Quotes Taken From The Theravada Pali Canon
The idea that the Buddha taught strict vegetarianism in his day does not reflect the original Buddhist teachings. The Buddha did have rules for monks about meat eating, but he did not adopt the strict ‘no meat eating’ that was associated with Jainism in his day. Furthermore, he shows in the teachings that there are more important defilements and unwholesome states of the mind to deal with.
In the Amagandha Sutta in the Suttanipata (verses 239-252), Bhikkhu Bodhi [the famous translator] states that:
“The theme of the discourse is meat-eating, which testifies to a type of criticism that Gotama himself faced during his lifetime. The Buddha did not make vegetarianism compulsory but permitted his monastic disciples to consume meat, on condition that the animal was not killed specifically for them”:
The allowance to eat meat is “pure in three respects” (tikotiparisuddha) in the Buddhist teachings. The details of this can be found at Vin I.238, as well as at MN I.369 [Jivaka Sutta, Majjhima Nikaya Sutta No. 55]:
“In three cases, Jivaka, I say that meat may be eaten: when it has not been [1] seen, [2] heard, or [3] suspected [that the animal was killed for oneself].”
This shows that the Buddha does not require the monks to observe a strict vegetarian diet. It permits them to consume meat when they know that the animal has not been slaughtered especially to provide them with food. Such meat is called tikotiparisuddha, “pure in three aspects,” because it is not seen, heard, or suspected to come from an animal killed specifically for the monk.
There is also textual evidence that the Buddha himself ate meat. This custom provoked sharp criticism from other quarters, particularly the Jains, who insisted on strict vegetarianism. At AN III.49,19–23 the Buddha tells a lay supporter that he will accept a dish of pork (sukaramamsa):
“Bhante, in the presence of the Blessed One I heard and learned this: ‘The giver of what is agreeable gains what is agreeable.’ Bhante, my pork embellished with jujubes is agreeable. Let the Blessed One accept it from me, out of compassion.” The Blessed One accepted, out of compassion.” — AN III.49
The Anguttara Nikaya-atthakatha commentary explains this passage as: “The flesh of a one-year-old pig cooked with spices such as cumin seeds, etc., together with sweet jujube fruits.”
To get back to the Amagandha sutta, the brahmin Tissa accuses the Buddha of eating carrion (amagandha). This word is rendered as “carrion,” but it literally means “raw smell”.
In the Suttanipata verses the Buddha uses his particular way of teaching, in which a term with negative connotations is used and returned as the same to his critic, but this time with a Buddhist meaning attached to it. In this teaching the Buddha re-defines ‘carrion’ (amagandha) so that it does not mean abhorrent food, but immoral actions such as:
“destruction of life, theft, false speech, fraudulence and cheating, resorting to the wives of others” (verse 242) and such defiled mental states as “anger, vanity, obstinacy, recalcitrance, hypocrisy, envy, boastfulness, and haughtiness” (verse 245)
I include the complete Suttanipata verses 241 to 250 to provide the full context of this teaching:
The Buddha Kassapa [answers]:
249.“Neither [avoiding] fish and meat nor fasting,
I will flag comment spam at 1% strength. If you keep on spamming my post I will flag you at 100%. I don't care if you have limited English abilities, write a couple of sentences about this article, no copy-paste please. I will flag: one sentence comments, links to your blog and begging for up-votes and follows. Also I will flag comments that have nothing to do with my blogs article. I will also check your comment section to see if you have been comment spamming on other blogs..
