•Jean Vanier
Wow, it's another Friday.
I woke up late today and I feel tired now. Well, not too tired to discuss with you today.
Yes! Last week was cool, we talked about Blockchain gaming on hive. We discussed the different games on the Blockchain, why we love them, and why these games are important to us. If you don't understand, feel free to back track it here Hive-Naija Engagement #8
Some Weeks ago, I thought,I shared and I asked "Why don't we catch cruise every Weekend?"
And you all said...
Well,we won't be the first as there are some weekend engagements trends already on Hive! But this would be THE NIGERIAN VERSION!
So Shall We ?
I will drop a topic every friday(Today's topic is below), share your thoughts on the matter,reply someone else opinion, interrogate the opinion if you like.keep the discussion on. If you don't have anything to say about the topic. Just write a primary school composition about yourself(We go manage am).
Do all these in the comment section, as that it where it all goes down.
There are no rules, hahahaha please banter as you like,speak any language (Igbo,yoruba, pidgin,efik), anything at least someone else can understand.
This week's engagement starts Immediately you see this post and ends on Sunday 11:59pm.
Prizes for this week
Thanks to the @starstrings01 & @crossculture, they helped curate some comments again last week!
@thekittygirl is sponsoring this week with 4.5 HBD. This is her giving us her rewards from the "5 Hive Questions with Samostically series "
Prizes are distributed to the winners after considering their interactions and also their contributions to the topic. This week prizes ;
1st prize - 3.5 HBD + A very good upvote in a selected post of yours in the week!
2nd Prize - 2.5 HBD
3rd Prize - 1.5 HBD
4th Prize - 1 HBD
5th Prize - 1 HBD
Prizes Courtesy of
@samostically (5 HBD + 180 Ecency Points)
@starstrings01 (Upvote and curation)
@thekittygirl (4.5 HBD)
Topic Of Discussion - Pro Choice Or Pro Life
This weekend i feel we should discuss something serious and share our opinions on this. It would be interesting to get your honest opinions on this topic. First I'd like to explain the topic well.
Pro Choice refers to a woman choice of whether to terminate a pregnancy or not while Pro Life is giving the baby the chance to be born
Let's discuss along these questions. It will be nice if you can tag some women from @ladiesofhive to join us in this discussion.
Pro Choice or Pro Life?
Does your religion influence your decisions?
Let Me Start...
It will be interesting to say I'm a fan of Pro choice! My religion doesn't support it but I can't basically stand binging a child to a life of suffering and poverty. Imagine having a child that would be Sickle cell (SS) because of your mistake in ignoring the genotype rules?
I would write more in the comments section anyway.
Let the discussion begin....
@deraaa , @B0s , @merit.ahama , @peaq , @monioluwa , @brightdavid, @stevenson7 , @obrisgold1 , @jaydr @mayorkeys , @wolfofnostreet @readthisplease @young-boss-karin, @tukem1 @k-banti, @iskafan , @chosenfingers @onwugbenuvictor , @monica-ene @heskay @etiboy56 @doziekash , @chincoculbert , @funshee @omosefe @ozohu @attentionneeded @popmanj @estherscott @vickoly @gloriaolar @pianokills @hepziba @tblings-art @anissignature @ijohnsen @manuel6 @khaleesii @kenechukwu97 @abidemiademok21 @otshotz @blezyn @megpeters @philomenob @wildthougts @henrietta27 @megpeters @nkechi
You gave me permission to tag you but you can always tell me to stop anytime!
@nonsowrites, @belemo and @josediccus didn't but I need them here too🙃
If you are new, and you want me to tag you on the engagement posts, please indicate in the comment section.
Personally, religion has nothing to do with my opinion neither should it. Topics like this tend to have gray areas, hence there is never really a perfectly right answer or a perfectly wrong answer albeit should play a major role in decision making.
I guess I'd have to say I'm prolife. I believe it is morally, ethically, spirituality, etc. Wrong to commit abortion. It's basically murder. You've taken someone else's life because you have the power to.
Now here's the complicated part.
A child can be aborted because he/she is SS which in a sense is saving the child's life and future agony for the parent.
