The kung fu guy from your clips is Emin Boztepe. I like the guy but we all know that he's probably not going to pull that stuff off on a grappler with any experience. The part that Emin and many other people selling their anti-grappling secret techniques is that the techniques largely depend on the level of your adversary. Fighting is never a one size fits all sort of thing. After UFC 1 Emin and Royce Gracie were going back and forth with trying to put a fight together (part of the whole style vs style thing with Emain being a big Wing Chun name in Europe). I think that Emin kept making out outrageous demands and so the show went on without him. I guess those were some of the moves he planned on doing to Royce...
I think you are correct. I mean, those things may work against a regular guy in a fight, or a trained standup fighter who ends up in a grappling situation. They most likely will not have the same effect on an experienced grappler. I think almost all martial arts bring some useful techniques to the game, but the only way to beat a grappler is to know grappling.
Most grapplers I know, don't want to get in a fight either. I am definitely one of them. Being in communication for a living the last 20 years (sales and business management) I probably have my brown belt in communication so it is most likely you will never get me in a fight.
Anti-grappling HAS to be a thing because grappling is such a huge part of MMA which is getting all the press, and it more of a fight than even boxing.
In a real fight, if you gave us a boxer with zero grappling experience, against a grappler with zero striking experience, you know who I am going to take.
That being the case, the real fighters cross train and become VERY dangerous. They don't assume they come up with a technique that can make grappling not happen. That is what boxing is for.
honestly it depends if the grappler has zero striking and zero takedowns, which is not uncommon from some bjj schools to be honest. it can be very difficult to take someone down when you are bleeding profusely from the face and have your eyes swelled shut lol. most grappling does have takedowns but I have been to schools where there was just no stand up work at all....
If you are a grappler without the ability to take it to the ground, you are not really a grappler. Just like if you are a striker without the ability to defend the take down, you are equally in a world of hurt.
I don't think there are a lot of guys from pure BJJ backgrounds who pull guard that would agree they are not really grapplers....there are many pure bjj guys who's takedowns are not good and most of them require the other person not be hitting them when they go to set the takedown up.
Definitely a good discussion. All the BJJ guys I train with train takedowns and Judo as well (once a month) and if we are talking MMA, (striker vs grappler) then you are right you definitely need a takedown game or you are going to get tagged up.
Plus often you turn a black belt into a brown belt by punching him hard in the face. Since and repeat.
Pure sport jiujitsu with no stand-up/takedown game seems like such a travesty!
it is! it's similar to a Judo school that is so focused on throws that their pins and submissions remain weak throughout their training. it's actually sad to me to see that! our school had a wrestling program start but not enough people got interested so Professor stopped it
made me sad cus we had a very skilled wrestler teaching it
I disagree with jiu jitsu is training with weapons and strikes comment. I am unfamiliar with any form of jiu jitsu that trains with weapons to say offensively like this is how you fight with a spear! and if you add striking you are training mma....
Training for weapons is for defensive purposes. It's part of the curriculum for self-defense. As for striking, punches and kicks are part of jiu jitsu. You cannot enter the clinch in jiu jitsu without understanding striking and distance. That doesn't make it mma at all. If you don't consider the striking element, setting up the takedown is very difficult, specially against another trained individual.
I agree. But there is a difference between 'we are going to throw some type of punch before we clinch' and 'training' to make your striking skillful. to me I don't know of a jiu jitsu class anywhere that would improve a Boxer's striking after he started training there. its a difference I guess between training "with" something and training "to do" something.
It may not be a striking art, but striking is still a huge part of jiu jitsu. Look at combat jiu jitsu in sport, mma, and self-defense. If you don't understand striking, you'll have trouble with the clinch, takedown, opening up submissions, or being swept and losing position. The only place in jiu jitsu striking doesn't apply to is sport jiu jitsu besides cjj. Of course it's not a striking art but you still train it to improve, and cross train.
of course, cross training
BJJ is a sport so saying an argument 'only applies' in sport bjj is kind of odd. that would be like if I said well there are people who use boxing for self defense so saying boxers have no takedown defense is only really true of boxers in 'sport boxing'
mma schools often have training broken down into the individual aspects like striking, wrestling, grappling etc. are there jiu jitsu schools where you can go in and train in purely striking for the class? perhaps there are but I am unaware of them. also are there jiu jitsu people going into striking tournaments with only the striking they learned in a jiu jitsu class?
is there a jiu jitsu tournament anywhere that has striking in it or would that not always be called an mma match?
BJJ first and foremost is self-defense. Yes there is the sport element. And yes there is combate jiu jitsu which allows striking in the sport, and it's not mma. Boxing may not allow takedowns, but there is some clinch work and some basic limited grappling. Muay Thai is very much grappling based in the clinch. Jeet Kune Do has plenty of grappling despite being a striking art. Okinawan Karate is argued that it's origins are actually grappling and not striking.
Wrestling is the only grappling that I know of where striking is not a factor, and even then, I've been hit pretty hard by a wrestler where it may as well been a closed fist.
Rule #1 - Never fight a grappler.
Side Note-Don't try to get in a fight in the first place! Jiu Jitsu can also teach how to fight the mental battle rather than the physical.