Devadaha Sutta: At Devadaha In this sutta, the Buddha refutes the theories of the Jains — here called the Niganthas — an order of contemplatives flourishing in India during his time. Although on the surface this sutta may seem to be of strictly historical interest, it makes two important points that are very relevant to some common misunderstandings about Buddhism alive today. (Karma, Pain, and Suffering)
A link to My Blog
Misunderstanding the context of the past is one of the biggest errors of our modern society. Its amazing that no one has challenged you yet. Buddha was strictly against dogmas and ignorant adherence to rules. if you meditate without a proper understanding of why then you will not get any benefit from it. Thats what you so nicely pointed out in Buddhas words over and over again, its not the act of putting the meat in your mouth thats bad but everything that went in to getting the meat to your mouth. Buddhas main contribution to spiritual thought at the time was wisdom, don't just do, understand fully what you're doing. He was dealing with rampant dogmatic religions and his teachings are countering that. You have somehow twisted his beautiful teachings to suggest that because Buddha wasn't dogmatic that he somehow didn't have morals. If we actually apply his teachings and not just talk about them and skew them to get a rouse to make yourself some money, you will get there someday.
Buddha said many times killing animals in rituals like the Brahmans did, they were also paid for this..... wouldn't help anyone attain a better place in their next life. I think that is where the "do not kill" came from. Plus he also told stories about killing needlessly and do not murder....Buddha came from the Warrior class and I love his life story as well!
If you read some of the comments on this post the reaction is about the title and the pictures, not the actual teaching. What is worse than eating meat? Reacting with ignorance, hatred, greed, to what you like or dislike! The comment section here is a teaching in itself!
Excellent thoughtful reply, thank you @jaredcordon.
@reddust,
This is one of the major question that we also got and I am personally won't get either side!
There are two reading about this question and I am keeping silence, coz personally I have doubt about my believes!
Cheers~
Just keep your mind pure when you eat that yummy beef steak😜
Well! Shut my mouth! Time to get the Parker Hunter Bow out and go get an elk! You put a lot of work into this post. Quite impressive. I didn't know this at all. May you be filled with equanimity... but not pork.
I prefer elk the the best wild meat....I was given my first rifle at six years old, a little 22 for target practice we never hunted for sport, fished off the pacific coast for salmon too😋 I’m a redneck Buddhist ....
Living on a farm we learned about death up close and personal...no video games and extra lives.
It really is the best meat. If I had my choice I would only eat wild game. I started the "sacred hunt" back in my 20's. Honoring the life that was given to sustain life, etc. I am getting very sensitive to the cruelty we submit animals to that we consume. I don't eat pork any more for that reason. Well...perhaps one day I'll be a vegetarian. Perhaps.
Animals will live a life of birth and death no matter how we treat them. Not eating animals won't save them from preditors. I will not buy animals products from factory farms because factory farms are destorying our enviornment, are cruel to animals and their workers. Plus they are destroying what has supported humans for over 10,000 years our heritage livestock and seeds.
I don't hunt, never have except when I was very young and went hunting with my family, but I can skin and part out any animal, can or freeze their meat...up north there are not a lot of veggies if our food grid system breaks down. Keeping the old ways is important just in case...
I wish you the best on your spiritual journey warrior friend <3
Ditto! Indeed, I've been the warrior. Many times. Blessings.
Humans are omnivores. There are essential vitamins and nutrients that we can't get from any food other than meat. I read an article once of a vegan couple who almost killed their baby by feeding him/her nothing but soy milk. They went to jail for it. Although I have nothing against vegetarianism, be real.
Any mono-diet will have detrimental effects. It wasn't lack of meat that lead to illness, it was mono-soy. There are literally millions of people who have lived their whole lives without eating meat.
All illlness are usually caused by lack of proper nutrition. It has nothing to do with traditional diets, meat, veggies, fruit, what we could grow in our enviornment before factory farming or humanity would be dead by now. People ate from the enviornment they lived in...my people come from the north and our food was primarly meat in the winter and a varied vegertarian and fish based diet in the summers...we did just fine eating that way fro thousands of years @rieki...
This article was actually about the stink of carriorn, non virtuious actions like greed, hatred, ignorance, envy, stealing, ....backbiting, reacting blindly lashing out and hurting people.
Then how are they getting their vitamin B12?