A child can be aborted if it is detected that this child would not survive medically and coming to live would only cause more pain. It's basically avoids euthanasia or is sef
ETC
A Child shouldn't be aborted if you had premarital sex and feel you are not ready. It's basically why there's different type of prevention for unwanted pregnancy. Its one of the reasons I personally advocate for sex Only when one is ready, which in most case for me is marriage.
A more reasonable thing to do is to give the child up for adoption so he/she would be taken proper care off
The above is not me given reason for whichever action one is to take. I'm not a clergy and sure as hell not a medical personnel, I'm only giving instances where certain decisions become rational.
I believe I'm humanity. I believe in live and let's live. I believe in Morality.
PRACTICE SAFESEX GODDAMNIT
Okay. Let me give a complicated instance of a woman that was raped and got pregnant. Rule out emergency pills because in these parts, that's not even given thought when things like this happen.
Are you Pro-life in this case? Where the woman is mentally scarred and hates the thought of carrying a child conceived out of a crime.
I can't even begin the life of such a woman. But I have read stories tht these kinds of situations having happy endings though.
Not always
I don cause problem...now I don't understand where @khaleesii's stands
I am pro-choice, I want to be pro life but there are too many gray areas.
Yeah, that's true 😔
FOR ME this is pretty straight forward.
I'M not a rape apologist. I think rape is a terrible offense and rapist should be castrated or punish at least. And on the part of the victim, I can and will never understand thier pain, no do I try to, I can only pray for them and try as much as possible to put out the word against rape and all. I think rape is a gruesome offence and whether we're victims or not we should not be bystanders in raising awareness and protecting women, and everyone in general as much as we can.
One thing I learned and believe is, You can never determine what would happen to you or how people would treat you, you can only control how you react to it.
It was not a child she asked for, but she can love and cherish the child as her own, (which he/she is). She can teach the child to love, instead of heart or bitterness. The child can great bring immense join to the mother eventually.
I am and will always be prolife.
This is just my personal opinion and ideologies of coirse
It's not that straightforward though. Some women want kids, have them, and then don't want them anymore. They suffer post-partum depression and might cause harm to the child.
Now imagine a scarred woman who doesn't even want the child in the first place?
I have come across several true stories of mothers killing their babies, babies Pro-life made them keep. Society will tag it spiritual attack but really, that's just an effect of depression.
This is more common than we see, as we only get to see the successful stories of how the child became a blessing.
He doesn't get it at all, you expect a woman to raise a child that she had maybe 5 men rape her to get.
Like the trauma that comes with it.
I guess he doesn't get my point
Pro-life might be okay morally and all that, but we shouldn't ignore the mental health aspect of it that can be very detrimental to both mother and baby.
Exactly.
I understand being prolife but you can't say a woman who was raped should learn to love a baby born out of trauma.
Its his choice if he doesn't get it. We can't change it.
Yeah we can't.
Just to be clear,
You're saying killing there child for some personal reason is okay?
Also, I think putting up a child for adoption is a thing.
Ofcourse it's not okay, I'm seeing it happens, it's as a result of a mental health condition that shouldn't be overlooked. Women commit suicide too because of it.
Adoption is a thing yeah, but it's not reason enough to carry a pregnancy you really don't want to.
Sometimes you don't want sometimes but you have to make a sacrifice.
In the end, people have the liberty to make thier own decisions and live with it.
Fair point well said.
And even been sickle cell or not, God has a purpose for our life too and I have never regretted been born.
Only out of ignorant would one advocate that a sickle cell pregnancy be aborted as well, another way round it is to teach such child to accept their live and live it best, sick or not.
I have many sick people who have made much more impact better that the so called healthy ones.
And this is on a very light note. 😊
What if I don't believe in God? That's y i added if you are strictly contributing from a religious perspective.
I do believe in God and i believe he has reasons for everything. I also think he would understand aborting a two weeks pregnancy gotten from a rape incident.
It is really interesting to see @wolfofnostreet , @young-boss-karin and @nkechi all being a fan of pro-Choice!
Have you guys got any personal experiences to share? Or any you've heard about?
A friend of mine. She was a religious person until she got into the situation. She was so sad and bitter thinking of how her life will end up cos of that unplanned situation. Her family, her education. She couldn't imagine that she'll have to pause her life despite all the sacrifices the family had made for her.
It was a mistake. One which anyone can make. Pro choice was the only way left for her. In that moment, she forgot all the religious perspectives and went for the Pro choice.
