court 1m+ sps bag holders then just give them cards or private staking terms or some way to keep them happy as 250k crypto is a major hit and isnt even covered by the risk free rate of return on the DAO's capital so in essence cryptomancers pocket is where a major chunk of the DAO will exit. I am 100% certain he is worth the price but almost as certain the project will not even pay for itself.
I'm a simple man, I see a proposal by Matt, I vote for it.
Yes, it would be great to have a townhall to discuss this proposal in more detail, but even if we don't have one, I'll always vote with what Matt proposes. Without him, this whole things will cease to exist and he believes something is in our best interest than it has my vote.
I think you are being too simplistic and this proposal is a massive error.
Matt is clearly a talented game maker and ought to return to the role of Product Manager as he is clearly not delivering as a CEO.
While I agree that I'd love to see him return to the position of developing this project (in time), I wholeheartedly disagree that he's not delivering as CEO.
He's being absolutely prudent, responsible, and realistic after prior situations and leadership being very irresponsible with priorities and funds.
I trust his judgement and vision for what we should be doing...as long as the NPE is not interrupted in any way shape or form from this.
Well, he has got the SPS DAO to pay half a million dollars for a calidator, and got Hive to give him a subsidy, and now this?
The NPE is obviously important but there are other things affecting Ranked in particular, that really need addressing too in order to have a popular game.
Ultimately, this DAO's responsibility is to SPS and to completely impoverish it is reckless.
I trust Matt on the game stuff but the business plan seems rather too opaque for my liking.
If we all had the same belief about Aggy, SPL would be bankrupt by now. Blindly following anyone is never a good idea.
While that is correct, I don't believe to be in a position where I can make any better decisions than Matt can. I neither have the understanding nor the insight that he has. So if he asks for support, I will provide it.
We might very well fail with what we are trying to do here, but personally, I feel like we have a better shot if we just let Matt do what he thinks is best.
That's not to say that I wouldn't or didn't support a lot of proposals to change things around, but my stance simply is "if Matt proposes it, I will vote for it."
What is this company doing with the 3k daily received fron dhf? How is that not enough? If this company is so close to bankrupt then hive should not waste money on it and unsupport the proposal
just another clear BIG overspending waste and is showing me really nothing has changed around here. The DAO needs to get serious about generating passive income that can help offset these crazy high costs. The company also makes plenty of money just from trades. They are far from not generating money.
That is specifically set aside to tackle marketing I believe.
I think the land game is the core gameplay to improve card utilization. Every time core set or mini set is released, a large number of cards will be issued and affect the battle environment.
We must give the cards a good retirement place, and the DEC stake allows us to return to the peg and increase the value of sps. Then more new players will naturally come in. When you don't have a good economic model, you can't attract players. This is web3, which is different from web2, people tend to pursue profits.
Moreover, the newly added spell cards and equipment cards in the land game, it can improve the current highly random gameplay. Assuming that there are many tofu summoners in the battle environment, then I can make all my physical attacking creatures wear equipment with the Reflection Shield ability, which will greatly Increase game playability.
You should also want new players to come in and drive demand for cards, not relying on your existing userbase to squirrel them away. Wild should be a place users want to go and play. Deciding whether to put a beta card up for rent or sticking it on land for example should be a thoughtful decision.
Exactly, the entire point to split leagues into Wild and Modern was to give new players an affordable entry point which is less complicated and overwhelming. The way it is right now though is that Wild is just a dumping ground to run bots while Modern is crazy expensive with a clear expectation that cards will fully get devalued once they get removed into Wild.
With this model, the "New Player Experience" and "Planned Marketing" will be more money thrown away as nobody in their right mind would ever want to play or invest in a game like this.
I don't agree that Land is the equivalent of an old people's home!
Land should be spun off into a completely separate game to Ranked, and a proper league system introduced to replace the current nightmare of a system.
Steem Monsters needs to focus on cost cutting, not begging for more money from folk that love it. Love may be infinite but money is not.
Exactly, the model now of endless printing of new cards while completely taking away the ability to actually have fun with existing older cards is ridiculous. How can they expect new players to come in buying packs just waiting for the hammer to be dropped for the cards to become useless in the card game once they get dumped into wild.
This is a huge ask. I don't think the DAO can or should be funding things like this. I'm not sure where all of the money raised for land in the presale actually went. What we currently have for land should not have taken so much time and it certainly should not have taken that much money. It feels like the DAO is being told what it needs to spend its money on. Proposals like this are backing it into a corner. This absolutely needs to be discussed in a town hall or a DAOn hall or something.
I don't know that we're going to make it. The ideas are great, but it's clear that it costs far too much terms of both time and money to get anything accomplished. It's all pie in the sky at this point. I don't think the team is large enough to make the changes we need within the core game and further develop land, and clearly more people cannot be brought on. I feel a sense of doom and despair after reading this proposal.
Actually, there's one way we could make it. If a larger company bought out the game and kept Matt on to develop it. But it's clear that the score is too big and we just don't have the resources or the time to make it what it should be.
I'm voting yes. I think land needs developing as soon as possible or worry there could be an exodus of land holders which would negatively impact the entire game economy
We land holders need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. We WILL NOT save this game by playing Victoria's Secret.
Whilst I agree that may be what the game needs, land holders will feel cheated if nothing is done to develop land and simply leave the game
I have 2.5+ tracks and would rather see land put WAY on the back burner, if not scrapped and re-designed in a MUCH simpler fashion. The complexity is staggering and something we simply do not have the resources for.