Vitamin B12 comes from bacteria. It's found in natural water, in dirt, on plants (that aren't cleaned). etc. If you foster a healthy gut biome the bacteria in your gut will provide you with enough B12.
Problem is, society is addicted to sanitation and antibacterials that kill these bacteria.
Further, we don't eat dirt or natural flowing water very often.
Our deficiencies are a result of our disconnection from natural cycles and environments.
Not sure I buy that 100%. These days scientists can genetically modify bacteria to produce anything. The problem with going full natural and forgetting all the sanitation is today society now becomes unable to sustain high density ways of living such as cities. Also, nature is not always friendly and unlike sharks and crocodiles, we are not perfectly adapted to our environment. There will be casualties and everything becomes survival of the fittest. By the way, dirt houses the bacteria that causes the black plague.
You don't have to buy it. It's fact by these scientists you speak of.
Dirt houses the foundations for literally all of life. So, naturally it houses "black plague bacteria". The reason this isn't a problem is because there is diversity in the soil that doesn't allow any one bacteria to grow unchecked.
The same holds true for our bodies and our own biome. Diversity is key to thriving.
Speaking of black plaque... It was our
That caused it...
Also, what you have quoted on B12 may be fact but it is a misleading one. This is what I found on a vegan website.
It's not limited to B12. There are 6 more nutrients that we know of that cannot come from plants. Plus, children under a certain age will not have the right gut bacteria to process solid foods or this B12 producer you speak of. Sure, it can also be supplemented by dairy and eggs. But you would need a lot of it.
Yes, everything starts from dirt. But that doesn't change why you must wash your hands after handling it. The moment it enters the body, the environment has changed. Favouring one group over another. The soil may be sporting it just fine and the veggies in it but you simply should not eat dirt.
I'd rather educate everyone so they don't eat dirt rather than split them up so that if someone does eat dirt and dies of bubonic plague, it will be an isolated incident.
The population is huge on Earth. You can't just blame cities for existing. People need to live somewhere and they choose to be with other people. Some are born on islands with no means to relocate. There are also regions on Earth which are not suitable for long term human occupancy. The benefits of being in a city must far outweigh it's drawbacks for enough people to form them.
Humans are like bears, we eat what we can get from the environment we live in...soy is harmful unless fermented and most soy is soaked in glyphosate. Formulas are toxic and full of ingredients babies cannot digest. You can read about this in my last article https://steemit.com/health/@reddust/i-didn-t-know-this
Thank you @bahamutzero and I have nothing against vegans or vegetarians if they are nice to me when I eat my steak...hehehe
Thank you for your support
vegetarians are people who do not eat meat or people who like to eat vegetable vegetables.we do not eat those who have blood like flesh who have their blood should not eat it in the beliefs of vegetarian Buddhists.i like your [email protected] upvote and resteem your post .
Thank you @pengenkaya, the post was about blind reaction to what we don't like or we do like...it really wasn't about eating meat.
So you mean let's eat some more meat? Add some spices and grill it.
Come one over to Oklahoma and we will barbaque some steak for ya ;-)
I am vegetarian and for me, this is a better option.
I am an omnivore, I get sick without iron from animal products.
Great post.
It's a shame that Steemit is increasingly being used to push the Agenda 2030 eugenics propaganda designed to lead to infertility, and promoting veganism is a part of that.
@sift666, this is another series or at least a large article! My first Buddhist teachers never pushed what I should or should not eat...although the Korean monks followed a strict vegetarian diet and so did my Theravada meditation teacher. When I go to retreat I follow a vegan diet as well...My Tibetan teachers come from the high mountains were growing enough grain and vegetables to feed everyone is difficult to say the least, many of their tradition were vegan but most ate meat...
Mao killed millions by shutting down the food grids...that's what happens when systems become centralized...we the common people become dependent on authority and history has shown that is when democide and genocide happens.
Like the article states, there are worse things we can do than eating meat.