An outsider might get all judgemental about it but Hey.... No one really understands a situation they haven't been through.
A lot of experiences we have in this life and have little or no control over them. So when there's a choice to make, we really shouldn't leave to chance as well especially when it's affecting our life adversely.
"My 13year old SC warrior is pregnant. She has known for few months but didn't tell me and I'm so ashamed and worried as a mother that I did not notice at all. I did not even know she has started seeing her period and I did not ask because I was told that as girls see their period late because of their health status She is so decent and I have never seen her talk to boys. the boy that impregnate her is an Christian in our church staying with his old grand mother He is 17 and my daughter looks like an ten year old even at her age.
Is abortion an option, is pregnancy at her age an option. What can I do. This torture is too much. I beat her so much that I wish the pregnancy will be miscarried but no it didn't. Please help me people. Just a young warrior that falls sick every now and then. What will pregnancy now do to her. I can't eat,sleep or think straight. The girl has tortured me forever".
Sorry I had to re-edit because of posting permission.
Now Here is a typical real life experience.
Forget about the mothers irresponsibility.
The adolescent mother and baby's health is of priority.
We meet with this for counseling..
Pro choice or pro life in this instance?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and the mother here also seeks prochoice, but the adolescent mother has to be involved in the decision making along side medical personal who should monitor the whole process.
At this point, it's tricky because she's minor but it's still her body. However, whatever decision she makes had to be backed by her parents. If she makes a decision that her parents don't morally support then they won't go for it. Let's face it, not many Nigerians are liberal.
I believe that liberal parents will support their child to be pro-choice if that's what she wants. Because let's face it, in a society like ours it's easy for that girl to go ahead and have an abortion without any adult knowing.
She was already having sex without anyone's knowledge so what's now stopping her from terminating it asides from her morals.
The age isn't the issue, because if she can be held down through the entire 9 months then she can be walked through an abortion. Yes, still pro-choice.
Her health condition kind of makes her age an issue in this case especially if she's one who has frequent crisis.
Then is it giving birth that will be easy on her?
In this case abortion is even the BEST option
If it's not too late to get an abortion, I maintain being Pro-choice here. She's so young and an ss warrior for that matter, her body is not ready for the stress about to occur! She already has her crisis to deal with then add pregnancy at that age? Haba
*pro-choice not pro-life
Yeah , edit , thanks....and I'm waiting.... any experience? I feel personally that when it hasn't happened, it easy to conclude or say pro life
Thank you for sharing that. That's a different and valid perspective to this.
And That's because those one understand they have limited time to live unlike the heathy ones.... Cool point.
The last line lol
I think it's the answer to the question in general sef 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Condoms have 98% success rate of preventing unwanted pregnancy and STDs.
People no just day hear word 🤣🤣
Haba, e no dey sweet with condoms nau, @samostically tell him 🤧😏🙃🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️
I don't know these things lol
Hahaha, Linus 😂😂😂
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Please use Durex.
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Iska goan buy and keep 🤣🤣
Also, you've being missing bookchat????? 🌝
But @iskafan you know condoms is protection 🙂😃
I didn't want to laugh but the last line got me 🤣🤣🤣🤣
😅😅😅
Is very very important 🤣🤣🤣🤣
No wahala ooo 😂🥰
You are talking from a man's point of view, not a woman.
Give the child up for adoption? Have you gone to orphanages and seen how many people are actually adopting these children and what they are going through?
I am all for practicing safe sex but until a man gets birth control, y'all aren't on the losing part in this conversation.
I can't speak from a woman's perspective, cos I can never know how it feels or is but I can speak from a moral point of view and I stand strongly by prolife
People who say they speak from a moral perspective always have gray areas in their morals also.
Fair enough
But we all do
Exactly.
It your last line for me
🤣🤣🤣
Pro choice pleaseeee.... it's still blood to me until it takes the first breath of life.
The choice of either bringing someone to this world or not should be totally yours and you should be ready for the responsibilities that come with it. If you let society influence you, you'll probably regret it later. Pro choice always!
What happens if you discover it after it might have taken the first breathe? Do you still choose pro choice here?
Not at all... In that case, you'll literally be committing murder. That's very different.
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There are too many gray areas not to be pro-choice.