The kung fu guy from your clips is Emin Boztepe. I like the guy but we all know that he's probably not going to pull that stuff off on a grappler with any experience. The part that Emin and many other people selling their anti-grappling secret techniques is that the techniques largely depend on the level of your adversary. Fighting is never a one size fits all sort of thing. After UFC 1 Emin and Royce Gracie were going back and forth with trying to put a fight together (part of the whole style vs style thing with Emain being a big Wing Chun name in Europe). I think that Emin kept making out outrageous demands and so the show went on without him. I guess those were some of the moves he planned on doing to Royce...
I think you are correct. I mean, those things may work against a regular guy in a fight, or a trained standup fighter who ends up in a grappling situation. They most likely will not have the same effect on an experienced grappler. I think almost all martial arts bring some useful techniques to the game, but the only way to beat a grappler is to know grappling.
learning period
Most grapplers I know, don't want to get in a fight either. I am definitely one of them. Being in communication for a living the last 20 years (sales and business management) I probably have my brown belt in communication so it is most likely you will never get me in a fight.
Anti-grappling HAS to be a thing because grappling is such a huge part of MMA which is getting all the press, and it more of a fight than even boxing.
In a real fight, if you gave us a boxer with zero grappling experience, against a grappler with zero striking experience, you know who I am going to take.
That being the case, the real fighters cross train and become VERY dangerous. They don't assume they come up with a technique that can make grappling not happen. That is what boxing is for.
honestly it depends if the grappler has zero striking and zero takedowns, which is not uncommon from some bjj schools to be honest. it can be very difficult to take someone down when you are bleeding profusely from the face and have your eyes swelled shut lol. most grappling does have takedowns but I have been to schools where there was just no stand up work at all....
If you are a grappler without the ability to take it to the ground, you are not really a grappler. Just like if you are a striker without the ability to defend the take down, you are equally in a world of hurt.
I don't think there are a lot of guys from pure BJJ backgrounds who pull guard that would agree they are not really grapplers....there are many pure bjj guys who's takedowns are not good and most of them require the other person not be hitting them when they go to set the takedown up.
Definitely a good discussion. All the BJJ guys I train with train takedowns and Judo as well (once a month) and if we are talking MMA, (striker vs grappler) then you are right you definitely need a takedown game or you are going to get tagged up.
Plus often you turn a black belt into a brown belt by punching him hard in the face. Since and repeat.
Pure sport jiujitsu with no stand-up/takedown game seems like such a travesty!
it is! it's similar to a Judo school that is so focused on throws that their pins and submissions remain weak throughout their training. it's actually sad to me to see that! our school had a wrestling program start but not enough people got interested so Professor stopped it
made me sad cus we had a very skilled wrestler teaching it
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STOPI disagree with jiu jitsu is training with weapons and strikes comment. I am unfamiliar with any form of jiu jitsu that trains with weapons to say offensively like this is how you fight with a spear! and if you add striking you are training mma....
Training for weapons is for defensive purposes. It's part of the curriculum for self-defense. As for striking, punches and kicks are part of jiu jitsu. You cannot enter the clinch in jiu jitsu without understanding striking and distance. That doesn't make it mma at all. If you don't consider the striking element, setting up the takedown is very difficult, specially against another trained individual.
I agree. But there is a difference between 'we are going to throw some type of punch before we clinch' and 'training' to make your striking skillful. to me I don't know of a jiu jitsu class anywhere that would improve a Boxer's striking after he started training there. its a difference I guess between training "with" something and training "to do" something.
It may not be a striking art, but striking is still a huge part of jiu jitsu. Look at combat jiu jitsu in sport, mma, and self-defense. If you don't understand striking, you'll have trouble with the clinch, takedown, opening up submissions, or being swept and losing position. The only place in jiu jitsu striking doesn't apply to is sport jiu jitsu besides cjj. Of course it's not a striking art but you still train it to improve, and cross train.
of course, cross training
BJJ is a sport so saying an argument 'only applies' in sport bjj is kind of odd. that would be like if I said well there are people who use boxing for self defense so saying boxers have no takedown defense is only really true of boxers in 'sport boxing'
mma schools often have training broken down into the individual aspects like striking, wrestling, grappling etc. are there jiu jitsu schools where you can go in and train in purely striking for the class? perhaps there are but I am unaware of them. also are there jiu jitsu people going into striking tournaments with only the striking they learned in a jiu jitsu class?
is there a jiu jitsu tournament anywhere that has striking in it or would that not always be called an mma match?
BJJ first and foremost is self-defense. Yes there is the sport element. And yes there is combate jiu jitsu which allows striking in the sport, and it's not mma. Boxing may not allow takedowns, but there is some clinch work and some basic limited grappling. Muay Thai is very much grappling based in the clinch. Jeet Kune Do has plenty of grappling despite being a striking art. Okinawan Karate is argued that it's origins are actually grappling and not striking.
Wrestling is the only grappling that I know of where striking is not a factor, and even then, I've been hit pretty hard by a wrestler where it may as well been a closed fist.
Rule #1 - Never fight a grappler.
Side Note-Don't try to get in a fight in the first place! Jiu Jitsu can also teach how to fight the mental battle rather than the physical.