Very interesting pointd but i feel we have to try everything to get all the nutrients for our body and you have to have in mind that all in excess is bad so we have to have control about what we do and take in our life. Regards
Depending on where one lives eating animal products may be ones only option...here in the west it is very easy to be a vegan...
But the point is there are worse things than being a meat eater that one can do ;-)
I'll just eat meat. Don't need a help of the great buddha to understand it.
I want his help to enlight me in other ways :O
Eating a special way isn't going to get you enlightened...hahaha :P
Disciplining the mind will bring great rewards...;-)
interesting post👍
Eat what you really need!
Neverending topic. Thank you for your amazing work on this post, gave me deeper understanding and positive feedback to confirm my opinion about healthy eating. Here are my observations:
Eating correctly? My answer on the new Vegetarianism Stack Exchange
#life #health #food #vegetarian #bloodtype
Thanks for this, I learned something new today :)
I knew monks were allowed to eat meat if it's given to them because they can't choose what food to accept from lay people. But the rule that as long as the animal wasn't killed for them also makes sense.
According to Theravada, the Buddha allowed his monks to eat pork, chicken and fish if the monk was aware that the animal was not killed on their behalf.
Not necessarily. The Buddha was not a vegetarian. He did not teach his disciples to be vegetarians and even today, there are many good Buddhists who are not vegetarians
It is true that when you eat meat, you are indirectly and partially responsible for killing a creature but the same is true when you eat vegetables. The farmer has to spray his crop with insecticides and poisons so that the vegetables arrive on your dinner plates without holes in them. And once again, animals have been killed to provide the leather for your belt or handbag, oil for the soap you use and a thousand other products as well. It is impossible to live without, in some way, being indirectly responsible for the death of some other beings, and this is just another example of the First Noble Truth, ordinary existence is suffering and unsatisfactory. When you take the First Precept, you try to avoid being directly responsible for killing beings
hmm very true, & in many respects this is often times overlooked. We rely on so many products which originate from a being in some form that it cannot be held against us... Unless you are harming a being in such a manner which is inhumane shall one be held responsible
Unless you sacrifice animals for a higher rebirth or murder people, that is really bad....as a lay person it is easy to follow sila. But the article is pointing out there are worse things a person can do compared to eating meat.
I loved the article. I think that there are worse things yes, but often eating meat is LINKED with these things. For example, excess consumption, factory farming, waste, destruction of forests etc. So buying and eating meat can be harmful.to ourselves and others. I am not vegetarian rhough I try best to be and am.careful when I do.
Most areas around the world are supplied food through small holdings. Many places on earth cannot grow just vegetables and grain to feed their population. Especially the northern countries and arid countries. It is easy to be a vegetarian if grocery stores are easily acccessible and one has the funds to pay for suppliments needed, there is no way to get heme (digestable Iron) from plants or vitiman Bs...Strict vegans need supplements or they become sick. Vegetarians can eat eggs and other animal products depending on the diet they follow. not getting enough heme, (anemia) for children and women is dangerous, it stunts growth and causes painful menstrual cycles, pregnancy issues, and breast feeding. We cannot absorb plant based iron, it is a fact...
Also if the world stopped eating domestic animals we would lose our hardy heritage livestock put the world in danger of famine if our corporate food grids fail...they are fragile because of their dependency on our energy grids and subject to infectious diseases from the use monoculture, chemicals, and crowding.
anyway, as you said there are far worse things we can do....lying, stealing, greed, murder, consuming more than we need....
Okay so if there is places on earth that cant grow veggies for humans where are the animals getting their food from? like cows who need more food and water than humans, Especially the factory farmed animals which depend on factory farmed vegetables. Because of the monotony of modern diets people have forgotten the abundance of diversity of plant food that grows in all environments, northern and arid.