Like?
What happens with rape cases, molestation by fathers or uncles, etc.
In these cases, Pro choice is still the better option. Apart from the uncomfortability of dealing with something you didnt plan for, you also have to deal with the emotional trauma these sort of experiences bring. Now why won't one go for pro choice?
Breath ke.. You mean outside or inside..?
Outside of course. At birth.
This is quite a controversial issue.
Having been born and bred in a conservative environment, I also, I'm in total support of the pro-life movement, but I also know that no one has the right to tell anyone what to do with their body.
People should have full autonomy on what they or they don't want.
I won't say abortion is wrong, neither will I call it right. It all depends on a person's perspective and the circumstances surrounding the act.
There are certain cases where abortion can be termed as necessary (even though some will still disagree) and vice versa.
I'm not in support of it, but I'm open minded enough to see why people might want to do it at times.
This topic fit bring fight.
Aswear!!😂😂
But I believe people should be objective enough to listen to other peoples' opinion and disagree accordingly without being aggressive. 😁
Breaking bottle is allowed, just not on anybody's head
I can help supply the bottles if anyone is interested. 😂😂
😂😂😂
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We need more open-minded people like you.
In a nutshell, we don't even know where you stand 🧐🧐
😅 I'm sorry if my stance on the issue might appear a bit confusing.
I'm not in support of the process, but I acknowledge the fact that there are some certain circumstances where it is justifiable.
It totally depends on circumstances a lot of the times and if a child is brought into the earth into the wrong circumstances, they will suffer.
@monioluwa on this one...lol
Boss, you wan order bottle?😂😂
I am team pro life( giving the baby the chance to be born)
Reason being a lot of families are in need of children to care for sick or not..i have been to the fertility clinic before with a family friend and I see the number of people on register trying to get pregnant, hoping to hold a child in their hands so desperately.
So if you find yourself in a situation where the child is not wanted for one reason or the other then think giving out for adoption than abortion..
Just 9months period to grow the child and afterward he/she is off to a better place or better family who would appreciate them.
Medically speaking, a feature isn't exactly considered a can't until 8 weeks at least. Within the first few weeks, all you have is a sac.
But with the way pregnancy appear these days, people barely know they are pregnant imagine finding out almost at the end of their first trimester.i have 3 people I know that had no idea till the baby was born.
in that situation where the baby had formed ,I know there are advance abortion options people would still risk their lives to get all in the name of PROCHIOCE...
There's no way a person who's sexually active won't notice changes in their system within 3 months. Those are very rare cases. I mean 1 in like 100 ladies go though that.
There are many safe methods of abortion. They only become life threatening when things aren't done how they are meant to be done and most times it's the fault of the ladies and not the medical professionals.
Oooh. Its not rare at all. During my antenatal when we had this conversation it was more like a 60% population of people didn't know they were pregnant till about 3-4 months I included.. Trust me it is very common.
Especially when u are not even trying or was positive that you were protected the whole time.
I strongly believe there are little signs that people just ignite and move on. Those minor cramps during the first week are so minor they can be ignored. I honestly don't think it can be completely hidden.
However, I can't say because I haven't been there.
I read so many testimonials about this and I was so weirded out. You'd just wake up one morning and next thing you know you're having a baby you didn't know was there all along. God abeg o
Ooh it happens a lot, I always fight people about it till my roommate gave birth in school from a stomach ache @readthisplease and @onwugbenuvictor should know this cause we attended uni together.
It was shocking to everyone, someone Who went swimming with bikinis no obvious bump gave births days after...
So yh it happens
There is something called cryptic pregnancy.
It does happen. But like you said.. A small ratio.
Wow, this is really deep and I understand you quite well.
Unless, women are properly educated in this manner, it's still a difficult world for them. I guess what we need is to thoroughly create awareness for women all over the world. It boils down to what I always say "understanding helps us make better decisions".
And those families should adopt, someone aborting a child doesn't concern the families that aren't having children, not to be mean but you get.
I get you
Yeah.
Well in answer to your option.
Pro choice can be considered if its mistake done out of ignorance.
But come to think of it, some people like to take chances.
Imagine hearing something like
" let me get pregnant first if the baby is SS I terminate if otherwise I keep".
This is not right at all as there are better ways to avoid such.