Fight me! haha nah I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't expect the entire team to go hell for leather on land, I'd just like to see some steady progress.
That is a huge amount of land btw, do you run it all? or are you slowly selling off bits?
$90 per hour?? Seriously??? Just so I can click "harvest" once per week 👍
"We hate to spend the tens of millions of dollars we have sold in digital packs and lands this last few years so we have this idea, how about you guys pay for the development of the game? We have thought on $180,000 for one year. This way we can just sell packs and watch TV all day!
Neat! I mean, Vonak! "
Love the update Matt, Those are two valuable assets that the DAO now gets in return for our investment. I also like that the DAO can create their own distribution requirements - that should be fun! :)
This new part is probably the most concerning...
"Since the DAO will now be directly paying for the development of a key piece of the Splinterlands codebase, as part of this proposal Splinterlands agrees to work with the SPS stakeholder community in good faith to find a mutually agreeable way to ensure that the SPS DAO will have access/rights to the Splinterlands codebase and all related assets and IP to ensure that they are in a position to continue to operate the game in the event that the company is no longer able to."
Especially this line:
"...to ensure that they are in a position to continue to operate the game in the event that the company is no longer able to."
I think the next Town Hall needs to address this - no BS... No sugar coating...
How bad is it.
That was actually my request. If we're paying for core development we need a license to the code as a contingency plan. That's my assessment of the situation.
As far as "how bad it is," we got into that on the DAOn Hall I did with Matt and Mancer. Honestly it's not "that bad" in my opinion. The company is still losing money, but the deficit doesn't seem that difficult to overcome with some minimal changes. I'd suggest listening to that video.
Thanks Clayboyn,
Where do I find this video - with my limited free time, I typically divide that between Splinterlands/Soulkeep/Asset Management/Peakd in that order with a little left over
Unfortunately, this means I miss a lot of Town Halls, DAOn Halls, etc...
I'd love to watch it but I don't know where to find it :(
https://www.youtube.com/live/09ly4npBtkc?si=FG1JyvHUE7GTFAY_
Thank you Sgt-Dan!
Okay the revision is much better, especially the part about passing along access to the codebase and IP to the SPS DAO to operate the game in the event the company (SMC) can no longer handle the responsibility.
!PIZZA
$PIZZA slices delivered:
@danzocal(1/10) tipped @splinterlands
I wish they would just get land out of the proposal and say we need the money for game development. I don't think we (or Cryptomancer) should have to deal with hourly work reporting. Waste of time and potential salt point from the people who are complaining about his rate.
It's changed enough to not vote it down but damn, KISS. And this still basically keeps it so he HAS to do land as his main priority. I still think putting 'mancer on guild development for a few months would be more beneficial, we have actual data now showing guild participation helps player retention significantly thanks to @royaleagle 's efforts.
Thank you for adding the promo card clause and the good faith promise about code base access/custody if ever needed.
It's very very simple, anyone working for SPL who is making over 4000 dollars a month is robbing the company. I know depending where you live the price of rent drastically changes but I'm fairly certain 4000 bucks is enough to cover rent and basic food needs and a vehicle payment. I also don't consider it barely making it by. It almost seems as if a portion of Greed is in the air but I digress not here to fight just saying some of these numbers are ridiculous.
Thank you for participating in SPS DAO Governance @splinterlands!
You can place or monitor SPS Stake Weighted votes for and against this proposal at the link below:
Link to this Pre-Proposal
Updated At: 2024-10-08 21:15 UTC
"there is an update on this proposal"
"Oh ok, they finally have surrendered as everybody and their mother are calling the scam that is to steal money from the DAO to give it to his friend at an absurd rate so the game gets done by that guy while Steem Monsters Inc keeps bagging profits from packs, gold, dec sales, promos and SPS staking...Right?"
"No, they just double down on the whole thing and add a couple more Pay To Win Promos at the end of the proposal because yes, so they can milk a little more money from the idiots, I mean players.
Maybe if they overpower them enough they can loot a couple hundred thousands USD more, before all hell breaks loose. Also, they are preparing to leave the burning poo bag into the hands of the "Community" when they rug."
Excellent stuff!
Why do we push payment by hour and not by project? If the project is worth 180k, why not pay it instalments on progress? This is a poor mindset, where people are more motivated to use time instead of delivery. Not talking about @cryptomancer and his skills, as he is good and delivered. I talk about the way it is handled. Also, asking for such a sum, we could have different offerings, where companies/devs could bid on the project, as in a free market.
For a project like land it works to have a project payment. But what do you do when he works on 20 tiny things in the game in-between huge projects?
I think for cryptomancer, hourly pay instead of a monthly salary may work better, since he has long periods of traveling and vacation when he works much less, and from how he was described over time, he is very detailed in his reports and good with estimates (unlike many devs).
Regarding cheaper devs, they exist, for sure. But we tend to want great results yesterday, and for that, new employees or contractors only lengthen the duration of development (they need to get up to speed, understand the code, get some easier work first, etc.) and potentially drop the quality standards. You can't hire someone today, no matter how experienced, and tomorrow (or even in a month) they start coding land. It's a lengthy process, which should be attempted at some point, when they start expanding again (hopefully). Let's also account for the language barrier in some cases, where a great coder can't understand well enough the requests, and they either need more supervision or someone needs to make sure they understood what they were asked to do.