Cows fill a symbiotic relationship with plants and dirt microbime, as do all grazing animals. They do not eat or take water from other animals and plants. They actually help the enviornment retain moisture through fertlizing the soil , which promotes healthy microbiome that feeds plants, as they graze as all grazing animals do. Ruminits should not be eating grain, it will actually kill them if that's all they eat...Plants are an important part of the human diet. However many cultures that live in deserts and northern climes cannot eat just grass or scrub but animals can. That is why their diet is primarly meat like the Masai and Inuit people...We have a symbiotic relationship with the animals and plants we have domesticated...you have a simplistic view of a world that never existed and you are reacting to a toxic environment I do not want to be apart of just like you.
Thank you for your passionate heartfelt response @jaredcordon, however this post wasn't actually about eating meat. Is about blind reactions to what we do not like or do like ....
I don't agree that we can't absorb plant based iron. My entire family has been vegetarian since 1970's (although I eat meat now) and we never had a problem with iron absorption as Mum always made sure we ate the right foods. i will never forget being fed raw cabbage and capsicum as we were waiting for tea when we were hungry kids, never knowing the reason she did it was so that we were getting enough vitamin C to absorb the plant based iron we did get. However, I acknowledge that in other countries this might be trickier as of course we had access to supplements if we need them, not that we ever did.
Edit, I found my reseearch papers and I will write up an article. I just found out over 2 billion people are iron deficient, a study done by WHO....
Your Mom was right and I was was wrong about iron...nonheme iron is difficult to absorb and I will write a paper on this...
Men don't need that much iron so for you and me, a post menopausal woman getting enough iron is not a big deal!
Ill get the data for you, And also there has never been a pure vegan society...and vitamin c is needed in greater quantities if eating a high carb diet, your Mom was spot on with that...
But there are worse things than disagreeing about diet regarding the articles topic like hating meat eaters or vegans just because of ideology...like telling meat eaters or hunters they are going to Buddhist hell....lololol
I found 3 studies related to gut bacteria microbiome, iron deficiency with pregnant women , and autism...this is going to be a great paper because of you @riverflows and your awesome MOM <3
of course, there are always gonna be worse things-that's just the world we live in. Eating meat, for me, is honestly extremely hard to give up... I have tried but I have not been able to do so for more than a few weeks at a time
When you give up meat be sure to suppliment your B complexes, I have lots of vegan and vegetarian friends that are very healthy but they supplement. You can do it if you want to @conradsuperb <3
You don't need supplements. where do you think animals get their B vitamins? its from drinking natural flowing water and different kinds algae and bacteria. Most nutrients found in meat are in a state that is non digestible. Finland has one of the highest populations of milk consumers while also at the same time having some of the highest levels of calcium deficiency. Just cause the nutrients are there doesn't mean they are bio-available.
thanks for the great advice and support, it has given me that extra push and motivation that I need to make it happen!! You are much appreciated @reddust :-)
You will do it, just think about what we do for the planet!
you will save 1000 gallons of water daily as a vegan, as well as animal lives, C02 imprints, and up to 30 sqf Forest area a day <3
It is so easy to stay vegan, think of the endless suffering animals endure, the Buddha would cry, he would not believe what has happed to this earth..
Remember 50% of humans eats less then optimal while meat wastes 90% of the energy into heat and spews out gases, methane, warming our planet.
90% of the energy is lost, this means 90% less food if we eat meat. We can get 1kg beef or 10kg vegan food from the same area, or probably more then 10kg, since animals have more interactions with the suroundings and much more devastation occures.
Many protein diseases and deaths from cardiac failures are linked to eating sugar and fat continuous. Staying vegan excludes many bad fats and processed foods, at least the way I cook :)
Peace
Yeah, many times people forget about the 'virtual water' that goes into producing foods from animal products... chicken, beef, eggs, you name it (even coffee-which we all love so dearly) takes hundreds and hundreds of gallons to produce for an individual's daily consumption.
I really think there is a lack of education regarding this stuff bc we reallllllly are in a water security crisis, especially in the immensely growing megacities around the world...