Have had a first hand witness of some one who tried checking the baby's genotype and a healthy AA boy child was unknowingly terminated in the process.
The process for checking the genotype of a baby during pregnancy terminates a good percentage of unborn children.
Its better to completely avoid situations where we have to make the Prochoice option
As for me, I support the pro life option, that is giving the child a chance to live. Abortion whether intentional or not is considerable when you are pregnant. Even considering the dangers involved, one shouldn't dare.
These days there are readily available childcare/daycare for working class mothers, funny but true there are states/Ngo support... This is True because I worked with an Ngo in affiliation with the ministry of youth and social development, Lagos where there is an initiative called child care support, here parents bring in their children for a speculated period of time because of financial inconvenience, mothers, after giving birth register their child/children at orphanages and they visit at stipulated time.
More so, if you knew you didn't want to placed in the difficult situation of choice, one would critically put in place measures to prevent such occurrences. I mean there are several means these days such as postpills, iud, family planning and so on.
Well yes, my religion is also a determining factor because as a practicing catholic the teachings of the church oppose all forms of abortion procedure because it holds that human life must be respected and protected from the moment of conception.
Even though some might consider the ignorance of parents whose genotype are incompatible because they have to flush out several pregnancies until they get a matching AS or AA baby. In this 21st century why take such risk at first, the trauma for the woman involved is unbearable.
So, generally you have every reason to give that child a chance to live with no excuses... Thank you.
first, even without the existence of religion taking a life should not sound normal.
there are conditions one finds himself and would have no other reason but to take a bad decision( at that moment the bad decision becomes the right thing at that time) the bad decision becomes pro choice whereby the situation at hand makes a person choose pro choice.
most times pro choice comes as a solution when the situation at hand becomes a ugly one.
It should be normal for one to choose pro life but pro choice is considered mostly when there is a problem at hand these problems can be unwanted pregnancy, results from extra marital affairs or having an affair with a person you have no plan of having children with.
so i will conclude that situations determine but pro life should be the norm.
Please I'm new here and I am interested, do pls tag me for the next post...
Ahh this topic is quite hard and since I'm Still a child I'll not put too much mouth in this one, let me come and see mummy and daddy talking life and let Me learn...
As a Christian, I should be pro-life because well, I don't think any life should be terminated and I have seen a trend of people not being careful enough because they know that they have the option to terminate a pregnancy but as a human, I am pro-choice because well first of we were given choices as Christians and this is a choice.
There are also so many cases where a child cannot be kept; a disorder/sickness, a married couple who has 7 kids and can't afford another, a rape case, and many more and I don't think a child should suffer or a parent should be forced to keep a child.
Minus the psychological effects that could come to play, a child should be raised in love and that might not be possible in certain cases.
I'm pro-choice all the way. Everyone screams pro-life until they reach that crossroad and they make that choice that no one hears about.
Exactly, I do believe that people can be more careful in general but if it does happen, it's their choice and not anyone else's.
Sometimes, these preventive measures fail. That's why they are never 100% certain.
I know they fail but I have seen girls on TikTok brag about having the option to terminate a pregnancy so they don't have to be careful.
Well, they aren't wrong. I was made to understand that regular abortions cause a web-like growth that reduces the chances of future pregnancies.
😆 well I hope that is true
The web be like web-20
Its truth.
They are called adhesions, especially when na backyard them do am.
I've been in conversations with two different girls that run abortions like it's nothing. And personally I feel happy for the unborn kids because I consider these girls unfit to be mums with how reckless they are at this point of their lives.
Yeah, I understand this but it's recklessness in general.
Yes, it's the last part for me, by this age, we should all understand that children are so innocent and lovely, that they ought to be raised in love . 🥺💞
Exactly, so if you can't give them that then you shouldn't have it.
I completely agree. 💯
I'm Pro-choice all the way because being pro-life is not considering the life of the woman or even the guy involved. All lives matter yeah? So why are we being partial in whose we care about. How about their mental health and the task of taking care of a human life for the rest of their life? Not everyone is cut out for that.
And no, don't talk about adoption, there are many kids in the orphanages yet to be adopted so we really don't need more to be born.
My dear, the human who takes all the burden is often the woman in my country... Chai.... 😔
There are too many situations that warrant terminating a pregnancy, I am not saying people shouldn't practice safe sex but if the parents aren't ready then the child is coming to this world to suffer, period.