I am a very healthy person, and I know the threats which eating meat proposes in the long-term, so Vegan may just be the way to go. Hopefully more and more people hop on board bc it really will do great wonders for the greater good of society :))
See ya around my friend !!
It makes me glad to read some insightful comments from time to time :) yeah water are getting scarce even California and Texas have tasted the shortages by now!
Indeed education is the key here, I am currently trying to get a few posts done on this topic and I must say it hurts to see what we are doing to animals.
Peace friend!
@Travelingwoman, I remember reading something about Kamma/karma, don't look too close or you will go crazy ;-) You know what you are talking about!
Yes off-course I know and its intresting for me to know about The religions of others So i know
And also read from your post that i did not know
You copy and pasted this text from this site A Basic Buddhism Guide: Vegetarianism
https://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda08.htm
Yes I copy and past because i read it from that site and if you think its wrong so no worries because i read and know more about others religions and if you think its wrong to read and underatand others religions then ok but I always read from others site and some time from people no doubt also from your post and itsgood for me that i lear nnew things
Here on steemit because we earn rewards for comments and posts, copy and past is not allowed...a bot may find your copy and paste and if you do this often you will be but on their blacklist, steamcleaners comes to mind. If you cite your copy-paste, leave a link and there will be no problems!
Oh many many thanks for this kind information Next time if i paste from any site then i will also drop a link along with the comment because i am new and i did not know about this but mostly i write my own words but here i read already from that site so i copy and paste next time if i will do iwill also drop a link
Thanks wish you all the best
that's one of our diversity in the world.vegitarian is the one who believe in them not to eat meat.pertanyaan very good friend @reddust.ibam upvote and resteem your post.thank you
Quite an interesting post and rich with useful information. Thanks for sharing.
@reddust you shared a very nice topic. You wrote great information. Four things lead to the right path. Thirst, hunger, loneliness, insomnia. But we should not deficient b12 and other vitamins
For me, I don't think I can cope with eating just only vegetables, though vegetables is highly valuable to our health.
For instance, Everyone can read on the health benefits of water melon on my blog @andymandy01 thank you
Hola @reddust, a mi edad tengo algunas complicaciones de la presion alta , quisiera comer muchas cosas pero no puedo , lo importante es que cuando era joven , disfrute de todo lo que ahora no puedo comer.
Pienso que lo importante no es tanto dejar de comer algo , sino que lo que comamos nos nutra de verdad.
Feliz dia :)
Great one
this is better option
thanks for sharing
Clean mind when you are eating the veal, so you keep your spirit healthy so as not to betray the Buddha ... many things we do not know about it. Especially I love the pork..excellent post .. I support you.
I invite you to visit my profile .. and if it seems to you vote .. Thank you.
Very interesting article. It always fascinates me how current moralities are pasted onto historical figures and philosophies. Reminds me to always look to m own inner sense of values rather than seeking in books, teachings, etc. Thanks for the post.
Although my upvote is small I am happy to share it with you.
I did not know all about this thanks for sharing
Keep sharing
The theme of the discourse is meat-eating, which testifies to a type of criticism that Gotama himself faced during his lifetime. The Buddha did not make vegetarianism compulsory but permitted his monastic disciples to consume meat, on condition that the animal was not killed specifically for them”:
The allowance to eat meat is “pure in three respects” (tikotiparisuddha) in the Buddhist teachings. The details of this can be found at Vin I.238, as well as at MN I.369 [Jivaka Sutta, Majjhima Nikaya Sutta No. 55]:
Please don't copy paste from my article without leaving a couple sentences showing that you actually read my article.
Like this morning, my long post was.up.for 2 seconds and a guy commented 'great post' .
Lol... speed reader?? I think not. How rude!
yeah, little flagging helps our young steemians grow up to be big dolphins or even orcas and whales !
Although Not the whole post but read these Sentences and little bit more from this post