And for my own choice.
I think every baby deserves to live a life, Wether sick or healthy
There are several ways one can avoid getting pregnant if you don't want to bring a life into the world depending on the circumstances you find yourself. And some would rather opt for adoption if they feel having a child would mean to bring a sick one to suffer.
Sickle cell is predictable before marriage or childbirth, but what about Autism, down syndrome and other disabilities like that, and a situation where one is not buoyant to even do a test to know if the baby is totally healthy.
A sick child is born eventually and we have to accept our fate and take care of the baby... Or would one opt for "mercy killing' when a proc choice option wasn't possible...
The word Mercy Killing, I first read this as a child in my integrated science, and when I did I supported it.
These things and decisions are really hard.
And I so wished we don't fall in tight corners
I swear, reality hits differently🤦
Right now, I just woke up from sick bed and found this notification. Someone should not try me. As it stands I am looking for a baby. If you know someone who has a good gene and doesn't want her child, tell me to meet me, I'll adopt the child. 😂😂
Forget my laughing emoji, I am looking for short cut, so I don't have to be the one carrying the pregnancy 😅😅🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️
Go to orphanages my sister, you will see plenty 😆
Hahaha, you are looking for my trouble 😂😂😂
I am not oh.
By this time next week you go carry belle... 😂😂😂😂
Na lie oooo, this year I dey do celibacy 😂😂😂😂
This topic has is personal to me for some reason.
If it's not too personal, I'd like to hear. Perhaps we could gain more insight on the topic.
I'm pro-abortion. If the pregnancy comes when a lady doesn't want it, she should have the right to terminate it. It should be the lady's decision. It's her body and she'll bear the consequences of whatever choice she makes more than the guy will.
The world is already overpopulated as it is. Why bring more kids into it with no proper plan?
I'll totally respect it if a woman decides to go ahead and have an abortion. It won't change my opinion about her. I'll still hold her with the same esteem I did prior to her decision.
That's why condoms and contraceptives exist...
But then, mistakes do happen and they can happen to anybody, so...
I respect your decision and also understand why you're in support of it, but I still don't think abortion is totally right..
It's just the world part of the world we're in and the makeshift morals that's been forced into most of us. It's legal in many places because they understand that the hazards of having a child you weren't ready for are more than having the child.
Abortion is just as controversial in Nigeria as it is in some other developed countries.
Even in countries where abortion is legal, there are certain conditions that are attached to it. Chile, for example, will not allow abortion unless the woman's life is in danger. Any other thing apart from that is considered illegal.
I admit that my stance on the issue is partly due to my upbringing. My opinion might change in the future. But until then, I'll continue to convince and confuse, while being in support of the motion which states that "pro-life is better than pro-choice"
😆 it's not a debate. It's a respectable personal choice. And it's understandable. Abortion sometimes comes with some regret.
There are pros and cons either way.
If the doctor is saying, pro-choice, who I'm I to say no...... Wait, @young-boss-karin, you're a doctor right? Before I blab nonsense 😂😂😂
😆 I'm not a doctor but I've had this conversation with many of them due to some experiences I've had.
Due to the oath they were made to take, the majority of them don't come out in public to say it but they usually don't support it due to what they see in hospitals.
People have no money but just because they are pro-life they have these kids they can't take care of.
Next thing you know, one low life is out there trying to steal my phone when he shouldn't have even been born if his mother wasn't so stuck on being "pro-life"
Hehehehe..... It's the last part for me. Hunger makes people do a lot of things and commit certain crimes they wouldn't do if circumstances were different. And now, we have to blame their parents for not thinking everything through.
I don't even want to talk about the ones who get married to a man with many wives and children on ground, I often wondered what exactly is wrong with their medulla oblongata 😔
The world is just a tricky place, really. Every action has a consequence.
Wao this is interesting @samostically
Eiiiiiii
This week topic is deep
I'm here to learn
I feel situation will be the best to determine if it should be pro life or pro choice.
Yes this is the best answer..situation differs..
Exactly
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STOPCheck out the last post from @hivebuzz:
Let me tag guys here.
@bbjmed, @koriedr @bhoa @ebingo you people should come and see Ooo